Thousands Of Red Shirts Protest In Bangkok

[Siam Simon]

Just for those who haven't seen the photo's, here's the link again:

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/photos-from-may-19-an-update

Don't forget to read the conclusions:

Conclusions

The photographs show that were at least three groups of people inside CTW in the hours just before the fire: (1) small numbers of protesters, who may have been looting; (2) CTW security guards, who apparently fled the mall after being fired at; and (3) unseen gunmen. Whether there was more than one group of gunmen, and whether the same gunmen shot the security guards in Photos 15-28 and the protester with the slingshot in Photo 9 (if he was indeed shot), we simply do not know based on these photographs.

The photographs also show at least three different sources of apparent gunfire: (1) unseen shooter(s) inside CTW, who fired upon security guards and possibly fired at a protester; (2) unseen shooter(s) located near the northeast corner of Siam Paragon; and (3) unseen shooter(s) on the west side of Siam Paragon, possibly connected to the camouflaged man in the ski mask photographed on the Siam BTS platform.

As discussed above, the photographer was almost certainly a security guard for CTW. This raises an important question: Have the security guards from inside the mall been questioned as to what they saw at CTW before the fire? Many faces can be clearly seen. No doubt they saw more than was photographed here. Will any journalists step up and track down these witnesses?

Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd made a response to these photographs on behalf of CRES this past Tuesday, December 7th. (See the Matichon report.) He dismissed the photographs, saying they contain nothing new.

And while these photographs do not provide us with any ground shaking new conclusions about the CentralWorld fire, their release and the ongoing public response is striking, because it demonstrates how little information the public actually has about what happened. More than six months later we're still guessing, still bickering about who did what.

The government's dismissal of this new evidence out of hand, and their refusal to acknowledge and respond to a public clearly hungry for more information, simply demonstrates their ongoing dedication to a policy of strict opacity, and a lack of responsibility towards informing the public they are supposed to serve.

Thank you for that, rubl. Those familiar with Bangkok Pundit's writings will be aware that he is, for obvious reasons, very careful about openly stating his interpretations of the matters about which he writes. The strange series of events leading up to the arson at CTW, as presented in the above quoted article, do glare at the inquisitive mind somewhat .

Btw, is that the same Col Sansern who for months denied that the Army had any personnel on that part of the BTS line that overlooks Wat Pathumwanaram and CTW on May 19?

[Siam Simon]

In other words, no substantive proof whatsoever. What we do now have, though, is photographic evidence of some very strange goings-on in and around CTW in the hours leading up to the arson which have the Army's modus operandi stamped all over them

No, you don't. And you have already been given a walk-through of the pictures. But since it doesn't fit your agenda you have choosen to ignore it and keep posting the same distortions again and again.

I don't need to distort anything, the evidence is there in the photos.

Yes, it is, so why are you pulling out the wrong conclusions? Didn't you look at the pictures?

I'm not. I see photos of people hit by precise sniper shots to their calves (a trademark of elite Army snipers when not shooting to kill), and I see photos of crowds outside CTW coming under fire in an area in which the Army had secured the high ground (though they denied having secured that area of high ground for months afterward ).

[rubl]

Just for those who haven't seen the photo's, here's the link again:

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pundit-blog/photos-from-may-19-an-update

Don't forget to read the conclusions:

Conclusions

The photographs show that were at least three groups of people inside CTW in the hours just before the fire: (1) small numbers of protesters, who may have been looting; (2) CTW security guards, who apparently fled the mall after being fired at; and (3) unseen gunmen. Whether there was more than one group of gunmen, and whether the same gunmen shot the security guards in Photos 15-28 and the protester with the slingshot in Photo 9 (if he was indeed shot), we simply do not know based on these photographs.

The photographs also show at least three different sources of apparent gunfire: (1) unseen shooter(s) inside CTW, who fired upon security guards and possibly fired at a protester; (2) unseen shooter(s) located near the northeast corner of Siam Paragon; and (3) unseen shooter(s) on the west side of Siam Paragon, possibly connected to the camouflaged man in the ski mask photographed on the Siam BTS platform.

