WikiLeaks website again offline after company cuts DNS service

[Ulysses G.]

WikiLeaks gets some of its own medicine.

You think so?

...So far the denial-of-service attacks (DDoS), which swamp a site with so many requests that it becomes overwhelmed, have failed to take any sites offline

I certainly do.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[mark45y]

A Taliban spokesman in Afghanistan using the pseudonym Zabiullah Mujahid said in a telephone interview that the Taliban had formed a nine-member "commission" after the Afghan documents were posted "to find about people who are spying." He said the Taliban had a "wanted" list of 1,800 Afghans and was comparing that with names WikiLeaks provided. "After the process is completed, our Taliban court will decide about such people," he said.

You think the Afghani guy with the $ 52 million cash is amongst those on the list ?

The Taliban has a "wanted list"...oh I'm sure. ALL western soldiers and aid staff are on that list; what the heck are you talking about

As of October 20, 2010, there have been 2,095 coalition deaths in Afghanistan as part of ongoing coalition operations (Operation Enduring Freedom and ISAF) since the invasion in 2001.^[1]

from Wiki.

Since when are you listening to what the Taliban has to say?

LaoPo

A Taliban spokesman in Afghanistan using the pseudonym Zabiullah Mujahid said in a telephone interview that the Taliban had formed a nine-member "commission" after the Afghan documents were posted "to find about people who are spying." He said the Taliban had a "wanted" list of 1,800 Afghans and was comparing that with names WikiLeaks provided. "After the process is completed, our Taliban court will decide about such people," he said.

Tha Taliban will kill the people that have been identified by WikiLeaks. By promoting WikiLeaks you are participating in that effort. If he says 9 good things and 1 bad thing, he still says one bad thing. The 9 good things don't make up for the one bad thing especially if it is murder. The Taliban are those people who video beheadings in case you forgot. I could include a link if you like. They post the beheadings on the INTERNET you know. I realize you approach this whole issue with the light heartedness of a liberal college crusade but perhaps you should watch the Taliban teaching that 12 year old boy how to behead a guy.

Just four days after the documents were published, death threats began arriving at the homes of key tribal elders in southern Afghanistan. And over the weekend one tribal elder, Khalifa Abdullah, who the Taliban believed had been in close contact with the Americans, was taken from his home in Monar village, in Kandahar province’s embattled Arghandab district, and executed by insurgent gunmen. The Taliban officer claimed that the group’s English-language media department continues to actively examine the WikiLeaks material and intends to draw up lists of collaborators in each province, to add to the hit lists of local insurgent commanders.

Newsweek.

[SergeiY]

A Taliban spokesman in Afghanistan using the pseudonym Zabiullah Mujahid said in a telephone interview that the Taliban had formed a nine-member "commission" after the Afghan documents were posted "to find about people who are spying." He said the Taliban had a "wanted" list of 1,800 Afghans and was comparing that with names WikiLeaks provided. "After the process is completed, our Taliban court will decide about such people," he said.

You think the Afghani guy with the $ 52 million cash is amongst those on the list ?

The Taliban has a "wanted list"...oh I'm sure. ALL western soldiers and aid staff are on that list; what the heck are you talking about

As of October 20, 2010, there have been 2,095 coalition deaths in Afghanistan as part of ongoing coalition operations (Operation Enduring Freedom and ISAF) since the invasion in 2001.^[1]

from Wiki.

Since when are you listening to what the Taliban has to say?

LaoPo

A Taliban spokesman in Afghanistan using the pseudonym Zabiullah Mujahid said in a telephone interview that the Taliban had formed a nine-member "commission" after the Afghan documents were posted "to find about people who are spying." He said the Taliban had a "wanted" list of 1,800 Afghans and was comparing that with names WikiLeaks provided. "After the process is completed, our Taliban court will decide about such people," he said.

