Thai-English Schools Worry Lack Of Native Speakers

[webfact]

EDUCATION

Popularity of English classes raise fears

By CHULARAT SAENGPASSA

THE NATION

State schools worry lack of native speakers may reduce quality of courses if many more institutions are allowed to run such classes

The number of Thai-English schools in the country has risen to 331 in response to growing demand. And 60 more schools are seeking approval for plans to run an English programme or mini-English programme.

While students of current bilingual programmes have demonstrated satisfactory qualities including fine academic performances and self-confidence, the rising popularity of bilingual schools has raised concerns as to whether the quality will drop.

A key concern is that the pool of qualified native English speakers in Thailand is very limited. This is partly because remuneration packages for teaching foreigners are much higher in Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan.

Foreigners who agree to accept a lower wage for teaching jobs are often underqualified.

"We have found that hundreds of native speakers have used fake certificates in applying for teaching jobs," St Stephen's International School director Wannasarn Worakij disclosed.

He expressed concerns at the quality of foreign teachers at a recent seminar.

Schools conducting English programmes (EP) use English as the language of instruction at least 15 hours a week. Those with a mini English programme (MEP), meanwhile, conduct classes in English for between eight and 14 hours a week.

The Education Ministry has required that only native speakers with good academic credentials be recruited for schools with the EP/MEP.

Relevant schools have followed the rule strictly but that does not mean all English-speaking teachers really have appropriate qualifications.

According to a study by the Office of Basic Education Commission (Obec), it is difficult for each school to check the credentials of foreign applicants by themselves. The researcher recommended that a key agency under the Education Ministry help with this issue.

The survey also said the shortage of quality foreign teachers at state bilingual schools was caused by the ceiling on foreign teachers' salaries. The government requires that schools pay no more than Bt35,000 a month to each foreign teacher.

"Great teachers deserve to get high pay," the survey said.

Bilingual schools already struggle to find qualified foreign candidates. So if the number of schools with English or mini-English programmes rises further, it will be even more difficult to get qualified native speakers.

Dr Wattanaporn Ra-ngubtookm who heads Obec English Language Institute, said when the demand for foreign teaching staff grows, the issue of quality will arise.

"Schools will not have much choice because the pool of native speakers is limited," she pointed out.

Wattanaporn is familiar with the matter because her institute has the job of checking the readiness of schools that want to launch English programmes.

"Many schools don't get the green light because they are unable to meet prescribed criteria, in particular about the teachers' qualifications," she revealed.

The Education Ministry has now allowed qualified schools to open EP/MEP at both primary- and secondary-education levels.

The MEP tuition fee is just Bt17,500 per semester, a rate much cheaper than the fee collected by schools with the English programme (EP) and international schools.

The EP tuition fee costs up to Bt35,000 a semester.

Wattanaporn said these rates were very cheap when compared with the fee charged by international schools.

"EP/MEP is an interesting alternative for parents who want their children to use English fluently but cannot afford to send their children to international schools," she said.

And schools with EP/MEP still provides a Thai-style environment, so students do not adopt "Western values".

These factors have made schools with EP/MEP increasing popular.

The trend, however, has raised concerns among relevant authorities that they must do something now to ensure the quality of |these English programmes doesn't drop.

An executive at a famous Bangkok-based school, which also offers EP, believed the Education Ministry should raise the ceiling on the salary that foreign teachers can be paid to make it easier for schools to attract good teachers.

"We also want to attract more capable native speakers," she said, on condition that her name was not disclosed.

She said her school's EP programme was profitable and could, in fact, offer higher pay to native speakers. However, due to state regulations, the financial profit had to be submitted to the Education Ministry.

"Now, we have to keep our EP quality by relying on money from the parents' association."

She revealed that her school had offered "fringe benefits" of at least Bt55,000 a month to top-class English teachers. This explained why its EP standard was high.

No of schools with English programme (EP)

Supervising agencies Level Total

Primary / Secondary / General / Vocational

OBEC 61 / 116 / - / - 177

OPEC - / - / 148 / 6 154

Schools seeking approval to start EP and mini-English programmes (MEP)

Level EP MEP Total

Secondary 2 33 35

Primary 6 19 25

Total 8 52 60

SOURCE: OFFICE OF BASIC EDUCATION COMMISSION

-- The Nation 2010-11-01

[siampolee]

I often wonder why we see non native English speakers employed in schools to teach English.