As discussed above, the photographer was almost certainly a security guard for CTW. This raises an important question: Have the security guards from inside the mall been questioned as to what they saw at CTW before the fire? Many faces can be clearly seen. No doubt they saw more than was photographed here. Will any journalists step up and track down these witnesses?

Col. Sansern Kaewkamnerd made a response to these photographs on behalf of CRES this past Tuesday, December 7th. (See the Matichon report.) He dismissed the photographs, saying they contain nothing new.

And while these photographs do not provide us with any ground shaking new conclusions about the CentralWorld fire, their release and the ongoing public response is striking, because it demonstrates how little information the public actually has about what happened. More than six months later we're still guessing, still bickering about who did what.

The government's dismissal of this new evidence out of hand, and their refusal to acknowledge and respond to a public clearly hungry for more information, simply demonstrates their ongoing dedication to a policy of strict opacity, and a lack of responsibility towards informing the public they are supposed to serve.

Thank you for that, rubl. Those familiar with Bangkok Pundit's writings will be aware that he is, for obvious reasons, very careful about openly stating his interpretations of the matters about which he writes. The strange series of events leading up to the arson at CTW, as presented in the above quoted article, do glare at the inquisitive mind somewhat .

Btw, is that the same Col Sansern who for months denied that the Army had any personnel on that part of the BTS line that overlooks Wat Pathumwanaram and CTW on May 19?

Anyone with a single braincell can see that whatever one presents you with, you will twist and turn till it fits your ideas. Just for once just say 'this is my opinion', that I could easily accept.

We have no names yet of those who put fire to CTW, but lots of circumstantial evidence. May I post a few links, not that it will change your ideas, but just to show others what I mean?

http://www.pongrat.com/blog/central-world-fire-photos-and-ctw-video-clip-bangkok/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10127048

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/thailand.protests/index.html?hpt=T1

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/world/asia/20thai.html?_r=1&hp

and of course lots of info posted before on this topic and between now and May 19th before. Remember the 'burn_it_my_way' clip with k. Arisman, or k. Nattawut saying 'I will take responsibility', k. Jatuporn 'I will fight till my last drop of blood'?

Your comments remind me of the saying 'a single fool can ask more than ten wise men can answer'. May be add a new saying 'the truth needs to be told at least once a week'

Yes, part of this is MY opinion, only parts. Lots can be found to be said or written by others.

PS your statement "Those familiar with Bangkok Pundit's writings will be aware that he is, for obvious reasons, very careful about openly stating his interpretations of the matters about which he writes." cannot be proven, so why should anyone 'be aware'? Very weak argument on a rather balanced article.

PPS stay cool, keep smiling and for once show indisputable proof rather than state

Edited December 12, 2010 by rubl

[Siam Simon]

Anyone with a single braincell can see that whatever one presents you with, you will twist and turn till it fits your ideas. Just for once just say 'this is my opinion', that I could easily accept.

We have no names yet of those who put fire to CTW, but lots of circumstantial evidence. May I post a few links, not that it will change your ideas, but just to show others what I mean?

http://www.pongrat.com/blog/central-world-fire-photos-and-ctw-video-clip-bangkok/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10127048

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/thailand.protests/index.html?hpt=T1

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/world/asia/20thai.html?_r=1&hp

and of course lots of info posted before on this topic and between now and May 19th before. Remember the 'burn_it_my_way' clip with k. Arisman, or k. Nattawut saying 'I will take responsibility', k. Jatuporn 'I will fight till my last drop of blood'?

Your comments remind me of the saying 'a single fool can ask more than ten wise men can answer'. May be add a new saying 'the truth needs to be told at least once a week'

That's right. No names, no witnesses, nothing. Not one piece of solid evidence of who actually set fire to CTW. Just bluster from Red Shirt Leaders and lots of shooting to get the CTW mall and it's immediate environs cleared of people. What a perfect scenario for the ultimate black op.

