Becoming Expat

[MrMon]

Sorry for late response to the help, but I have been off-line in Singapore.

Some great informative / constructive replies, which is why I wanted to join Thaivisa.com forum in the first place.

Thanks for the advice; I will let all know the outcome although I doubt that will be overnight.

[saraburioz]

I don't know the specific of the U.K. but my understanding based on experience in different countries, is you have to inform as soon as possible your tax office that you're leaving the country and therefore you ask to be exempt of revenue declaration ... They will then explain you what you have to do. It's also important to do the same when your expat contract ends and you're leaving your country of expatriation. Usually in both case they the tax department will ask you to pay your tax in full before leaving. If you don't do it, you may be arrested at the border next time you visit the country, even for a short stop over.

One would have thought this kind of statement would raise the interest of more than one TV member.

In conclusion, JurgenG claims that there's a country which will have you arrested at re-entry in case you failed to declare your departure and/or filed to pay your tax in full. Due to my profession I have a certain interest in this area and I would like to investigate this further. So for this reason I cant seem to understand why JurgenG refuses to give information as to which country he is talking about.

Thailand?

Germany?

UK?

JurgenG, which country is enforcing this law?

Pretty obvious, ain't it?

[Forethat]

Pretty obvious, ain't it?

Totally.

I was just hoping JurgenG wasn't rambling about something he didn't actually know a flying fig about - I am still interested in knowing if there is a country which enforces this in a similar way.

[saraburioz]

Pretty obvious, ain't it?

Totally.

I was just hoping JurgenG wasn't rambling about something he didn't actually know a flying fig about - I am still interested in knowing if there is a country which enforces this in a similar way.

Read his post again - if you can't figure out which counrty he refers to, read it again.

[Forethat]

Pretty obvious, ain't it?

Totally.

I was just hoping JurgenG wasn't rambling about something he didn't actually know a flying fig about - I am still interested in knowing if there is a country which enforces this in a similar way.

Read his post again - if you can't figure out which counrty he refers to, read it again.

I don't know the specific of the U.K. but my understanding based on experience in different countries

It's pretty conclusive that he doesn't refer to UK, which is the only country he mentions. Contrary, he actually points out that he doesn't know the specifics of the UK in this area (which for once is a correct piece of information!). FYI, U.K does NOT enforce this law in the way JurgenG describes (making the rambling just as bad due to the fact that this is completely and utterly incorrect).

So the question remains: which country is JurgenG referring to?

You want to read JurgenG:s post one more time, perhaps..!? Or two!? Or three!?

[astral]

I phoned the inland revenue. Told them I lived in Thailand. They asked whether I planned to return to the UK in the next year. I said no. They registered me as non-resident and gave me a refund on the previous years tax I'd paid in the UK.

I find that rather strange.

I have been registered as Non Resident and Not Ordinarily Resident for years,

BUT I have still had to pay tax on income derived from the UK, Property rental.

After taking into account my personal allowance and expenses.

All this was handled by my accountants.

[Forethat]

What is important is that we manage to flush out which country will have you arrested if you fail to comply with tax regulations (which may include paying tax in full prior to departure).

JurgenG appears to have knowledge of at least one country where this is enforced. I urge JurgenG to come forward and inform us of which country it is. For all I know it might be Thailand - I have no knowledge about Thai tax regulation and enforcement of tax evation and similar criminal acts.

[F1fanatic]

i have friends who do not pay UK tax on their UK occupational pensions.

They have elected to be dealt with under Thai taxation rules.

News to me. I'm receiving an occupational pension and was told by Inland Revenue that the UK does not have reciprocal agreements with Thailand - so I pay UK tax on the pension.

[Forethat]

i have friends who do not pay UK tax on their UK occupational pensions.

They have elected to be dealt with under Thai taxation rules.

News to me. I'm receiving an occupational pension and was told by Inland Revenue that the UK does not have reciprocal agreements with Thailand - so I pay UK tax on the pension.

Correct. And even of there were such agreement with Thailand, a bilateral double taxation treaty is only in effect for income earned abroad - pension is not earned in the current country of residency.

