Thaksin To Return To Thailand If Pheu Thai Wins

[sarahsbloke]

As I said, not our business.

Supposing that your wife lived with you in your home country for x number of years and after expressing an opinion on the political situation in your country, someone dismissed it as being unimportant as she is Thai and as such it is not her business. Would you not be inclined to tell that person that your wife had every right to an opinion as she had been living and working there for so long and had her family to care for and consider? I would. I'd also tell them where to go.

And if you're lucky enough to have married someone who loves you and values your opinion, she would react in the exact same way were the situations reversed.

Just because you might not have the same legal standing here that your wife would in your country, doesn't mean you have to switch your brain off and tell yourself that your opinion doesn't matter.

If my wife had been living in the UK for 2 years, she would be well on her way to citizenship, residency and be able to buy her own house and land.

If I were able to have the same rights here I would be very happy, as things are, I and every other foreigner living here, could be told to leave tomorrow.

Thailand is a land of fantasy, one of the biggest fantasy thoughts being that a white person has any rights while visiting this country.

[jayjay0]

As I said, not our business.

Supposing that your wife lived with you in your home country for x number of years and after expressing an opinion on the political situation in your country, someone dismissed it as being unimportant as she is Thai and as such it is not her business. Would you not be inclined to tell that person that your wife had every right to an opinion as she had been living and working there for so long and had her family to care for and consider? I would. I'd also tell them where to go.

And if you're lucky enough to have married someone who loves you and values your opinion, she would react in the exact same way were the situations reversed.

Just because you might not have the same legal standing here that your wife would in your country, doesn't mean you have to switch your brain off and tell yourself that your opinion doesn't matter.

If my wife had been living in the UK for 2 years, she would be well on her way to citizenship, residency and be able to buy her own house and land.

If I were able to have the same rights here I would be very happy, as things are, I and every other foreigner living here, could be told to leave tomorrow.

Thailand is a land of fantasy, one of the biggest fantasy thoughts being that a white person has any rights while visiting this country.

You yourself could do the same It is your choice to not take out citizenship. I have a friend who is English he had to go through several hoops just to take his wife back for a visit. Your wife has to do nothing to bring you here. Personaly coming from North America it makes me sick to see what they put the Thai's through to come and visit.

In your defense I have to agree with you in the finale Analiese's it is none of our business. But that in no way means I can not care and voice my opinions. My wife ignores me she tells me I am not Thai. She is clever how ever she is not polarized in her political thinking and willing to listen to all sides provided they make sense. And Thaksin makes no sense. She listened and then she watched and figured that he was not for Thailand so she no longer listens to him and his stooges.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

So in my professional opinion the picture has been shopped.

Does your professional opinion extend to explaining how it could possibly matter? I did not insert the image as evidence in a criminal trial. I was making a point about the Army defending the city.

Unless you're claiming that there was no weapons, and that there was nothing to defend, I don't understand your seemingly illogical and irrelevant claims (aside from, perhaps, the diversionary nature of them).

My wife and the other villagers do care, they live here and they love Thaksin.

Does it matter what he did?, not really, what matters is what they believe he did!

No, it doesn't matter what actually happened or who anyone actually is.

All that matters is beliefs.

See you at the Town Square. We're going to burn a witch! It'll be a blast. Bring the kids!

I struggle to understand you're not caring what happens in a country with family members residing in it.

It's easier to understand your relations staunch support of Thaksin as I initially encountered that with my relations here as well. All 11 members voted for Thaksin in his first election and I struggled to get them to understand his gross manipulations. After many discussions and evidence-producing, it eventually paid off, albeit in a small way

I have a similar story with my friend's wife who is clearly very bright yet (was) an avid Thaksin supporter. My buddy couldn't be less interested in politics (regardless of country). But after hearing his wife express support for Thaksin endlessly, one day I tried to understand why. It was the same old story "Thaksin did this, he did that" - when I showed her evidence that Abhisit was doing more, she was stunned. She literally had no idea. She was already either neutral or leaning towards Abhisit by the time of the riots in April. She knew how many kids were mixed up in the mess.