55,000 a month for a qualified English or general class teacher ?

Good qualified staff do not even get out of bed for that salary.

And schools with EP/MEP still provides a Thai-style environment, so students do not adopt "Western values".

Therein lies the cause of failure, one needs to understand the culture of the language and the adoption of those Western values so as one can actually enhance the use of the language one is learning so as to become proficient in the use of the target language.

Teachers from other cultures and countries are expected to jump through hoops via the T.C.T.

Sad to say the quality of the T.C.T. Thai lecturers is very poor, a poor command of English an inability or reluctance to actually answer question when posed as it is seen as an insult to the lecturers ability and of course standing.The idea of teaching is based on an information exchange system, that information which a lecturer gives out returns as an answer or a question to actually drive home the salient point.

The ability to dance, the inevitable question do you like Thai food the inane conversations, questions that are indeed far removed from the reality of the classroom all combine to make the T.C.T. course even unworthy of being implemented in a kindergarten programme.

Yet again another example of ''squeeze as much money out of a foreigner as you can'' mindset.

Edited November 1, 2010 by siampolee

[Artisi]

I often wonder why we see non native English speakers employed in schools to teach English.

55,000 a month for a qualified English or general class teacher ?

Good qualified staff do not even get out of bed for that salary.

And schools with EP/MEP still provides a Thai-style environment, so students do not adopt "Western values".

Therein lies the cause of failure, one needs to understand the culture of the language and the adoption of those Western values so as one can actually enhance the use of the language one is learning so as to become proficient in the use of the target language.

Teachers from other cultures and countries are expected to jump through hoops via the T.C.T.

Sad to say the quality of the T.C.T. Thai lecturers is very poor, a poor command of English an inability or reluctance to actually answer question when posed as it is seen as an insult to the lecturers ability and of course standing.The idea of teaching is based on an information exchange system, that information which a lecturer gives out returns as an answer or a question to actually drive home the salient point.

The ability to dance, the inevitable question do you like Thai food the inane conversations, questions that are indeed far removed from the reality of the classroom all combine to make the T.C.T. course even unworthy of being implemented in a kindergarten programme.

Yet again another example of ''squeeze as much money out of a foreigner as you can'' mindset.

55,000 per month, please tell me where. I know of some universities that only pay 25, 000 to start and then really lousy yearly increases - after 6 /7 years you might be lucky to be paid 35,000.

[bangon04]

[

And schools with EP/MEP still provides a Thai-style environment, so students do not adopt "Western values".

Yes let's be clear about this - the priority is to teach children to follow their elders and take their place in the correct order of Thai society.

It is especially important to teach English language in a vacuum, thus ensuring that children do not absorb any nasty habits such as questioning, discerning, exploring, etc.

In this way we can preserve order so that only the children of the rich and powerful can be educated abroad as usual, or at least the middle class upstarts can be confined to their international schools with their "Western Values".

Nobody mentions "Chinese Values" do they?

[chantorn]

"A key concern is that the pool of qualified native English speakers in Thailand is very limited"

- Not a concern. A big cocern only if the native Thai speakers in Thailand is very limited.

"We have found that hundreds of native speakers have used fake certificates in applying for teaching jobs,"

- In Kao San Road such cert is being sold openly on the street at 200 Baht a piece. Also fake driving license, fake student card, fake press ID, etc.

[virtualtraveller]

The problem as I see it is that the educators are try to make the system 'clever' without making 'clever' decisions. This is symptomatic of Thailand in general, policy makers aren't necessarily the best people for the job, just the most senior. They are often side-tracked by other values, prioritised over improving the methodology of teaching.

Forget the whole English language argument until you can get the general quality of education raised, for the same rules apply to both. They're spiltting hairs about the 'qualification' of backpacker types trying to teach English, when their own Thai teachers (of English or anything else) are often poor. This is pride thing, A teacher who's been to university and teacher training college for three years and has several years experience gets less than 10,000 baht. A non-experienced, non qualified foreigner strolls in and expects 20,000 baht, you can imagine how all the Thais feel. But the truth they can't see, is that the foreigner, with a uni degree and a bit of intelligence, might be doing a more dynamic and better job of instilling English in the students. It's the whole grammar, verses spoken word, argument. Sometimes the Thai educators just don't get it.

