Mindless Rant About Bangkok

[RaoulDuke]

I have been in Thailand for over 7 weeks, and for the most part, I love it. But there are three things I have noticed that are increasingly getting on my nerves, especially tonight, since I was in a bad mood already.

For one thing, I never thought I would find a group of people more oblivious to the world around them than americans, but Thais definitely take the cake. Many of them just seem to be completely absent minded, maybe it is just that they are way too laid back. I swear, I cannot walk around a shopping mall, store, sidewalk for more than 5 minutes before someone walking in front of me just comes to a dead stop, for no reason other than that they don't seem to know where they want to go, and often they are even in small groups when they do this, meaning they completely block of whatever path they are on. And it seems like this almost always seems to happen while walking through a doorway, or entering an escalator. Now, I can give a pass, when some farang like myself does this, because I really don't know my way around these places, nor would I be expected to. But the people doing it are locals who have undoubtably been in this same place hundreds of times before. They never seem to realize that there is a person behind them who is trying to go somewhere.

Another thing is the employees in the store. I don't know if it is some program by the government to fight unemployment, but it seems like every store I have gone to has 3-4 times more employees than they need, and many of them are just standing in the middle of an aisle, often blocking the aisle, not attempting to help anyone or do anything productive. It is annoying when you cannot look for the item you are shopping for because an employee is blocking the shelf or aisle. Also, many times I cannot even look for what I want to buy without 3-4 employees following me around. i appreciate them trying to help, but I don't need 3 people to help me pick out a towel or bottle of shampoo.

The third and final problem I have is the BTS. As a frequent visitor to Disneyland, I always joke about how pathetic the monorail there is, since it is way too slow in inefficient to ever be used as public transport. I never in a million years imagined that a city the size of BKK would actually have a rail system that is even slower and more annoying than the disney monorail. The point of electric trains is that they can reach a high speed in a short time, and decelerate just as quickly. I understand that it has some curves to negotiate, and there are some points where the 2 tracks become one, but I have a hard time believing that the train could not go faster than it does. We came to a dead stop for well over a minute twice, in a span of 3 stations, the first of which wasn't even at a point where the tracks merge. The second was a merge point, but a full 45 seconds passed between the other train passing, and us finally pulling into the station. It just seems like whoever designed it had no idea what they were doing, and whoever is responsible for the scheduling and syncronizing of trains is just not showing up to work. I have been to countless cities all over the world, and I have taken mass transit in them all, but this seems to be the worst of them all. Even the Blue line from Long Beach to Los Angeles is a step up from the BTS. The routes are great and the stations are nice (escalators would be nice, but I know this is a relatively poor country), I just wish it wasn't so agonizingly slow.

Edited October 11, 2010 by RaoulDuke

[metisdead]

Get used to it, This Is Thailand afterall.

(Oh, and you should have put a capital A on the nationality you described in the first sentence of your second paragraph).

As to your third problem: The BTS; despite that you think it is slow, this BTS is a drastic improvement over the public transport system. You should have been here before it was implemented.

Edited October 11, 2010 by metisdead

[trogers]

Get used to it, This Is Thailand afterall.

(Oh, and you should have put a capital A on the nationality you described in the first sentence of your second paragraph).

As to your third problem: The BTS; despite that you think it is slow, this BTS is a drastic improvement over the public transport system. You should have been here before it was implemented.

Yup. Back in the early 80s when I first came here, I was surprised by the taxi driver who turned off the car's ignition at the traffic lights, got out a feather duster and started cleaning the outside of his taxi. Took him over 10 mins, before he got back into his seat, and the lights were still red...

Edited October 11, 2010 by trogers

[Capealava]

Another USA basherComparing American to a Thai is way off the Mark. Seems you have been to Disneyland a few times however

[MSingh]

Hahaha TV cracks me up..

Ok, number 1, yep they may well be locals ( or maybe not ) but that doesn't mean they have been wherevery you were, lots of times & may be, just like you were or other Foreigners, a bit unsure of where they were going..

However, i have never bumped into so many people, or had so many people cross my part " wrongly " as i do here, it's not coincidental either as it's been happening for 7 Years now..

& by wrongly i mean, in the West, there seems to be a simple thing in the majority where you dont' cross people's path's & are aware of what route they're taking in walking & attenot to avoid walking in " their space ", kind of like a code of conduct i guess..

I think it's a basic lack of awareness here, you see it in the Driving too, well i see it in the Driving daily..

It seems that the awareness factor isn't the same in these people as other people, that's just an observation & probably what it really is as it happens quite simply too much ( instances with a lack of awareness ) for it to be coincidental..

