Merkel says German multicultural society has failed

The German Chancellor, Angela Merkel: "lmmigrants should learn to speak German"

Attempts to build a multicultural society in Germany have "utterly failed", Chancellor Angela Merkel says.

She said the so-called "multikulti" concept - where people would "live side-by-side" happily - did not work, and immigrants needed to do more to integrate - including learning German.

The comments come amid rising anti-immigration feeling in Germany.

A recent survey suggested more than 30% of people believed the country was "overrun by foreigners".

The study - by the Friedrich Ebert Foundation think-tank - also showed that roughly the same number thought that some 16 million of Germany's immigrants or people with foreign origins had come to the country for its social benefits

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-11559451

LaoPo

The comments come amid rising anti-immigration feeling in Germany.

A recent survey suggested more than 30% of people believed the country was "overrun by foreigners".

In modern times it's easier to keep to the old ways, language and culture. For example, 100 years ago if someone wanted to immigrate to America, that trans-Atlantic steamship journey was a major deal. When you got there, you stayed there. Unless you were in the Northeast, you probably had to read English (although I recently heard there were hundreds of German-language newspapers in the US prior to WWI). Anyway, today, that flight back to the old country take mere hours and isn't all that expensive. Every city has ethnic restaurants and stores where you can buy products directly from your home country. The Internet & SAT TVmakes it easy to keep up with everything going on back home, etc. It's just very easy to live on the other side of the world and never seem too far from home.

So what's the solution? You can't force people to learn a language. What works best is when the NEED to learn. This makes things toughest for English speakers since English is spoken to some degree in most countries. Since you can't force people to learn the language, and in today's day and age people don't need to learn the local language except in certain cases (university, politics,etc) then there isn't much that can be done about it. Not much of a solution though.

^^^^

I think you miss the point, made by Angela Merkel.

If immigrants want to come to a certain western country and do so because of work, social and economical benefits they SHOULD learn the language of the country they wish for; whatever the reason: uniting families, spouses wanting to marry a boy/girl from their own country rather than an educated local one etc.

You only speak about English and the American situation. In Europe there are many different languages, often much more difficult to learn.

In Europe there's huge problem of immigrants who never integrate but stick together and mostly benefit from the structure in place which they wouldn't have by far in their own country as well as the wellfare social structure in place.

The moment that such a wellfare social structure would fall apart (read: not allowed anymore) the roads and planes would be full of (former) immigrants, going back to their own country since it's cheaper to live there than in their present host countries.

On top of that: many western countries are greying countries and a decreasing young people-population have to pay for the growing elderly population, incouding the immigrants..

The -thinking- problem most European countries/governments made, starting in the '60's of last century was that they expected the guest-workers ie immigrants to return to their homelands, once the jobs were finished.

They didn't and stayed, benefitting from the social structure and "acceptance".

That's the European problem.

Think the other way around....would a Farang who found a job in Thailand be able to stay and even paid a social wellfare compensation or pension ?

LaoPo

So what's the solution? You can't force people to learn a language.

That makes no sense.

If an immigrant wants to come to a certain country, where ever in the world, he should learn the language at full speed.

Otherwise he wouldn't have a chance at all on the labor market, finding a job.

He would be considered a 2nd class worker by most employers.

LaoPo

He would be considered a 2nd class worker by most employers.

Which is probably what employers are looking for in immigrant labour, someone they can pay third class wages.

