Where To Go When You Are Hiv Positive In Thailand?

[puuchai299]

Sounds like he may have become severelydepressed about his situation and can't see any future for himselfnow.Some people deal with it easier than others,you maybe feel likekicking him and giving him a good shaking and telling him come on bestrong you can get better,but it may not work,try to not getfrustrated with him,it won't help and may just push him further intomisery,as for why he isn't getting treatment for it there could bemany reasons,like he refused,or has already been treated and didn'tstick to a medication regime.Can you speak thai with him?or can hespeak English with you?Has he told your wife how he's feeling abouthis situation?

Hiv/Aids can be quite well taken careof in Thailand,but only if the person that has it allows themselvesto be helped.

[eurasianthai]

No, I indeed can't speak to him, a big part of the problem, I think.

But my wife can and well, he sure told her about how he feels.

He just want to die.

Why? Well, my version, because he does not want to make his family shy.

Or make them lose face.

But well, won't happen if I can help it.

Lucky me (and him), I have no face I care of if it helps keeping somebody alive

[bina]

euroasia, i dont know hwo to phrase this but in thailand, the life of a person is his /her own life. people do not interfere in thses things... a non compliant person wont comply. he will say yes yes and then not take the pills, he will hide them, he will lie to u, and for sure he wont tell your wife what he is feeling because in general thais dont really discuss what they feel with others. its a private and personal matter.

it doesnt have to be AIDS. i ahve wars with my husband about dental treatments that can save his teeth. and about his mother who is diabetic and doesnt listen to what the doc says and doesn what she wants; or the guys here that get med treatment , i explain in thai, i double check, convince, etc and in the long run, they do what they want, they stop in the middle of treatments, they take too much or too little of the meds they need, they dont stop drinking or eating things they are supposed to stop or are meant to eat... the is a lot less of the 'fighing at all costs to stay alive'. dont know if its because of neccesetiy or because of the latent buddhist /animist culture but that is the way they are.

if u take him on, u will possibly feel a lot of guit if and whne (he probably will) dies, that u couldnt do enough, others didnt do enough. however, u have tried and he doesnt want it. so now u have to honour his choice. it is his life. not yours. he will keep finding ways to get out of doing treatments regardless of what u do or say. and u wil lmake his life that much more difficult since he will hae to lie to u always to avoid the situation rather then just excepting it and helpinng him feel comfortable.

my thai husband had a friend die of HIV/aids alone in a different village and only when on death's bed did she come back to her mom's house to die... and there were other cases: cousin with cancer, child with unidentified disease. i remember anon's mother fell and broke her wrist; she was hospitalized and when discharged given meds including calcium tablets etc. two days later i found all themeds in a drawer where they keep everyhting, she didnt go back to the orthopedist, didnt do anything she was told. and the meds are kept for self use half the time for the wrong ailments and the wrong dosages... i except that . for a child it is one thing, for and adult, it is their own life, u can provide information, and help but u cant force someone to do something they sont want to do.

good luck

bina

[mommysboy]

I don't think we need to look at this too deeply for his apathy: he's awfully ill for heaven's sake.

I really think all you can do is order a taxi ( or whatever) and get him off to the hospital, and let's hope the poor guy can be treated.

Sometimes you have to be a bit forceful, it's a tough situation I know, but just think back to the times when mum and dad had to be a bit tough to help you out.

Equally, don't beat yourself up about this, it's a tough area.

[Sheryl]

Mommysboy, he has already been to a hospital and is now refusing to go back for follow up appointment (at which he would likely be given the medication that would save his life and restore his health). And in Thailand, most men with HIV are not gay and the homosexuality stigma (very prominent in the west) is not such an issue. People here don't assume a man is gay when they hear he has HIV...because most HIV transmission in Thailand is heterosexual. However there is a lot of ignorance, many people still don't understand that HIV cannot be spread through casual contact and thus are afraid to be around people with the disease.

OP, medication cannot be given right away as there are a number of tests that need to be done first to determine the stage of the disease. Paolo may not have the capacity to do them and thus may have to send them to a large government hospital and wait for the resultsw to come back. As mentione,d this is not an ideal place to go for treatment of this problem (although certainly better than no place).

I think the only thing you can do at this point is to go, with your wife, cell phone in hand, and try to get him to talk on the phone with one of the hotlines given. He needs to hear from other Thais with HIV. Could also try to get his family members to talk with some of these organizations as their attitude is undoubtedly reinforcing his.

Depending on where you live, there may also be organizations that would be willing to visit him at home...but of course, he has to be willing to receive their help.

[eurasianthai]

Thanks all.

He went back to Paolo this morning and got the medicine but I could not keep him in Bangkok anymore, he wanted to go back to his parents' place.

And I understand that.

So I sent him back after the hospital check-up.

He actually wanted to go back at the beginning of the week but I wanted him to get the final results at Paolo and the medicine before he goes.

Was a bit tough on my wife actually, the parents wanted him to come back, he wanted to go back and I did not want.

So she was stuck in the middle.

Now, as Bina said, I hope he will take the medicine and get better.

