Food Poisoning, Again.

[Richb2004v2]

I had a quite terrible case of food poisoning a couple of days ago. I've not had the experience for around three years which is not bad going really. I think I got it from a prepared western meal from Carrfore. It was particularly bad and in the end I managed to get to hospital where I was prescribed some pills and advised to drink a lot of electrolyte drinks to cure what I thought was acute back pain, but which was actually kidney dehydration. Anyway after two days I feel 90% better now. My concern is of what I would have done if my children had eaten the same meal. I wonder how their bodies would have coped. My son has already had an e.coli and salmonella dose before he was a year old. So I just wondered if anyone had any hints or tips about actions to take when one has food poisoning, and particularly what to do with children other than take then to hospital and try to drink as much water as possible.

[Donnyboy]

out of interest, what was the prepared western meal? and was it undercooked, out of date?

[Richb2004v2]

I had beef stew, ribs and a potato thing. It wasn't out of date as far as I know and tasted fine. I could be wrong of course but that was the thing I ate that the rest of my family didn't. My wife is now worried about what to give me that's safe.

[samran]

tips are (seriously)

Avoidance (not asked for, but my golden rule)

- Don't try and eat a 'western' style meal from a restuarant/vendor that likely doesn't have a clue what they are serving

For food poisioning:

- Charcol tabs seem to help shorten the length of the bout.

- Yakult if you can stomach it, to help provide balance.

- A course of anti-biotics handy which can help clear bacteria.

but, my view is get to the hospital and get hydrated there via IV if bad.

[random]

antibiotics, straight away, get Norafloxin from the pharmacy and start taking them, also make sure you rehydrate with the electrolyte drinks.

Be careful with the charcoal tablets if you are also taking the antibiotics (Norafloxin) as I think the charcoal soaks up what is in your stomach, although this is just a guess.

Edit, and I agree, if you can't keep fluids down you need the IV

Edited October 22, 2010 by random

[WarpSpeed]

Not antibiotics right away, most food born illnesses are viruses and taking antibiotics could exacerbate your illness as it kills off all bacteria in your digestive system indiscriminately good or bad, some of which will be fighting off your virus infection. This will also have the effect of extending the illness and your ability to keep down food and fluids, symptom treatment is the key and getting something that will help you to keep down food and especially liquids to prevent dehydration and aid in flushing it through your system.

There are several things that can aid with this and Ginger which is readily available here in a warm ginger tea is top of the list, but also now some medicines such as Bismol which is also here now and plenty of chicken soup which replenishes your fluids and feeds you along with saltine crackers of some sort dry or if tolerable slightly buttered toast which helps sooth your stomach and provides necessary salt which helps retain fluid..

If you don't show improvement in a day or 2 like you did then you should get some medical help and possibly antibiotics. Having been through something similar with my kids several years ago our Thai paediatrician who spent most of his career stateside and I took the approach of checking my boys stool to see if there was white blood cells in it which indicates a bacterial infection and therefore the need for antibiotics.

This test is not commonly done or thought about but it determined early on whether or not we should give antibiotics immediately instead of waiting days for a culture to grow and thus the child getting critically ill in the process..There wasn't so he treated accordingly which was mostly system support with fluids and all turned out well quite quickly..

Edited October 22, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Gippy]

Norafloxin is great stuff, I keep some at home and in the car just in case and take some at the first sign of any trouble. For children I would get them to the doctor quickly to get the dehydration dealt with, I don't mind self medicating myself but not the kids.

Watch out for the western food as well! It's the only thing that has really given me trouble. A couple of months ago I had an English style pork pie for supper, lost 8 pounds by 5am in the morning and spent the next 3 days in hospital making good use of the plastic sheets they put on the bed...

[mark45y]

I have two cookers, one Phillips and one Hitachi. They have three rice settings and slow cook, congee, soup or stew and steam. When I buy western food I put the it in the steamer tray and a bit of water in the bottom and steam the product for at least 15 minutes to re heat. Steaming is almost dry heat and very hot. It works much better than a micro wave. If I buy a roast chicken I put the chicken in one cooker's steam tray with vegetables and rice in the other cooker.

I re cook everything I buy when I get it home.

