If Major Conflict Erupts Between Us-China

[LaoPo]

My bet is on China. Who cares about the USA.

GDP US 14.2 trillion

Japan 4.9 trillion

China 3.8 trillion

France 2.8 trillion

UK 2.6 trillion

California 1.8 trillion

Russia 1.6 trillion

Australia 1 trillion

And, ladies & Gentlemen, here is the largest show on earth.......

the WORLD'S BIGGEST DEBTOR NATIONS' SHOW:

http://www.cnbc.com/...Nations?slide=1 Follow the slide shows!

20. United States - 98.4%

External debt (as % of GDP): 98.4%

Gross external debt: $13.92 trillion

2009 GDP (est): $14.14 trillion

External debt per capita: $45,302

18. Australia - 121.9%

External debt (as % of GDP): 121.9%

Gross external debt: $1.037 trillion

2009 GDP (est): $851.1 billion

External debt per capita: $48,787

15. Germany - 176.8%

External debt (as % of GDP): 176.8%

Gross external debt: $4.97 trillion

2009 GDP (est): $2.81 trillion

External debt per capita: $60,357

9. France - 244.3%

External debt (as % of GDP): 244.3%

Gross external debt: $5.23 trillion

2009 GDP (est): $2.09 trillion

External debt per capita: $79,982

2. United Kingdom - 428.8%

External debt (as % of GDP): 428.8%

Gross external debt: $9.12 trillion

2009 GDP (est): $2.128 trillion

External debt per capita: $149,281

PS: I only posted those countries that are on Mark45's list; the other countries are not on that list.

Conclusion: there is still hope

LaoPo

[flying]

Good to realize how much consumerism accounts for GDP

That percentage is much higher for certain countries

Consuming is good work when you can get it but.....

What does a country do when they mainly consume & do not produce...

Once they no longer can afford to consume like they use to?

[cdnvic]

1 post removed for profanity.

[chaoyang]

Well, there's nearly always 'trouble' brewing between the USA and pretty much every other nation on the planet.

That's nonsense. The US, as the center of the world in the 20th Century, has wide interests that can in no way make everyone happy. The center of gravity is certainly shifting further east toward Asia, but China can't come close to filling the same space as the US in any sphere of endeavor.

Trouble, in fact, is always brewing with China. In just the last month China was in serious conflict with Japan (claims over an island), the European Union (currency manipulation), Norway (ambassador called on the carpet in Beijing for Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Chinese dissident), the US (currency manipulation). The thin-skinned Chinese are forever beating their chests and saying they are angry at someone.

Edited October 27, 2010 by chaoyang

[craigt3365]

Well, there's nearly always 'trouble' brewing between the USA and pretty much every other nation on the planet.

That's nonsense. The US, as the center of the world in the 20th Century, has wide interests that can in no way make everyone happy. The center of gravity is certainly shifting further east toward Asia, but China in no way can come close to filling the same space as the US in any sphere of endeavor.

Trouble, in fact, is always brewing with China. In just the last month China was in serious conflict with Japan (claims over an island), the European Union (currency manipulation), Norway (ambassador called on the carpet in Beijing for Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Chinese dissident), the US (currency manipulation). The thin-skinned Chinese are forever beating their chests and saying they are angry at someone.

Oh, man...those dang Chinese at it again...always causing trouble. Even though this is obviously a joke, it won't be long before lot's of people will be saying this...as you have pointed out. But until then, the American's are the world's favorite whipping boy...right or wrong...

Here is an excerpt from an article regarding pollution problems in China...relevant as China is now the #1 source of CO2 pollution. Interesting facts.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2005, there were nearly 1,000 pollution-related protests a week in China, and the numbers have only increased since. The protesters run the social gamut, from impoverished villagers to the urban middle class. The government's response has been similarly varied, ranging from killing and beating protesters to launching investigations into the worst offenders.

Spring 2005: 30,000 villagers overturn buses, beat officials, and burn squad cars after police dismantle barricades set up by elderly protesters on a road to 13 polluting chemical plants.

July 2005: Protesting a pharmaceutical plant, hundreds of residents of the booming factory province Zhejiang riot for three nights. "They are making poisonous chemicals for foreigners that the foreigners don't dare produce in their own countries," a demonstrator tells reporters. "It is better to die now, forcing them out, than to die of a slow suicide."

December 2005: In the fishing village of Dongzhou, police kill up to 30 residents protesting a new coal-fired power plant.

January 2006: During weeklong riots against preferential zoning for chemical and garment factories, 60 Guangdong Province villagers are injured and one—a 13-year-old girl—is killed by police toting automatic weapons and electric batons.