The farangs don't get it either. Thais place enormous value on a 'certificate' (a real one), plus a photo of your presentability, whether you're competent or not is less important. So, you have quite a few 'curved balls' here in trying to introduce English teachers to the system, and it needs some creativity.

1. Lots of farangs want to come and live here, teaching is one way, but fulfilling the criteria to get a visa are difficult, so get creative. Why not make all foreigner teachers apply for a licence. If they are properly qualified as teachers they get issued a licence, and are free to enter the job market (private schools etc), if they have a TEFL or some valid experience they get a licence but have to work at specific schools (with salary cap), e.g. bilingual schools. If they have neither they have to spend 6 months at a Thai school on a fixed salary, after which they step up a level.

So, the largest percentage of Thai schools in need of foreign teachers get an influx of entry level teachers, not experienced but better than nothing, and they are paid 15k a month in line with Thai salaries, and learn the country culture of respect. Six months (1 semester) is nothing if you truly want to live her.

The bilingual schools, being private, get a steady stream of experienced teachers whom they pay at market rates in accordance with the arrangement they have will all their teachers. And truly qualified teachers are paid properly and not prevented from teaching here.

The Ministry of Education can set up a combined TEFL and Thai culture course (a sensible course!), with input from a few foreign teachers who have been here a long time and understand Thai culture, this course becomes compulsory for anyone wanting to get their teaching licence, it's fairly priced, and once done enables you to easily get a work permit and visa.

[SoftWater]

Phillippino teachers are an excellent alternative to Westerners for teaching English to young kids. The Phillipino teachers at my kids' school speak very clear and grammatical English (unlike their Thai counterparts) but also have the same family-orientated culture as Thais.

The suggestion that the Ministry set up or run an agency for checking credentials is a good one. Countries like the UK have a paedophile and sex offenders register that should be checked, but as far as I'm aware such information is not given to foreign school employers.

However, the real problem with English proficiency in Thailand is not primarily down to the quality of the teachers, but the design of the curricula. Unfortunately, most schools and universities leave the overall design of the curriculum and the way it is to be assessed to the Thai staff, employing foreigners to carry out their ideas in the classroom.

Even when foreigners are employed as consultants, their advice is often ignored or rejected. I've seen this happen both internally and externally; e.g., with employed foreigners and even when the MoE has paid for expensive 'visiting experts' to come from the US and other places and 'train' Thai educators at weekend workshops and conferences. As soon as the workshop is over, the Thai staff announce to their own staff (including employed foreigners) that 'that's all very nice in theory, but it isn't suitable for our students'.

Sigh.

[sarahsbloke]

"A key concern is that the pool of qualified native English speakers in Thailand is very limited"

- Not a concern. A big cocern only if the native Thai speakers in Thailand is very limited.

"We have found that hundreds of native speakers have used fake certificates in applying for teaching jobs,"

- In Kao San Road such cert is being sold openly on the street at 200 Baht a piece. Also fake driving license, fake student card, fake press ID, etc.

Every qualified teacher from England will be registered with the British general teaching council, they have a website, they answer emails.

How hard can it be to check? GTC

or they could write to a previous WESTERN employer for a reference!

Speaking as a properly qualified UK teacher (Honours degree, postgraduate certificate of education specialty maths, 8 years experience in UK comprehensive schools) who is living near ChiangMai. It's very hard to get a teaching job here because the TEFLs and unqualified will work cheaper and have flooded the market. Very few schools in Thailand appear to want properly qualified teachers, schools happily accept fake qualifications ...... only the ministry of education ever checks, the schools want cheap!

Edited November 1, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[chainarong]

The root of all evil is behind the poor english and education in general in Thailand , money , end of story.

Edited November 1, 2010 by chainarong

[hyperdimension]

The article title ("Thai-English Schools Worry Lack Of Native Speakers") is one of the worst I've seen here, and ironically it's about teaching English.

