Driver Of Sedan In Bangkok Horror Road Accident Was A 16-Year Old Girl

[katana]

the camera really shudders at about 10 seconds. Maybe the cam was mounted on the same structure as the overpass?

Good point about the shuddering. Hadn't noticed that.

[groovyc]

I haven't followed all the posts, so this is probably not news any more,

but I here that apart from the 16yr old driver who is supposed to be a

distant relative of the royal family, many of the victims would be students from

Thammasat or Chula, which woould mean there could be some influential

families involved. (at least one of the dead is a colleague of a friend in Chula)

We may see some interesting turns in the story if there are any high-so victimes

involved, and hopefully that might help bring about justice. Meanwhile, it would

be interesting to see if the Thai public learns anything from this at all...

[Nisa]

It is funny people keep restating what I have said either out of context, stating things I didn't say or telling me what I think. One can only assume they are reacting on emotions because that is usually when people are the most ignorant because they are not thinking rationally. Much of the emotions here go so far as having this girl convicted prior to the completion of the investigation of the cause of the accident being determined or even knowing anything beyond the slightest pieces of facts as well as being certain a cover-up will take place and the girl will not have charges filed against her .

Thailand like most civilized nations do not look to punish minors any more but instead look to help them when they get involved with breaking the law. At 16 you are still a minor in Thailand as in most countries. Thai law currently sees the "practice and treatment provided for juvenile offenders toward their behavioral improvement with the purpose to give the juveniles a chance to improve themselves and successfully reintegrate into their families and the society after released, more than using suppression and punishment"

In other words the laws involving accountability for minors is NOT to make a bunch of hang-em-high expats happy but the laws are designed to help the child become a positive functioning member of society. Thankfully Thailand and other countries have taken the time to develop these laws over many many years with rational thought for what is best for society.

A 16 year old is not an adult and they cannot sign a contract nor can they be held monetarily liable for their actions. So, unless it is shown an adult allowed her to operate the vehicle, assuming the accident is her fault, then there will be no payments (minus a little insurance) to the victim families unless the parents decide to step-up on their own.

If this girl is not a delinquent and this was some kind of one-off mistake she made in an otherwise good life and healthy family unit then there is no reason under the law or any benefit that would be served by her doing time. She is going to live with this mistake for the rest of her life if this is the case. If it is found that this is a girl who has been running wild and shows no respect or regard for others then it might benefit her to see additional consequences for her actions such as incarceration.

Also "criminal negligence" is somewhat defined as doing something that you or a reasonable person would know would likely result in injury or death. The reason a minor doesn't face this kind of charge in circumstances like this is because they don't think this way. Nobody takes their parents car as a kid thinks they are going to get in an accident or even considers such a thing will happen. They think they know it all and that things like this only happen to other people ... their minds and life experiences are just not developed yet in most cases. And this is a big reason why minors are not treated as adults.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Nisa

[RedNIvar]

Bottom line, she was 16 years old and had no business being behind the wheel of a car. If she had followed the law and had not driven, this tragedy would not have happened at the very point of time. The overloading of passengers and/or NGV tank type is irrelevant to this point.

If she is a minor, then the owner of the car should be held responsible for handing the vehicle to a minor. IMHO.

[preechathan]

I have taken that van route over 50 times in my life. The van leaves Thammasat, NSTDA, AIT (with an occasional pickup at Bangkok University, if not full) and then heads to the tollway. The first stop is at Central Lad Prow and then to Moh Chit BTS, MRT terminal. I have driven in the same van as the female van driver over five times. She was actually one of the few van drivers that I actually liked. She was very nice and always had a smile for me. I often ride in the front seat when I ride in the vans. Most of the time, I am in the opinion that a lot of van drivers drive too fast, especially given the weight of the vans when fully loaded. However, this female driver was not aggressive with her driving when I have driven with her and was not prone to drive at very high speeds.