What a fool I was not to believe the government, Army and all those posters on TV who kept stating (often more than once a week) that it was the mysterious Black Shirts slaughtering their own, shooting into Wat Pathumwanaram on May 19. It couldn't possibly have been crack Army Snipers shooting at those people. What would be the point?

Yes, part of this is MY opinion, only parts. Lots can be found to be said or written by others.

No, it's ALL your opinion, as is most of the stuff written in these threads by all of us until we have any of it categorically proven to be right or wrong. Lots, eh? Well let's all jolly well go with the flow then.

PS your statement "Those familiar with Bangkok Pundit's writings will be aware that he is, for obvious reasons, very careful about openly stating his interpretations of the matters about which he writes." cannot be proven, so why should anyone 'be aware'? Very weak argument on a rather balanced article.

PPS stay cool, keep smiling and for once show indisputable proof rather than state

Try reading Bangkok Pundit regularly. You'll soon get the flavour .

And yeah, you too. Like I said: We're all mostly posting opinions and interpretations. There. Can you accept that?

[rubl]

Anyone with a single braincell can see that whatever one presents you with, you will twist and turn till it fits your ideas. Just for once just say 'this is my opinion', that I could easily accept.

We have no names yet of those who put fire to CTW, but lots of circumstantial evidence. May I post a few links, not that it will change your ideas, but just to show others what I mean?

http://www.pongrat.com/blog/central-world-fire-photos-and-ctw-video-clip-bangkok/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10127048

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/thailand.protests/index.html?hpt=T1

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/world/asia/20thai.html?_r=1&hp

and of course lots of info posted before on this topic and between now and May 19th before. Remember the 'burn_it_my_way' clip with k. Arisman, or k. Nattawut saying 'I will take responsibility', k. Jatuporn 'I will fight till my last drop of blood'?

Your comments remind me of the saying 'a single fool can ask more than ten wise men can answer'. May be add a new saying 'the truth needs to be told at least once a week'

That's right. No names, no witnesses, nothing. Not one piece of solid evidence of who actually set fire to CTW. Just bluster from Red Shirt Leaders and lots of shooting to get the CTW mall and it's immediate environs cleared of people. What a perfect scenario for the ultimate black op.

What a fool I was not to believe the government, Army and all those posters on TV who kept stating (often more than once a week) that it was the mysterious Black Shirts slaughtering their own, shooting into Wat Pathumwanaram on May 19. It couldn't possibly have been crack Army Snipers shooting at those people. What would be the point?

Yes, part of this is MY opinion, only parts. Lots can be found to be said or written by others.

No, it's ALL your opinion, as is most of the stuff written in these threads by all of us until we have any of it categorically proven to be right or wrong. Lots, eh? Well let's all jolly well go with the flow then.

PS your statement "Those familiar with Bangkok Pundit's writings will be aware that he is, for obvious reasons, very careful about openly stating his interpretations of the matters about which he writes." cannot be proven, so why should anyone 'be aware'? Very weak argument on a rather balanced article.

PPS stay cool, keep smiling and for once show indisputable proof rather than state

Try reading Bangkok Pundit regularly. You'll soon get the flavour .

And yeah, you too. Like I said: We're all mostly posting opinions and interpretations. There. Can you accept that?

Well, well, annoyed are we? From what you wrote the part I truly can accept is "What a fool I was", IMHO of course

Edited December 12, 2010 by rubl

[mkawish]

Perhaps the 3 and half years the Reds have been a violent organization taints people's impression of them and that 6 months or so is a little too soon to completely forget the 3 and a half years.

Their unprecedented burning of Bangkok is still fresh.

Got any unequivocal and certain evidence for your final sentence ???

I'm unaware of any previous burning of Bangkok that exceeded that which occurred in May 2010.

If you do, I'd be interested in reading about it.

Do please pay attention.

Have you any evidence of who set the fires ??

philw:

Did you have a chance to watch the last week news concerning building guards' eyewitness accounts as to why they all left their posts which they were trained for emergency events?

Perhaps, you could find your answers there.

Perhaps, you also are unaware as to who or which organization owned those buildings and businesses at the time?

