New English Requirement For Uk Spouse/Fiance/Partners

[7by7]

Other topics on this subject have unfortunately been hijacked and closed. Hopefully this one can stay open.

Details of the new requirement can be found on the UKBA page New English language requirement for partners, which includes a link to list of acceptable tests and approved test providers.

You can contact one of these providers to find out if they offer the test (or whatever one wants to call it, the UKBA say 'test', so I'll go with that) in Thailand, and if so where.

Alternatively, two of our sponsors can arrange the test for you; see this post and this one.

Please confine posts in this topic to questions about the test, where to take it etc. and answers to same. Any comments anyone has to make about a test provider or another member of this board must be kept out of this topic. Anyone who ignores this instruction will be severely dealt with.

[coolhandjoe]

So if you pass this test before entry to the U.K and you get your Futher Leave to Remain, when after 2 years it's time to apply for Indefinate leave to remain. Do you still have to take the Life in the U.K test or ESOL course?

[VisasPlus]

So if you pass this test before entry to the U.K and you get your Futher Leave to Remain, when after 2 years it's time to apply for Indefinate leave to remain. Do you still have to take the Life in the U.K test or ESOL course?

At the moment, the answer to that question is yes. They are, unfortunately, two separate hurdles on the way to ILR in the UK.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

You most still take KOL/ESOL.

[owl1971]

Hi ,

My GF is currently in the UK on a Visitor Visa until Jan 2011, we are applying for a Fiancee (Settlement Visa) when she is back in thailand.

My question is as my GF is currently in the UK, can she take the A1 English Test in the UK before we go back to thailand to submit application in Jan2011.

Thanks to the info on this post I have managed to find a couple of exam centres which are accredited near where I Live (Cost of Exam Approx £120 , Provisional Date 13/12/2010).

Many Thanks

Dave

[VisasPlus]

Hi ,

My GF is currently in the UK on a Visitor Visa until Jan 2011, we are applying for a Fiancee (Settlement Visa) when she is back in thailand.

My question is as my GF is currently in the UK, can she take the A1 English Test in the UK before we go back to thailand to submit application in Jan2011.

Thanks to the info on this post I have managed to find a couple of exam centres which are accredited near where I Live (Cost of Exam Approx £120 , Provisional Date 13/12/2010).

Many Thanks

Dave

There is no reason why the test cannot be taken in the UK ( and certainly no requirement that it has to be taken overseas ). Be sure, though, that you get a certificate that can accompany the visa application in Thailand. Here is the link to the UKBA approved providers ( although you say you already have a couple of choices). Give the providers you have selected a call, but be sure to tell them that it is the listening and speaking test for settlement visa applicants, or you may find that your fiancee is sitting the full A1 level CEFR test. The test cost seems to be about the same as it is here in Thailand ( 6,000 Baht here).

Good luck.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/partners-other-family/english-tests-partners.pdf

If your fiancee does take the test in UK, perhaps you could give us all some insight into how easy/difficult she found it, and what it entailed ?

[owl1971]

Hi,

Many thanks for your response, I will definatley let you all know how my GF gets on and what the requirements are for the listening and speaking test.

Apparently when we enrol for the test, they will send me the itenarary , and test scenarios.

will keep you all posted.

Cheers

Dave

[RAZZELL]

Sorry, but would taking a test not count as "study"...something specifically against the conditions of a Visit Visa???

I'd check with the UKBA first and get the answer IN WRITING....

RAZZ

Edited November 15, 2010 by RAZZELL

[owl1971]

Hi,

Valid point 'RAZZEL' , When I spoke to the guy this morning at the accredited centre I asked the same question , and he said it was not classed as Study.

THE UKBA STATES 'does not intend to undertake a course of study' -- but they do not clarify what contitutes this.

I have contacted UKBA and VFS to clarify this , will let you know the outcome.

Cheers

Dave

Edited November 15, 2010 by owl1971

[RAZZELL]

Hi,

Valid point 'RAZZEL' , When I spoke to the guy this morning at the accredited centre I asked the same question , and he said it was not classed as Study.

THE UKBA STATES 'does not intend to undertake a course of study' -- but they do not clarify what contitutes this.

I have contacted UKBA and VFS to clarify this , will let you know the outcome.

Cheers

Dave

A sensible approach

But I bet you a tenner that don't even know or can't provide a "definitive" answer!

