A Thai Skipping The 2 Year Army Conscription

[haveaniceday]

Out of curiosity more than anything, I meet a young chap of about 20yo last week, yep, came across as a total idiot on all counts, covered in bling, but one thing stood out. He was saying how he was conscripted into the Thai Army for 2 years of National Service and by memory after about 1 year he didn't go back. That was just before the shinanagans in Bangkok Burning some 6 months ago. He was saying how the Army has been looking for the soldiers who fleed and some of his buddies have now been imprisoned for 10 years.

The story sounds a bit rich to me, but, in Thailand expect the unexpected, and I know how serous the Army is and they are Very highly ranked in the countries social order.

He was saying how the Army prisons are the hardest in the country, I have no idea, I felt this kid was also telling a few porkies about some other stuff. So come to think of it, he is on the run I guess if he is telling the truth, and would be red flagged next time he gets a new ID card etc.. Anyone know if 10 years prison for not reporting to his National Service sounds about right? I mean, murders don't seem to get 10 years here often.

Edited December 6, 2010 by haveaniceday

[harrry]

The penalty for desertion used to be death in England and many other countries.

Edited December 6, 2010 by harrry

[LanxangBillybob]

I think the sentence wouldn't be more than 5 years, but the case would expire after 10. Until then, he might not be able to renew his ID card.

[thaimite]

I personally know of 2 men who did not attend during the majority of their 2 year conscription. From what I understand it is not unusual. I gather that the commander (or other high ranking person) collects the pay packet each month of those people who do not attend and at the end of the 2 years they have to return to sign off and no more is said.

Edited December 6, 2010 by thaimite

[Nawtier]

Lol...collection of pay packets is a clever little earn.

My BIL ran off awol after about 8 months...nothing happened to him...nobody chasing him.

But he was in the navy and they dont have so many boats I believe...so maybe they dont care so much.

[haveaniceday]

Well the collection of his pay-packet is what I expected, I know one guy who did that and he worked the family biz, it cost him more than his army pay-packet apparently, but not much more with lots of whisky, that was 2 years ago now, wow, time flies...

This little punk was boasting that he was still getting paid. I am guessing it depends on the actual person in charge of him.

Thanks for the info. I think it's only a matter before he is digging out of the hole he makes though !!!

[Kwasaki]

I personally know of 2 men who did not attend during the majority of their 2 year conscription. From what I understand it is not unusual. I gather that the commander (or other high ranking person) collects the pay packet each month of those people who do not attend and at the end of the 2 years they have to return to sign off and no more is said.

I could easily believe this is the case, good here ain't it, my step son stayed out when his number came up by doing the monk thingy and getting into uni.

[kunash]

I would like to ask please, a Thai / farang child, once they reach the age of conscription - would they have to sign up if they are in Thailand? ( i guess so, but dont know for sure ) Or If they are living in the west, would they be sent call up papers? Or if they returned to Thailand at the age of 24/25 would they be expected to join. Is there an age when they no longer have to sign up. thanks

[Nawtier]

Are there any thai/farang kids in the armed forces ? any Generals ?

Doubt they would want us in there ranks spiking the IQ average in such rapid surges.

[afarang]

I would like to ask please, a Thai / farang child, once they reach the age of conscription - would they have to sign up if they are in Thailand? ( i guess so, but dont know for sure ) Or If they are living in the west, would they be sent call up papers? Or if they returned to Thailand at the age of 24/25 would they be expected to join. Is there an age when they no longer have to sign up. thanks

If they hold a Thai I.D. card or a Thai passport, yes ,they are eligible.I don't know at what age, they are no longer required to "apply"Anyone else can answer that question?

[barrybankruad]

I personally know of 2 men who did not attend during the majority of their 2 year conscription. From what I understand it is not unusual. I gather that the commander (or other high ranking person) collects the pay packet each month of those people who do not attend and at the end of the 2 years they have to return to sign off and no more is said.

I could easily believe this is the case, good here ain't it, my step son stayed out when his number came up by doing the monk thingy and getting into uni.

Where I live conscription into the forces (almost invariably the army) is done a lottery basis. All eligible young men are gathered at one place and given a number. These numbers written onto balls are placed in a barrel and a certain number of balls picked out. If your number is one one of the balls, you're in, if not your out. Those 'outs' usually give a party to celebrate.