For beef stew from scratch or pork ribs, brown in the bottom of the cooker in butter. Then add water and cook for an hour or so on stew or soup setting with potatoes. Add some gravy mix and vegetables and cook for a while longer.

The cookers have closed lids so they don't smell up the apartment nor create much heat or spatter all over everything.

Steaming won't kill everything. For that you need a pressure cooker. But it gets most common bacteria. Cook your rice or any starch in one cooker and meat and vegetables in the other and you should be OK. If you really have a problem buy a pressure cooker.

[tim armstrong]

My tips: 1. Eat everything fresh.

2. Cook it while fresh (steam or stir fry in fresh oil)

3. Avoid pre-cooked anything that has sat around for a while -especially in lukewarm bainemarie display cases

4. Buy fish etc. where its stored on ice, and don't take the one on top. The same applies to frozen food on display in supermarkets.

5. Anything with fat in it has a greater chance of causing problems.

6. Drink much more bottled water than anything else.

[travelmann]

Be careful with salad I think this is where a lot of food poisioning occurs, people always think its meat, . .

As a side issue does your wife g/f if Thai know about food poisoning? ive found mine often re heated meat until I expalined about doing this, she also has little understanding of refrigeration.

http://www.highbeam....2-19135086.html

http://www.wikihow.c...-Food-Poisoning

Edited October 22, 2010 by travelmann

[dmax]

dont worry about it , i get it once a mth <deleted>, especially up country in isaan, you just have to accept it and cope with it , nothing you can do will stop you from getting it , if you eat at kfc etc chances are smaller but even the big eating places still have staff who will not be as safety concious as us farangs, they will pick their nose while handling your food even after coming out of the thai style toilet where they dont have tissue paper to clean their bums with they will sneeze over your food while serving you, ok farangs do it too but not to the same extent in my view , nobodies mentioned the amount of rats that get binto these kitchens either, plus cockroaches, not as if there are any health and safety inspectors doing the rounds

Edited October 22, 2010 by dmax

[Samuian]

Montezuma's Revenge will get you anytime anywhere...and some people are more susceptible to it, some aren't - condition, Immunsystem, the lot.

Caution is good, one can use common sense, but it won't be a guarantee, one bite, one piece at the bone not cooked, too long exposed to sunlight, by chance not cooked well enough... 100's of possibilities!

Sometimes even overheated body, and a snap ice cold drink guzzled down... will do!

Edited October 22, 2010 by Samuian

[cdnvic]

Avoidance (not asked for, but my golden rule)

- Don't try and eat a 'western' style meal from a restuarant/vendor that likely doesn't have a clue what they are serving

Also, many people move to Thailand and decide that they are restaurateurs without and real experience. I've only ever gotten sick from western food in Thailand. I also never eat at a place that the locals don't seem to be eating at.

[bubba1]

Sounds like the OP ate it even though it tasted bad. if it tastes bad then stop eating it.

[ukrules]

Sounds like the OP ate it even though it tasted bad. if it tastes bad then stop eating it.

I don't know where you get that from - in his second post he clearly says this :

It wasn't out of date as far as I know and tasted fine.

[ableguy]

Had it twice in seven years both times in hospital for six days and felt like I was dying, I was in bumrumgrad hospital BKK and thr care was superb, except for the time when a nurse approached me and said " you not have pee pee for three days if you not go now we put a cathater up your willie and it hurt very very much " worked a treat three minutes later went like a race horse.

[ableguy]

Be careful with salad I think this is where a lot of food poisioning occurs, people always think its meat, . .

As a side issue does your wife g/f if Thai know about food poisoning? ive found mine often re heated meat until I expalined about doing this, she also has little understanding of refrigeration.

http://www.highbeam....2-19135086.html

http://www.wikihow.c...-Food-Poisoning

maybe she never had a fridge.

[mark45y]

Be careful with salad I think this is where a lot of food poisioning occurs, people always think its meat, . .

As a side issue does your wife g/f if Thai know about food poisoning? ive found mine often re heated meat until I expalined about doing this, she also has little understanding of refrigeration.

http://www.highbeam....2-19135086.html

http://www.wikihow.c...-Food-Poisoning

maybe she never had a fridge.

Restaurants didn't always have refrigeration. It wasn't that long ago that beer had to be made locally because of the absence of a way to ship it from town to town. I think, offhand, Budweiser invented the first refrigerated railroad car to ship beer.