I have to tone her anti-Thaksin rhetoric down at times now.

[rixalex]

Thailand is a land of fantasy, one of the biggest fantasy thoughts being that a white person has any rights while visiting this country.

The argument isn't to do with what legal rights we have or don't have in Thailand, it's to do with having a right to an opinion. You believe you don't have one. Fine. Up to you.

And as has already been stated, tourists who come here on tourist visas are visiting.

[Lumumba]

Thailand is a land of fantasy, one of the biggest fantasy thoughts being that a white person has any rights while visiting this country.

The argument isn't to do with what legal rights we have or don't have in Thailand, it's to do with having a right to an opinion. You believe you don't have one. Fine. Up to you.

And as has already been stated, tourists who come here on tourist visas are visiting.

One word comes to mind on opinions people latch onto irrespective of overwhelming logic. Solipsistic.

If you are a passenger in a bus and the driver is running all the bikes and smaller vehicles off the road and going through every speed bump and zebra crossings at 100Km/H, would you still say I am just a passenger or the bus does not belong to me?

[rixalex]

Thailand is a land of fantasy, one of the biggest fantasy thoughts being that a white person has any rights while visiting this country.

The argument isn't to do with what legal rights we have or don't have in Thailand, it's to do with having a right to an opinion. You believe you don't have one. Fine. Up to you.

And as has already been stated, tourists who come here on tourist visas are visiting.

One word comes to mind on opinions people latch onto irrespective of overwhelming logic. Solipsistic.

If you are a passenger in a bus and the driver is running all the bikes and smaller vehicles off the road and going through every speed bump and zebra crossings at 100Km/H, would you still say I am just a passenger or the bus does not belong to me?

I can understand that analogy very well as i was on that bus last week.

[scorecard]

Thaksin had all the village drug dealers shot, he saved me, Thaksin is a wonderful man.

Are you being sarcastic?

Assuming that you are not, are you aware of what kind of people you are hoping will lead the country? e.g. Do you know about Chalerm and his sons?

What do you think of Jatuporn Prompan? An honorable man?

I don't care who leads the country, not my country, not my business, I'm only visiting (same as you).

My wife and the other villagers do care, they live here and they love Thaksin.

Does it matter what he did?, not really, what matters is what they believe he did!

I struggle to understand you're not caring what happens in a country with family members residing in it.

It's easier to understand your relations staunch support of Thaksin as I initially encountered that with my relations here as well. All 11 members voted for Thaksin in his first election and I struggled to get them to understand his gross manipulations. After many discussions and evidence-producing, it eventually paid off, albeit in a small way, when by his second election, all 11 voted for other Party candidates. Not an earth-moving event in the big scheme of things, but proof that it is possible if one invests the time and energy. A pre-requisite of caring for what happens where one (or one's family) lives is, however, necessary.

btw, my 4,000+ days in-country is one heck of a "visit."

Well said Bucholz. I can also share some family success, my adult Thai son was very negative about thaksin from day one and said so, and he was almost tared and feathered by his Essan relatives. In more recent times many have realized that 'the man' was not as honest as they had thought, was full of sweet mouth tricks, and many have realized that police vigilanty justice is wrong and has very negative effects on trying to build fair and appropriate justice for all. Some have even been brave enough to speak out in their villages and in the main, once they spoke out many other quickly followed them.

Edited November 4, 2010 by scorecard

[TheyCallmeScooter]

If you are a passenger in a bus and the driver is running all the bikes and smaller vehicles off the road and going through every speed bump and zebra crossings at 100Km/H, would you still say I am just a passenger or the bus does not belong to me?

What a fantastic analogy.

There are many who often say "if you don't like it, just go home".