Number 2 is accross the whole Country, 99% of Employee's, in the bigger Stroes anyway, are bordering on useless even to Thai people..

Number 3 ) I disagree big time, i'm from London & have used the Underground system there since i was young, also used teh L in Chicago for a couple of Years & i give the BTS a big thumbs up to be honest..

[richard_smith237]

I don't agree with the second two points and will always park at Emporium and use the sky train if heading to Paragon, simply because its easier to take the BTS than driver there and back. The sky train is as good as many other cities I go to - It perhaps needs more than 3 carriages per car though.

Shops: A lot of them have staff employed by specific brands.

Spatial Awareness: I agree, it definately appears that there is something in the Subconscious over here where there is no respect or concept of spatial awareness, either that or there is a subconscious urge not yet dealt with by the teaching of manners to 'get in front' hence when walking across your path someone will nearly always step out in front of you rather than step out behind you.

[Vertigotogo]

Take a long, long look in the mirror and ask yourself who has the right perspective, you or several thousand Thai people.

Sincerely, I know from my experience of living in different countries, if you don't relax and allow this (simple) stuff to wash over you without it upsetting you, it won't be long before you start going completely mad. Learn to genuinely smile at these situations and your ex-pat life will be much more relaxed and enjoyable...... trust me on this one.

[PhilHarries]

Your first point is an Asian thing not just Thai. Drivers in KL must get a real surprise when they get someplace because none of them have a cookin' flue where they are going. They'll just decide to turn at the last instant when they are passing a junction. Or they'll stop in the middle of the road while they read the signs and their map or whatever. People here in HCMC are in a total vacuum, they are the only beings on the planet and never consider that somebody else might be inconvenienced by their actions, or lack of. The motorcyclists are the worst, they start the bike up and drive off without any glance around them to check if it clear to move off.

As for the numbers of inactive staff in stores, you are better off that they do ignore you as by and large they haven't the faintest idea of what the store sells or where it might be located.

I can't comment on the BTS as I've never ridden it but have wasted large chunks of my life sat in Bangkok taxis watching the grass grow.

An essential aid to maintaining your sanity in south east Asia is a sense of humour.

[givenall]

Get used to it, This Is Thailand afterall.

(Oh, and you should have put a capital A on the nationality you described in the first sentence of your second paragraph).

As to your third problem: The BTS; despite that you think it is slow, this BTS is a drastic improvement over the public transport system. You should have been here before it was implemented.

Don’t worry as they said in seven years Bkk will be under water and we all will go home or someplace else

[thomo]

Your first 7 weeks in Thailand spent in Bangkok?

Jeepers.

[CNXSTEVE]

The Mindless part of the topic title is about right. Why travel if you want it to be the same as where you came from?

[Bangkokhatter]

i think the BTS is ok, but wish they would get on and open the stations past on-nut , as for the Thais spacial awareness, what about the times they just stop in front of doorways and travelators and answer their phones

[niveknedwob]

S E V E N W E E K S

This guy is an absolute joke ... obviously p1$$ed enough with his BKK experience to take the time to sit down and write to us though ... much appreciated.

[onnut]

To the OP, please do yourself a big favor and never, ever attempt to drive in Bangkok.

The way they walk, well, they drive like that as well!

[metisdead]

To the OP, please do yourself a big favor and never, ever attempt to drive in Bangkok.

The way they walk, well, they drive like that as well!

Yep, ain't that the truth! He hasn't seen anything yet!

[niveknedwob]

The more you look at it this has got to be a TAT attempt at a subtle survey - the tourists are on their way back so what is wrong here that might detract from their "feel good" experience.

The comparisons with Disneyland, etc, are obvious ... but the inclusion of observations of human behaviour are way above usual TAT data gathering tactics. Have they employed a 'specialist' ?

[Englander]

The Mindless part of the topic title is about right. Why travel if you want it to be the same as where you came from?

He's come to 21st Century Central BKK, whilst not exactly the same its certainly very similar to all major cities, and he's right about the walking or dithering as it should be called.

[Damacles]

We've all got our pet hates wherever we are; if that's all you have its not too bad! Sounds like you still need to develop your 'go with the flow' attitude - if you don't and are staying you're going to get heated up over trivia that's not going to go away, which is pointless. Sounding off's ok, but you're going to have to reconcile with it - its a different mentality and cultural approach, and as PhilHarries says its Asia not just Thailand.