You would find many answers there also.

It would appear everything then and every effort now are self-destructing for core-leaders.

[Siam Simon]

Well, well, annoyed are we? From what you wrote the part I truly can accept is "What a fool I was", IMHO of course

Anyway, congratulations are in order. That last post got you into 'Today's Top Posters' .

[whybother]

I'm not. I see photos of people hit by precise sniper shots to their calves (a trademark of elite Army snipers when not shooting to kill), and I see photos of crowds outside CTW coming under fire in an area in which the Army had secured the high ground (though they denied having secured that area of high ground for months afterward ).

The red shirts had their own army personnel. Could it have been them? Or maybe it was just a bad shot. There has been no evidence shown of army in CTW during the protests.

When did the army secure the high ground BEHIND Paragon?

[KunKoi]

So you mean only Thaksin pay his supporters to get support and other parties do not do it?

:jap:

Edited December 13, 2010 by KunKoi

[jdinasia]

Perhaps the 3 and half years the Reds have been a violent organization taints people's impression of them and that 6 months or so is a little too soon to completely forget the 3 and a half years.

Their unprecedented burning of Bangkok is still fresh.

Got any unequivocal and certain evidence for your final sentence ???

I'm unaware of any previous burning of Bangkok that exceeded that which occurred in May 2010.

If you do, I'd be interested in reading about it.

Do please pay attention.

Have you any evidence of who set the fires ??

philw:

Did you have a chance to watch the last week news concerning building guards' eyewitness accounts as to why they all left their posts which they were trained for emergency events?

Perhaps, you could find your answers there.

Perhaps, you also are unaware as to who or which organization owned those buildings and businesses at the time?

You would find many answers there also.

It would appear everything then and every effort now are self-destructing for core-leaders.

Then there was the foreigner who testified that he couldn't have set the fires at central world because he was busy with the red shirts at channel 3 when the redshirts were setting the fires there. But hey .... a conspiracy theory is certainly more interesting than Occam's razor.

[Ricardo]

And the AirportS closure too.

Wrong, I'm afraid, the airport-closure cases have reached the courts, unlike the Bangkok organised-arson attacks.

Of course, they're proceeding with all the speed, for which the Thai legal-system is famed.

[jdinasia]

I see philw is still struggling with managing quotes.

Anyway, if he wants me to "pay attention", it helps if he is able to "pay attention" by making his posts clear as to what exactly it is that he is asking. Of course, that may mean posting more than a few words in a throwaway one liner that can be interpreted in a dozen different ways.

As for the evidence that it was the Red shirts that set the fires, I'm basing that on a pallet load of news articles like this one, for example:

Red Shirts set Bangkok ablaze as troops storm barricades

http://www.thisislon...protest-camp.do

Have they been tried and convicted yet? No.

We're still waiting for them to stand in court to face charges for their July 2007 Riot that injured hundreds.

.

In other words, no substantive proof whatsoever.

Not at all, there is the the aforementioned pallet which you casually dismiss as "whatsoever."

You're saying they are ALL wrong.

Wonderful.

Ah, ok. So, no substantive proof then? (you do understand the meaning of 'substantive', yes?)

I understand the word substantive

Direct testimony from people that were at the razing of channel 3, direct video evidence of upcountry fires and fires in BKK etc.

Pretty damning stuff. Does that mean that the reds did 100% of everything? No more than it means that the Army did all the shooting (And do remember all the claims that there were factions inside the army working against the government -- which is also not substantive, but certainly kills any "it is substantive that the Army -- meaning those answering to the government and not Sae Daeng's ronin --- did it )

[Pi Sek]

Do please pay attention.

Have you any evidence of who set the fires ??

What about eyewitness accounts from Jeff Savage who was at Channel 3?

This is the second time I have ever heard the suggestion that the Red Shirts did not set fire to Bangkok.

The first time was Jatuporn. I believe he is the worst type of liar and a cancer of the bowels to the Thai people.