Jumping off a speeding bus is easier said than done. Might be preferable to apply what little pressure one can exert, onto the brakes.

[scorecard]

Are you being sarcastic?

Assuming that you are not, are you aware of what kind of people you are hoping will lead the country? e.g. Do you know about Chalerm and his sons?

What do you think of Jatuporn Prompan? An honorable man?

I don't care who leads the country, not my country, not my business, I'm only visiting (same as you).

My wife and the other villagers do care, they live here and they love Thaksin.

Does it matter what he did?, not really, what matters is what they believe he did!

Well maybe for the long-term sake of your wife's future and the future development of Thailand inot a full civil society who should care and should make an effort to show your wife other perspectives. sarahsbloke, on 2010-11-03 14:44, said:

"Thaksin had all the village drug dealers shot, he saved me, Thaksin is a wonderful man."

What's this mean? Thaksin saved you because all the drug dealers in your village were killed?

[rixalex]

My wife told me when she was younger, her and all her friends in the village used to take lots of drugs. Thaksin had all the village drug dealers shot, he saved me, Thaksin is a wonderful man.

I wonder how your wife and her friends would feel about the innocent people who were killed because of that crackdown? Unfortunate but in the end, worthwhile sacrifices?

Seems a shame does it not, that rather than go round shooting innocent people willy-nilly, these drug dopes couldn't have stopped their habits off their own backs. Alas. A bit too much trouble no doubt. Shoot people instead. Much better solution.

[ballpoint]

My wife told me when she was younger, her and all her friends in the village used to take lots of drugs. Thaksin had all the village drug dealers shot, he saved me, Thaksin is a wonderful man.

I wonder how your wife and her friends would feel about the innocent people who were killed because of that crackdown? Unfortunate but in the end, worthwhile sacrifices?

Seems a shame does it not, that rather than go round shooting innocent people willy-nilly, these drug dopes couldn't have stopped their habits off their own backs. Alas. A bit too much trouble no doubt. Shoot people instead. Much better solution.

Oooh yes! I was a manic shopaholic, I couldn't walk past Central World without going inside and spending loads of money. Luckily for me, that nice Mr Arisman burned the place down. He saved me. Mr Arisman is a wonderful man.

Edited November 4, 2010 by ballpoint

[Buchholz]

Is Thaksin Shinawatra abusing the International Criminal Court?

Has the man lost his marbles or does he just think he’s really smart? All of Thailand’s dailies splashed it over their front pages recently: Thaksin Shinawatra intends to sue current prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva at the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague for “crimes against humanity” in connection with the 91 deaths during the so-called redshirt protests in Bangkok in April and May this year. At least that is what Thaksin’s somewhat controversial US-based lawyer, Robert Amsterdam, has announced. According to Amsterdam (who wants to sue in The Hague; can you recognize the irony?), the indictment has been drafted and submitted to the ICC. Thaksin doesn’t sue as an individual but represents the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, a.k.a. Red Shirts.

One wonders what right – also from a moral point of view – Thaksin has to attempt such a lawsuit, especially if one remembers the unsavory incidents that occurred during his own tenure as prime minister and resulted in the deaths of far more potentially innocents. There is for example the “War on Drugs”, which was propagated and driven by Thaksin and cost some 2.500 deaths within a few months. The “Krue Se” incident is another example that Thaksin is walking on thin ice when it comes to accusations of “crimes against humanity”. Yet another incident that happened only shortly after the mosque siege in the same province, resulted in some 80 deaths. The Army had rounded up “suspected insurgents” in Narathiwat’s Tak Bai district. He repeatedly described himself as beacon and protector of “true democracy” and didn’t shy away from comparing himself with Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela and Myanmar’s Aung San Suu Kyi.