For more clarity, it should be renamed to "Thai-English Schools Worry About Lack Of Native English Speakers".

Edited November 1, 2010 by hyperdimension

[BigC]

answer is obviuos. english people cannot afford to come here due to the strong baht. teachers need to use some of there own money. they need about 30 k to do TEFAL coarse plus the pay is not all that.

can barley live of it

[SergeiY]

answer is obviuos. english people cannot afford to come here due to the strong baht. teachers need to use some of there own money. they need about 30 k to do TEFAL coarse plus the pay is not all that.

can barley live of it

lol

FYI: They are looking for people with some qualification and not for blokes that come here for some cheap living.

[uncletom]

Retrospectively thinking , the only true qualified teacher is a teacher that has a teaching credential from his or her University. But some people who don’t, make excellent teachers, so to speak naturals.

Most foreign English teachers in Thailand either have a degree and a TEFL or only a TEFL.

In most instances, I have met and seen foreigners without degrees who are more capable in using and teaching the English language compared to someone who has a degree but did not major in English. Funny isn’t it?

The prerequisite for teaching English in Thailand should be, do a legitimate TEFL course, get the TEFL Certificate, and then mandatorily have all schools give the applicant proficiency exams to determine whether or not they are up to standard and suitable to teach English in the Grammatical or conversational sense. If they can pass, then they should be hired, but wait, let us not forget that last exam they need to pass in order to really get hired, the psychiatric examination. Lot of them off their rockers and mentally disturbed in some capacity or another.

The Thai English programs also encompass other subjects taught using English, so in reality the proficiency tests should encompass what subject(if not English)one is trying to be hired for, an English proficiency test, and a psychiatric examination.

uncletom

[geriatrickid]

What's this nonsense about having students adopt western values? Several African and Carribean nations have English as a primary language. English is a working language in India. I hardly see these countries "adopting" western values, whatever those are supposed to be. Is a student of German expected to adopt german "values'"? When China invests in the hundreds of thousands of students learning foreign languages, it does not expect those student to adopt the culture of the nations where the languages are spoken.

Perhaps, this is where the weakness starts. One learns a foreign language to facilitate commerce and the exchange of valuable social and scientific ideas.

[Thai at Heart]

What's this nonsense about having students adopt western values? Several African and Carribean nations have English as a primary language. English is a working language in India. I hardly see these countries "adopting" western values, whatever those are supposed to be. Is a student of German expected to adopt german "values'"? When China invests in the hundreds of thousands of students learning foreign languages, it does not expect those student to adopt the culture of the nations where the languages are spoken.

Perhaps, this is where the weakness starts. One learns a foreign language to facilitate commerce and the exchange of valuable social and scientific ideas.

This issue is coming more and more to the forefront in Thailand. I was reliably informed that my kids received top marks in "love of the country" and exhibiting good Thai traits this year. When I jokingly asked if anyone failed, of course no one did. I did ask what a kid would have to do to fail, to which I gained a blank stare in response. I then asked who decided what were good Thai traits, to which I also received a blank stare. This very worrying desire to imbibe fake solidarity into people will not work for ever, and it will cause problems in the long run.

The education ministry is in full gear trying to keep the country united and together at the moment. No real prizes for guessing why. The South is under permanent SOE with a separatist movement, and the rural areas are out of the reach of the current government. So role out the brainwashing in schools.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[Lumumba]

I often wonder why we see non native English speakers employed in schools to teach English.

55,000 a month for a qualified English or general class teacher ?

Good qualified staff do not even get out of bed for that salary.

And schools with EP/MEP still provides a Thai-style environment, so students do not adopt "Western values".

Therein lies the cause of failure, one needs to understand the culture of the language and the adoption of those Western values so as one can actually enhance the use of the language one is learning so as to become proficient in the use of the target language.

Teachers from other cultures and countries are expected to jump through hoops via the T.C.T.

Sad to say the quality of the T.C.T. Thai lecturers is very poor, a poor command of English an inability or reluctance to actually answer question when posed as it is seen as an insult to the lecturers ability and of course standing.The idea of teaching is based on an information exchange system, that information which a lecturer gives out returns as an answer or a question to actually drive home the salient point.