A couple of years ago I met the army officer who was running this. I asked him whether it was possible for him to ensure that my nephew was conscripted. At the time my nephew was getting into all sorts of trouble. The officer said it was certainly possible. He also stated that for a consideration those who did not want to be conscripted would not be. My nephew did his two years.

[Soutpeel]

I would like to ask please, a Thai / farang child, once they reach the age of conscription - would they have to sign up if they are in Thailand? ( i guess so, but dont know for sure ) Or If they are living in the west, would they be sent call up papers? Or if they returned to Thailand at the age of 24/25 would they be expected to join. Is there an age when they no longer have to sign up. thanks

If they hold a Thai I.D. card or a Thai passport, yes ,they are eligible.I don't know at what age, they are no longer required to "apply"Anyone else can answer that question?

Believe after age 30, they dont bother you anymore

[lomatopo]

He also stated that for a consideration those who did not want to be conscripted would not be. My nephew did his two years.

This is accurate. If the payment is made before the drawing it is a fraction of the payment due after the drawing. (I used to know these numbers for one region but have forgotten them. Not everyone can afford to pay their way out, or else the Army would have only officers. Some people also re-establish their domicile in a region which has already met their quota knowing that they will not be drafted.

[floridaguy]

I would like to ask please, a Thai / farang child, once they reach the age of conscription - would they have to sign up if they are in Thailand? ( i guess so, but dont know for sure ) Or If they are living in the west, would they be sent call up papers? Or if they returned to Thailand at the age of 24/25 would they be expected to join. Is there an age when they no longer have to sign up. thanks

I have these exact questions about my son. I am considering the implications of getting him his Thai ID card, he is 12 years old. I would rather he not serve in the Thai army.

Maybe I should post this question in the general topics forum, as I have not seen any good posts addressing this situation.

[Soutpeel]

I would like to ask please, a Thai / farang child, once they reach the age of conscription - would they have to sign up if they are in Thailand? ( i guess so, but dont know for sure ) Or If they are living in the west, would they be sent call up papers? Or if they returned to Thailand at the age of 24/25 would they be expected to join. Is there an age when they no longer have to sign up. thanks

I have these exact questions about my son. I am considering the implications of getting him his Thai ID card, he is 12 years old. I would rather he not serve in the Thai army.

Why not ? he is Thai is he not ?.....maybe you should leave that decision for him once the time comes....

[afarang]

Why not ? Conscripts in the Thai army, do not find it a pleasant experience. I believe it is getting worse for Isarn conscripts.

[Soutpeel]

Why not ? Conscripts in the Thai army, do not find it a pleasant experience. I believe it is getting worse for Isarn conscripts.

Conscripts in any army generally do not have a pleasant experience in most cases.....

[richard_smith237]

Somewhat related...

A friend who's mother is Brazilian but who has lived in the UK all his live decided to visit Brazil. It turned out that obtaining dual citizenship based on his mothers nationality was a simpler than applying for visa (or at least that was the advice the Brazilian Consulate in the UK gave him).

My friend entered Brazil on his Brazilian passport he spent a year traveling around Brazil. When he came to leave big problems arose as he had not carried out his National Service. He was told that when in Brazil he is Brazilian, his British Passport means nothing.

After a period of intense stress (which involved being locked up at times) and with the assistance of his girlfriends father (whom I'm told is a Senior Police official) he left Brazil in somewhat of a covert manner by not passing immigration and being escorted straight onto a plane.....

With a Thai and a British Passport in Thailand a young man is considered Thai only. I'm sure that taking part in the 'National Service lottery' is law. I am also sure there are methods of avoiding the draft.

[floridaguy]

I would like to ask please, a Thai / farang child, once they reach the age of conscription - would they have to sign up if they are in Thailand? ( i guess so, but dont know for sure ) Or If they are living in the west, would they be sent call up papers? Or if they returned to Thailand at the age of 24/25 would they be expected to join. Is there an age when they no longer have to sign up. thanks

I have these exact questions about my son. I am considering the implications of getting him his Thai ID card, he is 12 years old. I would rather he not serve in the Thai army.