As the Red Shirt protests in Bangkok and elsewhere in Thailand gained momentum and the protesters occupied and hermetically sealed off entire streets in the capital, Thaksin was already on the run for almost two years from a court sentence of two years imprisonment imposed for corruption in a land deal by his former wife. Further corruption indictments against the former prime minister are currently lingering in the courts. In inflaming speeches that Thaksin delivered to his supporters via video links from constantly changing localities around the world, he encouraged them unmistakably to oppose – if necessary, violently – the government of current prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva. He repeatedly declared that he would immediately return to Thailand to “stand side by side” with his Red Shirt supporters if the situation intensified.

Continues:

http://www.macaudailytimes.com.mo/opinion/18677-Thaksin-Shinawatra-abusing-the-International-Criminal-Court.html

Macau Daily Times - November 4, 2010

[rubl]

The ICC seems still busy deliberating whether or not to accept the complaint lodged by the UDD. On their website nothing to be found on this. I think they have six week to decide on acceptance, refusal, or 'more info' required. Any decision will be properly phrased and documented and normally not easily digestible for non-lawyers. About end of this month we should know more.

[phiphidon]

Is Thaksin Shinawatra abusing the International Criminal Court?

Has the man lost his marbles or does he just think he's really smart?

Macau Daily Times - November 4, 2010

Wonder if Mr Schmidt got paid a lot for that story or whether he manages to make ends meet with his freelance writing expertise offer;

" My report is going to change your world for just $8.50! "

http://www.thomasschmidreports.com/

[Buchholz]

Irregardless of the journalist's salary, he makes many, many valid points.

[phiphidon]

Irregardless of the journalist's salary, he makes many, many valid points.

Sorry, too subtle. I was questioning his approach to the "story". How do I sell this story? Let's make it controversial, somebody will pick it up. Was it published in any of the other august organs he contributes to? Disregarding for a moment, if you can, I know it's hard for you, the person to whom this piece refers, does the author make a living out of his insightful political comments, or do his skills lie elsewhere? A hint from his booklet, on sale now at only $8.50,

"There is actually nothing holding you back from having your work published, except the numerous, mysterious rules that are set in place. Professional journalists and writers know these rules. This is their advantage, and that is why they succeed. It's not wizardry, it's not sheer luck either, but it's a concise understanding of what publishers need, want and desire".

Edited November 4, 2010 by phiphidon

[Buchholz]

Irregardless of the journalist's salary, he makes many, many valid points.

Sorry, too subtle. I was questioning his approach to the "story". How do I sell this story?

The author is a correspondent for the newspaper and presumably a paid employee.

[whybother]

Irregardless of the journalist's salary, he makes many, many valid points.

Sorry, too subtle. I was questioning his approach to the "story". How do I sell this story? Let's make it controversial, somebody will pick it up. Was it published in any of the other august organs he contributes to? Disregarding for a moment, if you can, I know it's hard for you, the person to whom this piece refers, does the author make a living out of his insightful political comments, or do his skills lie elsewhere? A hint from his booklet, on sale now at only $8.50,

"There is actually nothing holding you back from having your work published, except the numerous, mysterious rules that are set in place. Professional journalists and writers know these rules. This is their advantage, and that is why they succeed. It's not wizardry, it's not sheer luck either, but it's a concise understanding of what publishers need, want and desire".

Didn't a few people go through this with Nick Nostitz in another thread a few days ago?

[Buchholz]

Norway to Hold Meeting Between Sanan and Thaksin

Thailand's Deputy Prime Minister, Sanan Kachornprasart, and ex-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra might hold a meeting in Norway very soon.

Legal Advisor Noppadon Patama said on Wednesday, although he could not confirm, that he believes Sanan would like to meet Thaksin at a Buddhist temple.

Sanan is presently making a trip to Norway to bring back an old Buddhist scripture for exhibition in Thailand, says The Nation.

Noppadon knows that Sanan keeps in touch with fugitive ex-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, but

ScandAsia

The other paper has Noppadon repeating his claim and that Sanan and Thaksin will meet in Norway and is now specifying that it will occur today.

