White Residue In Oil Window

[lennya12threh]

I'm back, and yes the victor has been treating me well and performs very well, and no I haven't wrecked it I don't think.I do like to red line it the odd time in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, but don't drive it that hard because I'm in Burirum and don't want to get attention from the police or the local teenage thugs.

Been using the 2T pump after deciding it wasn't my previous problem, but the bad carboration was and it has been seeming good. The visible 2T does seem a little in-consistent and if you drive slow it seems to clog up with too much 2T but if you let it rip it seems to burn it all off and then hardly smokes at all. But for the most part no problems as I'm not racing it or anything. I also think the main jet is a bit too large and I will try to find a slightly smaller one. (over sized main jet could cause the 2T to mix differently when driving wot too?)

But anyways, today I drove it a bit harder and nearly redlined all gears on the highway, and it's powerful, then when I stopped (engine running still) it was smoking a bit, but didn't act like or smell like 2T. Went in Big C and came back out. Driving home I stopped at a quiet place and tested with reving to look for 2T and there seemed to be plenty but not too much. (noticing that the 2T amounts seem to lower when driven hard) I then redlined 2nd3rdand 4th before getting home and then stopped again and reved it looking for smoke, and there was like none. I went home and noticed some white residue sticking to engine oil window. (I always check it and it has never gone down in months and 1000s of kms) It didn't seem like air bubbles or anything as when I tipped it and shook it stuck and smeared a bit. I then turn it on and tested it again, after driving it for a couple minutes slowly I stopped and revved it and got some good 2T smoke, so I went out and drove it hard threw all gears and stopped and again, like no smoke coming out when hitting high revs. Note my pump is adjusted to be putting almost the max amount of 2T out, as it is the only to way to get what I feel is a normal amount of smoke coming out.

I think I will switch to pre-mixing 30ml to the litre for more consistency and piece of mind. And why might there be white residue/content in the engine oil window. On the generator side there is no engine oil leak coming from the seal, and the oil level has been the same for months and 1000s of kms.

Edited October 20, 2010 by lennya12threh

[LivinLOS]

White residue / oil going cottage cheese like is usually head gasket into the oil cooling system on 4 strokes and cars...

[Garry]

When do you do an oil change on the engine? How many kilometers between changes?

[VocalNeal]

Lennya,

That's the gearbox. There is no engine oil. Unless there is a window in the 2T tank and that is what you mean.

Unlikely the cooling system gets anywhere near the gearbox.

Change the oil? If the oil comes out really dirty or contaminated you could flush out the transmission with flushing oil or diesel. If you flush, after draining fill the gearbox with the correct oil warm up the bike then drain and refill. To avoid dilution as you may not be able to get all the flushing oil/diesel out. If you can OK.

On my bike (different) the oil pump seal can be a problem and one can end up with 2T in the gearbox and it overflows.

[spud1]

White residue / oil going cottage cheese like is usually head gasket into the oil cooling system on 4 strokes and cars...

+1

[lennya12threh]

Yea, sorry I meant the gearbox oil I guess. It's a 2-stroke so it really has nothing to do with the engine.

That's interesting about the "2t in with the gearbox oil" thing, as in my case after pushing the bike hard, it seemed like (visibly from reving and looking for smoke) the pump stopped the 2t feed, yet it is set almost as open as it can. Then immediately after I noticed the white residue for the first time, and I check the levels everyday.

It must have been 5 months and I haven't changed the gear box oil, but it is still at the same level as it was then. I'll give it a change and observe it as it comes out. As for kms, alot, but I don't know. I also recently replaced the entire rpm,kms,speedo display. So now when I sell it I'll say it has only 3000 kms!

I was looking at the pump yesterday as visibly it looked clean and it opened up with the throttle and all that. I don't understand how it could end up in the gearbox though. It runs from the tank to the pump and then one small tube goes just below the carb and then one more tube goes (I'm not sure of it's pathway) ?

[VocalNeal]

I was looking at the pump yesterday as visibly it looked clean and it opened up with the throttle and all that. I don't understand how it could end up in the gearbox though. It runs from the tank to the pump and then one small tube goes just below the carb and then one more tube goes (I'm not sure of it's pathway) ?

Lennya,

Not a Kawasaki so mechanism won't be the same?

On my bike the drive shaft seal on the oil pump can leak and then the oil leaks through that seal, not from the tubes on the outlet side. Unless the oil level in the gearbox is rising .......that is not the problem.

Where do you park? maybe a neighbor has put some goat cheese in the gearbox.

Are you riding through floods.

[Leckyman]

Is it water cooled?

If so, it could be the water pump seal.

On my old 2 stroke the water pump shaft & gear was linked to the clutch flywheel, when the seal went, the water seeped into the gearbox.

[T_Dog]

Is it water cooled?

If so, it could be the water pump seal.

On my old 2 stroke the water pump shaft & gear was linked to the clutch flywheel, when the seal went, the water seeped into the gearbox.

Lennya, It doesn't take much water at all to create a white or yellow foam. Now you have to figure out if and how it is coming from your cooling system water. I doubt you would have a lot of condensation water collecting in only 5 months so it is most likely cooling system water.

[lennya12threh]

Interesting. It is water cooled and the water pump is located right on the gear box (I think.) I will have to check it out. Also, yes there is that other 2T hose that goes into I don't know where. I'd like to check it out but don't feel comfortable opening this area up. The tubes runs into that stator chamber and then enters in the area below the piston head behind the stator.