Fall 2006: Villagers from seven Gansu Province towns protest for months against local zinc and iron smelters; half of the 5,000 villagers exhibit high levels of lead in their blood.

June 2007: Up to 20,000 middle-class Chinese congregate outside the city government headquarters in Xiamen to protest a proposed chemical factory. The protesters were alerted by an anonymous cell phone text message (rumored to have been sent by Xiamen University professors and students). The city cracks down on anonymous web posting.

July 2007: Farmers near Mount Emei in Sichuan Province block a highway, demanding $1.1 million in damages from an aluminum company they claim contaminated crops. Ten are injured and five detained when police clear the road.

—Jen Phillips

[SergeiY]

Well, there's nearly always 'trouble' brewing between the USA and pretty much every other nation on the planet.

That's nonsense. The US, as the center of the world in the 20th Century, has wide interests that can in no way make everyone happy. The center of gravity is certainly shifting further east toward Asia, but China in no way can come close to filling the same space as the US in any sphere of endeavor.

Trouble, in fact, is always brewing with China. In just the last month China was in serious conflict with Japan (claims over an island), the European Union (currency manipulation), Norway (ambassador called on the carpet in Beijing for Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Chinese dissident), the US (currency manipulation). The thin-skinned Chinese are forever beating their chests and saying they are angry at someone.

Oh, man...those dang Chinese at it again...always causing trouble. Even though this is obviously a joke, it won't be long before lot's of people will be saying this...as you have pointed out. But until then, the American's are the world's favorite whipping boy...right or wrong...

Here is an excerpt from an article regarding pollution problems in China...relevant as China is now the #1 source of CO2 pollution. Interesting facts.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2005, there were nearly 1,000 pollution-related protests a week in China, and the numbers have only increased since. The protesters run the social gamut, from impoverished villagers to the urban middle class. The government's response has been similarly varied, ranging from killing and beating protesters to launching investigations into the worst offenders.

Spring 2005: 30,000 villagers overturn buses, beat officials, and burn squad cars after police dismantle barricades set up by elderly protesters on a road to 13 polluting chemical plants.

July 2005: Protesting a pharmaceutical plant, hundreds of residents of the booming factory province Zhejiang riot for three nights. "They are making poisonous chemicals for foreigners that the foreigners don't dare produce in their own countries," a demonstrator tells reporters. "It is better to die now, forcing them out, than to die of a slow suicide."

December 2005: In the fishing village of Dongzhou, police kill up to 30 residents protesting a new coal-fired power plant.

January 2006: During weeklong riots against preferential zoning for chemical and garment factories, 60 Guangdong Province villagers are injured and one—a 13-year-old girl—is killed by police toting automatic weapons and electric batons.

Fall 2006: Villagers from seven Gansu Province towns protest for months against local zinc and iron smelters; half of the 5,000 villagers exhibit high levels of lead in their blood.

June 2007: Up to 20,000 middle-class Chinese congregate outside the city government headquarters in Xiamen to protest a proposed chemical factory. The protesters were alerted by an anonymous cell phone text message (rumored to have been sent by Xiamen University professors and students). The city cracks down on anonymous web posting.

July 2007: Farmers near Mount Emei in Sichuan Province block a highway, demanding $1.1 million in damages from an aluminum company they claim contaminated crops. Ten are injured and five detained when police clear the road.

—Jen Phillips

Whats your point?

Ignorance? Xenophobia?

Do you need some war crimes listed of the last 10 years committed by American forces?

[craigt3365]

Well, there's nearly always 'trouble' brewing between the USA and pretty much every other nation on the planet.

That's nonsense. The US, as the center of the world in the 20th Century, has wide interests that can in no way make everyone happy. The center of gravity is certainly shifting further east toward Asia, but China in no way can come close to filling the same space as the US in any sphere of endeavor.

Trouble, in fact, is always brewing with China. In just the last month China was in serious conflict with Japan (claims over an island), the European Union (currency manipulation), Norway (ambassador called on the carpet in Beijing for Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Chinese dissident), the US (currency manipulation). The thin-skinned Chinese are forever beating their chests and saying they are angry at someone.

Oh, man...those dang Chinese at it again...always causing trouble. Even though this is obviously a joke, it won't be long before lot's of people will be saying this...as you have pointed out. But until then, the American's are the world's favorite whipping boy...right or wrong...

