Engine Cooling Seems Marginal

[JAS21]

Guys

So more car problems, it’s getting hot in traffic. Now it’s boiled a couple of times when she has been absolutely stuck for some 10-15 minutes. I idle it in the our drive, after a run, and can’t get it to repeat the problem. So I guess part of the problem could be the high local air temperature in traffic jams.

Need to sort it quick before it gets expensive. It’s pretty clear that the cooling is marginal as under normal driving and the odd hold up there is no problem. The engine is gassed, switching back to gasoline in heavy traffic could be a short term solution.

Two electric fans, one starts with the air con and the other on temperature and both seem to cut in/cut out OK.

From what I’m told she is leaving it in ‘D’ for quite some time in these traffic jams, this could be part of the problem. The engine is old so maybe the water pump performance is down.

I see, this morning, that the auto oil level is at least one inch above the 25Deg C mark so I will get it lowered…maybe the garage added bit too much when they changed the drive shafts.

So I’m considering two things, hook out the thermostat…maybe improve the flow rate. Adding more coolant…how much can you use percentage wise? The manual says engine water volume is 6Ltrs.

Comments guys please

[katabeachbum]

Flush the radiator from engine bay frontwards with a garden hose.

Flush the cooling system with a bottled liquid to be purchased. Removes sediments and sh-t.

Mix a 40/60 coolant.

Run petrol only in traffic jams. LPG increases temp in head, valves and pistons, needing more cooling. In addition your new LPGsystem may run leaner than your previous, providing less cooling from excess LPG

So far almost no money spent

[pattayabuggy]

You could be describing my car, as it's exactly the same. This is an Audi 100. Runs fine, no overheating at all driving in Pattaya, even at the longest traffic light stops. If I use it in Bangkok it's a different story, traffic light stops infinity and beyond, then they go green and after some minutes crawl to the next red set. I solve the problem by stopping the engine and swelter in the heat. 

I have checked thermostat, engine fans all working, flushed radiator, both ways, several times. My car also on LPG, and I didn't know that ran hotter. It saves a packet in fuel costs. The problem is, the petrol tank is empty and it's not been run on petrol for years, like that when I bought it.

I am afraid to even try petrol now, I feel it's asking for trouble. The tank will be full of rust for a start. If I clean that out, what do you people think, will there likely be other problems?

I hope the OP doesn't mind me adding my own problems to the thread, but it's virtually the same story.

Thanks

[katabeachbum]

You could be describing my car, as it's exactly the same. This is an Audi 100. Runs fine, no overheating at all driving in Pattaya, even at the longest traffic light stops. If I use it in Bangkok it's a different story, traffic light stops infinity and beyond, then they go green and after some minutes crawl to the next red set. I solve the problem by stopping the engine and swelter in the heat.

I have checked thermostat, engine fans all working, flushed radiator, both ways, several times. My car also on LPG, and I didn't know that ran hotter. It saves a packet in fuel costs. The problem is, the petrol tank is empty and it's not been run on petrol for years, like that when I bought it.

I am afraid to even try petrol now, I feel it's asking for trouble. The tank will be full of rust for a start. If I clean that out, what do you people think, will there likely be other problems?

I hope the OP doesn't mind me adding my own problems to the thread, but it's virtually the same story.

Thanks

Most Audi 100 have fuel tank made of plastic.

I would fill up 5 liters of 91 gasoline (no gasohol/E10/E20) and see what happens. If fuel pump disconects when running LPG, it might still work. Any sh-t will be stopped by gasoline filter anyway, so no risk of harming engine

[garyh]

If the temp remains normal while driving the thermostat and inside radiator is most likely okay, may pay to check ignition timing also if it is too far advanced it will run hotter. Have you washed the insects and crap out of the fins of the radiator. Is the fan belt tight enough? does the car have a fan with a clutch hub is so would be good idea to check it too.

Edited November 28, 2010 by garyh

[WarpSpeed]

If the temp remains normal while driving the thermostat and inside radiator is most likely okay, may pay to check ignition timing also if it is too far advanced it will run hotter. Have you washed the insects and crap out of the fins of the radiator. Is the fan belt tight enough? does the car have a fan with a clutch hub is so would be good idea to check it too.