The ability to dance, the inevitable question do you like Thai food the inane conversations, questions that are indeed far removed from the reality of the classroom all combine to make the T.C.T. course even unworthy of being implemented in a kindergarten programme.

Yet again another example of ''squeeze as much money out of a foreigner as you can'' mindset.

I am not a native English speaker, but my spoken English is quite more debonair and crisp than that of 75% of the English people I have met in Thailand.

Not that I have any desire to teach anyone English language but i can use English language to instruct college students in Pure sciences.

When I was in the university, though its was a British school but it was 5000 kilometers from UK borders, I had some friends major in English language, even as I was not so much impressed with their English skills, I would feel they also deserve equal chance to teach the language to a non speaker.

But a good teacher is not produced by origin or paper qualification, good teachers have unique abilities that is not easily acquired.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

The problem is that the MOE and TCT are under the misapprehension that there is an unlimited supply of qualified retired teachers willing to give up their comfortable lifestyles in their home countries. They expect these retirees to flock to Thailand to teach for less than USD$1,000 per month at schools which are substandard, poorly resourced, and incompetently administrated and to be able to improve the English skills of students whom the teachers can't discipline or fail. There's a major disconnect between OBEC and the MOE/TCT. They need to get on the same page if they want to improve the level of teaching and the English skills of the students.

[evanson]

When I learned Italian (privately) and French (in school) I was taught by a native speaker.

I don't care how good the filipinos speak English, it's not their native language. Have you ever heard a Thai speak English, having been taught in India? Weird

Fact is this xenophobic (note the words 'not to be exposed to Western culture (sic)) country wants to keep it's people ignorant of the world and it's plethora of ideas, outside Thailand. Many Thais I 've spoken with are woefully ignorant of anything beyond their own doorstep.

Hmm, why's that d'ya think?

[blanco]

I often wonder why we see non native English speakers employed in schools to teach English.

55,000 a month for a qualified English or general class teacher ?

Good qualified staff do not even get out of bed for that salary.

And schools with EP/MEP still provides a Thai-style environment, so students do not adopt "Western values".

Therein lies the cause of failure, one needs to understand the culture of the language and the adoption of those Western values so as one can actually enhance the use of the language one is learning so as to become proficient in the use of the target language.

Teachers from other cultures and countries are expected to jump through hoops via the T.C.T.

Sad to say the quality of the T.C.T. Thai lecturers is very poor, a poor command of English an inability or reluctance to actually answer question when posed as it is seen as an insult to the lecturers ability and of course standing.The idea of teaching is based on an information exchange system, that information which a lecturer gives out returns as an answer or a question to actually drive home the salient point.

The ability to dance, the inevitable question do you like Thai food the inane conversations, questions that are indeed far removed from the reality of the classroom all combine to make the T.C.T. course even unworthy of being implemented in a kindergarten programme.

Yet again another example of ''squeeze as much money out of a foreigner as you can'' mindset.

55,000 per month, please tell me where. I know of some universities that only pay 25, 000 to start and then really lousy yearly increases - after 6 /7 years you might be lucky to be paid 35,000.

Yes, he's confused. 25,000 - 40,000 is the norm. International rates go up if you're lucky enough. Most people would 'get out of bed' at 5am for 55,000 per month!!!

[uncletom]

When I learned Italian (privately) and French (in school) I was taught by a native speaker.

I don't care how good the filipinos speak English, it's not their native language. Have you ever heard a Thai speak English, having been taught in India? Weird

Fact is this xenophobic (note the words 'not to be exposed to Western culture (sic)) country wants to keep it's people ignorant of the world and it's plethora of ideas, outside Thailand. Many Thais I 've spoken with are woefully ignorant of anything beyond their own doorstep.

Hmm, why's that d'ya think?

More of an assumption or yours I presume.

Native speaker or Non native speaker, that is the question.

It is the quality of the person or lack herein to teach. Not everyone has it in their blood and can do it well. Not even the true Native speaker. I can’t fly an airplane or helicopter. Could learn, but not sure how good I would be at doing it. WOULD IT BE BETTER FOR A PILOT TO TEACH ME OR A COMPUTER? Probably can learn from both if i was an exemplary student who excelled in that area. Maybe, maybe not!