He's reported that his boss flew into Norway yesterday after being invited to do so by monks at a temple in Oslo and to take part in the ceremony whereby Buddhist artifacts are turned over to Sanan for display in Thailand.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Buchholz

[webfact]

Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Meets Thaksin in Norway

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's legal advisor Noppadol Pattama has revealed that Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Kajornprasart is now in Norway and is scheduled to meet former Prime Minister Thaksin at a Thai temple today. DPM Sanan is on a mission for national reconciliation, where he will try to meet all parties involved with Thailand's political divide.

-- Tan Network 2010-11-06

[Robby nz]

And

Mr Noppadon expected Thaksin to ask Maj-Gen Sanan about the progress of his meetings with various political parties and groups of people in Thailand.

"The former prime minister has no objections to reconciliation. Whether Maj-Gen Sanan would be successful in his mission remains to be seen," he added.

I wonder what "The former prime minister's" idea of reconciliation is?

[rubl]

And

Mr Noppadon expected Thaksin to ask Maj-Gen Sanan about the progress of his meetings with various political parties and groups of people in Thailand.

"The former prime minister has no objections to reconciliation. Whether Maj-Gen Sanan would be successful in his mission remains to be seen," he added.

I wonder what "The former prime minister's" idea of reconciliation is?

I personally have some ideas, but refrain from answering on this nice Saturday afternoon.

Ask k. Thaksin himself, or ask k. Noppadon, or if really desperate for an answer ask Robert A. You will get it in long winding English sentences as well then

[Buchholz]

Sanan, Thaksin meet in Norway

Fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra was to meet Chart Thai Party chief adviser Sanan Kachornprasart in Norway yesterday to discuss their joint national reconciliation efforts, Thaksin's lawyer Noppadon Pattama said.

The two politicians would use their presence at a Thai temple in Norway for a ceremony to accept an antique Tripitaka to talk about problems facing the country and campaigns calling for democracy and justice, Noppadon added.

Sanan has been leading a national campaign on his own initiative to bring about national reconciliation.

Noppadon said the success of the talks between Thaksin and Sanan immensely depended on cooperation from the government. "I do not have high hopes, but I do not mean to discourage him. Sanan is over 70 and I fully support his efforts," he said.

Noppadon rebutted claims by the Democrats that Thaksin's Canadian lawyer, Robert Amsterdam, is planning a campaign against the Thai government and Thai courts in South Africa on Friday. He said the Democrat claim was merely mudslinging and a malicious attack launched to divert public attention from the government's failure to help people affected by floods.

He said Amsterdam was just going to submit a statement about undemocratic incidents and injustice in Thailand at a meeting of political parties from democratic countries around the world.

"If he presents stupid and nonsense statements, he would risk being rejected and ridiculed because those attending the meeting have their own judgement and follow the situation in Thailand," he said.

-- The Nation 2010-11-07

[Buchholz]

Noppadon rebutted claims by the Democrats that Thaksin's Canadian lawyer, Robert Amsterdam, is planning a campaign against the Thai government and Thai courts in South Africa on Friday. He said the Democrat claim was merely mudslinging and a malicious attack launched to divert public attention from the government's failure to help people affected by floods.

The truth is Amsterdam has already started "a campaign against the Thai government." Noppadon isn't as good as Amsterdam is with his misleading quips. His cries of "mudslinging" and "malicious" are hollow.

Thaksin Shinawatra intends to sue current prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva at the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague for “crimes against humanity” in connection with the 91 deaths during the so-called red shirt protests in Bangkok in April and May this year. At least that is what Thaksin’s somewhat controversial US-based lawyer, Robert Amsterdam, has announced.

http://www.macaudailytimes.com.mo/opinion/18677-Thaksin-Shinawatra-abusing-the-International-Criminal-Court.html

In contrast to Noppadon's forgery of reality, that he is he is attempting to absurdly link a natural disaster (responded to with above average efforts) to politics is "mudslinging" and "malicious."