"If immigrants want to come to a certain western country and do so because of work, social and economical benefits they SHOULD learn the language of the country they wish for; whatever the reason: uniting families, spouses wanting to marry a boy/girl from their own country rather than an educated local one etc."

that is only fair. but complete rubbish regulations are what the Germans and (i think the Brits too) have concocted since a couple of years. Germany requires "Goethe Institut Level One" german language knowledge before a settlement visa is granted for the spouse. my wife, who's mother tongue is english, did three months Goethe Institut more than 31 years ago. not because it was required but because she wanted to learn the language.

but how long does it take for a girl from Issaan, Korea, Japan or China, who doesn't even know how to read/write latin script, to achieve that grade?

ah sez... german politicians and average german citizens = hypocrites and the latter uneducated bullshitters²!

p.s. (remark meant for Lao Po) Geert Wilders = racist pig with master race attitude who (hopefully) will be slaughtered soon.

pps. i know you voted for him

"If immigrants want to come to a certain western country and do so because of work, social and economical benefits they SHOULD learn the language of the country they wish for; whatever the reason: uniting families, spouses wanting to marry a boy/girl from their own country rather than an educated local one etc."

that is only fair. but complete rubbish regulations are what the Germans and (i think the Brits too) have concocted since a couple of years. Germany requires "Goethe Institut Level One" german language knowledge before a settlement visa is granted for the spouse. my wife, who's mother tongue is english, did three months Goethe Institut more than 31 years ago. not because it was required but because she wanted to learn the language.

but how long does it take for a girl from Issaan, Korea, Japan or China, who doesn't even know how to read/write latin script, to achieve that grade?

ah sez... german politicians and average german citizens = hypocrites and the latter uneducated bullshitters²!

p.s. (remark meant for Lao Po) Geert Wilders = racist pig with master race attitude who (hopefully) will be slaughtered soon.

pps. i know you voted for him

1. Even Angela Merkel now said that immigrants in Germany should learn to speak German and her colleague from Turkey Erdohan encouraged the 2.5 millions of Turks in Germany to integrate more and learn to speak perfect German as well. And...they're both right.

Merkel even had to admit that the German politics of integration totally failed, totally.

The problem is not anymore what Merkel, you and I think what's good and right, it's the feelings amongst the people, living and working in the streets, who are expressing their "angst" about the future and the role immigrants are playing in their host country.

If Thilo Sarrazin sells more than 1 million books 'Deutschland schafft sich ab' (Germany is eliminating itself) in a few weeks in Germany it says something about the feelings of the people! And we should listen to the people, not what a few intellectual people say or think.

I'm not saying the intellectuals are wrong, au contraire, but it shows how twisted the societies in Europe have become.

The weirdest extra of all this is that Germany needs another 500/600.000 foreign workers to take the place of the greying society.

2. Not only the Germans (and lately the Brits) but the Dutch implemented a language test also to be taken on the Embassies, worldwide, in the country of origin of the one who wants to come to the NL.

3. My wife had to take the integration course when she arrived in my country. At that time, immigrants were (and still are) allowed (newcomers before 2006 I believe) to take their time for that course but many didn't even succeed within 3-5 years. My wife took 8 months and that was exceptional.

4. Geert Wilders:

Well, he has now 2 successors in Germany also and we just installed our new Minority Government last Thursday created out of 2 parties, the Liberal VVD and the Social Democrats CDA with together 52 seats in Parliament out of 150

The latter party, CDA had 41 seats in 2006 before the new elections in 2010, some 4 months ago, and dropped to 21 seats but are now (again) in the government with 50% of the ministers; 6 out of 12...

How that can be?

Well, the government is and will be supported with the votes of the PVV of Geert Wilders who increased his parliament seats from 9 in 2006 to a staggering 24 seats in 2010. Amazing performance for a man who was a party member of the VVD and left that party in 2004 and remained in parliament on his own with just 1 seat.

Geert Wilders is on trial in Amsterdam since last week for his expressions but the "People" already asked the Court to dismiss him on several accounts; today the trial continues.

The point is that he is painted by the foreign and also Dutch press is that he's a racist but Wilders is an extremely intelligent (political) and also charismatic man and he's not racist against certain people of another race or country (married to a Hungarian Lady himself) but heavily opposing the Islam and the Kuran of which he says it is a violent book and to be compared with Hitler's Mein Kampf. And the Islam, being a suppressive religion.