I am also friendly with one of the injured. A student from the Maldives who is studying at AIT. He is in one of the photos lying down on the road on the tollway with a bottled water next to him. Not sure why he is not getting talk in the media. I am very sympathetic to this accident because it could have been me or any of my friends.

I find it strange that the Bangkok Post first reported that the 16 year old girl was "seriously injured" and now how they have removed the article from the front page and most read section of their website. This, even though there are over 100,000 people commenting on this incident at a facebook webpage specifically made for this accident.

I have also heard that the 16 year old's uncle is a big land owner in Novanakorn, Pathumthani.

I am concerned that there is a lack of seat belts in the vans for 14 passengers and also how there are not any seat belts in the back seats of taxis. Also, there isn't any need for an overloaded van to be driving at high speeds. I believe a governor should be placed on the vans to prevent speeding (driving 110 -130 past Don Muang airport seems to be the norm).

I feel sorry for the families and hope that this accident will jump start a shift in the driving behavior of van drivers and civilians on the thai motorways. There is already a group of Thammasat students that have united behind this cause. Interesting to see how this plays out.

[atyclb]

TAWP: I am going to take your word that it's a fake. I can't imagine anyone being in a serious crash and having their wits together enough to twitter anything. Relatively minor crashes can be fairly traumatic; a crash like that one would no doubt leave a person pretty disoriented for a time.

I don't know of course but we can clearly rule out that she tried to help anyone who was hurt. I would not rule out that she stood there updating twitter a few minutes after the accident. I would like to know the truth but we will never know I suppose

I used to drive 30,000 km per year on motorcycle in Bangkok in the early 90s and when everybody had to stop in the traffic jam the accident caused, then I just continued to zig-zag until I reached the accident scene. I saw the most horrendous accidents, so many that I don't want to think about it, I also saw one disturbing habit that some displayed.

Observation: Some people would do nothing to help accident victims, more poorer people would check and try to help the accident victims than rich people. This is judging from the (value of the) cars they drove. I have seen quite a few expensive cars causing accidents where the motorcycle driver was badly hurt, I have seen (the rich) driver walk out of his car, move away a bit from the bleeding victim (stand on the side of the car not facing the bleeding victim), pick up his mobile and call his insurance company. Not one look at the bleeding victim. Not one look. I looked extra careful after I had seen it once and I can confirm the behaviour, I have seen it more than once

So could this 16 year old girl had done the same? Why not?

I have been at the scene of a couple of bad MVA's with a friend that is an emergency doctor. One really needs to have experience in order to try to help in a meaningful way. Local pressure to control bleeding is ok. Have seen the so called do gooders do more harm then good especially when they turn a C spine injury into a paraplegic or death. airway, control of C spine, control of bleeding, perhaps using a hollow pen to try to alleviate a tension pneumothorax. At least use a rolled up newspaper and some tape for the C spine before you move someone.

Many years ago I was a passenger in a car that started spinning at high speed in the rain. It hit a wood telephone pole on the drivers side causing the driver major leg injury. I walked away with a small cut on my scalp. I was dazed and in retrospect not 100% lucid but I refused to go with the ambulance to the hospital.

The girls car got some serious damage and likely she was dazed also. In addition many people are addicted to social networking so if she did indeed post it just is her way(an millions of others in G7 countries) of doing things.

[TAWP]

Who exactly are her parents? Is it a breach of Lese Majeste laws to talk about it?

She is a descendant to Rama 1 (many people are), she is NOT royal herself.

[TAWP]

The CCTV footage looks like a bunch of headlights. Hopefully there will be a CGI version that they can overlay it with.

A simplistic CGI-rendering of the events was shown on TV during the afternoon.

[roamer]

It is funny people keep restating what I have said either out of context, stating things I didn't say or telling me what I think. One can only assume they are reacting on emotions because that is usually when people are the most ignorant because they are not thinking rationally. Much of the emotions here go so far as having this girl convicted prior to the completion of the investigation of the cause of the accident being determined or even knowing anything beyond the slightest pieces of facts as well as being certain a cover-up will take place and the girl will not have charges filed against her .