Tha Taliban will kill the people that have been identified by WikiLeaks. By promoting WikiLeaks you are participating in that effort. If he says 9 good things and 1 bad thing, he still says one bad thing. The 9 good things don't make up for the one bad thing especially if it is murder. The Taliban are those people who video beheadings in case you forgot. I could include a link if you like. They post the beheadings on the INTERNET you know. I realize you approach this whole issue with the light heartedness of a liberal college crusade but perhaps you should watch the Taliban teaching that 12 year old boy how to behead a guy.

Just four days after the documents were published, death threats began arriving at the homes of key tribal elders in southern Afghanistan. And over the weekend one tribal elder, Khalifa Abdullah, who the Taliban believed had been in close contact with the Americans, was taken from his home in Monar village, in Kandahar province’s embattled Arghandab district, and executed by insurgent gunmen. The Taliban officer claimed that the group’s English-language media department continues to actively examine the WikiLeaks material and intends to draw up lists of collaborators in each province, to add to the hit lists of local insurgent commanders.

Newsweek.

where did you get this information from? please make clear what you quoted from somewhere else and what are your own words. and give a link to the source in case of a quote.

Who is "Zabiullah Mujahid"? A official taliban spokes person? Do you believe everything what he will tell you?

lol

[SweeneyAgonistes]

^ That's pretty much what I thought. If they can produce a corpse, then the criticism might be worth paying attention to but all this, "A guy in the pub with a big beard told me that his mate Abdullah's gonna blow up yankistan coz what he read on wikileaks" is just ridiculous.

[pipo1000]

Julian Assange Has Been Arrested

http://finance.yahoo...=6&asset==

[philw]

WikiLeaks gets some of its own medicine.

You think so?

Wikileaks defended by hacktivists

7 December 2010 Last updated at 12:40 GMT

Internet hacktivists have fired the latest salvo in the Wikileaks infowar.

A group called Anonymous has hit sites that have refused to do business with the controversial whistle-blowing site with a series of distributed denial-of-service attacks.

It mirrors similar attacks aimed at the Wikileaks site.

Targets include the Swiss bank that froze founder Julian Assange's assets and PayPal which has stopped processing donations to Wikileaks.

Anonymous is a loose-knit group of hacktivists, with links to the notorious message board 4chan.

Increased traffic

A member of Anonymous who calls himself Coldblood told the BBC that "multiple things are being done".

"Websites that are bowing down to government pressure have become targets," he said.

"As an organisation we have always taken a strong stance on censorship and freedom of expression on the internet and come out against those who seek to destroy it by any means."

"We feel that Wikileaks has become more than just about leaking of documents, it has become a war ground, the people vs. the government," he said.

So far the denial-of-service attacks (DDoS), which swamp a site with so many requests that it becomes overwhelmed, have failed to take any sites offline although that is not the point of the attack, according to Coldblood.

DDoS attacks are illegal in many countries, including the UK.

"The idea is not to wipe them off but to give the companies a wake-up call," he said. "Companies will notice the increase in traffic and an increase in traffic means increase in costs associated with running a website."

Continues:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-11935539

Note: this is a serious Internet War and suppressive and corrupt Governments can't do a thing about it. FINALLY the people have a tool the former can't stop (anymore*).

* Thanks to a great American: Daniel Ellsberg who exposed the PENTAGON PAPERS !

We should start an action to raise money for 2 statues in Bronze in front of Congress; 1 for Daniel Ellsberg and 1 for Julian Assange called:

The Leak Brothers...

LaoPo

Great one LP.

[animatic]

Ole Jullian has made more enemies in a few weeks than most 100 people make in 10 lifetimes. And it is certainly NOT just Americans, but high up, and no doubt sensitive people in many, many, many governments. And others, not presently outed, are no doubt afraid their words said in discretion are coming out shortly. There no doubt is more stuff to be had and found, and sent to Wikileaks. I'll venture there are more than a 2 dozen secret services advised to make 'sure' this doesn't happen again, by making this one stop abruptly and definitively in a way that will make others think twice, and yet again twice, before sending things to this group. Yank the tigers tail, you might get away with, but shoot BB's at a dozen tigers from within the cage, and your ass is lunch for several.

