Taking In Someone Else's Child

[Tamarind]

Hi, I am new here. My new wife and I are at odd's end with regards to an issue we have.

My wife's mother wants us to take in her step-son should anything happen to her. She wants my wife to have custody of the boy should she pass on. My wife will be made the trustee of her estate on the demise of the mother and one of the conditions is that the boy moves in with us.

The recent London bombings have scared her. The boy's father is alive but is an alcoholic and alleged abuser so the boy has been placed with my wife's mother. The kid is 11 and a spoilt brat.

Anyway, I am NOT KEEN on the idea at all. I am just not ready for the responsibilites involved and have relayed this to wife and mother.

Moreover, my wife has told me she does not want kids which I am fine with but seeing that she wants to take in this boy, I feel betrayed. I understand her obligations to her mother but this is something I do not want to do.

I have told them so and they are very surprised at my reaction. They think I am being unreasonable and selfish. I have suggested boarding school as a condition but they are against it.

I have a feeling that my relationship with my wife will be extremely strained with regards to this. Wife is close to mother as she is an only child and mother really knows how to tug at her heart strings. Quite manipulative MIL is, unfortunately wife does not see that at all.

Any suggestions or opinions is much appreciated. All parties are not Thai.

Edited August 2, 2005 by Tamarind

[Neeranam]

All parties are Brits.

So why ask expats in Thailand?

All parties are not Thai.

A sudden change.

[Tamarind]

Neeranam, FYI there are non-Thai members here on this forum. Does one have to be Thai to actually post here??

Wife and I reside and work in Thailand.

Perhaps you should curb you sarcasm and cut a little slack to newbies. I wanted advice and opinion, not non-related and offtopic postings.

Edited August 2, 2005 by Tamarind

[Neeranam]

Neeranam, FYI there are non-Thai members here on this forum. Does one have to be Thai to actually post here??

Wife and I reside and work in Thailand.

Perhaps you should curb you sarcasm and cut a little slack to newbies. I wanted advice and opinion, not non-related and offtopic postings.

Very sorry, I thought all were in the UK, and not Thai.

So no Thais but you and your wife stay in Thailand.

I would say, "no way" to bringing up my MIL's step son. Absolutely, no way!!!!

However, if the MIL died and the step-son had nowhere to go, I don't know.

Maybe you should say OK for now and hope the MIL lives for a few more years, when the boy will be able to look after himself.

How would this boy feel about moving to Thailand?

How would his father feel?

If he came here, remember International schools would cost you about 10,000 pounds a year.

[Tamarind]

No problem Neeranam, perhaps I should have made myself clearer.

Anyway, my sentiments exactly to what you said. I am just not prepared nor willing to take on another man's child.

Is education only GBP10,000 per year in TH? Is that for an 11 year old and will that go up as the kid gets older? MIL's estate will cover nearly all of the kid's fees then. However there are other needs (food, clothing, computers, entertainment etc) to be accounted for.

Wife and I earn a good living but I am not prepared to sacrifice my happiness, life and freedom for someone else's kid. However, wife does not see that. Wife sees it as her obligation to her mother's "last wish". I understand her situation but I cannot bring myself to accept this.

If MIL dies, boy really has no where to go. Real mother is dead, no uncles/relatives/grandparents. There is one aunt but she is a very bad role model and has 6 kids of her own to support.

Boy's father has lost custody so I doubt he has much top say in this. However, I am not sure whether things would change if mother dies. The boy is his and seeing that there is money involved, he may pretend to sober up and fight for custody.

Mother says (apparently) that the boy wants to live with us if mother dies. Boy has never been to Thailand so perhaps he does not know the culture difference and change.

Would the courts really grant the boy what he wants, he is only 11.

However, they way I see it, I lose either way. Saying Yes means I have to stress and pray hard that MIL does not die. If she does, it's all downhill from there anyway.

Saying NO may mean I am the mean bastard and may cause resentment from wife. We never know with women.

Furthermore, if we say no and something bad happens to the boy, wife may blame me and say "see, if we had taken him in, this would not have happened". Hence another huge argument.

We are already arguing about this as it is and cannot see eye to eye on it. Some may ask me to divorce the wife, but I really do love her and I know she does too foregoing this incident.

I am at wits end what to do here and I would really appreciate some good advice on how to avoid this.