Thailand like most civilized nations do not look to punish minors any more but instead look to help them when they get involved with breaking the law. At 16 you are still a minor in Thailand as in most countries. Thai law currently sees the "practice and treatment provided for juvenile offenders toward their behavioral improvement with the purpose to give the juveniles a chance to improve themselves and successfully reintegrate into their families and the society after released, more than using suppression and punishment"

In other words the laws involving accountability for minors is NOT to make a bunch of hang-em-high expats happy but the laws are designed to help the child become a positive functioning member of society. Thankfully Thailand and other countries have taken the time to develop these laws over many many years with rational thought for what is best for society.

A 16 year old is not an adult and they cannot sign a contract nor can they be held monetarily liable for their actions. So, unless it is shown an adult allowed her to operate the vehicle, assuming the accident is her fault, then there will be no payments (minus a little insurance) to the victim families unless the parents decide to step-up on their own.

If this girl is not a delinquent and this was some kind of one-off mistake she made in an otherwise good life and healthy family unit then there is no reason under the law or any benefit that would be served by her doing time. She is going to live with this mistake for the rest of her life if this is the case. If it is found that this is a girl who has been running wild and shows no respect or regard for others then it might benefit her to see additional consequences for her actions such as incarceration.

Also "criminal negligence" is somewhat defined as doing something that you or a reasonable person would know would likely result in injury or death. The reason a minor doesn't face this kind of charge in circumstances like this is because they don't think this way. Nobody takes their parents car as a kid thinks they are going to get in an accident or even considers such a thing will happen. They think they know it all and that things like this only happen to other people ... their minds and life experiences are just not developed yet in most cases. And this is a big reason why minors are not treated as adults.

Self edit. Reason, not worth arguing with you.

Edited December 29, 2010 by roamer

[Petesear]

First this was not a Road traffic Accident, it was a Road Traffic Collision. The term 'Accident' really means that nobody is to blame, but as with most RTC's it was someone's fault.

Exactly who is to blame will need to be proven, but the 16yr old Honda should be prosecuted for something, even if it is only driving illegally!

I know that this RTC will not be investigated properly, the said girl will walk(or drive) free.

If the Honda driver was not Thai I'm sure the police would look into it with more interest!

RIP to the victims, another sad waste of life in The land of Smiles...

[thaicbr]

That SMS message has already been found to have come from another girl and not Pear. However, she is clearly on her phone directly after the accident.

Beano.. this is were you are wrong.. the message came from the driver Pear.. but was re-tweeted by Super....and many others... This has been confirmed by people who saw the original tweet from Pear before her Twitter account it was closed.

[Nisa]

That SMS message has already been found to have come from another girl and not Pear. However, she is clearly on her phone directly after the accident.

Beano.. this is were you are wrong.. the message came from the driver Pear.. but was re-tweeted by Super....and many others... This has been confirmed by people who saw the original tweet from Pear before her Twitter account it was closed.

my brother's friend's cousin heard from his sister that she knows first hand that somebody on the internet says this is a fact.

[Nisa]

First this was not a Road traffic Accident, it was a Road Traffic Collision. The term 'Accident' really means that nobody is to blame, but as with most RTC's it was someone's fault.

Exactly who is to blame will need to be proven, but the 16yr old Honda should be prosecuted for something, even if it is only driving illegally!

I know that this RTC will not be investigated properly, the said girl will walk(or drive) free.

If the Honda driver was not Thai I'm sure the police would look into it with more interest!

RIP to the victims, another sad waste of life in The land of Smiles...

The word accident implies there was no intention and doesn't imply or not imply fault. If somebody was to not be paying attention while walking and step on your foot it is still an accident even though the person not paying attention is at fault. Police and prosecutors in certain places have decided not to use the word accident for obvious reasons. Kind of like Fox News not using the term "suicide bomber" and instead using the words "homicide bomber"

As for prosecution for driving without a DL, it appears the punishment is simply a small fine.