[Forethat]

I don't know the specific of the U.K. but my understanding based on experience in different countries, is you have to inform as soon as possible your tax office that you're leaving the country and therefore you ask to be exempt of revenue declaration ... They will then explain you what you have to do. It's also important to do the same when your expat contract ends and you're leaving your country of expatriation. Usually in both case they the tax department will ask you to pay your tax in full before leaving. If you don't do it, you may be arrested at the border next time you visit the country, even for a short stop over.

JurgenG, once I again I request for information regarding the country where you claim one can get arrested at arrival if you have previously failed to fulfill the requirements accordingly.

[JurgenG]

I don't know the specific of the U.K. but my understanding based on experience in different countries, is you have to inform as soon as possible your tax office that you're leaving the country and therefore you ask to be exempt of revenue declaration ... They will then explain you what you have to do. It's also important to do the same when your expat contract ends and you're leaving your country of expatriation. Usually in both case they the tax department will ask you to pay your tax in full before leaving. If you don't do it, you may be arrested at the border next time you visit the country, even for a short stop over.

JurgenG, once I again I request for information regarding the country where you claim one can get arrested at arrival if you have previously failed to fulfill the requirements accordingly.

Forthat, it's not the kind of information you can give like this, in a public forum.

I will be very happy to meet you, and I 've a couple of friends that would be happy to share a happy moment with you as well. I understand you live near Pattaya, and je peu parle francais un peu aussi.

It's time to end this conversation, so your time will me my time.

[Forethat]

I don't know the specific of the U.K. but my understanding based on experience in different countries, is you have to inform as soon as possible your tax office that you're leaving the country and therefore you ask to be exempt of revenue declaration ... They will then explain you what you have to do. It's also important to do the same when your expat contract ends and you're leaving your country of expatriation. Usually in both case they the tax department will ask you to pay your tax in full before leaving. If you don't do it, you may be arrested at the border next time you visit the country, even for a short stop over.

JurgenG, once I again I request for information regarding the country where you claim one can get arrested at arrival if you have previously failed to fulfill the requirements accordingly.

Forthat, it's not the kind of information you can give like this, in a public forum.

Oh, really. Why is that? You said clearly that there was a country where you could get arrested if you returned after failing to comply with regulatory requirements in terms of taxation. You only have to let me know which country it is. Presumably, the country in question could be Thailand or any other country from which TV members originates.

In my opinion that's the exact kind of information you can give on a public forum, and I am pretty confident a majority of posters on here agree.

[cardholder]

Despite the personal battle that is going on - I agree with what you say.

If a poster i.e. Jurgen makes such an assertion he should answer the question. By not doing so he is coming across as a bull-shitter who made a throw-away comment that he cannot substantiate. That loses all credibility now, and for future posts.

I think "put up, or shut up" covers it.

[JurgenG]

In my opinion that's the exact kind of information you can give on a public forum, and I am pretty confident a majority of posters on here agree.

And I insist to offer you a drink. And I'm sure a number of poster here would be very happy to join. Why don't you accept my invitation ??

Ok, I understand, drinking beer with mates in a bar is so "low class" . Fine, you can have a cup of tea if you like. Or tu prefere le vin rouge ?

[Forethat]

Post removed.

[JurgenG]

Tax evasion is illegally avoiding paying taxes, failing to report, or reporting inaccurately.

After the (CID) has conducted an investigation and has recommended prosecution to the Justice Department, there are three crimes with which an individual may be charged:

• Tax evasion: This is an intentional violation of tax laws. It is a broad category, encompassing any cheating of the government in taxes. Tax evasion is a FELONY and a very serious crime. A conviction for tax evasion can carry with it up to a five-year prison sentence and/or fines up to $100,000.
• Filing a false return: Prosecution for this crime is appropriate when a taxpayer has provided the government with false or misleading information on the taxpayer's tax return. In such cases, the government does not have to prove the taxpayer intended to evade tax laws. Rather, it merely must prove that the taxpayer filed a false return. Filing a false return is a felony. Punishment for this crime can consist of up to three years in prison and/or up to $100,000 in fines.
• Not filing a tax return at all: Failing to file a tax return is the least serious of the three tax crimes. It is a MISDEMEANOR. The consequences for being found guilty is a maximum of 1 year in prison and/or fines totaling up to $25,000 for each year a taxpayer failed to file.