He is playing on the general uncomfortable (European) -under skin- feelings amongst a vast majority of people about the heavy inflow of immigrants since many years.

Fact is that ALL European countries made the (thinking) mistake that the than (50's/60's of last century) needed so called guest workers from many countries like Spain, Portugal, Italy and later Morocco, Turkey etc. were supposed to leave again with a wallet of money to their respective native countries, once their jobs were done.

But, they didn't and were also not required to learn the language.

The countries in the EU were too kind and polite and let them stay and rewarded the "finished" workers with comfortable social allowances if they didn't/couldn't find another job; of course they didn't return to their countries; would 'you' being paid by Thailand's government ? Rhetorical question of course.

The result was and is that they didn't integrate and sticked together in their own neighbourhoods and that specially counts for the Moroccans and Turks, next to the many Africans we have from countries like Somalia and Ghana.

The former immigrant workers from Spain, Portugal, Italy didn't stick together, if they staid (and many did) and integrated completely.

The result is also that Moroccan and Turkish youngsters are mostly Islamic who "import" (forced by parents or not) their new brides from their respective countries, mostly very poor and submissive girls, non-educated an not able to speak the foreign language.

However, it was not Wilders who tightened the knots at the gates of NL; previous governments already started doing so; he just played on the feelings of the people in a time it was very sensitive to talk about the "Islam and Kuran" since we had the brutal murders in our country on Theo van Gogh, murdered and slaughtered by a Dutch born Moroccan Islamic extremist in 2004 in the morning when he was riding his bike in Amsterdam, and the murder on the than presumably new PM of NL, Pim Fortuyn who was murdered next to a television studio by a Dutch extremist in 2002.

Fortuyn was also someone who was expressing the feelings of the people, worried about the criminal behaviour of many youngsters of mainly Moroccan descent.

The country was in total shock because of these 2 brutal murders on VIP's and a kind of consensus grew in politics that we had to be careful with addressing our worries about extremists and Islamic people/immigrants in general.

Germany, Holland, France, UK, Italy (with many Africans) are being served a plate of problems for the mistakes they made themselves, back in the '50's and '60's for not taking the immigrants serious and not working enough to have them integrate.

Fact is that they will never integrate; not the elderly first 2 generations.

Because of the very low education the first 2 generations had, most children -not all!- were not encouraged to study and the results were youngsters becoming criminal since that was the only way to make money.

Employers didn't and don't want them unless they can prove a high(er) education and are adapted to the lifestyle of the European country.

Conclusion: I do not approve 100% of what Geert Wilders is shouting from the roofs but I can understand many of his points and the acceptence of the same by 15,5% of the electorate in the country but that's worrying, very worrying at the same time.

And, what's more: the Islamic intellectuals in NL agree that something has to be done amongst their own people to let them see that they can't continue the same as they did for decades.

Enough for now.

LaoPo

I grew up in Detroit in the 1950's. Dodge automobiles were made by Polish people. If you didn't speak Polish you could not get a job at Dodge Main assembly plant, the whole line spoke Polish. There was a large Greek town too. The Italians did all the subcontracting. The Sicilians ran the mob.

I went to Catholic schools and all the immigrants were Catholic so I knew a lot of them.

These four ethnic minorities spoke their own languages at home. The second generation went to school and spoke English as a first language.

There was some intermarriage but not as much as you might think especially among the Sicilians.

A guy by the name of Tocco is a good example. His dad was a mob boss in the old 1930's style. The son went to college and got a degree in Finance (1949) and took over the Detroit mob in the 1970's. He had a good run and didn't get thrown into jail until 1998, I think, and then only for a couple of years. I went to school with his kids. Giant house, we could ride our bicycles indoors.

There were a few assimilation problems. Although Sicilians and Greek people like to stick with their own. The church helped a lot. It mixed all the Catholics.