In the article it states the police are investigating further to determine what if any other charges will be brought.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Nisa

[zthyadat]

It's disturbing how people's minds work. Every New Years hundreds die from road accidents, yet, an accident occurs that involves a well-to-do child and gruesome images of blood and guts and people hanging from guard rails all of a sudden it's a huge media story.

It's sickening, but this is just entertainment for the masses. Have fun "debating".

Jeez, a bit smug, aren't we? The reason this is already a big debate (I'll leave out the inverted commas) in the Thai media has nothing to do with the death count or road safety. It is about the potential for skewed justice. Many people are anticipating that the young girl will be excused any punishment because she is from an "important" family. Moo Ham, the "Mercedes Bus Stop Killer", also the progeny of "important" people has still not done any jail time pending some appeal or other process of 'justice' that may never occur.

So what makes this news, Mr Chunky - and therefore worth debating - is that it is perceived as a potential class struggle - the people at the bottom half of the ladder are sick of seeing the people on the top half getting away - often quite literally - with murder, and are becoming more vocal about it.

[MaiDong]

The CCTV footage looks like a bunch of headlights. Hopefully there will be a CGI version that they can overlay it with.

A simplistic CGI-rendering of the events was shown on TV during the afternoon.

Simplistic to the core.

If you look at the facebook page that has been created in response to this incident, you can clearly see from the stills of the CCTV camera that the sedan - after collision - veered to the right of the minivan, not the left as simplistically shown in the CGI render, am I missing something here? It may or may not be important in the grand scheme of things but it's a pretty crappy CGI render if this is the case, why bother at all if it's not accurate??

Am I allowed to link to the facebook account photos?

[rixalex]

If it is found that this is a girl who has been running wild and shows no respect or regard for others then it might benefit her to see additional consequences for her actions such as incarceration.

There's no "if" about it.

16 year olds jumping in and driving cars without ever having had driving lessons, without licenses, knowingly breaking the law, are running wild, are showing no respect or regard for others.

[MaiDong]

Moo Ham, the "Mercedes Bus Stop Killer", also the progeny of "important" people has still not done any jail time pending some appeal or other process of 'justice' that may never occur.

This person got 10 years, did he never serve a single day?

[zthyadat]

Moo Ham, the "Mercedes Bus Stop Killer", also the progeny of "important" people has still not done any jail time pending some appeal or other process of 'justice' that may never occur.

This person got 10 years, did he never serve a single day?

Still "on appeal" more than three years later... they had the swift trial with the hefty sentence, then bail pending a very slow appeal - that old chestnut. Long enough for witnesses to die or change their minds, for nobody to give dam_n anymore, or just plain forget. One wonders if this new case will revive a bit of interest in the Moo Ham one: "Hey, hang on, where is he now?"

[zthyadat]

If it is found that this is a girl who has been running wild and shows no respect or regard for others then it might benefit her to see additional consequences for her actions such as incarceration.

There's no "if" about it.

16 year olds jumping in and driving cars without ever having had driving lessons, without licenses, knowingly breaking the law, are running wild, are showing no respect or regard for others.

Yes, an outlook doubtless learned from her parents.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Beano.. this is were you are wrong.. the message came from the driver Pear.. but was re-tweeted by Super....and many others... This has been confirmed by people who saw the original tweet from Pear before her Twitter account it was closed.

please clarify - it's a fact? that she tweeted she 'may have killed' people followed by 555? it's hardly believable

[webfact]

TOLLWAY CAR CRASH

Sedan driver to face several charges

By The Nation

Names of eight people killed in the van accident

The 16-year-old driver of the sedan involved in the Monday night horror crash is to face multiple charges after a senior police commander discussed the progress and details of the accident with investigators yesterday.