Edited August 2, 2005 by Tamarind

[malcolminthemiddle]

A similar situation happened within my family. A cousin asked my Dad to be the guardian of her son. She had had the baby late in life and consequently was concerned that she and her husband would die before the son had fully grown up. Another complication was that the son was slightly retarded, possibly the consequence of being born to an older Mum.

My Dad, politely declined without giving his reasons which he considered to be his own.

Sounds like you should do the same.

[Tarragona]

To you he's just "someone else's kid" but he may mean more than that to your wife. And you said it - if MIL dies the boy really has nowhere to go.

What are your wife's objections to him going to boarding school in England? Many would say that would be in his long-term interests anyway. Bring him out to Thailand in the holidays. That may still disturb you but would be a smaller sacrifice.

Is MIL in poor health? As Neeranam said it's not so many more years before he'll be able to look out for himself.

[Tamarind]

Hi MIM, thanks for your post.

Its pretty easy for me to say NO.

Wife can't bring herself to say NO though, she said it is her obligation to her mum. Wife has helped bring up the boy since he was 2 so she has emotional attachment/love for the boy too. She said she would feel dreadful if something happened to him. Moreover, I doubt MIL would ever speak to wife again. Wife is an only child with no other living relatives either so that would mean losing her family (what's left of it). MIL knows my answer and I think "hates" me for it. She knows the reaon wife has not said a firm yes is because of me. MIL says she wants an answer as she wants to make it legal asap.

As I may have mentioned, MIL is a very manipulative women who knows "which buttons to push and which strings to tug at". Wife is a good woman with a very soft heart.......

[Tamarind]

What are your wife's objections to him going to boarding school in England? Many would say that would be in his long-term interests anyway. Bring him out to Thailand in the holidays. That may still disturb you but would be a smaller sacrifice.

Is MIL in poor health? As Neeranam said it's not so many more years before he'll be able to look out for himself.

Wife thinks boarding school is not a very healthy thing for a child. She may be open to if there is no other choice. However MIL is against it and wants to state in the "legal document" that boy has to live with us in order for wife to be executor of her estate/will. We need that money if the boy is to live with us.

MIL is not in poor health but the recent London bombings scared her. I doubt they are going to bomb Sheffield (where she lives).

Edited August 2, 2005 by Tamarind

[minbari73]

A similar situation happened within my family. A cousin asked my Dad to be the guardian of her son. She had had the baby late in life and consequently was concerned that she and her husband would die before the son had fully grown up. Another complication was that the son was slightly retarded, possibly the consequence of being born to an older Mum.

My Dad, politely declined without giving his reasons which he considered to be his own.

Sounds like you should do the same.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would that strain things out of proportion?

How much of a guarantee is there "something will happen" to the step-mother? It sounds to me you're making a big deal out of something that hasn't happened yet. Unless there's something I missed, you didn't say the mother was dying anytime soon, unless she's hoping for a stray terrorist bomb and the miniscule chance of coming in contact with it. Obviously, you're worried about the sudden need to be a father to a brat that isn't yours. Understandable, but given the unlikelyhood of this rogue weaponry taking out MIL, is this much of a risk? To keep the peace with your lovely new wife, I would go along with this for the time being. Marriage is about compromise, and there was no guarantee in the marriage certificate that you would expect your wife to give up family committments, was there?

If something does happen to mum in the next few hours, adjust.

[Kerryd]

I'm not married and don't have any children (I hope), but in my opinion, I would run from this as fast as I could.

I've seen spoiled brats of friends of mine. One of them was so bad (at 12 years old) she got her step-father arrested and charged for sexual abuse, even though he never touched her.

Why did she lie ? He told her to go to bed (on a school night) before she wanted to.

Even though there was no evidence of any kind of abuse, it was her word against his, and the authorities (and her mom of course) believed the girl. It ruined the guy's reputation (and his military career), but by the time the truth finally comes out, it's too late, and the girl gets away with it.

I know this is just one example, but I don't want to write a book about all the instances I've witnessed concerning other people's kids. I've seen enough examples to make me sure that I don't want kids of my own though.

It's a sticky situation, especially when they are at that age, and have spent that long under a different set of standards (discipline, privileges, ect). It would be very difficult to "re-train" a child to live under your rules, especially in this day and age.

It's probably for those reasons that most people prefer to adopt babies, not older children.