Here is an excerpt from an article regarding pollution problems in China...relevant as China is now the #1 source of CO2 pollution. Interesting facts.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2005, there were nearly 1,000 pollution-related protests a week in China, and the numbers have only increased since. The protesters run the social gamut, from impoverished villagers to the urban middle class. The government's response has been similarly varied, ranging from killing and beating protesters to launching investigations into the worst offenders.

Spring 2005: 30,000 villagers overturn buses, beat officials, and burn squad cars after police dismantle barricades set up by elderly protesters on a road to 13 polluting chemical plants.

July 2005: Protesting a pharmaceutical plant, hundreds of residents of the booming factory province Zhejiang riot for three nights. "They are making poisonous chemicals for foreigners that the foreigners don't dare produce in their own countries," a demonstrator tells reporters. "It is better to die now, forcing them out, than to die of a slow suicide."

December 2005: In the fishing village of Dongzhou, police kill up to 30 residents protesting a new coal-fired power plant.

January 2006: During weeklong riots against preferential zoning for chemical and garment factories, 60 Guangdong Province villagers are injured and one—a 13-year-old girl—is killed by police toting automatic weapons and electric batons.

Fall 2006: Villagers from seven Gansu Province towns protest for months against local zinc and iron smelters; half of the 5,000 villagers exhibit high levels of lead in their blood.

June 2007: Up to 20,000 middle-class Chinese congregate outside the city government headquarters in Xiamen to protest a proposed chemical factory. The protesters were alerted by an anonymous cell phone text message (rumored to have been sent by Xiamen University professors and students). The city cracks down on anonymous web posting.

July 2007: Farmers near Mount Emei in Sichuan Province block a highway, demanding $1.1 million in damages from an aluminum company they claim contaminated crops. Ten are injured and five detained when police clear the road.

—Jen Phillips

Whats your point?

Ignorance? Xenophobia?

Do you need some war crimes listed of the last 10 years committed by American forces?

I'm not sure what your point is either...pollution is a major source of conflict with China. Which is related to the topic. Your's is

[chaoyang]

Whats your point?

Ignorance? Xenophobia?

Do you need some war crimes listed of the last 10 years committed by American forces?

Crimes against humanity?

Client states of China:

*North Korea

*Burma

*Sudan

Not to mention the brutality against its own people -- more people than other countries kill and torture in foreign wars.

What's your point except the usual, convenient anti-American rubbish?

Edited October 27, 2010 by chaoyang

[SergeiY]

Oh, man...those dang Chinese at it again...always causing trouble. Even though this is obviously a joke, it won't be long before lot's of people will be saying this...as you have pointed out. But until then, the American's are the world's favorite whipping boy...right or wrong...

Here is an excerpt from an article regarding pollution problems in China...relevant as China is now the #1 source of CO2 pollution. Interesting facts.

...

Whats your point?

Ignorance? Xenophobia?

Do you need some war crimes listed of the last 10 years committed by American forces?

I'm not sure what your point is either...pollution is a major source of conflict with China. Which is related to the topic. Your's is

You are full of bias and want to bitch about China.

That could be easily done about the USA too - why would this be off topic?

For CO₂ pollution. you may wanna look at some chart that shows the data per capita by country. then you get some interesting facts.

[IanForbes]

I don't see any military conflict happening between China and the US. Both countries are too smart to let it happen... just as it didn't happen in Russia. The political leaders get far more by letting commerce line their personal pockets. The Chinese leaders are communist in name only. They still understand the benefits of commercial capitalism. I saw it all play out in Japan after the war. Japanese businessmen started producing high quality products that the western societies wanted, and sold them at a fraction of the cost of similar products produced in Germany and Switzerland. Eventually, the Japanese workers wages increased to a point where Japan had to go off shore to get cheap labour. South Korea did the same. So has Vietnam. It's only in countries with dictators like in North Korea and Burma where their countries haven't progressed. India is booming, but unfortunately they haven't limited their birth rate.

[SergeiY]

Crimes against humanity?

Client states of China:

*North Korea

*Burma

*Sudan

Not to mention the brutality against its own people -- more people than other countries kill and torture in foreign wars.

What's your point except the usual, convenient anti-American rubbish?

For the case of North Korea and Myanmar, you may wanna check who is amongst their biggest trading partners beside China. then you maybe get an idea how the question: USA vs China - where does Thailand stand? can be answered.

[craigt3365]

Whats your point?

Ignorance? Xenophobia?

Do you need some war crimes listed of the last 10 years committed by American forces?

I'm not sure what your point is either...pollution is a major source of conflict with China. Which is related to the topic. Your's is

You are full of bias and want to bitch about China.