The second time is one of only two Thaivisa posters whose clearly ridiculous opinions - ridiculous either through stupidity or choice - have caused me to no longer hold them seriously and filter them out using the ignore feature on this site.

However, if you block a user, their posts still show when someone replies to them. Can Thaivisa fix this please, as I have wasted time with this reply; avoiding wasting time was the whole point of blocking the user in the first place. It's much less hassle to acknowledge, "ah, it's philw, this post can be pre-classified as a load of dung" than it is to challenge the post - with logic - and with evidence - that he's already been shown many times - again - just to see him make the same ridiculous claims on another thread in a few days' time.

I would hate to have anything uniquely - noone else, just me - in common with the worst type of liar and a cancer of the bowels to the Thai people.

[Brunel]

The military CRUSHED the rally? Just another example of foreign journalistic inflammatory narrative .........

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

The second time is one of only two Thaivisa posters whose clearly ridiculous opinions - ridiculous either through stupidity or choice - have caused me to no longer hold them seriously and filter them out using the ignore feature on this site.

I'm sure they are crying into their beer.

However, if you block a user, their posts still show when someone replies to them. Can Thaivisa fix this please,

Er, no.

as I have wasted time with this reply; avoiding wasting time was the whole point of blocking the user in the first place. It's much less hassle to acknowledge, "ah, it's philw, this post can be pre-classified as a load of dung" than it is to challenge the post - with logic - and with evidence - that he's already been shown many times - again - just to see him make the same ridiculous claims on another thread in a few days' time.

I would hate to have anything uniquely - noone else, just me - in common with the worst type of liar and a cancer of the bowels to the Thai people.

"liar and a cancer of the bowels to the Thai people." Which Thai people are you referring to here? You talk as if they are all of one mind. They aren't, although you and many other posters would like readers to believe it.

Please don't get so excited. It's only words on an Internet forum!

[sungod]

Hi fellas, I have heard the red shirts will rally twice a month now, I have heard that from a few places.

However I have heard it will be democracy Monument the 10th of every month (commemoration April 10th Phan Fa)and the 19th every month at Rajaprasong (commemoration 19th May)

Anybody else heard this? Thanks,

(Apologies for getting back on topic)

Edited December 13, 2010 by sungod

[rubl]

Hi fellas, I have heard the red shirts will rally twice a month now, I have heard that from a few places.

However I have heard it will be democracy Monument the 10th of every month (commemoration April 10th Phan Fa)and the 19th every month at Rajaprasong (commemoration 19th May)

Anybody else heard this? Thanks,

(Apologies for getting back on topic)

That would probably mean some extra, nice traffic jams every month. Maybe some independent group should do the same on the 22nd to commemorate the BTS Saladaeng attack.

I hope the police will try to be a bit more strict in keeping lanes open to allow traffic to flow.

Democracy in action, but probably boredom will set in, just like the elections yesterday.

[Pi Sek]

"liar and a cancer of the bowels to the Thai people." Which Thai people are you referring to here? You talk as if they are all of one mind. They aren't, although you and many other posters would like readers to believe it.

Please don't get so excited. It's only words on an Internet forum!

I was referring to the Thai people. They are not of one mind and I wasn't grouping them together. But I think that Jatuporn lies to the Thai people (no matter what their political persuasion) and I think his unbridled lies makes him cancerous to the Thai people and an obstacle to any form of progress - pretty easy to understand? This is one of the few things that Suthep and I have in common. Note that few put the likes of Veera and Sombat, who aren't running their mouth off trying to spread hatred, in the same bracket as Jatuporn - if we're all "anti-red obsessives", why is this the case?

As for "getting excited"... what do you expect? They are just words on an Internet forum, but they are public record nonetheless. I consider it my civic duty to chastise clearly ridiculous opinions trying to make out to the public that they're not ridiculous. I would say that a "devil's advocate" type of response to such a heated issue (yes, nearly a hundred people died, thousands injured and hundreds of thousands lost livelihood) must be expected to lead to being chastised. Unless the opinion has been put forward by a genuinely stupid person (which may or may not be the case), the post has been made by a troll or a paid propagandist and so deserves all the abuse it attracts. You probably feel the same given your "although you and many other posters would like readers to believe it" add-on.