I partly agree, timing may be an issue but this an older car and if that hasn't been changed should not be a problem. I'm inclined to think the radiator is nearing the ends of it's life cycle and the metal has lost it's ability to transfer heat efficiently. A simple test to tell this is by poking your finger into a couple of obscure places like a corner and at least once in the center somewhere and see how well it resists your attempts to fold it over. If it is very weak, crumbles or folds easily the fins are crap and won't transfer heat properly. When at speed the radiator does less work as the airflow is good and forced through where as at idle in traffic it is more critical to work well..

Flushing when changing the radiator kills 2 birds with one stone and then if that doesn't solve the problem (though I'm certain it will help considerably so not a loss) consider an LP adjust as it may be too lean, and you just had it worked on correct? So a change from the usual is more likely but more fuel actually cools better then too little (to a point) which creates a more volatile ignition through adding too much air and then timing as well.

My concern now is that some additional damage may have been caused by overheating that will now mask the initial problem with aluminum heads depending on how hot it got and having been driven by your wife who knows how long once over heating??

Thanks for reminding me though I need to top off my anti-freeze which may also be weak in her car ...

Edited November 28, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Kwasaki]

You also mentioned quote :- " From what I'm told she is leaving it in 'D' for quite some time in these traffic jams " with autos I believe it's always best to knock it out of drive while at traffic lights or in jams, especially in the heat of Thailand.

I suspect it would be more of a problem that just that.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Kwasaki

[WarpSpeed]

I'm sorry guys but there are too many cold weather sorts here giving advice on hot weather issues. The car should not have any problems in any gear while sitting in any heat if the cooling system is operating properly so that is merely a symptom of another more critical problem that is not going to heal itself but merely get worse..

Find the REAL problem and correct it and no more overheating in D at stop lights or any other for that matter at any time... It's certain it's been in D at lights for years now and no problem prior not even likely your wife just started doing that while the car did just begin overheating..

I'm also quite certain she's surrounded by other cars also in 'D' and the roads are not littered with overheating cars now are they?? And I'm not just speaking about one or 2 on occasion but en mass as would be the case if that were the problem..

Edited November 28, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[garyh]

Find the REAL problem and correct it and no more overheating in D at stop lights or any other for that matter at any time... It's certain it's been in D at lights for years now and no problem prior not even likely your wife just started doing that while the car did just begin overheating..

no sh_t

[WarpSpeed]

No s__t eh? The point that obviously escaped you based on your answer is that being that leaving the car in 'D' or something else similar is not causing the overheating and other mechanical suggestions made are more likely to be the problem, dimwit........ .. You're some kind of dull tool aren't you?

Edited November 29, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[garyh]

No s__t eh? The point that obviously escaped you based on your answer is that being that leaving the car in 'D' or something else similar is not causing the overheating and other mechanical suggestions made are more likely to be the problem, dimwit........ .. You're some kind of dull tool aren't you?

But I never said anything about leaving it in D.

[WarpSpeed]

No s__t eh? The point that obviously escaped you based on your answer is that being that leaving the car in 'D' or something else similar is not causing the overheating and other mechanical suggestions made are more likely to be the problem, dimwit........ .. You're some kind of dull tool aren't you?

I think the point being made is it is an old car, the cooling system will not operate at 100% as when newish. Lots of stuff will/could be bunged up a bit and the rad will not be as efficient

.

If stuck in traffic for extended periods and left in D there will be excessive heat build up. If the auto trans fluid is cooled via the engine rad excessive heat transfer or under hood high temps COULD tip the balance.

Remember these are all possibles for the OP to consider.

You're taking a piss right?? You honestly think based on my post that I don't understand that?? I'm the ONLY one saying that and that is ONLY a symptom and not a solution so I'm suggesting that he find the REAL problem as has been recommended and correct it and not concern himself with trying to explain to his wife to take it out of 'D' when in traffic as that is not only unlikely to correct the problem in the first place but if it has any unlikely effect, eventually that is not going to resolve his problem either as these things don't fix themselves they just get worse.. Is there still ambiguity in that explanation? I sure hope not..