Noppadon about Amsterdam:

"If he presents stupid and nonsense statements"

But isn't that a given?

he would risk being rejected and ridiculed

Too late. It's already happened. Anyway, the South African forum may well give Amsterdam the sort of cold shoulder the UN Sec Gen gave the Red Shirts last week.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Buchholz

[whybother]

Sanan, Thaksin meet in Norway

Fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra was to meet Chart Thai Party chief adviser Sanan Kachornprasart in Norway yesterday to discuss their joint national reconciliation efforts, Thaksin's lawyer Noppadon Pattama said.

The two politicians would use their presence at a Thai temple in Norway for a ceremony to accept an antique Tripitaka to talk about problems facing the country and campaigns calling for democracy and justice, Noppadon added.

<snip>

So, did they meet or not?

Once again, excellent The Nation reporting. They have a headline that indicates that the met, but then go on about what would do when they met. They've just rehashed previous articles, with no new information. And then they've gone off on their obligatory barely related topic.

[Buchholz]

Norway to Hold Meeting Between Sanan and Thaksin

PS does Norway knows she holds a meeting ?

That was the first thing I wondered about.

A review of several Norwegian news media sources turned up nothing.

Perhaps Norway hasn't been informed yet.

So, did they meet or not?

Still found nothing in several Norwegian news media sources and news searches in general.

Only thing that turns up is Noppadon's assertions in a few local media outlets.

[hammered]

Its all in the context of an upcoming (probably/maybe) election which is in the context of the intra elite power struggle which is all mixed in with a completley different issue of democracy (elections and checks and balances) etc. It is just like deja vue

[Buchholz]

he would risk being rejected and ridiculed

Too late. It's already happened. Anyway, the South African forum may well give Amsterdam the sort of cold shoulder the UN Sec Gen gave the Red Shirts last week.

If he does give a speech, he'll have to wedge in his statement during the one session (for 4 hours) that the forum conference will actually do something during the 3 day conference:

http://www.liberal-international.org/contentFiles/files/Draft%20Programme.doc

notwithstanding the importance of the "Western Cape Excursion" or the "Lunch at Lanzerac Wine Estate"

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Oooh yes! I was a manic shopaholic, I couldn't walk past Central World without going inside and spending loads of money. Luckily for me, that nice Mr Arisman burned the place down. He saved me. Mr Arisman is a wonderful man.

Sigh. Emporium. It stands untouched.

It's just...criminal. To burn CentralWorld instead.

How do I sell this story? Let's make it controversial, somebody will pick it up.

Thanks for pointing out what 12 year olds reading their first newspaper can 'figure' out.

You've also kind of described the entire Red Propaganda Network's 'strategy'.

You've kind of described Robert Amsterdam's entire life's work.

Although, of course, the $8.50 guy writes obvious truth. The $850,000 guy writes filthy lies like "Abhisit = Mugabe".

So, did they meet or not?

Once again, excellent The Nation reporting. They have a headline that indicates that the met, but then go on about what would do when they met. They've just rehashed previous articles, with no new information. And then they've gone off on their obligatory barely related topic.

In no way am I saying The Bangkok Post is a 'decent' newspaper, but compared to The Nation...

The simple truth is the entire spectrum of Thai media operates with less professionalism / ethics than would be deemed 'acceptable' for a high school amateur newspaper.

Most journalists quote 'sources' that simply - so obviously - do not exist.

They break laws - serious breaches like contempt of court - routinely.

I'm yet to read a journalist who understands the difference between a 'news' article and an 'opinion' piece.

And, to put the icing on the idiot cake, they have the nerve to wax lyrical about 'freedoms of the press'.

I wouldn't give my grandson the keys to my car when he's 3 years old. He can cry all he wants. His crying is more valid than the whining of the Thai media.