So the only apology you'll get from me is a "sorry" if I have labelled a stupid person as a troll/propagandist.

[Pi Sek]

<snip>

The second time is one of only two Thaivisa posters whose clearly ridiculous opinions - ridiculous either through stupidity or choice - have caused me to no longer hold them seriously and filter them out using the ignore feature on this site.

I'm sure they are crying into their beer.

It wasn't for their benefit.

However, if you block a user, their posts still show when someone replies to them. Can Thaivisa fix this please,

Er, no.

Is that an admin reply? If so, why not? What's the point in having an Ignore feature if you can still see 'ignored' posts?

[rubl]

However, if you block a user, their posts still show when someone replies to them. Can Thaivisa fix this please,

Er, no.

Is that an admin reply? If so, why not? What's the point in having an Ignore feature if you can still see 'ignored' posts?

I think that when you quote a post both text (possibly modified, parts removed) AND a pointer to the 'quote identifier' are stored with that post. If this is correct that would mean removing the 'quote identifier' from view depending on your profile should be possible. Unfortunately that still leaves the quoted text.

(edit: major rewrite )

Edited December 13, 2010 by rubl

[Buchholz]

Seems there may be yet another Jatuporn-ism in the works.

The other paper is reporting that "reports" that Jatuporn supposedly leaked about the culpability of violence last April/May do not match DSI's own reports.

Jatuporn is claiming the DSI files he distributed were leaked by police who were Red Shirt supporters, but the DSI is saying the reports are not the same as what DSI has in its own files.

Hmmm.... Abhisit audio tapes... DSI reports... Jatuporn is on a roll with bogus information.

.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

And right on cue... the Red Shirts are rallying today in front of the Japanese Embassy, protesting over the deaths of the April/May violence including Japanese photographer Hiroyuki Muramoto.

His death, in particular, is one of the ones documented with Jatuporn's "leaked DSI reports" that the DSI is saying doesn't match what DSI has in its own reports.

The rally today is being led by the Red Publications editor Somyot.

No word on whether this rally is sanctioned by the so-called Red President Thida.

.

[Buchholz]

Jatuporn's been busy today... now he's filing a charge against the judge in his case. This makes his fourth lawsuit against judges::

Red-shirt MP Presses Charge against Court Judge

A red-shirt core leader files malfeasance charge against a court judge responsible for the libel suit against him.

He claims the judge refused to hear witnesses at his request.

Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Prompan, also a red-shirt core leader, has filed a malfeasance suit against Criminal Court judge Somsak Wongyuen, who is presiding over the libel trial filed by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva against him, following last year's address in which he alleged the premier of ordering a massacre on his group's protesters.

Jatuporn said Somsak treated him unfairly and barred him from an extensive legal fight as he approved the hearing into only one defendent witness despite the fact that he presented 100 witnesses for the trial.

The red-shirt MP said he earlier filed a same complaint twice against the Supreme Court president, who is also the head of the judicial branch, and once against the president of the Criminal Court, but there is still no progress on those cases so far.

He urged Somsak to be removed from the hearing into his case, given the latter's close relationship with Abhisit who is the plaintiff.

Jatuporn said he feels the court is bias against him since the beginning of the hearing.

The Criminal Court today asked both parties to verify the evidence and footage of Jatuporn addressing the red-shirt rally stage on January 29 and February 29 that Abhisit ordered the killing of the group's protesters and his military draft dodging.

-- Tan Network 2010-12-13

[Buchholz]

Seems there may be yet another Jatuporn-ism in the works.

The other paper is reporting that "reports" that Jatuporn supposedly leaked about the culpability of violence last April/May do not match DSI's own reports.

Jatuporn is claiming the DSI files he distributed were leaked by police who were Red Shirt supporters, but the DSI is saying the reports are not the same as what DSI has in its own files.

Hmmm.... Abhisit audio tapes... DSI reports... Jatuporn is on a roll with bogus information.