[JAS21]

OK Guys…thanks for all your comments

First the car is used by my step-daughter, educationally is very well qualified but EQ is a little lacking!, now its done some 212,000kms and half of that on gas. In a previous topic I highlighted that using gas has saved over 200,000Baht in fuel costs since it was gassed.

It has been a dog for a while! Some two plus years ago a Mazda mechanic made it run nicely but then he left the garage and the garage were then basically useless, they even mistakenly changed the gearbox oil without changing the associated filter, so the bands got scored…never a smooth change again from the low gears.

Anyway we managed to trace this guy and he now has his own business. We had a look around his garage , he is very busy and I saw what his staff were doing....not bodgers…rare in Thailand.

I knew that the engine was basically fu__ed,(and other bits getting that way) compressions were poor when they were checked a couple of years ago. Also the air flow measurement was erratic, it wouldn't idle smoothly, down on power, engine revs sometimes had a mind of their own (both on gasoline and LPG).

Anyway they looked at the car and detailed the causes, repairing would only be a short term solution and was nearly half the price of a unit change. So bit the bullet, complete engine/auto gearbox change, this includes the ECU, alternator, drive shafts the lot. Engines come direct from Japan, not bought from some 2nd hand shop here. He says about 60K kms. Everything warranty for one month….ample time to make sure it's ok I think. Also I can have anything off the old engine…alternator/distributor (quite new)/drive shafts etc.

He said that he would refit the gas system, but the gas system supplier said he would do it at a later date. Better for the warranty. So there goes 45,000baht (but step-daughter will contribute monthly for it…she needs to understand that running a car is not just the fuel!…..I'll update in a couple of weeks and let you know if it really does run nicely, and hopefully for another 100,000-150,000kms. Really only going this way, instead of the scrap heap, as this was my wifes car, new in '95 and the rest is basically almost good.

Edited November 30, 2010 by katabeachbum
another posters mod critics quoted

[Badbanker]

Over the past 25 years of being in Thailand and after having owned a number of 4 wheeled dogs with marginal engines I have learnt that excellent engine cooling is absolutely essential.  

On almost every used car I have ever owned I have found it has been necessary to replace the radiator from day one.   Most radiator shops have new copper radiator cores to fit every car that is made.  They fit the original top and bottom radiator tanks a new core that has an extra row of core and as such they have 25-33% better cooling capacity.   They can also arrange for large aluminium cores for some cars if required.

I have seen 2 row cores replaced by 3 row cores and standard 3 row cores replaced by 4 row cores.  

Most cars and pickups in the past 10 years have aluminium radiator cores and there are shops that specialise in fitting larger radiators for these as well.

As you can imagine this gives a significant improvement in rejection and longer life to your engine.

Try it your engine will love it!

BB

[JAS21]

OK an update

Got the car back yesterday, 46,950Baht. As I said replacement engine,auto gearbox,ECU,starter motor,alternator, power steering pump etc. They also changed one of the cooling fans, apparently a bit iffee and anyway the wrong type, and some of the engine mountains. Mobil 1 oil and filter, fixed the faulty window, big design fault on the Lantis and attached the exhaust correctly. I agreed to leave the gas system off for one month, so that he could send the engine back if any fault developed and my wife talked him into giving an extra five months even if with it gassed.

He gave me all the bits that I wanted off of the old engine that would fit onto the replacement one if ever required, Mazda bits are expensive.

It is running really well, the engine is smooth on idle..big change..drops back to idle very quickly when reved..gear change is smooth and as yet it hasn't boiled...and I don't expect it to!

So if anyone wants their Mazda sorting or servicing then I can recommend this guy...just PM me...actually I did see something in there other than a Mazda, but that is all I know...his english is quite limited so you need to speak 'technical' Thai or take a helper.

If anyone wants the TUNING programme for the gas system AND the English translation for FITTING and TUNING, I found it on the internet...just ask. You just plug the system into your laptop and drive...it auto calibrates etc.

Just got to take the engine change paperwork, well my wife will, to the 'Powers At Be' to update the log book.