Thai Govt To Be Lenient On Red Shirts With Minor Charges

[webfact]

RED SHIRTS LEADERS

Govt to give lenient measures for red shirts with minor charges

By The Nation

The government will push for the temporary release of some 104 red shirts involved in minor violations related to the Bangkok unrest in April and May, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Tuesday.

After today's lifting of emergency rule, the public prosecutors, police and the Department of Special Investigation will not oppose bail applications for those reds facing misdemeanour charges, Abhisit said.

He noted that the judiciary will have the final say on whether to grant bail.

The temporary release is being processed as per the recommendation of the Kanit na Nakorn panel tasked to seek the truth and reconciliation related to the unrest, he said.

The Rights and Liberties Protection Department has been designated the primary agency in charge of assisting the detained red shirts to apply for bail, he said, adding the bail applications will be reviewed on a casebycase basis.

In regard to the bail applications involving protest leaders, the justice officials had paid a prison visit last Friday and were told that the leaders did not need the government assistance on bond arrangement, he said.

On cases involving the leaders, the prosecution would drop its opposition for their bail applications, he said.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thausuban said the prime minister was keen to secure the release for the detained reds and that his efforts just became news because of his last week's meeting with redshirt leader Thida Thawornseth.

Suthep said he expected those facing misdemeanour charges to be among the first batch to be set free.

The bail applications for protest leaders will hinge on charges and the degree of involvement in inciting the violence, he said.

-- The Nation 2010-12-21

[monkfish]

"Govt to give lenient measures for red shirts with minor charges"

mmmm would have thought its up to the courts now that SEO has ended? So may be the title should be changed??

Most of those who pleaded guilty have served their sentence and have already been released.

I assume those still in prison are pleading innocent and probably are.

Will be interesting to see how many of those "Black Shirts" the +30 000 armed forces were able to arrest.

[Pria]

Another PR spin story that the government told The Nation to publish.

"The government will push for the temporary release of some 104 red shirts"

"...the Department of Special Investigation will not oppose bail applications for those reds facing misdemeanour charges"

"... the judiciary will have the final say on whether to grant bail."

So the government is going to do what? Another PR puff piece that says nothing. The judiciary has always had the final say as to whether these people will be freed or not/ Oh but wait, does this mean that ridiculous bail levels might magically be dropped to more realistic levels?

That wouldn't mean there is interference from the executive branch of the government with the judicial branch would it? Wikileaks has already shown other interference so why should we be surprised at this.

All that this story says is that a lot of people facing minor charges have been detained in prison for more than six months with bail rates set at excessively high levels to prevent them from having the basic right of being presumed innocent until proven guilty. ABhi is going to ride along on his white charger and like the Lone Ranger pull it up on it's hind legs, throw a few platitudes in the air before galloping off again.

Meanwhile 767 days after hundreds of thousands of foreign tourists were left stranded and millions of baht in exports lost by the closure of five Thailand airports not a single PAD protester has been convicted or held in prison.

[whybother]

Another PR spin story that the government told The Nation to publish.

"The government will push for the temporary release of some 104 red shirts"

"...the Department of Special Investigation will not oppose bail applications for those reds facing misdemeanour charges"

"... the judiciary will have the final say on whether to grant bail."

So the government is going to do what? Another PR puff piece that says nothing. The judiciary has always had the final say as to whether these people will be freed or not/ Oh but wait, does this mean that ridiculous bail levels might magically be dropped to more realistic levels?

That wouldn't mean there is interference from the executive branch of the government with the judicial branch would it? Wikileaks has already shown other interference so why should we be surprised at this.

All that this story says is that a lot of people facing minor charges have been detained in prison for more than six months with bail rates set at excessively high levels to prevent them from having the basic right of being presumed innocent until proven guilty. ABhi is going to ride along on his white charger and like the Lone Ranger pull it up on it's hind legs, throw a few platitudes in the air before galloping off again.

Meanwhile 767 days after hundreds of thousands of foreign tourists were left stranded and millions of baht in exports lost by the closure of five Thailand airports not a single PAD protester has been convicted or held in prison.

What ridiculous bail levels? You should keep up with the news.

These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts.

The government have organised for the poorer red shirts to get legal representation paid for by the tax payer, so that they can apply for bail.