But I'm unfortunately not too optimistic on that, without some strict control here in Bangkok, I do not think it will happen.

[Sheryl]

Where does he live/

There are many organizations assisting people with HIV upcountry. Often staffed by people who are themselves HIV positive.

He needs to become better informed about his disease. Where he is staying is not the issue, HIV treatment is available in the provinces too as are groups such as described above.

It is ignorance (on his part and his family's) and the fatalism it brings that is the threat.

Should consider too that it is possible the hospital staff were rude or judgmental towards him and that this plays a role in his attitude, and also that he was not given much by way of information about his disease, what to expect from the medication and when to expect it etc. All the more likely if he is obviously from the countryside. I've taken people from the provinces to health facilities in Bangkok. even with me there advocating for them, it wasn't pretty.

[eurasianthai]

He is from Mukdahan.

But he has been living in Bangkok for the past 10 years, went to university, got a job and well, I did not hear about him up to beginning of this week actually.

So it should not be the issue.

But well, after spending one week with him, if there is one thing I understood is that he actually wants to die.

Edited November 19, 2010 by eurasianthai

[orchis]

compliance with meds is crucial but very hard in this case, he needs peer to peer

support, pha.narak.com is a thai language website with forum and many people absolutely willing to help out

even by phone. this link to more websites; http://www.trcarc.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=61&Itemid=48

[eurasianthai]

I actually found a way for him to follow the treatment.

His parents said they do not know how to thank me for trying to help him.

Easy to make me happy about it.

Make sure he takes the medicine and he will get better.

And it seems to be working.

But well, it is only one day, so I guess we're not out of the woods yet.

[Sheryl]

As Orchis said, peer to peer support is crucial. He needs to talk to other Thais who are HIV positive and have improved with treatment. They can influence him in a way you cannot. Please try to contact the links given.

[cdnvic]

Please provide only solid information, no rumours of miracle cures. One post deleted.

[marc11864]

This is your biggest problem to overcome, not the treatment of HIV (Although it is an important one as well).

And my wife got "angry" on me because I posted on a forum that somebody in our family got AIDS.

We can not talk about that.

Just show you where the problem is...

[rammis35]

I know a lady who has HIV and she said you can only get the free medication if they get it in there home Provence. She does not and has to pay 13000 per month for meds, then an extra 5000 every 3 months for tests to make sure the meds are working properly. She said most hospitals can help you but it is best to be in your home Provence so you don't have to pay. Thailand use to have quite a high HIV problem which went down for a while but is on the rise again so many hospitals are equipped to work on the problem.

[orchis]

I know a lady who has HIV and she said you can only get the free medication if they get it in there home Provence. She does not and has to pay 13000 per month for meds, then an extra 5000 every 3 months for tests to make sure the meds are working properly. She said most hospitals can help you but it is best to be in your home Provence so you don't have to pay. Thailand use to have quite a high HIV problem which went down for a while but is on the rise again so many hospitals are equipped to work on the problem.

This is correct, there is a more complete picture though;

1/if you want to apply for a government scheme then you have to apply where you are registered, this is mostly your hometown and you mostly get help at a provincial hospital, many Thais don't transfer their registration (address) to the place they actually live so cannot benefit from this;

2/if you want to benefit from social security through your work (if provided) then you go through a hospital in the vicinity of your work place, many don't chose this option for fear of disclosure;

3/if you pay out of pocket this can be 13000 thb but also around 1000 thb for the first line treatment (generic GPO-VIR) to tens of thousands for new generation meds or somewhere much in between. e.g. my friend takes truvada and neravir = 2600 thb pr month. 6 monthly testing at anonymous clinic 300 thb = for cd4 and viral load test = 1500 thb. Prices at Chula and ramabodhi are similar.

Edited November 22, 2010 by orchis

[maesai]

3/if you pay out of pocket this can be 13000 thb but also around 1000 thb for the first line treatment (generic GPO-VIR) to tens of thousands for new generation meds or somewhere much in between. e.g. my friend takes truvada and neravir = 2600 thb pr month. 6 monthly testing at anonymous clinic 300 thb = for cd4 and viral load test = 1500 thb. Prices at Chula and ramabodhi are similar.

A better choice for first line treatment (if you can afford it) would be Truvada + Efavirenz. Around 3400 baht a month at government hospitals if memory serves.

[orchis]

3/if you pay out of pocket this can be 13000 thb but also around 1000 thb for the first line treatment (generic GPO-VIR) to tens of thousands for new generation meds or somewhere much in between. e.g. my friend takes truvada and neravir = 2600 thb pr month. 6 monthly testing at anonymous clinic 300 thb = for cd4 and viral load test = 1500 thb. Prices at Chula and ramabodhi are similar.

A better choice for first line treatment (if you can afford it) would be Truvada + Efavirenz. Around 3400 baht a month at government hospitals if memory serves.

viramune, if tolerated the first 2 weeks, is the perfect alternative for people who don't tolerate efivarenz (stocrin) , it has been for 5 years, pls leave medical advise to the treating doctor, each case is different.