Human beings have done OK without refrigeration for most of the history of mankind.

When I first came to Asia in the 1960's very few people had a refrigerator in the home. We used to sit on the porch and send a little kid to the corner ice house to get a cold beer.

As a young child in the North woods of Canada I remember sawing blocks of ice out of the lake to put in a sawdust filled cellar to last the summer months.

Farmers wives in the South of the US cook breakfast of eggs biscuits and sausage and leave it on the table all day for the kids to snack on.

[dave111223]

I do every now and again get a serious case and i've learned to just lay in bed (not to far from the toilet) for 24 hours with 10 or so 1.5 liter bottles of water and just purge it out. Seriously just constantly drinking water.

I can normally get over it with 1 day of hel_l and one day of mild recovery.

[ukrules]

Be careful with salad I think this is where a lot of food poisioning occurs, people always think its meat, . .

As a side issue does your wife g/f if Thai know about food poisoning? ive found mine often re heated meat until I expalined about doing this, she also has little understanding of refrigeration.

There's nothing wrong with reheating meat so long as it's refrigerated once cooked. As far as I can see it's nearly always an issue with keeping food cool enough before it's reheated.

For salad there's always listeria. Salmonella can take up to two days to make you ill so it's quite possible to blame the wrong meal after a bout of sickness.

The number one source of food poisoning in the UK is thought to be rice, there's a bacteria called bacillus cereus which causes problems when it's cooked and stored at room temperature. If it's chilled straight after cooking then it won't be able to create it's toxins which once secreted into the food can't be removed by reheating, once they are present if you eat it you could be ill depending on how many there are. Of course this isn't guaranteed to happen but it can.

It's worth noting that serious cases of food poisoning often take many days to present whereas more straightforward cases like the bacillus cereus toxins found in rice will often show up within a few hours of eating the food with vomiting / diarrhoea.

There's some interesting information on the two page article linked here :

http://www.textbookofbacteriology.net/B.cereus.html

Also there's more interesting information regarding the incubation periods of different bacteria here :

http://www.hart.gov.uk/index/environment-and-planning/environmental_health/food_safety/food_poisoning_information.htm

[mark45y]

Be careful with salad I think this is where a lot of food poisioning occurs, people always think its meat, . .

As a side issue does your wife g/f if Thai know about food poisoning? ive found mine often re heated meat until I expalined about doing this, she also has little understanding of refrigeration.

There's nothing wrong with reheating meat so long as it's refrigerated once cooked. As far as I can see it's nearly always an issue with keeping food cool enough before it's reheated.

For salad there's always listeria. Salmonella can take up to two days to make you ill so it's quite possible to blame the wrong meal after a bout of sickness.

The number one source of food poisoning in the UK is thought to be rice, there's a bacteria called bacillus cereus which causes problems when it's cooked and stored at room temperature. If it's chilled straight after cooking then it won't be able to create it's toxins which once secreted into the food can't be removed by reheating, once they are present if you eat it you could be ill depending on how many there are. Of course this isn't guaranteed to happen but it can.

It's worth noting that serious cases of food poisoning often take many days to present whereas more straightforward cases like the bacillus cereus toxins found in rice will often show up within a few hours of eating the food with vomiting / diarrhoea.

There's some interesting information on the two page article linked here :

http://www.textbookofbacteriology.net/B.cereus.html

Also there's more interesting information regarding the incubation periods of different bacteria here :

http://www.hart.gov.uk/index/environment-and-planning/environmental_health/food_safety/food_poisoning_information.htm

My children refused to go shopping with me if I was buying hamburger. I would break open the sealed packages to see if the meat was red all the way through.

A lot of food packers flash chill burger and only the outer part of the burger gets chilled while the middle turns brown from bacteria growth.

I think my record, so my daughter says, is 50 packages broken in half before the head butcher came and threatened me with a cleaver. Finally they ground me a a couple of pounds fresh.

Not only do you have to chill meat but chill it quickly to get it chilled all the way through. This requires a blower to circulate the cold air around the meat in the case of roasts or any large meat product.

[travelmann]

Be careful with salad I think this is where a lot of food poisioning occurs, people always think its meat, . .