[Siam Simon]

What ridiculous bail levels? You should keep up with the news.

These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts.

This contradicts your propaganda that the Red Shirts have a hotline to Thaksin's billions.

The government have organised for the poorer red shirts to get legal representation paid for by the tax payer, so that they can apply for bail.

Correct.

[Siripon]

What ridiculous bail levels? You should keep up with the news.

These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts.

This contradicts your propaganda that the Red Shirts have a hotline to Thaksin's billions.

The government have organised for the poorer red shirts to get legal representation paid for by the tax payer, so that they can apply for bail.

Correct.

Thaksin could easily put up the bail money for the poorer reds but he needs some reds to suffer to be his 'martyrs'.

What would the reds do if there hadn't been deaths in April and May?

[webfact]

Related Topic - Dec 22

Thai Govt paves way for release of red shirts

Follow this link:

[whybother]

What ridiculous bail levels? You should keep up with the news.

These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts.

This contradicts your propaganda that the Red Shirts have a hotline to Thaksin's billions.

The government have organised for the poorer red shirts to get legal representation paid for by the tax payer, so that they can apply for bail.

Correct.

Incorrect.

It highlights that the red shirt leaders have PLENTY of money to spend on their applications for bail, but that they don't want to spend small amounts on the poorer red shirts that are stuck in jail with no legal representation.

[jayjay0]

What ridiculous bail levels? You should keep up with the news.

These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts.

This contradicts your propaganda that the Red Shirts have a hotline to Thaksin's billions.

The government have organised for the poorer red shirts to get legal representation paid for by the tax payer, so that they can apply for bail.

Correct.

Incorrect.

It highlights that the red shirt leaders have PLENTY of money to spend on their applications for bail, but that they don't want to spend small amounts on the poorer red shirts that are stuck in jail with no legal representation.

It has been six months sense the Terrorists were stopped. There is very few people left who do not know what happened. Most of those still defending the red shirt actions have learned to do so in a way that doe's not actually say the red shirts were rite the Government was wrong. They manage to avoided claiming there actions were rite with the use of innuendo's and insinuations along with misleading statements.

To try to reason with these people is like trying to change the mind of a bucket full of hammers.

[Siam Simon]

What ridiculous bail levels? You should keep up with the news.

These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts.

This contradicts your propaganda that the Red Shirts have a hotline to Thaksin's billions.

The government have organised for the poorer red shirts to get legal representation paid for by the tax payer, so that they can apply for bail.

Correct.

Incorrect.

It highlights that the red shirt leaders have PLENTY of money to spend on their applications for bail, but that they don't want to spend small amounts on the poorer red shirts that are stuck in jail with no legal representation.

"These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts."

Would you like to contradict yourself any more?

[Siam Simon]

It has been six months sense the Terrorists were stopped. There is very few people left who do not know what happened. Most of those still defending the red shirt actions have learned to do so in a way that doe's not actually say the red shirts were rite the Government was wrong. They manage to avoided claiming there actions were rite with the use of innuendo's and insinuations along with misleading statements.

To try to reason with these people is like trying to change the mind of a bucket full of hammers.

And trying to have an intelligent, non-partisan debate on TV is often like trying to have a debate with a bucket full of hammers.

[whybother]

"These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts."

Would you like to contradict yourself any more?

They have plenty of money. They just choose to spend it on the leaders and not on the poorer red shirts.

No contradiction there. Just a contradiction in what the red shirts say they stand for.

[Siam Simon]

"These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts."

Would you like to contradict yourself any more?

They have plenty of money. They just choose to spend it on the leaders and not on the poorer red shirts.

No contradiction there. Just a contradiction in what the red shirts say they stand for.

So, when you stated that that "they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts" you didn't really mean that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts, you were actually saying that They have plenty of money, but they just choose to spend it on the leaders and not the poorer red shirts? That's a ThaiVisa 'Plus'ism for you, folks.

[Emptyset]

"These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts."

Would you like to contradict yourself any more?

They have plenty of money. They just choose to spend it on the leaders and not on the poorer red shirts.

No contradiction there. Just a contradiction in what the red shirts say they stand for.