Pol Maj-General Amnuay Nimmano, a deputy metropolitan bureau commander, said it should be known by today which charges would be laid against the unnamed girl. "A road accident caused by carelessness subjects violators to a maximum three years in jail, and driving without a licence is a separate offence that has a hefty fine," he said. To ensure her security, the driver has been moved to an unspecified hospital after being briefly treated in Vibhavadi Hospital. She has been the subject of a public outburst on various Web boards, including a Facebook page set up to criticise her.

Police spokesman Maj-General Prawut Thawornsiri has warned people posting online diatribes that they might be accused of libel or defamation, because the driver had not yet been named a suspect.

Vibhavadi police, meanwhile, have questioned the girl's mothe and called on witnesses to volunteer information. Case investigator Pol Colonel Chaiwat Kalanthapura said the offence of causing deaths and injuries through carelessness, among others, should be levelled against her.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, speaking about the accident, said nobody was above the law and police were working on the case. Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban chose not to comment on rumours the girl had fled Thailand, saying he would have the police make a statement regarding progress in the case. Actor Nat Thephasdin na Ayutthaya, who is the unnamed girl's stepbrother, said the parents, and the girl herself, were sad about what happened and dismissed speculation that the family was using social privilege to influence police investigators. - The Nation

Eight people killed in the van accident

1. Pratya Khantha, 21, third-year economics student, Thammasat University

2. Sudawadi Nilwan, third-year law student, Thammasat University

3. Kiattiman Rod-aree, 23, employee, National Electronics and Computer Technology Centre

4. Pinyo Jinanthuya,34, assistant to the dean of Thammasat University's Faculty of Architecture and Planning.

5. Trong Sudthanakit, 24, graduate of Faculty of Political Science, Thammasat University

6. Ukrit Ratanachomsri,30, researcher at the National Centre for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology

7. Dr Sastra Chaothiang,33, scientist at the National Science and Technology Development Agency

8. Naruemon Pitathanang, 38, the van's driver

-- The Nation 2010-12-30

[TheyCallmeScooter]

IT WOULD SEEM IT IS. AS OTHER PEOPLE STATE THEY SAW IT.

Is that supposed to be a convincing argument for the tweet's legitimacy?

The fact that the Twitter account has been hidden is telling though, surely?

The deceased are deceased and the families are the only ones that now can deserve justice but most would much rather see themselves and their family get something positive from the death in terms of money. Looking up a girl who made a horrendous mistake without knowing anything as to her state of mind or if she has past incidents of recklessness really would serve nobody at this point unless they have a westernized and revengeful nature. We simply just do not know all the facts this soon into things and much of what is being posted is rumors and misinformation to insight people simply because this girl's parent's last name.

Instead of demanding the head of a minor, people should be asking how she came to be behind the wheel and if an adult allowed her to drive knowing her age.

I have read all of Nisa's posts and have yet to see a single statement which isn't clearly valid? I completely understand the emotions in play, but people must understand children are children. The issue here simply has to be a discussion about children driving motor vehicles that can (and quite often) kill. It should not be a discussion demanding this girl be made an example out of, on the basis of her last name (though I completely sympathise with the sentiment, I just feel anger directed at a child is tragically misplaced) and from the alleged (seemingly brutally cold) Tweet she ostensibly authored (medical shock is SERIOUS BUSINESS - you cannot make judgements about the girl from anything she wrote whilst clearly in serious shock - a cold reaction laughing at unspeakable horror is actually very much the expectation and even the function served by the human body going into shock).

I might be speaking from a position of bias as I very nearly partly contributed to a similar horrific accident at her age. Zero malice or 'criminal negligence' involved (not from us kids, in any case - the RTA were probably culpable in licensing us), just sheer childish inexperience (both drivers), neither of us were qualified to drive, we were just kids who shouldn't have been at the wheels. Everyone emerged from the cars without a scratch via sheer luck, but it could easily have been...shudder. Both of us were in shock and laughing idiotically immediately following the near-disaster, and I'm quite certain neither of us were 'bad', 'cold' or even 'irresponsible' kids - shock is serious business,. We spent the day dry-retching in horror when we came to. As this girl might well have, once the shock subsided.