As a side issue does your wife g/f if Thai know about food poisoning? ive found mine often re heated meat until I expalined about doing this, she also has little understanding of refrigeration.

There's nothing wrong with reheating meat so long as it's refrigerated once cooked. As far as I can see it's nearly always an issue with keeping food cool enough before it's reheated.

For salad there's always listeria. Salmonella can take up to two days to make you ill so it's quite possible to blame the wrong meal after a bout of sickness.

The number one source of food poisoning in the UK is thought to be rice, there's a bacteria called bacillus cereus which causes problems when it's cooked and stored at room temperature. If it's chilled straight after cooking then it won't be able to create it's toxins which once secreted into the food can't be removed by reheating, once they are present if you eat it you could be ill depending on how many there are. Of course this isn't guaranteed to happen but it can.

It's worth noting that serious cases of food poisoning often take many days to present whereas more straightforward cases like the bacillus cereus toxins found in rice will often show up within a few hours of eating the food with vomiting / diarrhoea.

There's some interesting information on the two page article linked here :

http://www.textbooko...t/B.cereus.html

Also there's more interesting information regarding the incubation periods of different bacteria here :

http://www.hart.gov....information.htm

Yes i Should have been clearer she cooks the meat leaves it out on the worktop all day then heats it up again when she wants it, it doesnt go near a fridge once cooked.

[greasemonkey]

I will eat anything and trust my cast iron stomach to cope with it. Occasionaly though I will over do it. Like Beutiful bread rolls and Kraft cream cheese triangles from a roadside stall in laos. With hindsite I think the cream cheeses may have been in the sun, behind glass all day........

Woke the next morning feeling like Id been done over with a baseball bat, stomach churning, vision blured. Last day of visa so nothing to do but get on the bus in viang vien and get to the border. Literally crawled across the border in the blazing sun, with a very helpful thai couple carrying my luggage.

Never one to to be detered by serious illness, I returned to chiang mai, every one telling me I looked like I was dieing. After four days of this, thinking its bound to get better soon, I went to my guesthouse, in through my room door, and woke up on the floor. Must have passed out.....

Looked up symtoms in medical book, to see what antibiotics i needed, Pharmasist agreed with my diagnosis, Took the pills and by the end of next day I was right as rain.

Kind of wished I hadnt waited four days before doing something about it.

[monkfish]

I had the same problem in the first year living here.

My advice is don't take antibiotics till at least 2 days in (or in my case 3-4 days) try let your immune system deal with it and you will become immune to the bacteria.

Don't worry about the kids too much there immune systems will develop way faster than yours.

My wife eats street food almost every day and has never been ill once.

One of my worst cases of food poisoning came from a Tesco's duck! my wife eat the same thing and had no probs.

Avoid places where flies are swarming the food as you are bound to get problems, some vendors take care and cover the food or even have twirly things to keep flies off!!

[ukrules]

My children refused to go shopping with me if I was buying hamburger. I would break open the sealed packages to see if the meat was red all the way through.

Beef only turns red once it's been exposed to air, before that it's not red at all.

Check this, I always thought the same thing a few years back : http://www.fsis.usda.gov/news_&_Events/Script_Color_of_Beef/index.asp

[GuestHouse]

The OP's question has two parts

Part 1 - Relates to his recent food poisoning (first time in three years), avoidance/treatment.

Part 2 - Relates to his concerns if his children suffer food poisoning.

------

Clearly once in three years is not a high rate of illness - I'd suggest the OPs concerns here are more to do with the fact that he's just had this awful experience and I doubt that any avoidance methods are going to reduce the risks below what seems a very low incidence anyway.

Treatment when/if the illness occurs is the important issue: Here I disagree with the advice to take antibiotics - Even if you don't have medical insurance, a consultation at a hospital is dirt cheap - If the symptoms continue for more than a couple of hours get yourself to the hospital and get a check up / the right treatment for the illness you have.

Relating to the OPs concerns about his children this advice is even more important - Anything beyond an hour of vomiting or diarrhea and you should take your child directly to hospital - as the OP points out their bodies can't cope with rapid fluid loss. I'd go as far as to say that Vomiting and Diarrhea ought automatically raise the question are we going to the hospital with this?