[mark45y]

A Taliban spokesman in Afghanistan using the pseudonym Zabiullah Mujahid said in a telephone interview that the Taliban had formed a nine-member "commission" after the Afghan documents were posted "to find about people who are spying." He said the Taliban had a "wanted" list of 1,800 Afghans and was comparing that with names WikiLeaks provided. "After the process is completed, our Taliban court will decide about such people," he said.

You think the Afghani guy with the $ 52 million cash is amongst those on the list ?

The Taliban has a "wanted list"...oh I'm sure. ALL western soldiers and aid staff are on that list; what the heck are you talking about

As of October 20, 2010, there have been 2,095 coalition deaths in Afghanistan as part of ongoing coalition operations (Operation Enduring Freedom and ISAF) since the invasion in 2001.^[1]

from Wiki.

Since when are you listening to what the Taliban has to say?

LaoPo

A Taliban spokesman in Afghanistan using the pseudonym Zabiullah Mujahid said in a telephone interview that the Taliban had formed a nine-member "commission" after the Afghan documents were posted "to find about people who are spying." He said the Taliban had a "wanted" list of 1,800 Afghans and was comparing that with names WikiLeaks provided. "After the process is completed, our Taliban court will decide about such people," he said.

Tha Taliban will kill the people that have been identified by WikiLeaks. By promoting WikiLeaks you are participating in that effort. If he says 9 good things and 1 bad thing, he still says one bad thing. The 9 good things don't make up for the one bad thing especially if it is murder. The Taliban are those people who video beheadings in case you forgot. I could include a link if you like. They post the beheadings on the INTERNET you know. I realize you approach this whole issue with the light heartedness of a liberal college crusade but perhaps you should watch the Taliban teaching that 12 year old boy how to behead a guy.

Just four days after the documents were published, death threats began arriving at the homes of key tribal elders in southern Afghanistan. And over the weekend one tribal elder, Khalifa Abdullah, who the Taliban believed had been in close contact with the Americans, was taken from his home in Monar village, in Kandahar province’s embattled Arghandab district, and executed by insurgent gunmen. The Taliban officer claimed that the group’s English-language media department continues to actively examine the WikiLeaks material and intends to draw up lists of collaborators in each province, to add to the hit lists of local insurgent commanders.

Newsweek.

where did you get this information from? please make clear what you quoted from somewhere else and what are your own words. and give a link to the source in case of a quote.

Who is "Zabiullah Mujahid"? A official taliban spokes person? Do you believe everything what he will tell you?

lol

Taliban Seeks Vengeance in Wake of WikiLeaks Leaked U.S. Intel documents listed the names and villages of Afghan collaborators—and the Taliban is starting to retaliate.

http://www.newsweek.com/

Zabiullah Mujahid has a wiki site.

[metisdead]

Let's stop with the insults please.

[animatic]

Julian Assange Has Been Arrested

http://finance.yahoo...=6&asset==

So here comes his poison pill release.

info terrorism on a grand scale.

I doubt the USA will take him out, they want a show case trial,

but there are others who might take less kindly to letting him keep this up

if their words, said in confidence, about their neighbors are broadcast world wide...

There are too many players for this to be kept in control.

Edited December 7, 2010 by animatic

[mark45y]

^ That's pretty much what I thought. If they can produce a corpse, then the criticism might be worth paying attention to but all this, "A guy in the pub with a big beard told me that his mate Abdullah's gonna blow up yankistan coz what he read on wikileaks" is just ridiculous.