How do you know they have plenty of money? Why have 20 or so red shirt leaders asked for state funds to help with the bail then? In reality I don't think they've got much money at all. Even PT were down to the bare minimum at the recent by-election, a Matichon article a short while ago claimed they were almost bankrupt. Not sure what Thaksin is doing with his money, but apparently not much going in the direction of Thailand. Actually, red shirt lawyers have tried to get bail for some of them, but it's been denied or set very high, for instance: http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/2179 - but even so, PT/red shirts haven't done anywhere near enough imo. PT have put up bail for some of them, but most not. They claim they don't have enough money and like I say maybe they don't... but what is Thaksin doing?

Thida did say she wanted all the red shirt prisoners released btw, not just the leaders.

I don't know why Abhisit had to wait to meet Thida to do all this though, surely he could have done it anyway, just as a matter of good faith. I mean it's his government that's kept people in jail for six months, some without charge and some, according to the NHRC, have been tortured and forced to confess. Some of them have been given twenty year jail sentences without access to a proper defense. So whilst it might be a gift to help the red shirt leaders out, it's perhaps his (or the government's) duty to help some of the others.

[Siam Simon]

"These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts."

Would you like to contradict yourself any more?

They have plenty of money. They just choose to spend it on the leaders and not on the poorer red shirts.

No contradiction there. Just a contradiction in what the red shirts say they stand for.

How do you know they have plenty of money? Why have 20 or so red shirt leaders asked for state funds to help with the bail then? In reality I don't think they've got much money at all. Even PT were down to the bare minimum at the recent by-election, a Matichon article a short while ago claimed they were almost bankrupt. Not sure what Thaksin is doing with his money, but apparently not much going in the direction of Thailand. Actually, red shirt lawyers have tried to get bail for some of them, but it's been denied or set very high, for instance: http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/2179 - but even so, PT/red shirts haven't done anywhere near enough imo. PT have put up bail for some of them, but most not. They claim they don't have enough money and like I say maybe they don't... but what is Thaksin doing?

Thida did say she wanted all the red shirt prisoners released btw, not just the leaders.

I don't know why Abhisit had to wait to meet Thida to do all this though, surely he could have done it anyway, just as a matter of good faith. I mean it's his government that's kept people in jail for six months, some without charge and some, according to the NHRC, have been tortured and forced to confess. Some of them have been given twenty year jail sentences without access to a proper defense. So whilst it might be a gift to help the red shirt leaders out, it's perhaps his (or the government's) duty to help some of the others.

The big problem is that Abhisit isn't pulling all the strings, he's doing the best with the strings that he is pulling. The strange convictions based on Army evidence seem to be out of the government's reach. Abhisit was burned badly when he naively tried to chastise the Army over their fake bomb detector corruption. He knows that this particular set of uglies is off-limit.

[Emptyset]

"These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts."

Would you like to contradict yourself any more?

They have plenty of money. They just choose to spend it on the leaders and not on the poorer red shirts.

No contradiction there. Just a contradiction in what the red shirts say they stand for.

How do you know they have plenty of money? Why have 20 or so red shirt leaders asked for state funds to help with the bail then? In reality I don't think they've got much money at all. Even PT were down to the bare minimum at the recent by-election, a Matichon article a short while ago claimed they were almost bankrupt. Not sure what Thaksin is doing with his money, but apparently not much going in the direction of Thailand. Actually, red shirt lawyers have tried to get bail for some of them, but it's been denied or set very high, for instance: http://www.prachatai...glish/node/2179 - but even so, PT/red shirts haven't done anywhere near enough imo. PT have put up bail for some of them, but most not. They claim they don't have enough money and like I say maybe they don't... but what is Thaksin doing?

Thida did say she wanted all the red shirt prisoners released btw, not just the leaders.

I don't know why Abhisit had to wait to meet Thida to do all this though, surely he could have done it anyway, just as a matter of good faith. I mean it's his government that's kept people in jail for six months, some without charge and some, according to the NHRC, have been tortured and forced to confess. Some of them have been given twenty year jail sentences without access to a proper defense. So whilst it might be a gift to help the red shirt leaders out, it's perhaps his (or the government's) duty to help some of the others.

The big problem is that Abhisit isn't pulling all the strings, he's doing the best with the strings that he is pulling. The strange convictions based on Army evidence seem to be out of the government's reach. Abhisit was burned badly when he naively tried to chastise the Army over their fake bomb detector corruption. He knows that this particular set of uglies is off-limit.