There needs to be some tie. Some way of recognizing the each other are not devils. You can't go to a Polish wedding and not love everybody there.

In Detroit, in the 1970s, a group of Yemeni immigrants successfully sued for control of a Lebanese mosque built several decades before. At issue were violations of the mosque's bylaws concerning gambling, sex, and alcohol. Over the years, the mosque had hosted bingo games, singles nights, belly dancing sessions, and beer parties.

15 percent of Muslims under the age of 30 say that suicide bombing could be justified “often” or “sometimes”— compared to 6 percent among Muslims over 30 years of age.

47 percent thought of themselves as “Muslim first” rather than American first.

Europe's Muslims: A Different Picture

Assimilation isn’t the norm for Muslims in other Western countries. While more than half of American Muslims think of themselves as Americans first, the picture is quite different in most of Europe, where Muslims tend to identify themselves primarily as Muslim rather than as British, Spanish or German, for example. The exception is France, where Muslims are split almost evenly on this question. In fact, the level of Muslim identification in Britain, Spain and Germany is similar to that in Pakistan, Nigeria and Jordan, and even higher than levels in Egypt, Turkey and Indonesia.

Those are some findings of the Pew Research Center’s Global Attitudes survey last year.

Asked whether Muslims coming into their country today wanted to assimilate, only 30 percent of German Muslims said they wanted to adopt national customs; it was 41 percent in Britain, 53 percent in Spain and 78 percent in France. Most Muslims surveyed felt that Islamic identity among Muslims in those countries was growing.

The belief that terrorism is justifiable in the defense of Islam had a sizable number of adherents among Europe’s Muslim minorities. Roughly one in seven in France, Spain and Great Britain (but one in 15 in Germany) felt that suicide bombings against civilian targets could at least sometimes be justified to defend Islam against its enemies. But while the numbers for American Muslims are far lower, in one significant respect they agree: Fewer than half of the Muslims in Europe and the U.S. said they believed that Arabs carried out the 9/11 attacks.

The problem to me seems insurmountable. I don't see any change for the better in the future. The problems are as much outside the countries as within the countries.

So what's the solution? You can't force people to learn a language.

That makes no sense.

If an immigrant wants to come to a certain country, where ever in the world, he should learn the language at full speed.

Otherwise he wouldn't have a chance at all on the labor market, finding a job.

He would be considered a 2nd class worker by most employers.

LaoPo

It depends. I've worked in countries where I don't speak the local language and I've never been a "2nd class worker", just the opposite. Most of the 2nd class workers were the ones who were native speakers of the local language.

You only speak about English and the American situation. In Europe there are many different languages, often much more difficult to learn.

I used to be impressed with the number of languages Europeans spoke - until I went there. Signs in multiple languages, menus, TV, constant practice with others, etc. In that environment you almost need to be a moron not to speak more than one language.

So what's the solution? You can't force people to learn a language.

That makes no sense.

If an immigrant wants to come to a certain country, where ever in the world, he should learn the language at full speed.

Otherwise he wouldn't have a chance at all on the labor market, finding a job.

He would be considered a 2nd class worker by most employers.

LaoPo

It depends. I've worked in countries where I don't speak the local language and I've never been a "2nd class worker", just the opposite. Most of the 2nd class workers were the ones who were native speakers of the local language.

There are always exceptions and you're probably a high educated individual.

I spoke of the masses.

If an undereducated girl from the countryside in Turkey or Morocco comes to a European country and she doesn't speak the language of her host country she can't even become a teller's girl in a supermarket.

She's only fit to work as a cleaning woman if allowed so by her spouse and FIL's

LaoPo

You only speak about English and the American situation. In Europe there are many different languages, often much more difficult to learn.

I used to be impressed with the number of languages Europeans spoke - until I went there. Signs in multiple languages, menus, TV, constant practice with others, etc. In that environment you almost need to be a moron not to speak more than one language.

That's a misconception.