WWW.Newsweek.com

After WikiLeaks published a trove of U.S. intelligence documents—some of which listed the names and villages of Afghans who had been secretly cooperating with the American military—it didn’t take long for the Taliban to react. A spokesman for the group quickly threatened to “punish” any Afghan listed as having “collaborated” with the U.S. and the Kabul authorities against the growing Taliban insurgency. In recent days, the Taliban has demonstrated how seriously those threats should be considered. Late last week, just four days after the documents were published, death threats began arriving at the homes of key tribal elders in southern Afghanistan. And over the weekend one tribal elder, Khalifa Abdullah, who the Taliban believed had been in close contact with the Americans, was taken from his home in Monar village, in Kandahar province’s embattled Arghandab district, and executed by insurgent gunmen.

[A_Traveller]

^ Maybe you should take time to read carefully what you post. If you do, you will see that there is no claim that the leaked data [earlier this year] put Khalifa Abdullah in any danger. The reality is that the Taliban had suspicions and acted upon them. I am not aware of any deaths being directly attributed to WikiLeaks releases of Afghanistan data. In fact chief Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell has said previously that there was no evidence that anyone had been killed because of the leaks. This is still as far as I know the reality.

Regards Edit to remove unnecessary quotes//

Edited December 7, 2010 by A_Traveller

[mark45y]

^ Maybe you should take time to read carefully what you post. If you do, you will see that there is no claim that the leaked data [earlier this year] put Khalifa Abdullah in any danger. The reality is that the Taliban had suspicions and acted upon them. I am not aware of any deaths being directly attributed to WikiLeaks releases of Afghanistan data. In fact chief Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell has said previously that there was no evidence that anyone had been killed because of the leaks. This is still as far as I know the reality.

Regards Edit to remove unnecessary quotes//

This was in the Huffington Post. Human rights groups said Tuesday they've asked WikiLeaks to censor secret files on the Afghanistan war to protect civilians who've worked alongside the U.S. and other foreign forces from reprisals.

The Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, Amnesty International and three other groups have sent a series of e-mails to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange calling for the names of Afghan civilians to be removed from the 77,000 classified military documents published by the online whistle-blower last month.

Nader Nadery, of the commission, said the groups want the names removed from files already released, and from any documents disclosed in the future.

"There was no consideration about civilian lives," Nadery said, noting a rise in assassinations of Afghan civilians seen as government collaborators.

"We said that in the future the names should be redacted and the ones that are already there need to be taken down. Even though it's late, it still worth doing," Nadery said. He said the group had not yet received any response to its requests.

End quote.

Maybe these groups were just blowing smoke but if you lived in Afghanistan how would feel about the safety of yourself and family?

[SergeiY]

A Taliban spokesman in Afghanistan using the pseudonym Zabiullah Mujahid said in a telephone interview that the Taliban had formed a nine-member "commission" after the Afghan documents were posted "to find about people who are spying." He said the Taliban had a "wanted" list of 1,800 Afghans and was comparing that with names WikiLeaks provided. "After the process is completed, our Taliban court will decide about such people," he said.

Tha Taliban will kill the people that have been identified by WikiLeaks. By promoting WikiLeaks you are participating in that effort. If he says 9 good things and 1 bad thing, he still says one bad thing. The 9 good things don't make up for the one bad thing especially if it is murder. The Taliban are those people who video beheadings in case you forgot. I could include a link if you like. They post the beheadings on the INTERNET you know. I realize you approach this whole issue with the light heartedness of a liberal college crusade but perhaps you should watch the Taliban teaching that 12 year old boy how to behead a guy.

Just four days after the documents were published, death threats began arriving at the homes of key tribal elders in southern Afghanistan. And over the weekend one tribal elder, Khalifa Abdullah, who the Taliban believed had been in close contact with the Americans, was taken from his home in Monar village, in Kandahar province’s embattled Arghandab district, and executed by insurgent gunmen. The Taliban officer claimed that the group’s English-language media department continues to actively examine the WikiLeaks material and intends to draw up lists of collaborators in each province, to add to the hit lists of local insurgent commanders.

Newsweek.

where did you get this information from? please make clear what you quoted from somewhere else and what are your own words. and give a link to the source in case of a quote.