Yeah, true. Well he's in hock to them, anyway, isn't he? Now if he could win an election without military help then he might be able to take a stronger line against them.

[Siam Simon]

Yeah, true. Well he's in hock to them, anyway, isn't he? Now if he could win an election without military help then he might be able to take a stronger line against them.

I'm second guessing, but I think that Abhisit's dream is a clear run at government, free of the influence of the uglies.

[Emptyset]

Yeah, true. Well he's in hock to them, anyway, isn't he? Now if he could win an election without military help then he might be able to take a stronger line against them.

I'm second guessing, but I think that Abhisit's dream is a clear run at government, free of the influence of the uglies.

Yep. Well, in reality few governments want the military interfering. But I think Abhisit will need the military to take care of the red shirts. And perhaps PAD, for that matter. I don't know if they'll still pose a major problem if Abhisit wins the next election and it's perceived to be fair, but it's certainly a possibility. Hard to say what Prayuth is thinking though, we know he's anti-Thaksin and ultra-royalist, but what does he think of Abhisit? I think he's closer to Newin and would prefer to work with him or his people, not that Newin becoming PM is a possibility, right now... of course.

[Siam Simon]

Yeah, true. Well he's in hock to them, anyway, isn't he? Now if he could win an election without military help then he might be able to take a stronger line against them.

I'm second guessing, but I think that Abhisit's dream is a clear run at government, free of the influence of the uglies.

Yep. Well, in reality few governments want the military interfering. But I think Abhisit will need the military to take care of the red shirts. And perhaps PAD, for that matter. I don't know if they'll still pose a major problem if Abhisit wins the next election and it's perceived to be fair, but it's certainly a possibility. Hard to say what Prayuth is thinking though, we know he's anti-Thaksin and ultra-royalist, but what does he think of Abhisit? I think he's closer to Newin and would prefer to work with him or his people, not that Newin becoming PM is a possibility, right now... of course.

i was looking for the 'groan' smiley wrt your last sentence. Sadly, Newin and his gang of uber uglies seem to have manoevered themselves into a very powerful position.

Edited December 22, 2010 by Siam Simon

[rubl]

"These red shirts HAVEN"T APPLIED FOR BAIL, because the red shirts are spending so much time and money on getting bail for the LEADERS that they don't have enough time and money to supply lawyers for the poorer red shirts."

Would you like to contradict yourself any more?

They have plenty of money. They just choose to spend it on the leaders and not on the poorer red shirts.

No contradiction there. Just a contradiction in what the red shirts say they stand for.

How do you know they have plenty of money? Why have 20 or so red shirt leaders asked for state funds to help with the bail then? In reality I don't think they've got much money at all. Even PT were down to the bare minimum at the recent by-election, a Matichon article a short while ago claimed they were almost bankrupt. Not sure what Thaksin is doing with his money, but apparently not much going in the direction of Thailand. Actually, red shirt lawyers have tried to get bail for some of them, but it's been denied or set very high, for instance: http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/2179 - but even so, PT/red shirts haven't done anywhere near enough imo. PT have put up bail for some of them, but most not. They claim they don't have enough money and like I say maybe they don't... but what is Thaksin doing?

Thida did say she wanted all the red shirt prisoners released btw, not just the leaders.

I don't know why Abhisit had to wait to meet Thida to do all this though, surely he could have done it anyway, just as a matter of good faith. I mean it's his government that's kept people in jail for six months, some without charge and some, according to the NHRC, have been tortured and forced to confess. Some of them have been given twenty year jail sentences without access to a proper defense. So whilst it might be a gift to help the red shirt leaders out, it's perhaps his (or the government's) duty to help some of the others.

Just check some previous threads here or google a bit. For weeks lawyers have applied for bail for the UDD leaders. They have offered & shown millions of Baht as security. Sometimes they'd apply twice a week. Now if all that time, money and effort had been spent on the common red-shirts we might even have a situation with only the UDD leaders awaiting their process. Imagine.

Mrs. Thida started with saying 'free our leaders', it's only later that she started adding all red-shirts. And if newsflashes are to be believed she's not consistent.