[maesai]

Viramune has been shown to be less potent than Efavirenz, requires taking meds twice a day versus once a day for Efavirenz, and is more toxic. If tolerated (and most people don't have a problem with it) Efavirenz / Truvada is the preferred regimine for first line treatment.

For more information, have a look at table 5 in the "Guidelines for the Use of Antiretroviral Agents in HIV-1-Infected Adults and Adolescents" published by the Department of Health and and Human Services (DHHS). Available here http://www.aidsinfo.nih.gov/contentfiles/AdultandAdolescentGL.pdf

[Sheryl]

The Thai Ministry of Public health has its own treatment protocols, which doctors in government hospitals are obliged to follow.

In any event the pros and cons of one first line treatment over another seems to be the least of this individual's problems.

[eurasianthai]

Just wanted to give the final update on this thread.

He died at 4 p.m. today. He was 27 years old.

Edited December 14, 2010 by eurasianthai

[eurasianthai]

He wanted to die because you just can not live with AIDS in Thailand.

You're just worth less than a dog.

Nobody will approach you or touch whatever you touched.

Makes me angry and sad.

[puuchai299]

Sorry to hear he has died so soon,may he rest in peace,you must be deeply saddened but you tried to help,thats admirable.

[JUDAS]

Just wanted to give the final update on this thread.

He died at 4 p.m. today. He was 27 years old.

So very sad. You did what you could eurasiathai.

[eurasianthai]

Thanks Puuchai and Judas but I'm still pretty angry about his death.

Because he thought that living in Thailand with Aids is just not possible.

He just could not live with the ostracism he was facing on a daily basis.

And I'm pretty sure he did not take the medicine we bought for him for that reason.

He just kept repeating he wanted to die, and he was only 27.

Another low for Thailand.

[seeker2]

I have a friend here in Thailand that was about the same shape as your friend. He took Sodium chlorite with a little citric acid. He started gaining weight back and after only 5 months is back to work. doctors are amazed and said "its like he never had it" What he took was 28% sodium chlorite mixed with 10% citric acid.

You can purchase sodium chlorite at any chemical supply company for around $30usd per 500 grams. this is enough to treat hundreds of people. Good luck with your relative. I will check back should you have questions. I believe I still have copies of his medical tests before and after his treatment with the sodium chlorite. I have only taken it for artheritis in the hips and hands. worked well for me.

[puuchai299]

I have a friend here in Thailand that was about the same shape as your friend. He took Sodium chlorite with a little citric acid. He started gaining weight back and after only 5 months is back to work. doctors are amazed and said "its like he never had it" What he took was 28% sodium chlorite mixed with 10% citric acid.

You can purchase sodium chlorite at any chemical supply company for around $30usd per 500 grams. this is enough to treat hundreds of people. Good luck with your relative. I will check back should you have questions. I believe I still have copies of his medical tests before and after his treatment with the sodium chlorite. I have only taken it for artheritis in the hips and hands. worked well for me.

Did you actually read this thread???

[seeker2]

I have a friend here in Thailand that was about the same shape as your friend. He took Sodium chlorite with a little citric acid. He started gaining weight back and after only 5 months is back to work. doctors are amazed and said "its like he never had it" What he took was 28% sodium chlorite mixed with 10% citric acid.

You can purchase sodium chlorite at any chemical supply company for around $30usd per 500 grams. this is enough to treat hundreds of people. Good luck with your relative. I will check back should you have questions. I believe I still have copies of his medical tests before and after his treatment with the sodium chlorite. I have only taken it for artheritis in the hips and hands. worked well for me.

Did you actually read this thread???

Yes as a matter of fact I did. I was responding to him asking for info about Aids. well it just so happens that I have a friend who had full blown aids and was skin and bones. Now he is back working. so what are you talking about. My post is relevant to the topic.

[puuchai299]

I have a friend here in Thailand that was about the same shape as your friend. He took Sodium chlorite with a little citric acid. He started gaining weight back and after only 5 months is back to work. doctors are amazed and said "its like he never had it" What he took was 28% sodium chlorite mixed with 10% citric acid.

You can purchase sodium chlorite at any chemical supply company for around $30usd per 500 grams. this is enough to treat hundreds of people. Good luck with your relative. I will check back should you have questions. I believe I still have copies of his medical tests before and after his treatment with the sodium chlorite. I have only taken it for artheritis in the hips and hands. worked well for me.

Did you actually read this thread???

Yes as a matter of fact I did. I was responding to him asking for info about Aids. well it just so happens that I have a friend who had full blown aids and was skin and bones. Now he is back working. so what are you talking about. My post is relevant to the topic.

( Good luck with your relative. I will check back should you have questions.) This is what i'm talking about,unless ive missed something here??

[seeker2]

( Good luck with your relative. I will check back should you have questions.) This is what i'm talking about,unless ive missed something here??

I thought OP said it was a relative that had aids. I mentioned I would check back with this thread, should OP have any questions regarding my friends treatments using sodium chlorite or should he want to see the test records of before and after the treatment.

[JUDAS]

The OP's relative unfortunately died a few days ago.