Seriously, in all my reading over the last year I'm yet to see a definition of what is classed as "study" and what isn't for someone in the UK on a Visitors Visa. E.G. can you take driving lessons? Evening classes? A1 Level Test? etc etc etc

I suspect there is a document "somewhere" that will give you the answer...it's just that I've never been able to find it

Good luck

RAZZ

Edited November 15, 2010 by RAZZELL

[Farside]

You most still take KOL/ESOL.

You MUST take KOL/ESOL or you only need do the "life in uk test" and this new test which the thread is about?

My wife did the life in uk test almost 2 years ago (I got her to do it as soon as she arrived so it would save us the hassle of having to do it later).

[7by7]

This new test does not replace the KOL requirement for ILR; it is in addition to it.

So, new test for initial visa.

Then KOL (LitUK test or equivalent ESOL with citizenship course) for ILR.

In an earlier topic there was some discussion as to whether passing the LitUK test would satisfy this new requirement. I emailed the UKBA and UK Visas to ask, but have not yet received a reply.

Although a visitor to the UK cannot undertake a course of study, taking either this new test or the LitUK test would not be classed as study.

Evening classes would, Razz; not sure about driving lessons, but an instructor wouldn't take you out without a GB or NI provisional licence, and you would need to be resident in GB or NI to get one of those.

[owl1971]

Hi ,

You were correct 'RAZZ' ,they have not given a definative answer

There answer is ' Unfortunate, we are unable to give you the exact information regarding to attend the test in the UK whilst she is in the UK '.

I have emailed them back to to ask for a definative answer, and they have got back to me straight away and have stated said:

Your enquiry requires specific information from the UK Border Agency, and has been forwarded to the correspondence team at the British Embassy in Bangkok. The correspondence team will respond as soon as possible, and aim to respond to all enquiries within 20 working days, in accordance with customer service standards.

Hopefully they will get back to me soon, wil keep you all posted.

Cheers

Dave

[Eff1n2ret]

Although a visitor to the UK cannot undertake a course of study, taking either this new test or the LitUK test would not be classed as study.

Evening classes would,

Why?

The yardstick, before all this Tier 4 Points-Based stuff, for someone to be classed as a student was that they would be engaged in a minimum of 15 hours a week formal daytime classroom study. If that's their definition of a "course of study" they can't have it both ways and start knocking off visitors who go to a few evening classes in English conversation or Morris Dancing. It simply doesn't happen. The Rule doesn't forbid "study" as such (which in any case according to my Oxford English Dictionary usually implies book-learning), but "a course of study" - so IMHO it's a matter of degree. A few classes which are incidental to the visit, particularly evening classes, are unlikely to be frowned on. If someone arrives as a visitor, enrols on some course and spends 6 months doing little else, they will have undoubtedly broken the rules.

Or do you know different?

[VisasPlus]

Sorry, but would taking a test not count as "study"...something specifically against the conditions of a Visit Visa???

I'd check with the UKBA first and get the answer IN WRITING....

RAZZ

IMHO, this is a non-issue. Taking a test whilst in the UK will not constitute study. If you look at it from a different angle, what kind of visa would you apply for if you wanted to go to the UK to take a 30 minute test ( excluding the PLAB test ). I would suggest that your only option is a visit visa.

[7by7]

Eff1n2ret,

The information I've been given is that evening classes would count as a course of study and so would technically be breaking the rules. Admittedly, that information is a few years old.

I stand to be corrected if anyone can provide a UKBA definition of what constitutes a prohibited course of study for visitors and what doesn't (I can't find one!).

As already said, I agree with Visa Plus that simply taking the test is definitely not undertaking a course of study and so is not in any way a contravention of the conditions of a visit visa.

[Eff1n2ret]

Eff1n2ret,

The information I've been given is that evening classes would count as a course of study and so would technically be breaking the rules. Admittedly, that information is a few years old.

I stand to be corrected if anyone can provide a UKBA definition of what constitutes a prohibited course of study for visitors and what doesn't (I can't find one!).

I don't think there is one, and my point is that in the absence of any such definition what is prohibited can only be inferred from what has always been defined as a recognised "course of study". I think it's a matter of common sense. If someone came as a visitor and returned with a professional qualification of some sort they might rightly be regarded as having taken the pi55, otherwise I doubt it.

Sorry, it is straying a little bit from the OP, but I don't think anyone should be deterred from fixing their partner up with a few night classes in English conversation or suchlike to help them jump through these various hoops.

[RAZZELL]

Eff1n2ret,

The information I've been given is that evening classes would count as a course of study and so would technically be breaking the rules. Admittedly, that information is a few years old.