A lot of European people do speak some foreign language to a certain extent but don't ask the majority to write something down in another language than their own.

You would be shocked at the low level of foreign language knowledge, even amongst the average higher educated ones.

Drive into any village in Germany and ask someone for the directions in English....

Drive into any village in France and do the same in German or English....

Drive into any village in the UK and do the same in French or German and it's even worse.

In your eyes there are a few hundred million morons in Europe.

How many languages do you master ?

LaoPo

It depends. I've worked in countries where I don't speak the local language and I've never been a "2nd class worker", just the opposite. Most of the 2nd class workers were the ones who were native speakers of the local language.

There are always exceptions and you're probably a high educated individual.

Naw, they just won't let me into those other countries.

I spoke of the masses.

If an undereducated girl from the countryside in Turkey or Morocco comes to a European country and she doesn't speak the language of her host country she can't even become a teller's girl in a supermarket.

She's only fit to work as a cleaning woman if allowed so by her spouse and FIL's

The under-educated workers are thought of as 2nd class workers by employers whether they speak the local lingo or not.

You only speak about English and the American situation. In Europe there are many different languages, often much more difficult to learn.

I used to be impressed with the number of languages Europeans spoke - until I went there. Signs in multiple languages, menus, TV, constant practice with others, etc. In that environment you almost need to be a moron not to speak more than one language.

That's a misconception.

A lot of European people do speak some foreign language to a certain extent but don't ask the majority to write something down in another language than their own.

You would be shocked at the low level of foreign language knowledge, even amongst the average higher educated ones.

Drive into any village in Germany and ask someone for the directions in English....

Drive into any village in France and do the same in German or English....

Drive into any village in the UK and do the same in French or German and it's even worse.

In your eyes there are a few hundred million morons in Europe.

How many languages do you master ?

LaoPo

A few hundred million morons in Europe? You said it, not me.

I speak two languages (completey diff alphabets), a third I can get by in and read some (still more than 6.87 billion other people), studied a 4th 30+ years ago for 3 years so I'm a false beginner in that one. I also grew up someplace where English was the language spoken for at least 1000 miles in any direction and there was zero necessity to learn a foreign language. I know some Europeans who know 4-5 languages but not a word from a neighboring country's language just 2 hours away. What does that tell you about them?

You only speak about English and the American situation. In Europe there are many different languages, often much more difficult to learn.

I used to be impressed with the number of languages Europeans spoke - until I went there. Signs in multiple languages, menus, TV, constant practice with others, etc. In that environment you almost need to be a moron not to speak more than one language.

That's a misconception.

A lot of European people do speak some foreign language to a certain extent but don't ask the majority to write something down in another language than their own.

You would be shocked at the low level of foreign language knowledge, even amongst the average higher educated ones.

Drive into any village in Germany and ask someone for the directions in English....

Drive into any village in France and do the same in German or English....

Drive into any village in the UK and do the same in French or German and it's even worse.

In your eyes there are a few hundred million morons in Europe.

How many languages do you master ?

LaoPo

Call up the Schevening Pilot on channel 16 in any European language you like and he (or she) will come right back at you

1. A few hundred million morons in Europe? You said it, not me.

I speak two languages (completey diff alphabets), a third I can get by in and read some (still more than 6.87 billion other people), studied a 4th 30+ years ago for 3 years so I'm a false beginner in that one. I also grew up someplace where English was the language spoken for at least 1000 miles in any direction and there was zero necessity to learn a foreign language. I know some Europeans who know 4-5 languages but not a word from a neighboring country's language just 2 hours away. What does that tell you about them?

1. it was you who said one had to be a moron not to speak more than one language.

2. I know many who speak 4-5 languages, including myself, 5, (my father surpassed me, speaking 7) and I do speak the language from ur neighbouring countries, just 2 hours away also.

I was lucky I suppose, being born in a small country and "forced" to study 3 foreign languages.