Why not ? he is Thai is he not ?.....maybe you should leave that decision for him once the time comes....

He doesn't want to serve here either. He would rather join the US army. I tend to agree, at least on that point, but not on the whole military thing in general. If all goes as planned, he will be in the US at a university anyway. I don't know if he would get an "out" if he were to get a letter of summons from the Thai army to my house while he is out of the country getting an education.

And BTW, I have not established his Thai citizenship yet. I was born here, but he was not, so he only has a US passport. I haven't even added him to my tabien baan yet, mainly for this question of military service.

[bannork]

One of my brothers-in-law deserted during his 2 years of conscription because his wife fled the scene, he was okay until he applied for a passport, then he had to pay 20,000 baht to clear his case.

[Soutpeel]

Somewhat related...

A friend who's mother is Brazilian but who has lived in the UK all his live decided to visit Brazil. It turned out that obtaining dual citizenship based on his mothers nationality was a simpler than applying for visa (or at least that was the advice the Brazilian Consulate in the UK gave him).

My friend entered Brazil on his Brazilian passport he spent a year traveling around Brazil. When he came to leave big problems arose as he had not carried out his National Service. He was told that when in Brazil he is Brazilian, his British Passport means nothing.

After a period of intense stress (which involved being locked up at times) and with the assistance of his girlfriends father (whom I'm told is a Senior Police official) he left Brazil in somewhat of a covert manner by not passing immigration and being escorted straight onto a plane.....

With a Thai and a British Passport in Thailand a young man is considered Thai only. I'm sure that taking part in the 'National Service lottery' is law. I am also sure there are methods of avoiding the draft.

This is all correct and your British passport tells you exactly this on pg 3 item 5, holding dual nationalites does not exclude you from military service in the "other" country"

[floridaguy]

There is also a section in the US policy that deals directly with American citizens serving in a foreign military. It used to be an offence that was punishable by revocation of your US citizenship, which is my main concern for my son, but this is no longer the case. It is fine as long as the foreign military you are serving in is in no direct conflict with the US military. I don't think Thailand will be opposing the US military in the near future, so no worries there.

[Soutpeel]

He doesn't want to serve here either. He would rather join the US army. I tend to agree, at least on that point, but not on the whole military thing in general. If all goes as planned, he will be in the US at a university anyway. I don't know if he would get an "out" if he were to get a letter of summons from the Thai army to my house while he is out of the country getting an education.

And BTW, I have not established his Thai citizenship yet. I was born here, but he was not, so he only has a US passport. I haven't even added him to my tabien baan yet, mainly for this question of military service.

Playing the devils advocate here, but what would happen if the tables were turned and it was conscription in the US and not in Thailand, and imagine comments US citizens on TV would be making if you were discussing trying to dodge the US draft....

Pretty sure you would be hearing..."revoke his citizenship"...."coward"....."disloyal to the US" as some of the more polite comments.

[floridaguy]

He doesn't want to serve here either. He would rather join the US army. I tend to agree, at least on that point, but not on the whole military thing in general. If all goes as planned, he will be in the US at a university anyway. I don't know if he would get an "out" if he were to get a letter of summons from the Thai army to my house while he is out of the country getting an education.

And BTW, I have not established his Thai citizenship yet. I was born here, but he was not, so he only has a US passport. I haven't even added him to my tabien baan yet, mainly for this question of military service.

Playing the devils advocate here, but what would happen if the tables were turned and it was conscription in the US and not in Thailand, and imagine comments US citizens on TV would be making if you were discussing trying to dodge the US draft....

Pretty sure you would be hearing..."revoke his citizenship"...."coward"....."disloyal to the US" as some of the more polite comments.

Not trying to dodge. Read, he isn't a Thai citizen yet, so therefore can't dodge. And so you have never tried to "dodge" paying alot of taxes, or a traffic ticket? This isn't about not being patriotic, it is about choosing my son's future, when and if I can. And since he has only been in Thailand 2 months, and has never been here before, and is not a Thai citizen, I wouldn't consider him as being a coward, disloyal, or deserving of a revocation of a citizenship he hasn't attained yet. Also, this isn't a "draft", it is compulsory military service, of a sorts. Also notice, I never said that he WOULDN'T serve if called up, I only would like to avoid it. I never asked how to pay someone off to avoid it, or do anything illegal, as many Thais do for their children. Being one of the few Thai citizens on here, and I am assuming your aren't, I would welcome any Thai person's comment on the subject of patriotism, but your comments are not relevant to the question posed. And being a US citizen as well, I wouldn't consider someone un-patriotic if they were avoiding, but not disregarding, a call to duty.