A taxpayer may be arrested once the taxpayer has been charged with one of these three crimes. If so, the taxpayer may be required to post BAIL or may be released on his or her own recognizance. Once charged, it is imperative that the ACCUSED taxpayer retain a tax attorney as soon as possible. The lawyer will need time to study the client's case and formulate a defense. Taxpayers need to keep in mind that the IRS has already completed their investigation and has most likely built a strong case against the accused taxpayer.

If a taxpayer does not file a return in an effort to evade taxes, the IRS can pursue felony charges, including a fine up to $100,000 or a maximum of 5 years in jail. While INCARCERATION is rare, the threat is real and should deter those considering evading taxes.

That's for the US but the law is pretty similar for most western countries.

For more details, just type "tax evasion" on google

[cardholder]

Tax evasion is illegally avoiding paying taxes, failing to report, or reporting inaccurately.

After the (CID) has conducted an investigation and has recommended prosecution to the Justice Department, there are three crimes with which an individual may be charged:

• Tax evasion: This is an intentional violation of tax laws. It is a broad category, encompassing any cheating of the government in taxes. Tax evasion is a FELONY and a very serious crime. A conviction for tax evasion can carry with it up to a five-year prison sentence and/or fines up to $100,000.
• Filing a false return: Prosecution for this crime is appropriate when a taxpayer has provided the government with false or misleading information on the taxpayer's tax return. In such cases, the government does not have to prove the taxpayer intended to evade tax laws. Rather, it merely must prove that the taxpayer filed a false return. Filing a false return is a felony. Punishment for this crime can consist of up to three years in prison and/or up to $100,000 in fines.
• Not filing a tax return at all: Failing to file a tax return is the least serious of the three tax crimes. It is a MISDEMEANOR. The consequences for being found guilty is a maximum of 1 year in prison and/or fines totaling up to $25,000 for each year a taxpayer failed to file.

A taxpayer may be arrested once the taxpayer has been charged with one of these three crimes. If so, the taxpayer may be required to post BAIL or may be released on his or her own recognizance. Once charged, it is imperative that the ACCUSED taxpayer retain a tax attorney as soon as possible. The lawyer will need time to study the client's case and formulate a defense. Taxpayers need to keep in mind that the IRS has already completed their investigation and has most likely built a strong case against the accused taxpayer.

If a taxpayer does not file a return in an effort to evade taxes, the IRS can pursue felony charges, including a fine up to $100,000 or a maximum of 5 years in jail. While INCARCERATION is rare, the threat is real and should deter those considering evading taxes.

That's for the US but the law is pretty similar for most western countries.

For more details, just type "tax evasion" on google

Forgive me because I didn't read all this cut & paste drivel so just show me where it says that "you get arrested on arrival".

[whybother]

Post removed.

[craigt3365]

Ok guys. Let's calm down. The topic is "Becoming an Expat". Let's not scare this newbie off Thaivisa! Group hug, back on topic. OK?

Edit: Posts removed for flaming other members. One warning given. Vacations are next. This is a great topic, please don't stray.

[F1fanatic]

Posting on TV we all have to learn to become extremely thick-skinned!

[NanLaew]

I left the UK to work overseas in 1977. I turned in my NI contribution card as advised since there was no point in making NI contributions while working overseas. I planned on two, maybe three years as middle east oilfield trash, making money tax-free.

It's now almost 2011 and I have 'lived' in about five different countries while working in about three dozen more... tax free. I think I did a short job in the Norwegian North Sea and got a tax rebate but that was a long time ago.

What's all this "taxation" that people keep yacking on about?

BTW, I much prefer the term 'International Gypsy' to 'Expatriate'... in fact I think I will file for copyright on that term.