I hope for your sake that a different alternative comes about, and 5 years down the road you'll be able to look at your wife and say "See, I told you so" !

[Tamarind]

Thanks for the posts guys.

As for accepting it, well I am not the sort of person who will say Yes and do not mean it just to please others. Not my style.

How much of a guarantee is there "something will happen" to the step-mother? It sounds to me you're making a big deal out of something that hasn't happened yet.

No guarantee it cannot happen either is there? I have a friend who was run over by a lorry crossing the road just last month, he was 28. We cannot guarantee anything, it is not in our hands. I am not willing to take that risk by saying YES. Yes means you are bound by it. I am just not ready.

Well, I can ask them the same thing. If it is not likely to happen, why push for it?? Can they ask me again in 5 years? Perhaps I will be ready then.

Marriage is about compromise, and there was no guarantee in the marriage certificate that you would expect your wife to give up family committments, was there?

I agree. My compromise was that the boy goes to boarding school and visits during holidays. That came as a NO....so where is their compromise? Goes both ways doesn't it?

[snoophound]

yep,pay the fees if you can,its the usual costly way out to appease family.

Not trying to sound negative but if you dont want the boy living with you its prob the best.

Thais are remarkable when it comes to someone elses kid...prob care more than their own.

Thanks for the posts guys.

As for accepting it, well I am not the sort of person who will say Yes and do not mean it just to please others. Not my style.

How much of a guarantee is there "something will happen" to the step-mother? It sounds to me you're making a big deal out of something that hasn't happened yet.

No guarantee it cannot happen either is there? I have a friend who was run over by a lorry crossing the road just last month, he was 28. We cannot guarantee anything, it is not in our hands. I am not willing to take that risk by saying YES. Yes means you are bound by it. I am just not ready.

Well, I can ask them the same thing. If it is not likely to happen, why push for it?? Can they ask me again in 5 years? Perhaps I will be ready then.

Marriage is about compromise, and there was no guarantee in the marriage certificate that you would expect your wife to give up family committments, was there?

I agree. My compromise was that the boy goes to boarding school and visits during holidays. That came as a NO....so where is their compromise? Goes both ways doesn't it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Khutan]

<snip>My wife's mother wants us to take in her step-son<snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where is the original mother ? You have talked a-plenty about the father, but not the biological mother.

[bkkexplorer]

Tamarind,

What would you do if you were in your wife's shoes? If your mum or sister (if you have one) had a kid and god forbid something happened and asked you to be their guardian.

I guess different people would have different answers because of their initial relationship to the person asking for the 'favour'. Someone who's had a good relationship with their mum, would probably be obligated to some extend to help out if they didn't genuinely want to. Anther party who had a bad relationship could simply tell them NO.

It takes a big heart to do something like this and you are in this situation for a reason. This kid that you speak about might be a spoilt brat but I believe this has alot to do with his upbringing. You probably can't change him but any positive influence he has in his life will at least give him a chance. If yuor wife does truly care about him, what she's asking is not all that unreasonable . And if you do decide to bring him into your home, welcome him with all your heart. Don't do it because you feel you are pressured into it.

Also, you are the boss. Lay down rules (and stick to it) that will steer him in the right direction. Don't be fooled,this is not easy. Whatever you decide, good luck.

[Tamarind]

Mattnich, biological mother passed away giving birth to him.

And if you do decide to bring him into your home, welcome him with all your heart. Don't do it because you feel you are pressured into it.

bkkexplorer, to welcome him warmly in my house, I cannot do. Sorry. The only way he will get into the house is if I am under pressure. I am not a selfish person, but I will not be a hypocrite either. I may even grow to resent my wife if she forces me to.

What would you do if you were in your wife's shoes? If your mum or sister (if you have one) had a kid and god forbid something happened and asked you to be their guardian.

It is always easy to say YES or decide if one is not in the situation.

Part of me wants to do this for my wife but it will really make me unhappy. I know the boy and his ways. Wife and MIL cannot see it as they are the one who spoil him and give him what he wants.

I reiterate, I am not ready nor prepared to do this, not willingly anyway.

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated. I am not sure what to do yet but I am not going to give in willingly.

[Rags]

"...Wife thinks boarding school is not a very healthy thing for a child. She may be open to if there is no other choice. However MIL is against it and wants to state in the "legal document" that boy has to live with us in order for wife to be executor of her estate/will. We need that money if the boy is to live with us...."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Reading between the lines a bit here, but is this a big issue because the MIL is loaded?