The Red Shirts' new head, Thida Thavornseth, whose husband Weng Tojirakarn is one of the group's leaders detained on terrorism charges, has said the Reds would intensify their campaign to secure the release of senior figures.

The government started helping red-shirts incarcerated before the PM met Mrs. Thida.

The governments duty is to allow legal assistance to all incarcerated. If necessary provide lawyers (there are only so many waiting before you). To provide bail would be a gift, thanks to the taxpayers. Start bottom up this time, it's all about the common men anyway isn't it ?

(edit: add link)

Edited December 22, 2010 by rubl

[Emptyset]

Just check some previous threads here or google a bit. For weeks lawyers have applied for bail for the UDD leaders. They have offered & shown millions of Baht as security. Sometimes they'd apply twice a week. Now if all that time, money and effort had been spent on the common red-shirts we might even have a situation with only the UDD leaders awaiting their process. Imagine.

Mrs. Thida started with saying 'free our leaders', it's only later that she started adding all red-shirts. And if newsflashes are to be believed she's not consistent.

The Red Shirts' new head, Thida Thavornseth, whose husband Weng Tojirakarn is one of the group's leaders detained on terrorism charges, has said the Reds would intensify their campaign to secure the release of senior figures.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4100811

The government started helping red-shirts incarcerated before the PM met Mrs. Thida.

The governments duty is to allow legal assistance to all incarcerated. If necessary provide lawyers (there are only so many waiting before you). To provide bail would be a gift, thanks to the taxpayers. Start bottom up this time, it's all about the common men anyway isn't it ?

(edit: add link)

Yes, you're probably right. I saw they were able to offer a couple of million or so for each leader. Some individuals are using their own collateral. Anyway, you're absolutely right that they should've done more to help ordinary protesters and I've been saying that to red shirts since June or so. I'd love to hear an explanation from someone like Jatuporn as to why he hasn't insisted on help (from red lawyers) for the grassroots he claims to represent. Thida might be inconsistent. I guess at least she put a word in for the ordinary folk though and was willing to meet Abhisit to speed up the process. Unlike Jatuporn who doesn't seem to have mentioned them once and would rather people stay jailed than ask for help.

[jayjay0]

It has been six months sense the Terrorists were stopped. There is very few people left who do not know what happened. Most of those still defending the red shirt actions have learned to do so in a way that doe's not actually say the red shirts were rite the Government was wrong. They manage to avoided claiming there actions were rite with the use of innuendo's and insinuations along with misleading statements.

To try to reason with these people is like trying to change the mind of a bucket full of hammers.

And trying to have an intelligent, non-partisan debate on TV is often like trying to have a debate with a bucket full of hammers.

The operative word in your reply is Intelligent. With all that happened when a person refuses to admit there part in it even when there part started it and continued on to throw missiles into civilian areas from civilian areas they were illegally occupying. The only thing they are big enough to admit they should not have done was breaking the Geneva convention and raiding a hospital. They were practising there freeedom of speach ( witch some posters claim does not exist) From a stage with Words designed to bring about what was happening They did a good job of it. In there hearts they are probably disappointed all of Bangkok didn't burn. That is my low opinion of them speaking out.

Well I really think I have made my point here. If I have not I refer you back to the operative word.

A intelligent discussion would open with some thing like this.

There has been a lot of things gone wrong here. We admit are part. dosen't make any difference who opens the conversation. As it sets a fact is put out and rather than saying yes that is rite what can we do to fix it and avoid a reaccurance It is denied.

Yes the army fired on unarmed protesters. Yes there was unarmed protesters making it possible for the armed protesters. Cooking cleaning building barricades for them getting supplies for them. You will note that I said unarmed not innocent a big difference they knew what was happening. I am presuming here you do not maintain the position that they were stupid people.

And yes there were news reporters standing in a area of combat.

They might even say a lot of people were deprived of there means of making a living can we help them.

To you start to get the drift?

[colinscarr]

Regardless of whether they've applied for bail or not, justice delayed is justice denied. So why have these people not had their day in court yet for minor crimes allegedly committed over seven months ago.?

We aren't talking abouit the Redshirt leaders here, just their poor bl**dy infantry - who are victime of the Redshirt leaders at least as much as the Bangkokians whose city was disrupted last spring.