Unfortunately, no more since the students have the option now to choose just one, English, German, Spanish or French and I think that's a bad thing for the future of our youth.

LaoPo

1. A few hundred million morons in Europe? You said it, not me.

I speak two languages (completey diff alphabets), a third I can get by in and read some (still more than 6.87 billion other people), studied a 4th 30+ years ago for 3 years so I'm a false beginner in that one. I also grew up someplace where English was the language spoken for at least 1000 miles in any direction and there was zero necessity to learn a foreign language. I know some Europeans who know 4-5 languages but not a word from a neighboring country's language just 2 hours away. What does that tell you about them?

1. it was you who said one had to be a moron not to speak more than one language.

2. I know many who speak 4-5 languages, including myself, 5, (my father surpassed me, speaking 7) and I do speak the language from ur neighbouring countries, just 2 hours away also.

I was lucky I suppose, being born in a small country and "forced" to study 3 foreign languages.

Unfortunately, no more since the students have the option now to choose just one, English, German, Spanish or French and I think that's a bad thing for the future of our youth.

LaoPo

Yes, I did, but you put the few hundred million figure on it.

People from small countries learning multiple languages doesn't impress me as much anymore (no offense intended). Not only are you surrounded by other languages in written and spoken form from day one, you have great motivation because it's necessary. Someone born in the heart of Russia, USA, China, or other large countries who speak a foreign language not spoken within thousands of miles is more impressive than resident of a tiny country speaking multiple languages that are nearby.

I'm curious what your opinion is of the people I mentioned in my last post, who learn multiple (3-5) foreign languages except the one from their immediate neighbor 2 hours drive away. It's not a trick question. Whenever I travelled between the two, I always thought it interesting that even within a kilometer of the border they don't understand each other. I'm sure this is common when the two countries don't rely on each other for trade, security, etc.

1. Someone born in the heart of Russia, USA, China, or other large countries who speak a foreign language not spoken within thousands of miles is more impressive than resident of a tiny country speaking multiple languages that are nearby.

2. I'm curious what your opinion is of the people I mentioned in my last post, who learn multiple (3-5) foreign languages except the one from their immediate neighbor 2 hours drive away. It's not a trick question. Whenever I travelled between the two, I always thought it interesting that even within a kilometer of the border they don't understand each other. I'm sure this is common when the two countries don't rely on each other for trade, security, etc.

1. That's the most silly I've ever seen written about people who speak one language or 5 languages. If one stydy one languages deep in the heart of any given country it takes efforts and sweat to learn that one language. Bravo!

But people who speak 5 languages take 5 times as much sweat to learn those 5 languages.

You tell me that learning 5 languages is not so impressive; really?

2. Your question what I think about people who speak 3-5 foreign languages except the one from their immediate neighbour?

How can I answer if I don't know what mysterious countries you're talking about?

LaoPo

How can I answer if I don't know what mysterious countries you're talking about?

LaoPo

national security!

You tell me that learning 5 languages is not so impressive; really?

of course it is not impressive. take for example young children from six different countries. they speak at least 5, perhaps even 6 languages.

You tell me that learning 5 languages is not so impressive; really?

of course it is not impressive. take for example young children from six different countries. they speak at least 5, perhaps even 6 languages.

Welcome to another multi-language speaking/reading/writing member who knows what it means to speak many languages. But Mr. Koheesti is more impressed with a Russian in Siberia who learned Swahili rather than another world citizen who speaks 5 or more languages.

Right...

Maybe we can return to the OP's question which is a lot more important in nowadays world:

Can Multicultural Countries In The West Be Successful Qua Integration ?

LaoPo

Does integration mean speaking the local lingo?

Or is it more than that?

Why not all learn Esperanto if the first requirement is understanding what each person says?

I tried to convey in an earlier post that was perhaps to long winded that I didn't think language had much to do with it. That will take care of itself in a couple of generations. Trying to blow people up or sympathizing with people who blow people up is going to rile the locals to no end.