Is she using the boy as a pawn - unless you take the boy in, you guys will be excluded from a healthy chunk of inheritance....?

Rags

[Thetyim]

tamarind,

This is the most difficult question I have seen posted on this forum

and very hard to give advice. I don't know what to say.

Let me say this which might help you .

The MIL probably does not want him to go to a boarding school because he cannot sleep alone. This is VERY common with thais.

If he lives in your house your wife might end up sleeping with the boy every night. I do not mean this in any sexual way just that he can't sleep alone.

[Tamarind]

Reading between the lines a bit here, but is this a big issue because the MIL is loaded?

MIL is not loaded at all. The only inheritance the boy will get is a house worth about GBP150,000. No money will come to us at all, not that it matters as we are quite well off as it is. My wife will be the trustee of the boy's inheritance until he turns 18. Money is not an issue here.

Thetyim, perhaps you should read the whole thread again properly, WE ARE ALL NOT THAIS. We do not sleep with our kids!

Edited August 3, 2005 by Tamarind

[MikeRay]

I wonder if your wife will only be the trustee and aunt and you guys stay in Thailand on which visa will the boy be in Thailand?The difficulties in getting a visa for the boy, as he´s not adopted and you will stay in Thailand might sort things for you out.

Edited August 4, 2005 by MikeRay

[dvk1951]

MikeRay might just have a 'solution' for you. Might I suggest that you investigate the 'legal' aspects of bringing a non-related child into Thailand for a long term duration. You just may find that it is not possible and thus could tell the wife that even if you wanted to take the boy in, it is not leagally possible. Really this is something that should be addressed now, despite the wills and wishes, the laws of Thailand may prohibit the fulfilling the MIL's wishes.

[Tamarind]

Hi guys, thanks again for the post.

I have just been called every foul name in the book by MIL as she is now well aware I do not want to do this. MIL said I was selfish, inconsiderate and that I am not family. She blames me for everything. Using the same sob excuse of making her son upset. No one asked her to tell her son, a mere child about it. She did it on her own. Wife is at a loss to what to do.

I think it is rather unfair of MIL to assume we will take in the boy without hesitation without considering the consequences, advantages, disadvantages and etc. I mean, bringing up a child is serious business. We are not talking about a puppy where you can give it back. Wife would not anyway.

We will not be Thailand after this year. I have already my transfer papers back to Europe (not UK) next year for Feb 2006. So, a visa for TH would not be an issue.

Since we are all of EU nationality, visas should not be required to live in any EU country,

Edited August 5, 2005 by Tamarind

[seonai]

Tamarind - I agree with Bkkexplorer. It might be fun!!!! Who knows you might even get to love each other. What nationality is he?

I have an 11 year old boy. It's a difficult age but also very much fun and learning. If he was at Int school here he would soon meet loads of friends and other parents who would take him out for weekends etc. You personal freedon would only be disturbed when you and your wife want to be private etc.

I understand your feelings but... I feel you've built up a WALL about this before it even starts. It's also very tied up with who's going to win, you or MIL. Consider the implications carefully.

Take the bot away for a weekend fishing first. See how you get on.

I feel for him.

Seonai

[seonai]

"I am not sure what to do yet but I am not going to give in willingly."

This is a complete contradiction Tamarid !!!!!! Oh and don't listen to Thetyim...... all Thais do not sleep with their children at this age.

Seonai

[Tamarind]

seonai, the boy is British. I have not put up a wall. I was never keen on the boy right from the start when we met even without knowing I may have to let him in my house.

He gets what he wants, when he wants and knows how to get things too. I would say he is an expert. He uses the pitiful "oh nobody wants me" line or look if he does not get what he wants. MIL and wife gives in to him all the time! Hence, they cannot see it. Sometimes I think MIL and wife are Asians, the way the act.

Horrible little fella. Imagine him being a teenager gives me the shudders! Teenage years are the worst.

I doubt I would grow to love the boy as it is because of him that we are having so much problems. MIL is not budging. She blames me. I pity my wife's situation but I know for a fact that I will be very unhappy and may grow to resent her later.

I feel that if there is no compromise, no one is going to win. I am willing to compromise but MIL says she wants it her way only.

Edited August 6, 2005 by Tamarind