Edited December 7, 2010 by floridaguy

[CanInBKK]

To answer your question floridaguy, he is certainly free to go to uni in the US; however, he has 2 choices after that in terms of working in Thailand.

1. Return to Thailand after uni, do his 2 years and then apply for a job in Thailand.

2. Work in the US after uni until the age of 30, return to Thailand and get his สด9 (miliatary exemption form) from the amphur where his tabien baan is. And then apply for a job in Thailand.

This is all assuming he wants to work here and doesn't want to work on a work permit with his US passport.

(He can in fact apply for an ID card from the embassy in the US; however, no employer will hire him without passing miliatary service or otherwise exempted)

[floridaguy]

To answer your question floridaguy, he is certainly free to go to uni in the US; however, he has 2 choices after that in terms of working in Thailand.

1. Return to Thailand after uni, do his 2 years and then apply for a job in Thailand.

2. Work in the US after uni until the age of 30, return to Thailand and get his สด9 (miliatary exemption form) from the amphur where his tabien baan is. And then apply for a job in Thailand.

This is all assuming he wants to work here and doesn't want to work on a work permit with his US passport.

(He can in fact apply for an ID card from the embassy in the US; however, no employer will hire him without passing miliatary service or otherwise exempted)

Thank you for the information. Much appreciated.

[thaimite]

I wonder how long a Thai - Farang boy would last in front of the draft board if he decided he did not understand Thai?

[Xircal]

A male becomes eligible for conscription at 21 years of age and the period to be served is two years. However, an individual can volunteer from the age of 18 years and will then only have to serve one year.

[TerryLH]

“And BTW, I have not established his Thai citizenship yet. I was born here, but he was not, so he only has a US passport.”

If one or both of his parents are Thai, he’s Thai. He is a Thai without a Thai passport, ID card or his name in a house registration.

He can get a Thai passport in the US without fear of being conscripted.

“I haven't even added him to my tabien baan yet, mainly for this question of military service.”

This is what they use to get lists for the conscription lottery. He can have a Thai passport, but as long as he’s not on a house registration, he won’t be notified to attend the lottery.

“Read, he isn't a Thai citizen yet, so therefore can't dodge.”

Actually, he is.

There are ways to legally get out of the conscription lottery. Probably the most used is by the boy taking ‘army’ classes in high school.

Thaimite and Xircal gave a couple of other ways.

“Also, this isn't a "draft", it is compulsory military service, of a sorts.”

I don’t know what you think you mean, but it is not ‘compulsory military service’ by any stretch of the imagination.

The only thing compulsory is the attendance at the lottery, where his chances of actually being selected to serve will vary by many factors, but have been low in recent times.

[samran]

To answer your question floridaguy, he is certainly free to go to uni in the US; however, he has 2 choices after that in terms of working in Thailand.

1. Return to Thailand after uni, do his 2 years and then apply for a job in Thailand.

2. Work in the US after uni until the age of 30, return to Thailand and get his สด9 (miliatary exemption form) from the amphur where his tabien baan is. And then apply for a job in Thailand.

This is all assuming he wants to work here and doesn't want to work on a work permit with his US passport.

(He can in fact apply for an ID card from the embassy in the US; however, no employer will hire him without passing miliatary service or otherwise exempted)

Thank you for the information. Much appreciated.

that is the way to go. I got the exemption form when I turned 30. I didn't register myself on the tabieen baan until 30.

Involves going to the sasadee, reporting yourself, paying a 100 to 400 baht fine to he police station for not reporting earlier (though you have a legitimate excuse), then getting the exemption certificate issued.

Unlike the brazillian story related earlier on, it is fine to get a Thai passport issued overseas (no need to be on the tabieen baan or have an ID card for a passport to be issued outside of thailand) and travel to Thailand freely before 30. Just make sure you don't lose that passport when in Thailand!!