.

You tell me that learning 5 languages is not so impressive; really?

of course it is not impressive. take for example young children from six different countries. they speak at least 5, perhaps even 6 languages.

Welcome to another multi-language speaking/reading/writing member who knows what it means to speak many languages. But Mr. Koheesti is more impressed with a Russian in Siberia who learned Swahili rather than another world citizen who speaks 5 or more languages.

Right...

Someone who grew up in south western Europe who speaks/reads/writes French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and Catalan IS NOT as impressive as a Russian speaking/reading/writing Swahili. You are probably of a different opinion.

Do you beleive speaking/writing/reading multiple languages is an indicator of higher intelligence?

Does integration mean speaking the local lingo?

Or is it more than that?

Why not all learn Esperanto if the first requirement is understanding what each person says?

Of course it does; but integration means a lot more than just speaking the language of the host country.

Mind you, I'm not talking about (retired) Farang living or coming to Thailand; it's the same as retired people going to enjoy their retirement in a warmer climate.

I'm talking about people who leave their country for economical- and family re-uniting reasons, next to a few other possibilities.

If you come to a foreign country: adapt.

LaoPo

Someone who grew up in south western Europe who speaks/reads/writes French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and Catalan IS NOT as impressive as a Russian speaking/reading/writing Swahili. You are probably of a different opinion.

Do you beleive speaking/writing/reading multiple languages is an indicator of higher intelligence?

1. The languages you mention are all inter connected so called Romance languages but that doesn't mean that a Spanish speaking person can understand Catalan; NO WAY!

There are about 10 million people speaking Catalan and they are the most proud people of Spain (and the economical engine for Spain as well), next to the Basque people, but there are more Spaniards speaking Spanish/Castilian (and not understanding Catalan) than there are Catalans.

But the Spaniard can manage himself with some hand and feet movements to make himself understood in Italy and Portugal but France is already more difficult for him; a lot more!

However, most of the higher educated Catalans speak French.

But your opinion that a person, speaking French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and Catalan is not so impressive as a Russian, speaking Swahili is not shared by me.

It shows you don't understand the difficulties in languages. I speak Spanish also but there's no way I can manage Catalan; it's too complicated and I can only understand maybe 10 to 15% and that would already be an exaggeration since I am guessing too much.

2. Not necessarily more intelligent but it takes many years of study to speak, read and write foreign languages; next to that there are people who have a natural feeling for languages and there are people who will never adapt and learn another language but their own and the latter is the vast majority of the world population.

LaoPo

WOW.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have read much arguement here, very enlightening to say the least, as to how many people read / see things.

LaoPo has hit the nail on the head.

I agree with 90% of what he says.

Others have posted many of my thoughts and LP has answered with reason.

Great reading, this post is classic.

Further installments eagerly awaited.

double post

You tell me that learning 5 languages is not so impressive; really?

of course it is not impressive. take for example young children from six different countries. they speak at least 5, perhaps even 6 languages.

Welcome to another multi-language speaking/reading/writing member who knows what it means to speak many languages. But Mr. Koheesti is more impressed with a Russian in Siberia who learned Swahili rather than another world citizen who speaks 5 or more languages.

Right...

Someone who grew up in south western Europe who speaks/reads/writes French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and Catalan IS NOT as impressive as a Russian speaking/reading/writing Swahili. You are probably of a different opinion.

Do you beleive speaking/writing/reading multiple languages is an indicator of higher intelligence?

It's an interesting point, some people have a savant-like selective intelligent where they are extremely good in one field and hopeless in others. The movie Rainman provided an example where Dustin Hoffman was a maths wiz but autistic in other parts of his life.

No doubt there are people who acquire languages easily.

Intelligence is hard to quantify, there's plenty of smart people around who left school early.

Similarly there are a few well educated people who....