The problem with self medication is you might be completely misreading the illness - Get to the doctors and get professional advice/treatment.

[Richb2004v2]

The OP's question has two parts

Part 1 - Relates to his recent food poisoning (first time in three years), avoidance/treatment.

Part 2 - Relates to his concerns if his children suffer food poisoning.

------

Clearly once in three years is not a high rate of illness - I'd suggest the OPs concerns here are more to do with the fact that he's just had this awful experience and I doubt that any avoidance methods are going to reduce the risks below what seems a very low incidence anyway.

Treatment when/if the illness occurs is the important issue: Here I disagree with the advice to take antibiotics - Even if you don't have medical insurance, a consultation at a hospital is dirt cheap - If the symptoms continue for more than a couple of hours get yourself to the hospital and get a check up / the right treatment for the illness you have.

Relating to the OPs concerns about his children this advice is even more important - Anything beyond an hour of vomiting or diarrhea and you should take your child directly to hospital - as the OP points out their bodies can't cope with rapid fluid loss. I'd go as far as to say that Vomiting and Diarrhea ought automatically raise the question are we going to the hospital with this?

The problem with self medication is you might be completely misreading the illness - Get to the doctors and get professional advice/treatment.

Once in three years is not too bad I agree. However the year before that I had it three times in a year. For a time my wife was feeding me KFC, MacDonalds and Pizza for most meals. I'll have to convince her not to revert to that again now.

[llso]

I had some severe bouts of food poisining in my 7 years in Thailand. Incidentally one of the worst was from a 5 star hotel buffet in Hua Hin. I know that it was from there because my co-worker got sick from it also.

I usually carry Cipro/Cifloflaxcin 500mg. and Lomide/Loperamide with me at all times. When I got the severe food poisoning from the unamed 5 star hotel I could not keep the meds down. I was drinking Sa'ponsor.

At That point it was coming out of both ends. I just kept taking meds and drinking watered down Sponsor til I got better.

In the summer of 2009 I spent over 2 months in Thailand on a job and got very sick from some Larb Moo from Suk Soi 11. I had my doubts but saw that it was being cooked.Neverthless,I got very ill.

I stayed with a friend of mine in Hua Hin and his wife is from Southern Thailand and cooked us some Southern Thai food. The problem was she kept the pot of food sitting out on the stove until the next day. I just couldn't bring myself to eat it eat the next day.

I spent a lot of time teaching my Thai wife proper food handling.

She is now a manager at a major supermarket chain in the US that makes prepared foods.

LL

[lovelomsak]

I will eat anything and trust my cast iron stomach to cope with it. Occasionaly though I will over do it. Like Beutiful bread rolls and Kraft cream cheese triangles from a roadside stall in laos. With hindsite I think the cream cheeses may have been in the sun, behind glass all day........

Woke the next morning feeling like Id been done over with a baseball bat, stomach churning, vision blured. Last day of visa so nothing to do but get on the bus in viang vien and get to the border. Literally crawled across the border in the blazing sun, with a very helpful thai couple carrying my luggage.

Never one to to be detered by serious illness, I returned to chiang mai, every one telling me I looked like I was dieing. After four days of this, thinking its bound to get better soon, I went to my guesthouse, in through my room door, and woke up on the floor. Must have passed out.....

Looked up symtoms in medical book, to see what antibiotics i needed, Pharmasist agreed with my diagnosis, Took the pills and by the end of next day I was right as rain.

Kind of wished I hadnt waited four days before doing something about it.

I am so glad to see some else thinks like me in some aspects. I too eat anything and everything if others eat it. Never been sick in Thailand. When I used to go to Mexico saw other people buy lomotil because there stomach problems are very likely to happen. Had problem once there from an iced drink sold in the market As soon as a drank it I could feel my stomach start to react barely made it back to the hotel. All my life i hung around with travellers and world sailors, few of us ever get stomach problems. Our answer was to eat local often and get adjusted to the bacteria. We felt eat local get local resistance. Worked for most of us all our lives.

[moe666]

On a couple of trips to Thailand I became sick toward the end. The last time I told myself I will eat what ever and would not get sick again. Ten trips later no problem in that area. I would recommend vit. c with your water and a probiotic for your stomach and the rest of your digestive track especially if you use antibiotics.