Who is "Zabiullah Mujahid"? A official taliban spokes person? Do you believe everything what he will tell you?

lol

Taliban Seeks Vengeance in Wake of WikiLeaks Leaked U.S. Intel documents listed the names and villages of Afghan collaborators—and the Taliban is starting to retaliate.

http://www.newsweek.com/

Zabiullah Mujahid has a wiki site.

What part of your story was taken from www.newsweek.com? if you unable to link to the article because you don't know how it works you could at least name the title of the article in question, the day of publishing and if possible the author. proper citation. Thank you.

the name "Zabiullah Mujahid" brings up no search results on the newsweek.com search option.

[mark45y]

A Taliban spokesman in Afghanistan using the pseudonym Zabiullah Mujahid said in a telephone interview that the Taliban had formed a nine-member "commission" after the Afghan documents were posted "to find about people who are spying." He said the Taliban had a "wanted" list of 1,800 Afghans and was comparing that with names WikiLeaks provided. "After the process is completed, our Taliban court will decide about such people," he said.

Tha Taliban will kill the people that have been identified by WikiLeaks. By promoting WikiLeaks you are participating in that effort. If he says 9 good things and 1 bad thing, he still says one bad thing. The 9 good things don't make up for the one bad thing especially if it is murder. The Taliban are those people who video beheadings in case you forgot. I could include a link if you like. They post the beheadings on the INTERNET you know. I realize you approach this whole issue with the light heartedness of a liberal college crusade but perhaps you should watch the Taliban teaching that 12 year old boy how to behead a guy.

Just four days after the documents were published, death threats began arriving at the homes of key tribal elders in southern Afghanistan. And over the weekend one tribal elder, Khalifa Abdullah, who the Taliban believed had been in close contact with the Americans, was taken from his home in Monar village, in Kandahar province’s embattled Arghandab district, and executed by insurgent gunmen. The Taliban officer claimed that the group’s English-language media department continues to actively examine the WikiLeaks material and intends to draw up lists of collaborators in each province, to add to the hit lists of local insurgent commanders.

Newsweek.

where did you get this information from? please make clear what you quoted from somewhere else and what are your own words. and give a link to the source in case of a quote.

Who is "Zabiullah Mujahid"? A official taliban spokes person? Do you believe everything what he will tell you?

lol

Taliban Seeks Vengeance in Wake of WikiLeaks Leaked U.S. Intel documents listed the names and villages of Afghan collaborators—and the Taliban is starting to retaliate.

http://www.newsweek.com/

Zabiullah Mujahid has a wiki site.

What part of your story was taken from www.newsweek.com? if you unable to link to the article because you don't know how it works you could at least name the title of the article in question, the day of publishing and if possible the author. proper citation. Thank you.

the name "Zabiullah Mujahid" brings up no search results on the newsweek.com search option.

I did name the article. "Taliban Seeks Vengeance in Wake of WikiLeaks Leaked U.S. Intel documents listed the names and villages of Afghan collaborators—and the Taliban is starting to retaliate."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabiullah_Mujahid That is his website.

[A_Traveller]

But oddly you fail to note the comments by Geoff Morrell, chief Pentagon press secretary, and by the by, SecDef Gates himself, that no deaths have been attributed to the release of the Afghan documents.

Regards

[metisdead]

What part of your story was taken from www.newsweek.com? if you unable to link to the article because you don't know how it works you could at least name the title of the article in question, the day of publishing and if possible the author. proper citation. Thank you.

the name "Zabiullah Mujahid" brings up no search results on the newsweek.com search option.

Newsweek

[mark45y]

But oddly you fail to note the comments by Geoff Morrell, chief Pentagon press secretary, and by the by, SecDef Gates himself, that no deaths have been attributed to the release of the Afghan documents.

Regards

Not oddly. I think it is a bit too soon to tell. Wait a year and look up how many people were named by WikiLeaks and see how many are still alive. The Taliban has 1800 on a hit list even before Wiki so it will take a while to work through those before they can start on a fresh batch. They were trying to cross reference them so it may be quicker than a year but a year should give some decent evidence.