Sure I can speak Thai fairly really well, French and Spanish passing, but everything is always up to the student and then how well the teacher does, but I beg to differ the matter regarding native or non native speaker as a general rule of thumb for who is best..

So basically needing to have a NATIVE speaker is Hog Wash unless you want them to sound as a carbon copy, being, sounding like the same country as their Native Speaker teacher.

England and the US have many different areas, rural and city, counties, states, and just differnet areas that have different sounding styles of spoken English. So which is best?, cockney or London sound or the one sounding like a mouth full of marbles; New York or California for what sound is better? 6 one half the other and no one can answer for act of being prejudice or cocky.

In the US, Mexicans and Latinos have Native speaking teachers, but they still have their almost hereditary sound that will last forever, not ever changing.

You know that hereditary sound that always sounds as if it swoops up. Eh esseh? But they speak good, can converse, but not all or so of them many using good grammar.

I just don't buy the statment that a Native Speaker is worth more their weight in Gold.

uncletom

[jhwest]

I have taught English Language and conversation skills with my wonderful Thai wife in the Kanchanaburi region and find that some of the Thai teachers, who teach English, have very little knowledge of the language, just some small sentences, which are meaningless. Yet they get paid for doing this and I have taught for the last 2 years as a Volunteer and am proud to say, that some of the more intelligent students are willing to listen and indeed have learnt a fair amount of English.

Yes I feel very proud that some students have moved schools and still ask me quiestions, when I see them and try to help them for no moneatary gain whatsoever.

Nevertheless there is some very, very poor Thai teachers and teach subjects in Thai and the students still do not understand what is being taught and subsequently the parents raise several quiestions. Indeed they start to blame the poor Thai teacher ( and yes there are very many) and also volunteers, who get branded as very poor.

The facts are in that the majority of students are not interested in learning anything and cause alot of disruption and hold back the more intelligent ones and also the tryers, who really want to learn something, but are prevented from doing so.

The quality of the teaching is not very good and not saying all Thai teachers and everyone else are all the same, but the children do not get motivated enough and their attention just drifts after about 20 minutes.

I have worked in helping the more intelligent students the attention they deserve, but it seems the student is not allowed to have minds of their own, to have their own opinions, but are told bluntly to obey the teacher, who knows best.

This is the main problem, together with unmotivated teachers, who do receive lowish pay, but the volunters sometimes do a better job of teaching too and receive nothing and it is very satisfying to know that one has helped at least a few of the more intelligent students.

Indeed some other students from other schools, often stop me and ask me a quiestion about English in the street and am very happy to help them as much as I can.

[Lumumba]

Native or non native speaker without proper training and motivation is as useless as a volleyball coach standing in for Arsene Wenger.

I know someone that used to repair roads for a living in England, teaching English to high school pupils here. He once told me that 'Riddance' is not an English word.

[chantorn]

"A key concern is that the pool of qualified native English speakers in Thailand is very limited"

- Not a concern. A big cocern only if the native Thai speakers in Thailand is very limited.

"We have found that hundreds of native speakers have used fake certificates in applying for teaching jobs,"

- In Kao San Road such cert is being sold openly on the street at 200 Baht a piece. Also fake driving license, fake student card, fake press ID, etc.

Every qualified teacher from England will be registered with the British general teaching council, they have a website, they answer emails.

How hard can it be to check? GTC

or they could write to a previous WESTERN employer for a reference!

Speaking as a properly qualified UK teacher (Honours degree, postgraduate certificate of education specialty maths, 8 years experience in UK comprehensive schools) who is living near ChiangMai. It's very hard to get a teaching job here because the TEFLs and unqualified will work cheaper and have flooded the market. Very few schools in Thailand appear to want properly qualified teachers, schools happily accept fake qualifications ...... only the ministry of education ever checks, the schools want cheap!

many people can claim that English is there 1st language. Liberia, Nigeria, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Sudan, Uganda, etc. Also TEFL cert are openly sold in Khan San road. Don't believe me, just go and have a look. The sales is not conducted in the back street, but the vendor openly display it on the main street. I'll try to capture some images if I happens to go there again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_English_is_an_official_language

[uncletom]

Native or non native speaker without proper training and motivation is as useless as a volleyball coach standing in for Arsene Wenger.