That could be easily done about the USA too - why would this be off topic?

For CO₂ pollution. you may wanna look at some chart that shows the data per capita by country. then you get some interesting facts.

Your kidding!?!?!?! All you do is bitch about the US. Show me one post where you have not. You just like to slag off everybody...it gets old. You must have a very sad life.

Regarding CO2, China is #1 in total. Check out this link before replying. US CO2 pollution per capita is high for sure, but Qatar is #1. US is #4. Now, care to slag off on Qatar? That would show some class for sure....

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/env_co2_emi_percap-environment-co2-emissions-per-capita

[chaoyang]

Crimes against humanity?

Client states of China:

*North Korea

*Burma

*Sudan

Not to mention the brutality against its own people -- more people than other countries kill and torture in foreign wars.

What's your point except the usual, convenient anti-American rubbish?

For the case of North Korea and Myanmar, you may wanna check who is amongst their biggest trading partners beside China. then you maybe get an idea how the question: USA vs China - where does Thailand stand? can be answered.

Thailand has natural, extensive trade with Burma because it is a neighboring country. Tanks, trucks,weapons and the rest needed to keep the ruling junta in Burma in power come from China.

[PlanetX]

There is no China versus USA

Its Elites against everyone else

The major banks, multinational corporations and political elite continue to increase their wealth in both counties as the poor continue to suffer

The US will take a stance against China on one thing and do the same thing back home

Internet censorship is a perfect example of this

Dont be so quick to count out war based on logic and reason -- both countries would love to depopulate the world as has been mentioned by several elitist members of both societies

The US has made it very clear that their economic policies are not designed to help the common citizen or mass global population

As long as the poor will fight the wars to make the rich richer, sabres will always rattle on television while deals are made behind closed doors

I agree that keynesian economics is a poor economic system but the real harm seems to be in the willfull dumbing down of society

Edited October 27, 2010 by PlanetX

[IanForbes]

Thailand has natural, extensive trade with Burma because it is a neighboring country. Tanks, trucks,weapons and the rest needed to keep the ruling junta in Burma in power come from China.

This is true. China likes a buffer zone around them. It's like the Gaza strip between Israel and Palistine. China doesn't care what happens to Korea or Burma. They would be canon fodder in any sort of conflict. The Himalayan Mountains form the southern safety border between India and China. That leaves only Russia to the north. China is fairly well protected physically. There is no easy access.

[chaoyang]

Thailand has natural, extensive trade with Burma because it is a neighboring country. Tanks, trucks,weapons and the rest needed to keep the ruling junta in Burma in power come from China.

This is true. China likes a buffer zone around them. It's like the Gaza strip between Israel and Palistine. China doesn't care what happens to Korea or Burma. They would be canon fodder in any sort of conflict. The Himalayan Mountains form the southern safety border between India and China. That leaves only Russia to the north. China is fairly well protected physically. There is no easy access.

China wants economic domination, not military occupation. The junta in Burma serves their purpose because the country has rich resources and few other countries will do business with them. Tailor made for the shadowy way the Chinese do things. I doubt China is concerned with tanks rolling in from a conquering army. Its all about influence and trade.

[craigt3365]

Thailand has natural, extensive trade with Burma because it is a neighboring country. Tanks, trucks,weapons and the rest needed to keep the ruling junta in Burma in power come from China.

This is true. China likes a buffer zone around them. It's like the Gaza strip between Israel and Palistine. China doesn't care what happens to Korea or Burma. They would be canon fodder in any sort of conflict. The Himalayan Mountains form the southern safety border between India and China. That leaves only Russia to the north. China is fairly well protected physically. There is no easy access.

China wants economic domination, not military occupation. The junta in Burma serves their purpose because the country has rich resources and few other countries will do business with them. Tailor made for the shadowy way the Chinese do things. I doubt China is concerned with tanks rolling in from a conquering army. Its all about influence and trade.

For sure. That's one thing you have to admire about the Chinese...they are good businessmen. They know how to make a buck....or is that Renminbi...

[Naam]

Thailand has natural, extensive trade with Burma because it is a neighboring country. Tanks, trucks,weapons and the rest needed to keep the ruling junta in Burma in power come from China.

This is true. China likes a buffer zone around them. It's like the Gaza strip between Israel and Palistine. China doesn't care what happens to Korea or Burma. They would be canon fodder in any sort of conflict. The Himalayan Mountains form the southern safety border between India and China. That leaves only Russia to the north. China is fairly well protected physically. There is no easy access.