Personally, I think the trains are a joy compared to London - try commuting on those *astards every day and you'll soon stop being negative about BKK! Air conditioning? If only! As someone else said, you should have been about when it didnt exist, you'd soon have seen the improvement.

Like I said, we've all got our pet hates - I developed a serious one about Police checkpoints last time I stayed. After 15 years of visiting I met Police face to face for the first time and EVERY single day I was stopped in a taxi for a pointless inconsistent check - no complaints about their attitude and approach its just annoying and unnerving. I ended up not wanting to go out for a drink as you never quite know what's going to happen until finally I just left the city and went somewhere else. But its Thailand and I, like everyone else, must learn to roll with it....

Reason for edit: I put a wrong word in and Im nervous of the Grammar Police here *cough*

Edited October 11, 2010 by Damacles

[kennalder]

I don't agree with the second two points and will always park at Emporium and use the sky train if heading to Paragon, simply because its easier to take the BTS than driver there and back. The sky train is as good as many other cities I go to - It perhaps needs more than 3 carriages per car though.

Shops: A lot of them have staff employed by specific brands.

Spatial Awareness: I agree, it definately appears that there is something in the Subconscious over here where there is no respect or concept of spatial awareness, either that or there is a subconscious urge not yet dealt with by the teaching of manners to 'get in front' hence when walking across your path someone will nearly always step out in front of you rather than step out behind you.

I agree totally with the spacial awareness and lack of manners concept. I played golf yesterday, with one other golfer, meaning four people in the group. Walking away from greens or even down the fairway, I had to change my gait at least 3 times to accomodate a caddie, that out of nowhere decided to change directions. Rather than wait for me to keep going in a straight line, she chose to cut in front of me. Couldn't possibly be in a hurry as she can't go anywhere until the next shot is played. It happens every time out so I get used to it and realize I have to think for them as well as myself.

[powderpuff]

How about a family of 6 or 8 who need to walk abreast in a shopping mall? I love that one.

BTS is run by a computer. It would not be unusual for the train to stop for no reason to maintain safe spacing. Something way beyond your ability to comprehend.

How many sets of cars at Disney? Do they all run in one direction?

Edited October 11, 2010 by powderpuff

[jybkk]

About the first point, it is something I also remarked. I think it is related to the fact the Thai etiquette says that you "don't make problems" i.e. you don't tell the people to get out of the way even if they are really annoyingly blocking it. In the end, it doesn't come up naturally to think about "do I block the path"? However, I can tell this is slowly changing. I see people keeping right on the escalator, walking faster, standing on the side. Mostly during rush hours. I'd give it a few years and it should be fine.

For your second point, yes, it is annoying. I think these kind of "low activity-low wage" jobs are the local way to handle unemployment.

As many others, I will disagree with you for the third point. I take the BTS daily and it is reliable, comfortable and fast. But... the difference might be that I take Sukhumvit line. Silom line is very different since they opened the extension across the river. Some genius thought that it would be okay to have only one track accross the bridge (long term planning anyone?) and it causes a lot of scheduling/crossing problems. They announced new 4 carriages trains for the end of the year. (Understand some time in 2011). This should help.

To me, those are minor inconveniences. If there was one thing I had to change about Bangkok would be to ban all megaphones, PA systems and whistles. They are mind numbingly deafening, and absolutely useless. Ask a thai what was the lady advertising with her loudspeakers after you passed it and they will say "I don't know, I didn't listen".

Edited October 12, 2010 by jybkk

[smokie36]

Hahaha TV cracks me up..

Ok, number 1, yep they may well be locals ( or maybe not ) but that doesn't mean they have been wherevery you were, lots of times & may be, just like you were or other Foreigners, a bit unsure of where they were going..

However, i have never bumped into so many people, or had so many people cross my part " wrongly " as i do here, it's not coincidental either as it's been happening for 7 Years now..

& by wrongly i mean, in the West, there seems to be a simple thing in the majority where you dont' cross people's path's & are aware of what route they're taking in walking & attenot to avoid walking in " their space ", kind of like a code of conduct i guess..

I think it's a basic lack of awareness here, you see it in the Driving too, well i see it in the Driving daily..

It seems that the awareness factor isn't the same in these people as other people, that's just an observation & probably what it really is as it happens quite simply too much ( instances with a lack of awareness ) for it to be coincidental..

Number 2 is accross the whole Country, 99% of Employee's, in the bigger Stroes anyway, are bordering on useless even to Thai people..

Number 3 ) I disagree big time, i'm from London & have used the Underground system there since i was young, also used teh L in Chicago for a couple of Years & i give the BTS a big thumbs up to be honest..