I know someone that used to repair roads for a living in England, teaching English to high school pupils here. He once told me that 'Riddance' is not an English word.

Now that is a truly scary thought coming fromm your statement. And the person is a Natural Native speaker which goes to show Native and Speaker just don't properly fit together sometimes!

But on another note, hearing that this is the true case of a Native English Speaker from England , sounds as if Chantorn's English is a far sight better and might have a new profession in the teaching English in Thailand industry..

uncletom

[animatic]

Money

AND nationalist paranoia

AND teachers worrying about losing face in front of the classes

by answering questions from students,

is at the root of the problem.

Worry less about controlling the 'cultures purity' and more about

improving those living in the culture. Learning about the cultures

of other places, doesn't mean the home culture is suddenly lost.

Only that the students can think in more ways than they could before.

[TAWP]

The focus on 'native' speakers are a bigger threat than a possible lack of them as it excludes a wide range of individuals that could alleviate the situation.

Besides, I have seen/heard many Brits and Aussies that aren't exactly...'native' in terms of speaking or writing proper Queens English.

[sarahsbloke]

I am not a native English speaker, but my spoken English is quite more debonair and crisp than that of 75% of the English people I have met in Thailand.

Not that I have any desire to teach anyone English language but i can use English language to instruct college students in Pure sciences.

When I was in the university, though its was a British school but it was 5000 kilometers from UK borders, I had some friends major in English language, even as I was not so much impressed with their English skills, I would feel they also deserve equal chance to teach the language to a non speaker.

But a good teacher is not produced by origin or paper qualification, good teachers have unique abilities that is not easily acquired.

Sorry to point this out, but you are quite clearly not a native English speaker and while meaning no insult your written English is quite strange.

Words like 'debonair' are no longer used, went out of use in the 1960s, and not useful in the context you have written. (means handsome, well dressed man). Also refers to an India blog and sex site.

Never seen 'crisp' used in this way, 'quite and more' you only need one of those words.

'produced by origin or paper' is just wrong as are several other combinations of words.

Sentence structure is unusual, past and present tense is confused.

I am assuming you come from India, they often use very old text books, way out of date.

You would not be suitable to teach English, assuming the student never becomes better than the teacher ...... they would be talking nonsense.

Yes your English may be understandable in some ways.

Edited November 1, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[jayjay0]

The problem as I see it is that the educators are try to make the system 'clever' without making 'clever' decisions. This is symptomatic of Thailand in general, policy makers aren't necessarily the best people for the job, just the most senior. They are often side-tracked by other values, prioritised over improving the methodology of teaching.

Forget the whole English language argument until you can get the general quality of education raised, for the same rules apply to both. They're spiltting hairs about the 'qualification' of backpacker types trying to teach English, when their own Thai teachers (of English or anything else) are often poor. This is pride thing, A teacher who's been to university and teacher training college for three years and has several years experience gets less than 10,000 baht. A non-experienced, non qualified foreigner strolls in and expects 20,000 baht, you can imagine how all the Thais feel. But the truth they can't see, is that the foreigner, with a uni degree and a bit of intelligence, might be doing a more dynamic and better job of instilling English in the students. It's the whole grammar, verses spoken word, argument. Sometimes the Thai educators just don't get it.

The farangs don't get it either. Thais place enormous value on a 'certificate' (a real one), plus a photo of your presentability, whether you're competent or not is less important. So, you have quite a few 'curved balls' here in trying to introduce English teachers to the system, and it needs some creativity.

1. Lots of farangs want to come and live here, teaching is one way, but fulfilling the criteria to get a visa are difficult, so get creative. Why not make all foreigner teachers apply for a licence. If they are properly qualified as teachers they get issued a licence, and are free to enter the job market (private schools etc), if they have a TEFL or some valid experience they get a licence but have to work at specific schools (with salary cap), e.g. bilingual schools. If they have neither they have to spend 6 months at a Thai school on a fixed salary, after which they step up a level.