Tragic stuff all-round. RIP

[ChiangMaiFun]

IT WOULD SEEM IT IS. AS OTHER PEOPLE STATE THEY SAW IT.

Is that supposed to be a convincing argument for the tweet's legitimacy?

The fact that the Twitter account has been hidden is telling though, surely?

The deceased are deceased and the families are the only ones that now can deserve justice but most would much rather see themselves and their family get something positive from the death in terms of money. Looking up a girl who made a horrendous mistake without knowing anything as to her state of mind or if she has past incidents of recklessness really would serve nobody at this point unless they have a westernized and revengeful nature. We simply just do not know all the facts this soon into things and much of what is being posted is rumors and misinformation to insight people simply because this girl's parent's last name.

Instead of demanding the head of a minor, people should be asking how she came to be behind the wheel and if an adult allowed her to drive knowing her age.

I have read all of Nisa's posts and have yet to see a single statement which isn't clearly valid? I completely understand the emotions in play, but people must understand children are children. The issue here simply has to be a discussion about children driving motor vehicles that can (and quite often) kill. It should not be a discussion demanding this girl be made an example out of, on the basis of her last name (though I completely sympathise with the sentiment, I just feel anger directed at a child is tragically misplaced) and from the alleged (seemingly brutally cold) Tweet she ostensibly authored (medical shock is SERIOUS BUSINESS - you cannot make judgements about the girl from anything she wrote whilst clearly in serious shock - a cold reaction laughing at unspeakable horror is actually very much the expectation and even the function served by the human body going into shock).

I might be speaking from a position of bias as I very nearly partly contributed to a similar horrific accident at her age. Zero malice or 'criminal negligence' involved (not from us kids, in any case - the RTA were probably culpable in licensing us), just sheer childish inexperience (both drivers), neither of us were qualified to drive, we were just kids who shouldn't have been at the wheels. Everyone emerged from the cars without a scratch via sheer luck, but it could easily have been...shudder. Both of us were in shock and laughing idiotically immediately following the near-disaster, and I'm quite certain neither of us were 'bad', 'cold' or even 'irresponsible' kids - shock is serious business,. We spent the day dry-retching in horror when we came to. As this girl might well have, once the shock subsided.

Tragic stuff all-round. RIP

Yes but it's not just about that is it? it's about the culture here of irresponsibility - letting kids ride bikes and drive cars - paying people off if they get caught or cause damage etc. In this case it just highlights the total cultural irresponsibility and that's why there has been such a reaction - she's just a catalyst. This sort of thing could happen everyday of the week - the driving here is appalling - most of it lack of education and training but most of it sheer selfishness. Tragic... wasteful loss of life.

[Baa_Mango]

I think we should take a step back - this girl is 18 years old.

How do you extract a powerful person from this situation ?

Say she is 16 years old - making her unaccountable for her actions.

Yes her father is big, and yes they censored everything even though that first pic of her' bb'ing still leaked. She is not 16, it even seems that obvious when you see her leaning with her miniskirt on the BB. Remember how even a few initial reports said the driver was 18? And yes the comments on her twitter are true and have been spotting/read by many people. Too bad so many people here are able to live outside the law. 400b fine for 8 deaths ehhh

[beano2274]

Her father has come out and said she should be held responsible for her actions, but that people should leave her alone until the Police have finished the investigation, as she has still not officially been charged or not identified as the culprit.

[Heng]

The CCTV footage looks like a bunch of headlights. Hopefully there will be a CGI version that they can overlay it with.