The OP has us all laughing......I guess he's never spent an hour underneath Oval tube station in mid summer with no aircon or water. The BTS is well run and efficient. I can only assume he's got city fever and needs a long trip to a remote island hideaway.

Just sit on the beach and stare into space for a week OP ya know it makes sense.

[w11guy]

I don't agree with the second two points and will always park at Emporium and use the sky train if heading to Paragon, simply because its easier to take the BTS than driver there and back. The sky train is as good as many other cities I go to - It perhaps needs more than 3 carriages per car though.

An extra carriage is being added very soon. I think they have already been ordered.

After using the underground in London and the subway in NYC, I don't see any problem at all with the BTS. It is clean and efficient. I don't find it slow at all. Maybe the OP is in too much of a hurry and needs to slow down.

Definitely agree with point 2 though. In my local supermarket there are employees in every aisle. Usually just chatting and blocking the aisle. Or maybe having a rest. In my local True cafe there are usually 3 or 4 customers and about 5 staff. If I order a cup of tea, one person takes the money one gets the cup, one gets the water and another puts it on the tray. In same stores, such as Paragon, I hate looking for thins because the staff just follow me around asking what I want. They can't understand that I'm just browsing and I will let them know when I want to buy something.

[trogers]

Definitely agree with point 2 though. In my local supermarket there are employees in every aisle. Usually just chatting and blocking the aisle. Or maybe having a rest. In my local True cafe there are usually 3 or 4 customers and about 5 staff. If I order a cup of tea, one person takes the money one gets the cup, one gets the water and another puts it on the tray. In same stores, such as Paragon, I hate looking for thins because the staff just follow me around asking what I want. They can't understand that I'm just browsing and I will let them know when I want to buy something.

Being over staffed is not limited to Bangkok. It is nationwide, and covers most trades.

I remember a Thai subcontractor pouring mass concrete of a foundation in Pattaya in the early 90s. He employed two teams of 12 men each. One team worked and the other team sat by the side of the excavation. After an hour the teams switched positions. Total time taken for the job was about 6 hours.

This kind of work is regularly done in Singapore with only a team of 12 Thai workers. You can conclude that such behaviour is not due to physical restraints, but something habitual and cultural.

[sbk]

Hon, you can beat your head against the brick wall but it won't hurt the brick wall any and all its gonna do is give you a headache.

You need to get out of Bangkok and relax a tad. This is the way it is, learn to accept it or move on. But don't give yourself a coronary over it.

[carmine]

If these are the biggest gripes to be had in Bangkok it must be a fantastic city to live in.

Suggest the OP tries some Tai Chi and yoga to chill out.

[smokie36]

If these are the biggest gripes to be had in Bangkok it must be a fantastic city to live in.

Suggest the OP tries some Tai Chi and yoga to chill out.

Just wait till he wants a Krispy Kreme doughnut!

[Chopper71]

Jai yen yen... Bangkok is a great city, it's like no other place on earth. If you can't appreciate the city of Angels then you could always bugger off to a sterile Western city back home where people are miserable, you pay £4 for a single tube journey and if you smile a lot people will assume you're straight out of the looney bin..

Embrace the differences, that's what travel is all about. Get down to Lumpini and do some Yoga, run the park, visit a temple, read Bangkok Days and suck in the marrow of life... Or just bugger off back to where you came from and stop moaning..

[MrJohnson]

Get used to it, This Is Thailand afterall.

(Oh, and you should have put a capital A on the nationality you described in the first sentence of your second paragraph).

As to your third problem: The BTS; despite that you think it is slow, this BTS is a drastic improvement over the public transport system. You should have been here before it was implemented.

Yup. Back in the early 80s when I first came here, I was surprised by the taxi driver who turned off the car's ignition at the traffic lights, got out a feather duster and started cleaning the outside of his taxi. Took him over 10 mins, before he got back into his seat, and the lights were still red...

I had a taxi driver did an oil change, removed and cleaned the spark plugs and topped up the radiator - he still had time to smoke a fag, polish his flip flops and write a short letter to his mother in Surin - then the lights changed and he still had time to wander over and post the letter before the queue of cars ahead of us moved sufficiently for us to get going. Truly. Really. The traffic was bad back then. The BTS is great. It is clean and cool and arrives every few minutes. So what's the problem?

[rijb]

The Mindless part of the topic title is about right. Why travel if you want it to be the same as where you came from?

Mindless and sheltered. Op needs to visit a few countries off the beaten path - might give him a different perspective.