The above has now been picked up by other media and is the subject of a new thread:

Thailand's DSI Denies Leaked Investigative Report Of Japanese Cameraman's Death

.

[rubl]

From the OP:

Jatuporn said he feels the court is bias against him since the beginning of the hearing.

Will this be the new first line defence by any accused party ? 'Give me a new judge, I don't like this one' ? Progress in cases is already slow, as k. Jatuporn himself complained. With this new trend it's only getting worse.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Poor Jatuporn, it would be hard for him to find many people in Thailand who are not 'biased' against such a madman as he...

[rubl]

It seems k. Jatuporn may still have some time to prepare himself for one defamation trial (the one about allegedly PM saying kill them). On some other site at says "Jatuporn defamation trial in 2012".

Mind you, the same newsflash also mentions "In another defamation case filed by Mr Abhisit against Mr Jatuporn, the court set Dec 17 to deliver its verdict." That's the one on PM Abhisit acting improper in front of H.M. the King.

[mkawish]

"liar and a cancer of the bowels to the Thai people." Which Thai people are you referring to here? You talk as if they are all of one mind. They aren't, although you and many other posters would like readers to believe it.

Please don't get so excited. It's only words on an Internet forum!

I was referring to the Thai people. They are not of one mind and I wasn't grouping them together. But I think that Jatuporn lies to the Thai people (no matter what their political persuasion) and I think his unbridled lies makes him cancerous to the Thai people and an obstacle to any form of progress - pretty easy to understand? This is one of the few things that Suthep and I have in common. Note that few put the likes of Veera and Sombat, who aren't running their mouth off trying to spread hatred, in the same bracket as Jatuporn - if we're all "anti-red obsessives", why is this the case?

As for "getting excited"... what do you expect? They are just words on an Internet forum, but they are public record nonetheless. I consider it my civic duty to chastise clearly ridiculous opinions trying to make out to the public that they're not ridiculous. I would say that a "devil's advocate" type of response to such a heated issue (yes, nearly a hundred people died, thousands injured and hundreds of thousands lost livelihood) must be expected to lead to being chastised. Unless the opinion has been put forward by a genuinely stupid person (which may or may not be the case), the post has been made by a troll or a paid propagandist and so deserves all the abuse it attracts. You probably feel the same given your "although you and many other posters would like readers to believe it" add-on.

So the only apology you'll get from me is a "sorry" if I have labelled a stupid person as a troll/propagandist.

There is really no need to apologize to anyone. Jatuporn has an amazing bundle of antagonistic ingrains and behaviors culminating in challenging anything and everything that does not seem to conform to his over zealous political ambition--that is only one of his outstanding characteristics. The other is trying to intimidate everyone and everything that crosses his life style including going after some judges that do not succumb to his charms and accusative generalization and verbalization, always on the selfish and self-serving inclination.

Would be interesting to hear and see him testify in person defending his character assassination and defaming lawsuit in the upcoming court calendar.

Edited December 13, 2010 by mkawish

[SamritT]

The court is not bias. Never in Thai history. Get it.

Edited December 14, 2010 by SamritT

[Siam Simon]

I'm not. I see photos of people hit by precise sniper shots to their calves (a trademark of elite Army snipers when not shooting to kill), and I see photos of crowds outside CTW coming under fire in an area in which the Army had secured the high ground (though they denied having secured that area of high ground for months afterward ).

The red shirts had their own army personnel. Could it have been them? Or maybe it was just a bad shot. There has been no evidence shown of army in CTW during the protests.

When did the army secure the high ground BEHIND Paragon?

Bad or stray shots outside CTW happening in isolation wouldn't be a bad call. But shots outside, after the mall had been cleared by shots inside (several "bad" shots, all hitting different targets in the same part of the leg? ), does seem to indicate a carefully planned and well executed attack designed to clear CTW and it's grounds. Could Red Shirts/their sympathisers have been behind this meticulous attack? Possibly. But they were in total disarray at this point.

The shots outside appeared to be coming from Paragon car park, which is very adjacent to the BTS.