[mark45y]

What part of your story was taken from www.newsweek.com? if you unable to link to the article because you don't know how it works you could at least name the title of the article in question, the day of publishing and if possible the author. proper citation. Thank you.

the name "Zabiullah Mujahid" brings up no search results on the newsweek.com search option.

Newsweek

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/02/taliban-seeks-vengeance-in-wake-of-wikileaks.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabiullah_Mujahid

[SergeiY]

where did you get this information from? please make clear what you quoted from somewhere else and what are your own words. and give a link to the source in case of a quote.

Who is "Zabiullah Mujahid"? A official taliban spokes person? Do you believe everything what he will tell you?

lol

Taliban Seeks Vengeance in Wake of WikiLeaks Leaked U.S. Intel documents listed the names and villages of Afghan collaborators—and the Taliban is starting to retaliate.

http://www.newsweek.com/

Zabiullah Mujahid has a wiki site.

What part of your story was taken from www.newsweek.com? if you unable to link to the article because you don't know how it works you could at least name the title of the article in question, the day of publishing and if possible the author. proper citation. Thank you.

the name "Zabiullah Mujahid" brings up no search results on the newsweek.com search option.

I did name the article. "Taliban Seeks Vengeance in Wake of WikiLeaks Leaked U.S. Intel documents listed the names and villages of Afghan collaborators—and the Taliban is starting to retaliate."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabiullah_Mujahid That is his website.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/02/taliban-seeks-vengeance-in-wake-of-wikileaks.html

While it is unknown whether any of the men were indeed named in the WikiLeaks documents, it’s clear the Taliban believes they have been cooperating with Western forces and the Afghan government.

And that wikipedia pages isn't his website.

[SergeiY]

What part of your story was taken from www.newsweek.com? if you unable to link to the article because you don't know how it works you could at least name the title of the article in question, the day of publishing and if possible the author. proper citation. Thank you.

the name "Zabiullah Mujahid" brings up no search results on the newsweek.com search option.

Newsweek

Yes, read the article, different from mark45y entry and no Zabiullah Mujahid is mentioned at all and not clear where he starts to quote and/or maybe add his own words or edited something out.

But as long its the Taliban who are accused of killing Afghan civilians its probably somehow on topic meanwhile very recent stories about someone else killing Afghan civilians and was sentenced by a court for it are off topic, right?

[metisdead]

What part of your story was taken from www.newsweek.com? if you unable to link to the article because you don't know how it works you could at least name the title of the article in question, the day of publishing and if possible the author. proper citation. Thank you.

the name "Zabiullah Mujahid" brings up no search results on the newsweek.com search option.

Newsweek

Yes, read the article, different from mark45y entry and no Zabiullah Mujahid is mentioned at all and not clear where he starts to quote and/or maybe add his own words or edited something out.

But as long its the Taliban who are accused of killing Afghan civilians its probably somehow on topic meanwhile very recent stories about someone else killing Afghan civilians and was sentenced by a court for it are off topic, right?

Those stories in question, they were not linked to Wikileaks.

I suggest you drop it.

[SergeiY]

But oddly you fail to note the comments by Geoff Morrell, chief Pentagon press secretary, and by the by, SecDef Gates himself, that no deaths have been attributed to the release of the Afghan documents.

Regards

Not oddly. I think it is a bit too soon to tell. Wait a year and look up how many people were named by WikiLeaks and see how many are still alive. The Taliban has 1800 on a hit list even before Wiki so it will take a while to work through those before they can start on a fresh batch. They were trying to cross reference them so it may be quicker than a year but a year should give some decent evidence.

they are referred as XXXXXX and XXXXXX and XXXXXX and XXXXXXX and XXXXXX and XXXXX and so on. Many XXXXXX and thats all.

You are telling old already busted propaganda lies.