One of the Thai blogs or websites mentioned in the original post has 4 or 5 frames taken from this short video clip. The Honda seems to attempt a pass on the nearside (to left of minibus), misjudged the distance, clips the bus and starts to slide sideways with headlights pointing almost straight at the left-side barrier before both vehicles move out of shot.

Is there enough room in the frame to see that there was no other vehicle involved? I mean, is it clear enough to see that the red paint 'other car' appears to be something made up?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Her father has come out and said she should be held responsible for her actions, but that people should leave her alone until the Police have finished the investigation, as she has still not officially been charged or not identified as the culprit.

A sensible approach but maybe he should comment how she got the car? the keys? permission to drive allegedly underage? probably not the first time she has driven - isn't that a Fathers responsibility too?

[Daewoo]

Lots of posts, and some good points... I thought I would add my 2 Satangs worth...

* Having a licence doesn't mean this accident/collision wouldn't have happened... If Pear was a year older and had a licence, would all of the 'Lock Her Up' cries be the same??? Having a licence only means that she has passed a test, and has a piece of paper to say she passed a test... doesn't mean she is more or less able to drive... Not saying it is OK for her to drive without a licence, but that isn't the reason the accident happened...

* In Australia, you can drive, as a learner, at 16... supervised by an adult... would we still lock her up???

IMHO, any action against her should be because of her driving, not her licence status, or age, or Family Influence... It should also be measured by how she was driving compared to every other driver in Thailand, not compared to drivers in Australia, Pomgolia, or the US...

For the most part, drivers in Thailand either don't understand the possible consequence of their driving, or don't care.... It doesn't have to be an over regulated nanny state, but I would like to see some sort of law and order on the roads...

I hope a lot of posters went back to the other thread about this collision and retracted their statement attacking "All Public Transport Drivers" and minivan drivers, in the wake of revelations since...

Cheers,

Daewoo

[Orac]

Yes but it's not just about that is it? it's about the culture here of irresponsibility - letting kids ride bikes and drive cars - paying people off if they get caught or cause damage etc. In this case it just highlights the total cultural irresponsibility and that's why there has been such a reaction - she's just a catalyst. This sort of thing could happen everyday of the week - the driving here is appalling - most of it lack of education and training but most of it sheer selfishness. Tragic... wasteful loss of life.

A very good point. As a number of posters have pointed out there is no enforcement of the rules on the roads here and it is not at all uncommon to see young ppl driving cars and motorbikes who are very clearly underage. I have been stopped by the police outside schools a number of times so as these kids can get out on the motorbikes. The greatest tragedy here would be that, in peoples desire to see this girl punished, the cultural issues involved with driving here are brushed back under the carpet.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Lots of posts, and some good points... I thought I would add my 2 Satangs worth...

* Having a licence doesn't mean this accident/collision wouldn't have happened... If Pear was a year older and had a licence, would all of the 'Lock Her Up' cries be the same??? Having a licence only means that she has passed a test, and has a piece of paper to say she passed a test... doesn't mean she is more or less able to drive... Not saying it is OK for her to drive without a licence, but that isn't the reason the accident happened...

* In Australia, you can drive, as a learner, at 16... supervised by an adult... would we still lock her up???

IMHO, any action against her should be because of her driving, not her licence status, or age, or Family Influence... It should also be measured by how she was driving compared to every other driver in Thailand, not compared to drivers in Australia, Pomgolia, or the US...

For the most part, drivers in Thailand either don't understand the possible consequence of their driving, or don't care.... It doesn't have to be an over regulated nanny state, but I would like to see some sort of law and order on the roads...

I hope a lot of posters went back to the other thread about this collision and retracted their statement attacking "All Public Transport Drivers" and minivan drivers, in the wake of revelations since...

Cheers,

Daewoo

agreed with additional observation that it DOES matter if she is driving illegally (i.e. underage) and as for your last point largely, in my experience, they don't care about other roadusers examples abound - there seems to be no curtesy at all - no giving way, no indication and a 'mai pen rai' attitude.