I stand to be corrected if anyone can provide a UKBA definition of what constitutes a prohibited course of study for visitors and what doesn't (I can't find one!).

I don't think there is one, and my point is that in the absence of any such definition what is prohibited can only be inferred from what has always been defined as a recognised "course of study". I think it's a matter of common sense. If someone came as a visitor and returned with a professional qualification of some sort they might rightly be regarded as having taken the pi55, otherwise I doubt it.

Sorry, it is straying a little bit from the OP, but I don't think anyone should be deterred from fixing their partner up with a few night classes in English conversation or suchlike to help them jump through these various hoops.

I agree. But wouldn't the "common sense" approach be to double-check and make sure?

Let's put forward a hypothetical situation. UKBA raid a private language school looking for overstayers, fake visas, cheating in tests etc etc etc

The OP's gf is there. What would you think would happen? Would you want to find out? I know it's all a bit anal but I'd get the answer in writing, then she could do the test and any other classes she wanted.

RAZZ

Edited November 17, 2010 by RAZZELL

[RAZZELL]

Sorry, but would taking a test not count as "study"...something specifically against the conditions of a Visit Visa???

I'd check with the UKBA first and get the answer IN WRITING....

RAZZ

IMHO, this is a non-issue. Taking a test whilst in the UK will not constitute study. If you look at it from a different angle, what kind of visa would you apply for if you wanted to go to the UK to take a 30 minute test ( excluding the PLAB test ). I would suggest that your only option is a visit visa.

How do you know? What's the difference between a 30 minute Test and some sort of Professional Exam? Where do you draw the line? Surely it's better to err on the side of caution?

RAZZ

[VisasPlus]

Sorry, but would taking a test not count as "study"...something specifically against the conditions of a Visit Visa???

I'd check with the UKBA first and get the answer IN WRITING....

RAZZ

IMHO, this is a non-issue. Taking a test whilst in the UK will not constitute study. If you look at it from a different angle, what kind of visa would you apply for if you wanted to go to the UK to take a 30 minute test ( excluding the PLAB test ). I would suggest that your only option is a visit visa.

How do you know? What's the difference between a 30 minute Test and some sort of Professional Exam? Where do you draw the line? Surely it's better to err on the side of caution?

RAZZ

I explained my thinking on this in the post you are querying. If you wanted to go to the UK to take the exam, what visa would you apply for ?

[owl1971]

Yes I agree with the reverse angle that VISA Plus has Highlighted.

E.g If my GF were to say do a Online course in Thailand about the theory of Kniitting, but the only place she could sit the exam and get accredited was in the UK ,she could'nt apply for a student visa as she's not enrolled on a course (15+ hours per week) , the only option would be to do this on a Visitor visa.

However I shall wait to see if the UKBA get back to me with a definative answer, as I would not want anything to jeopdise my GF's future VISA.

Keep you all posted

[monkfish]

Thinking about moving back to the UK and have a couple of questions

1. My wife as AUA English to level 10 would that qualify her? or does she still need to take this test?

2. Is it also possible to take the KOL/ESOL in Thailand?

or does she need to go to the UK take the test and return to apply for a visa?

[Eff1n2ret]

Let's put forward a hypothetical situation. UKBA raid a private language school looking for overstayers, fake visas, cheating in tests etc etc etc

The OP's gf is there. What would you think would happen? Would you want to find out? I know it's all a bit anal but I'd get the answer in writing, then she could do the test and any other classes she wanted.

RAZZ

In practice, if she could produce her passport showing that she was in the UK legally, nothing would happen to her. Although the offence designated by S24 (i) of the Immigration Act 1971 says this:-

"(b)if, having only a limited leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, he knowingly either—.

(ii)fails to observe a condition of the leave;"

in practice the only offences dealt with by enforcement officers under this clause are illegal working. They'd scratch their heads a bit, ask her a few questions and move on. In the 10 years that I spent as an IO engaged in mainly enforcement work I don't recall a single instance of a visitor with current leave being arrested for any immigration offence other than working in breach of their entry conditions, and in the 10 years prior to that engaged in mainly border control work I don't recall anyone being refused entry because of an alleged previous offence such as postulated, if indeed it is an offence, which as I have said I doubt.

Run of the mill enforcement work goes after illegal entry, overstaying and working in breach. There are specialist prosecution teams who concentrate on document and other types of fraud, facilitation/human trafficking and the like. The pursuit of other "offences" is left to the imagination of contributors of internet fora such as this.