[mark45y]

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/02/taliban-seeks-vengeance-in-wake-of-wikileaks.html

After WikiLeaks published a trove of U.S. intelligence documents—some of which listed the names and villages of Afghans who had been secretly cooperating with the American military—it didn’t take long for the Taliban to react. A spokesman for the group quickly threatened to “punish” any Afghan listed as having “collaborated” with the U.S. and the Kabul authorities against the growing Taliban insurgency. In recent days, the Taliban has demonstrated how seriously those threats should be considered.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/world/24assange.html

Several WikiLeaks colleagues say he alone decided to release the Afghan documents without removing the names of Afghan intelligence sources for NATO troops. “We were very, very upset with that, and with the way he spoke about it afterwards,” said Birgitta Jonsdottir, a core WikiLeaks volunteer and a member of Iceland’s Parliament. “If he could just focus on the important things he does, it would be better.”

A Taliban spokesman in Afghanistan using the pseudonym Zabiullah Mujahid said in a telephone interview that the Taliban had formed a nine-member “commission” after the Afghan documents were posted “to find about people who are spying.” He said the Taliban had a “wanted” list of 1,800 Afghans and was comparing that with names WikiLeaks provided.

“After the process is completed, our Taliban court will decide about such people,” he said.

Sorry, hope these links work better.

[SergeiY]

What part of your story was taken from www.newsweek.com? if you unable to link to the article because you don't know how it works you could at least name the title of the article in question, the day of publishing and if possible the author. proper citation. Thank you.

the name "Zabiullah Mujahid" brings up no search results on the newsweek.com search option.

Newsweek

Yes, read the article, different from mark45y entry and no Zabiullah Mujahid is mentioned at all and not clear where he starts to quote and/or maybe add his own words or edited something out.

But as long its the Taliban who are accused of killing Afghan civilians its probably somehow on topic meanwhile very recent stories about someone else killing Afghan civilians and was sentenced by a court for it are off topic, right?

Those stories in question, they were not linked to Wikileaks.

I suggest you drop it.

The connection to wikileaks and that Taliban story is only fictional and actually a totally unrelated event. That is just used for cheap anti wikileaks propaganda.

There is no evidence that any Taliban ever got a name from wikileaks for his kills list.

and the article in newsweek is still very different from the lines that appear in the entry of marky45.

[bonobo]

Yes, read the article, different from mark45y entry and no Zabiullah Mujahid is mentioned at all and not clear where he starts to quote and/or maybe add his own words or edited something out.

But as long its the Taliban who are accused of killing Afghan civilians its probably somehow on topic meanwhile very recent stories about someone else killing Afghan civilians and was sentenced by a court for it are off topic, right?

Actually, yes it is off-topic. Taliban killing others because of WikiLeaks is on-topic to this thread, while US soldiers getting tried for targeting Afghan civilians has nothing to do with WikiLeaks but is another topic altogether.

[SergeiY]

Yes, read the article,  different from mark45y entry and no Zabiullah Mujahid is mentioned at all and not clear where he starts to quote  and/or maybe add his own words or edited something out.

But as long its the Taliban who are accused of killing Afghan civilians its probably somehow on topic meanwhile very recent stories about someone else killing Afghan civilians and was sentenced by a court for it are off topic, right?

Actually, yes it is off-topic.  Taliban killing others because of WikiLeaks is on-topic to this thread, while US soldiers getting tried for targeting Afghan civilians has nothing to do with WikiLeaks but is another topic altogether. 

There is no evidence for it. That are just some propaganda lies to discredit wikileaks.

The other news are the realities of the war in Afghanistan, but okay not related to wikileaks about the war in Afghanistan. You a right about that. keep up the good work.

[LaoPo]

Guess what?

The 2010 TIME 100 Poll

The day Julian Assange turned himself in in London, his name disappeared from the TIME list where he was # 3, just 2 days ago*.

It's not explained by TIME why Mr. Assange disappeared from the list.

They've now on #1 Iranian Opposition leader Mr. Mir-Hossein Mosavi.

http://www.time.com/...1976159,00.html

It looks like the influence and paranoid behavior of the American Authorities has no boundaries.