So, the largest percentage of Thai schools in need of foreign teachers get an influx of entry level teachers, not experienced but better than nothing, and they are paid 15k a month in line with Thai salaries, and learn the country culture of respect. Six months (1 semester) is nothing if you truly want to live her.

The bilingual schools, being private, get a steady stream of experienced teachers whom they pay at market rates in accordance with the arrangement they have will all their teachers. And truly qualified teachers are paid properly and not prevented from teaching here.

The Ministry of Education can set up a combined TEFL and Thai culture course (a sensible course!), with input from a few foreign teachers who have been here a long time and understand Thai culture, this course becomes compulsory for anyone wanting to get their teaching licence, it's fairly priced, and once done enables you to easily get a work permit and visa.

Personally I feel there is way to much effort going into teaching English. Raise the standards for a teacher pay him a decent wage and get the kids to want to learn show them how to. Teach them the studies that are useful to them. After you have them started down the proper path to learning you can teach English. Lets be honest here less than 10% of them will ever need English.Go to the tourist markets and notice the number of non English speaking people making a living off the non Thai speaking tourists. Time to put the cart behind the pony.

There will always be some wanting to learn English and for them a school could have a special class. No need to try to get them all to learn it when they don't even know how to learn. Some will fall through the cracks but that is a fact of life in all human endeavors.

[petedk]

I often wonder why we see non native English speakers employed in schools to teach English.

55,000 a month for a qualified English or general class teacher ?

Good qualified staff do not even get out of bed for that salary.

And schools with EP/MEP still provides a Thai-style environment, so students do not adopt "Western values".

Therein lies the cause of failure, one needs to understand the culture of the language and the adoption of those Western values so as one can actually enhance the use of the language one is learning so as to become proficient in the use of the target language.

Teachers from other cultures and countries are expected to jump through hoops via the T.C.T.

Sad to say the quality of the T.C.T. Thai lecturers is very poor, a poor command of English an inability or reluctance to actually answer question when posed as it is seen as an insult to the lecturers ability and of course standing.The idea of teaching is based on an information exchange system, that information which a lecturer gives out returns as an answer or a question to actually drive home the salient point.

The ability to dance, the inevitable question do you like Thai food the inane conversations, questions that are indeed far removed from the reality of the classroom all combine to make the T.C.T. course even unworthy of being implemented in a kindergarten programme.

Yet again another example of ''squeeze as much money out of a foreigner as you can'' mindset.

55,000 per month, please tell me where. I know of some universities that only pay 25, 000 to start and then really lousy yearly increases - after 6 /7 years you might be lucky to be paid 35,000.

I have been at the same university for 11 years and am still receiving the same pay.

[jayjay0]

I am not a native English speaker, but my spoken English is quite more debonair and crisp than that of 75% of the English people I have met in Thailand.

Not that I have any desire to teach anyone English language but i can use English language to instruct college students in Pure sciences.

When I was in the university, though its was a British school but it was 5000 kilometers from UK borders, I had some friends major in English language, even as I was not so much impressed with their English skills, I would feel they also deserve equal chance to teach the language to a non speaker.

But a good teacher is not produced by origin or paper qualification, good teachers have unique abilities that is not easily acquired.

Sorry to point this out, but you are quite clearly not a native English speaker and while meaning no insult your written English is quite strange.

Words like 'debonair' are no longer used, went out of use in the 1960s, and not useful in the context you have written.

Never seen 'crisp' used in this way, 'quite and more' you only need one of those words.

'produced by origin or paper' is just wrong as are several other combinations of words.

Sentence structure is unusual, past and present tense is confused.

I am assuming you come from India, they often use very old text books, way out of date.

You would not be suitable to teach English, assuming student nearly always worse than the teacher ...... they would be talking nonsense.

Yes your English may be understandable in some ways.

I am a native English speaker and I had no problem with his dialogue. I think that is part of the problem in teaching English. People want to use only words that are currently popular and get all hung up on the grammar. The first time I took Thai lessons it was in a class advertised for beginners. Having been here two weeks I thought that qualified me. Was I ever wrong. thy were teaching a few words but mostly it was grammar for a language I could not speak. Let them learn the language then teach them grammar and how to tell the in words. They would have a better Chance of learning then. JMO