[RAZZELL]

Let's put forward a hypothetical situation. UKBA raid a private language school looking for overstayers, fake visas, cheating in tests etc etc etc

The OP's gf is there. What would you think would happen? Would you want to find out? I know it's all a bit anal but I'd get the answer in writing, then she could do the test and any other classes she wanted.

RAZZ

In practice, if she could produce her passport showing that she was in the UK legally, nothing would happen to her. Although the offence designated by S24 (i) of the Immigration Act 1971 says this:-

"(b)if, having only a limited leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, he knowingly either—.

(ii)fails to observe a condition of the leave;"

in practice the only offences dealt with by enforcement officers under this clause are illegal working. They'd scratch their heads a bit, ask her a few questions and move on. In the 10 years that I spent as an IO engaged in mainly enforcement work I don't recall a single instance of a visitor with current leave being arrested for any immigration offence other than working in breach of their entry conditions, and in the 10 years prior to that engaged in mainly border control work I don't recall anyone being refused entry because of an alleged previous offence such as postulated, if indeed it is an offence, which as I have said I doubt.

Run of the mill enforcement work goes after illegal entry, overstaying and working in breach. There are specialist prosecution teams who concentrate on document and other types of fraud, facilitation/human trafficking and the like. The pursuit of other "offences" is left to the imagination of contributors of internet fora such as this.

Thanks...I bow to your superior knowledge of knicking illegals...and then letting them go

RAZZ

Edited November 18, 2010 by RAZZELL

[Rayongy]

Thinking about moving back to the UK and have a couple of questions

1. My wife as AUA English to level 10 would that qualify her? or does she still need to take this test?

2. Is it also possible to take the KOL/ESOL in Thailand?

or does she need to go to the UK take the test and return to apply for a visa?

No, an AUA course does not qualify her. That said, if she is studying at level 10 at AUA, then she will have no difficulty passing any one of the accredited tests that indicate A1 level. There is no A1 test, there are many test.

It is no possible to take the life in UK test from Thailand, if you have been married and outside the UK for 3 years plus, then she could take the life in UK test whilst you are both on a visit to the UK and then she can apply for ILE from Thailand, missing out the 2 year settlement visa. Or, she could still apply for ILE and would be stamped in as 'subject to life in UK test', so just take it as soon as she arrives.

As I said, if she is studying a L10 at AUA, she will easily attain A1 standard and with a couple of weeks intensive study using the Life in UK recommended guides, pass that test if she has a good memory.

Good luck.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Rayongy

[addicted22]

some useful information here. I am planning to apply to take my English test. I hope all goes well.

[QuickRick]

Hi ,

You were correct 'RAZZ' ,they have not given a definative answer

There answer is ' Unfortunate, we are unable to give you the exact information regarding to attend the test in the UK whilst she is in the UK '.

I have emailed them back to to ask for a definative answer, and they have got back to me straight away and have stated said:

Your enquiry requires specific information from the UK Border Agency, and has been forwarded to the correspondence team at the British Embassy in Bangkok. The correspondence team will respond as soon as possible, and aim to respond to all enquiries within 20 working days, in accordance with customer service standards.

Hopefully they will get back to me soon, wil keep you all posted.

Cheers

Dave

20 working days for a reply, ! i hate all this beurocratic bullsh1t , customer services my @ss, if they were a business and said 20 days they wouldnt last 5 minutes, yes yes we all know how overworked and underpaid they are,....

[anterian]

Re: getting clear answers from government agencies, particularly when they are playing "pass the parcel" is to dump the problem in the lap of your local MP. They have the right to demand a written reply in 24 hours. My MP takes a fiendish delight in doing this and has been very helpful, even raising a "question in Parliament" which got me a grudging apology from the FCO.

perhaps I'm lucky that my MP was himself an immigrant (from New Zealand) and got rather pissed off with the FCO

[ExoticMatter]

Hi, am just about to apply for my TW's indefinite leave to remain visa here in the UK, is it still true that my wife only needs to do the 'life in the UK' test or 'ESOL level 3' or is the requirement for both now? and where does the A1 test fit in(if at all being a lower level),

cheers.

[7by7]

This new requirement applies to those who are outside the UK and applying to enter as a partner* and to those partners* who are in the UK and wish to extend their leave by applying for FLR.

It does not apply to ILR; however, the current KOL requirement still will.

In other words:

Filling in form VAF4A as a partner*, new test required.

Filling in form FLR(M), new test required unless already passed for form VAF4A.

Filling in form SET(M), new test not required.

*Partner could be: spouse, civil partner, unmarried partner, same sex partner, fiance or proposed civil partner.