Time now belongs to the growing list of companies like Amazon, Ebay/PayPal, Credit Card companies, Twitter, Facebook and the like, all bowing to the Powerplay and Pressure of the American Authorities.

Poor "First Amendment"...Poor Freedom of Speech.....Poor America

* Cast your votes for the leaders, artists, innovators and icons who you think are the most influential people in the world.

LaoPo

[mark45y]

^^^^

"Most striking is the unstated but pervasive belief that the United States is wiser, more skillful and dedicated than anybody else. Therefore, it is natural that America rules the roost. Our serial failures of judgment and action, at home as well as abroad, have left not a trace of modesty on our conduct."

By: Michael Brenner is a professor of International Affairs at the University of Pittsburgh.

From:

http://asiasentinel....2859&Itemid=367

LaoPo

I think the real topic of this thread is a conflict between European and American thought and ideals. WikiLeaks is only a vehicle for that conflict to play out at least on Thai Visa. Brenner (the author LaoPo is quoting above) wrote a paper titled, “THE EUROPEAN UNION, THE UNITED STATES

& ‘LIBERAL IMPERIALISM” that I think defines the nature of the conflict here on Thai Visa. So I will quote some snips from it. All of his papers area available at http://www.pitt.edu/~mbren/Papers.htm

Europeans, collectively and individually, do spend a significantly smaller fraction of GDP on defense; their defense expenditures are inefficiently invested and yield less bang for the Euro than they could, due in large part to the redundancy entailed in maintaining nationally organized military establishment.

Americans tend to view coercive force as a normal instrument of policy. Post-modern European opinion rejects that idea. For them, it is to be avoided if at all possible, to be employed in a discriminating manner and only as a last resort in extraordinary circumstances.

Quite different historical experiences of war have helped shape these attitudes.

The simple, oft noted truth that the United States has never suffered defeat (Vietnam being the exception – perhaps) or occupation stands in sharp contrast.

Hence, the current American motto: better wrong than unsafe, does not resonate with Europeans. For them, safety is too readily jeopardized by wars that have a way of going wrong.

In the aftermath of 9/11, an impassioned America became American drive to judge, to pronounce and to chastise is unsettling to most Europeans on two counts. First, it implicitly devalues the moral convictions of other nations while routinely implying that they have baser motives. Second, it is seen as simplistic in its facile assessments of right and wrong, the good and the bad.

Presidents as varied in their religious and intellectual persona as Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush have proclaimed as given truth the nation’s mission to ‘improve’ the world. This theme of America as the ‘chosen nation’ resonates from Abraham Lincoln’s declaring America to be “the last, best hope on earth” to Woodrow Wilson’s presenting American leadership for “the redemption of the world” to John F. Kennedy’s conjuring of “a rendezvous with destiny.”

The European sense of political morality as it applies to international relations is more restrained – if not humble.

The inability to meet these challenges will give credence to much publicized fears of the two sides of the Atlantic drifting apart. That would occur not because of disagreements over what is rightful, much less disparities in military means, but rather because their calculus of risk and their sense of moral imperative is different. Ultimately, there lies the fault line in Euro-American relations.

The disagreements I have had with LaoPo I think mirror the above arguments. LaoPo is saying WikiLeaks is a force for good in controlling what he sees as American bullying (or any of the fancy words used above). I look at is from a slightly more American pragmatic point of view and would like WikiLeaks to leave out the military references which could get Americans in combat killed.

The diplomatic faux paus are a more clouded issue. Not really military but filled with spy stuff. As we debate this issue are there low level clerks all over the world downloading official secrets? I don't know. It would be interesting to read.

As a civil libertarian issue should all privileged communication be made a matter of public record? That is rather Utopian concept that I think the test of time has proven unworkable.

Edited December 8, 2010 by mark45y

[hammered]

Good comment in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/dec/06/western-democracies-must-live-with-leaks