Could 2T make it turn white? The only reason I'm connecting the 2t to it is because of the recent incidents where there seemed to be lack of 2T after driving it hard/wot for 30 seconds. This is with the 2t screw is set almost all the way open. So either the pump is faulty or there is 2t leakage. If you warm it and drive it around moderately or even redline a couple times and then stop and rev to 10,000 rpm, the 2t emissions are satisfactory, but if you go wot through all gears and drive it hard for a minute or so, and then stop, rev, and check, then there is no visible 2t at max rpms. I will keep on the look out for rising oil levels a couple days before changing.

[T_Dog]

Interesting. It is water cooled and the water pump is located right on the gear box (I think.) I will have to check it out. Also, yes there is that other 2T hose that goes into I don't know where. I'd like to check it out but don't feel comfortable opening this area up. The tubes runs into that stator chamber and then enters in the area below the piston head behind the stator.

Could 2T make it turn white? The only reason I'm connecting the 2t to it is because of the recent incidents where there seemed to be lack of 2T after driving it hard/wot for 30 seconds. This is with the 2t screw is set almost all the way open. So either the pump is faulty or there is 2t leakage. If you warm it and drive it around moderately or even redline a couple times and then stop and rev to 10,000 rpm, the 2t emissions are satisfactory, but if you go wot through all gears and drive it hard for a minute or so, and then stop, rev, and check, then there is no visible 2t at max rpms. I will keep on the look out for rising oil levels a couple days before changing.

Like LivinLOS posted, the head gasket is supect #1. The oil and water galleries usually go through it, so if the head is loose or the head gasket fails, then the water can get to the oil or vice-versa. I had a head gasket fail on a Mitsubishi pickup and the inside of the oil filler cap was covered in yellow foam from the water in the oil. It was yellow from the anti-freeze coloring. You might just try re-torquing the head and replacing the gear box oil to see if that clears it up. Pulling the head and looking at it shouldn't be too hard. If it's okay, then suspect the water pump shaft bearing/seal.

Also, every two-stroke I ever had liked to be pushed hard at high RPM as it clears up the oil that generally will load up in the bottom of the crankcase at lower rpm. Plus the hotter temps keep the plug cleaner, etc. Keep us posted on what you find.

[lennya12threh]

Do you mean that I should take off the engine head? Do you just mean the "lid" thing on the engine block? Or do you mean take off the entire head (after taking this off you just see the piston sitting there and the rods that the head is lowered onto when re-building)?

I've seen done many times but never done it myself. I know there are two large rubber seals as well as gaskets. Would these need to be replaced if I took off the cylinder head?

I will also a Google search to verify what the head / head gasket is.

I'm just worried about taking things a part that will require new seals or gaskets if re-built because now I don't have any spares.

I will consider a major investigation and re-build parts of this bike, as I have all the tools, but when re-building I would need to be aware of any areas that need special attention, new fittings (seals,etc) or heavier/softer torque application when tightening.

[Leckyman]

On a 2 stroke, the crankcase & gearbox are seperate entities, A blown head gasket will not affect the gearbox oil..

The crank is lubricated by the fuel/oil mixture, the gearbox is not.

You'll need to drain the oil & take off the clutch cover to get to the water pump seal.

[VocalNeal]

If you warm it and drive it around moderately or even redline a couple times and then stop and rev to 10,000 rpm, the 2t emissions are satisfactory, but if you go wot through all gears and drive it hard for a minute or so, and then stop, rev, and check, then there is no visible 2t at max rpms. I will keep on the look out for rising oil levels a couple days before changing.

I would say that in normal operation and under load there should be no visible smoke. Have you lined up the marks on the oil pump by adjusting the cable?

Are you losing water from the radiator?

[LivinLOS]

Echo the above that on a stroker its unlikely that water is getting from the head / barrel / or a head gasket to the gearbox oil.. Perhaps possibly but REALLY unlikely.. My comment was that on 4 strokes thats where I would be looking.

But my money is on coolant / water getting to the oil.. So would be looking at the water pump, water pump seals, or any other way coolant could contaminate the gearbox oil.

Start with a flush and replenish.. Then monitor to see if it happens again..

[lennya12threh]

Never had any lowering water levels in months, but someone earlier said that it doesn't take much water to get a bit of white residue. The window is full of the dark brown oil, there is just a bit of white rsidue on the surface level that sometimes sticks to the window a bit.

And to vocalniel's question about the 2t pump, I'm not sure what you mean but lining up the lines. I have the pump cover off and can visibly see the pump working when you open the throttle and the cable opens up the pump. I have never noticed any lines or way to line it up, just the screw and lock screw that you can adjust to open up the 2t pump more or close it off. Currently I have the screw (that adjusts how open the pump is and also how much it is opened with the throttle) open almost as much as it can be.

I will be doing a minor investigation of the cooling system and water pump soon.

[MaiChai]

Its 90% chance that there is a leak between the water pump and crankcase and a 10% chance of a leaking gasket. You see the water pump is driven by the engine and there needs to be a seal between them; eventually the seal will leak because of the circular movement of the pump rubbing against a seal.

It has also happened to me on my TZR. White gunk in the gearbox/crankcase.

Leaking/deteriorated gaskets would do something similar. Ideally where you have water passages the gaskets should be sealed with rubber sealant to make them water tight. Most Thai engineers put this sealant on all gaskets; this is wrong since you should use grease for gaskets, and you will end up with bits of rubber in your oil. My NSR manual says use sealant only around where the water passes to the cylinder. There is a possiblity someone has changed a gasket and not used sealant around water passages or maybe a deteriorated or blown gasket leaking?

Your local Thai engineer will be familiar with replacing water seals on the pump. I suggest a rebuild here, and then if there is still a problem, investigate gasket between cylinder and crankcase or on cylinder head.

You will eventually end up with a new bike