[Forethat]

Tax evasion is illegally avoiding paying taxes, failing to report, or reporting inaccurately.

After the (CID) has conducted an investigation and has recommended prosecution to the Justice Department, there are three crimes with which an individual may be charged:

• Tax evasion: This is an intentional violation of tax laws. It is a broad category, encompassing any cheating of the government in taxes. Tax evasion is a FELONY and a very serious crime. A conviction for tax evasion can carry with it up to a five-year prison sentence and/or fines up to $100,000.
• Filing a false return: Prosecution for this crime is appropriate when a taxpayer has provided the government with false or misleading information on the taxpayer's tax return. In such cases, the government does not have to prove the taxpayer intended to evade tax laws. Rather, it merely must prove that the taxpayer filed a false return. Filing a false return is a felony. Punishment for this crime can consist of up to three years in prison and/or up to $100,000 in fines.
• Not filing a tax return at all: Failing to file a tax return is the least serious of the three tax crimes. It is a MISDEMEANOR. The consequences for being found guilty is a maximum of 1 year in prison and/or fines totaling up to $25,000 for each year a taxpayer failed to file.

A taxpayer may be arrested once the taxpayer has been charged with one of these three crimes. If so, the taxpayer may be required to post BAIL or may be released on his or her own recognizance. Once charged, it is imperative that the ACCUSED taxpayer retain a tax attorney as soon as possible. The lawyer will need time to study the client's case and formulate a defense. Taxpayers need to keep in mind that the IRS has already completed their investigation and has most likely built a strong case against the accused taxpayer.

If a taxpayer does not file a return in an effort to evade taxes, the IRS can pursue felony charges, including a fine up to $100,000 or a maximum of 5 years in jail. While INCARCERATION is rare, the threat is real and should deter those considering evading taxes.

That's for the US but the law is pretty similar for most western countries.

For more details, just type "tax evasion" on google

Well, I doubt that you'll find anyone on TV who is going to dispute the Sherlock Holmes-obvious fact that there are countries where you're in risk of being sentenced to prison in case you're found guilty of tax evasion.

Leaving the country could potentially evolve in a situation where you'll get sentenced for not filing your tax return. As you're pointing out, in US it's referred to as a misdemeanor; in many other countries it's called a minor offence.

Leaving the country without notifying the tax authorities of intentions to remain abroad for a longer period than the required in order to be exempt of income declaration (or any similar requirement specific to the country in question), is by no means an offence, hence you will not get arrested for it.

As I have pointed out previously, I'd be interested in information indicating which country practices arrests on arrival in case a citizen fails to

"inform as soon as possible your tax office that you're leaving the country and therefore you ask to be exempt of revenue declaration".

But thanks for pointing out to us that Tax evasion is a separate issue that could render imprisonment in USA.

[KTD]

Sorry for late response to the help, but I have been off-line in Singapore.

Some great informative / constructive replies, which is why I wanted to join Thaivisa.com forum in the first place.

Thanks for the advice; I will let all know the outcome although I doubt that will be overnight.

I think there are some pretty informative and well intended posts here as well but also some that make me laugh at

what their interpretation must be of expatriate and/or non residents.

Welcome to Thai visa by the way. don't mind the peanut gallery postings, most are usually meant in good humor then misunderstood lol!

I have the "Gypsy" rigging type lifestyle as NanLaew mentions and have had the tax issue come up many times. Best advise I can give is for any solid information you want

or any issues at all with regards to tax you should look to a good tax attorney before contacting anyone official (or paying any taxes lol!)

do not consult with an accountant, a tax attorney is who you want.

For advantage and disadvantage of expatriate life it all depends on your individual circumstance ie: what country your working, living, banking. etc..

The main advantage is the tax though, by investing, saving, banking or doing business outside your country and/or offshore you can benefit

from tax free asset growth and greater privacy.

[Forethat]

Oh, I almost forgot...

JurgenG, which country??

[metisdead]

One post re-instated, one post commenting on moderation has been removed. In future use the PM function to discuss moderation issues.