Video Clips Worsen Case Of Detained Thais In Cambodia

[Insight]

Try reading the Nation.

The whole thing, back to back?

There's this artice which states he gave the order to check out the border region, but nothing specifically about crossing over into Cambodian territory.

There's a press conference to follow shortly apparently. Will be interesting to hear what is said.

Edited January 4, 2011 by webfact
Link changed. Article was posted earlier in this thread

[termad]

Where are PADs loyal fans in TVF?

Not much has changed since their illegal airport seizures it seems.

Personally think the govt will have more to gain through having these clowns locked up for a while.

Stage is now set for Hun Sen to release the prisoners to much fanfare and handshakes with Abhisit...

... or not. Time will tell.

The problem that the government will have is explaining to the Cambodian Government why the chief clown was in Cambodia on the orders of the PM - see the story in the paper that must not be mentioned today.

There's nothing in the Bangkok Post that says Panich was in Cambodia on the orders of the PM. it merely says he was told to check the contested border areas.

The deliberate intrusion into Cambodia seems to have been his group's own initiative.

If it was his on his own initiative why would Panich need to call Abhisit in the early hours of the morning to confirm that he (Panich) was in Cambodia?

Why didn't Abhisit or Somkiat ring back and tell him to leave Cambodian territory immediately?

[Prapoj]

Try reading the Nation.

The whole thing, back to back?

There's this artice which states he gave the order to check out the border region, but nothing specifically about crossing over into Cambodian territory.

There's a press conference to follow shortly apparently. Will be interesting to hear what is said.

Some instruction need not be spelled out to the last details.

For an example, PM give the order to control the protesters. He did not give the order to shoot at the protesters.

[Buchholz]

Where are PADs loyal fans in TVF?

Not much has changed since their illegal airport seizures it seems.

Personally think the govt will have more to gain through having these clowns locked up for a while.

Stage is now set for Hun Sen to release the prisoners to much fanfare and handshakes with Abhisit...

... or not. Time will tell.

The problem that the government will have is explaining to the Cambodian Government why the chief clown was in Cambodia on the orders of the PM - see the story in the paper that must not be mentioned today.

You must be talking about a different paper than "the other paper" then because the article I read in "the other paper" didn't say the PM ordered Panich into Cambodia.

.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Buchholz

[Prapoj]

"Please tell Somkiat to inform the prime minister that we are already inside Cambodia. I planned to call the prime minister myself but it is okay now," Mr Panich says on the phone to his secretary .

Time to get a good lawyer.

[Buchholz]

The problem that the government will have is explaining to the Cambodian Government why the chief clown was in Cambodia on the orders of the PM - see the story in the paper that must not be mentioned today.

You must be talking about a different paper than "the other paper" then because the article I read in "the other paper" didn't say the PM ordered Panich into Cambodia.

If he (Abhisit) wasn't aware that Panich was going to enter Cambodian territory during his little look around why would Panich feel the need to inform him that he had done so. - In the early hours of the morning

We have second-hand words saying that Panich allegedly was talking to his aide to allegedly inform him to allegedly talk to Abhisit's aide in order to allegedly tell Abhisit.

Until something more definitive is reported on, it's nearly the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon in terms of Panich actually talking to Abhisit.

[Prapoj]

The problem that the government will have is explaining to the Cambodian Government why the chief clown was in Cambodia on the orders of the PM - see the story in the paper that must not be mentioned today.

You must be talking about a different paper than "the other paper" then because the article I read in "the other paper" didn't say the PM ordered Panich into Cambodia.

If he (Abhisit) wasn't aware that Panich was going to enter Cambodian territory during his little look around why would Panich feel the need to inform him that he had done so. - In the early hours of the morning

We have second-hand words saying that Panich allegedly was talking to his aide to allegedly inform him to allegedly talk to Abhisit's aide in order to allegedly tell Abhisit.

Until something more definitive is reported on, it's nearly the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon in terms of Panich actually talking to Abhisit.

I like the way you use the word "allegedly".

[chuang]

Where are PADs loyal fans in TVF?

Not much has changed since their illegal airport seizures it seems.

Hiding with tails between their legs...

[termad]

The problem that the government will have is explaining to the Cambodian Government why the chief clown was in Cambodia on the orders of the PM - see the story in the paper that must not be mentioned today.

You must be talking about a different paper than "the other paper" then because the article I read in "the other paper" didn't say the PM ordered Panich into Cambodia.

If he (Abhisit) wasn't aware that Panich was going to enter Cambodian territory during his little look around why would Panich feel the need to inform him that he had done so. - In the early hours of the morning

We have second-hand words saying that Panich allegedly was talking to his aide to allegedly inform him to allegedly talk to Abhisit's aide in order to allegedly tell Abhisit.

Until something more definitive is reported on, it's nearly the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon in terms of Panich actually talking to Abhisit.

You're right Panich most probably wasn't even in Cambodia as the VDO simply shows somebody who looks incredibily like Panich allegedly talking talking to his secretary. The problem is who the hell is the man in gaol in Cambodia? And which PM was this lookalike allegedly trying to contact? Was it Abhisit or Hun Sen? I think it's all a CIA plot to discredit Osama Bin Laden.

Edited January 4, 2011 by termad

[klikster]

As I said above it's time Thais accepted the facts. It's pointless saying that because villages in Cambodia were once Thai they should rightfully belong to Thailand because the international borders have been drawn and there is no way they're going to be changed. Accept it as a fact and move on.

+1

"were once Thai" could be said of Vientiane, Phnom Penh, Kuala Lumphur, etc, etc.. "were once Thai" is nonsense and the incident, as another poster alluded to, could well be a planned diversion to stir up nationalistic fervor in favor of the government.

[klikster]

You're right Panich most probably wasn't even in Cambodia as the VDO simply shows somebody who looks incredibily like Panich allegedly talking talking to his secretary. The problem is who the hell is the man in gaol in Cambodia? And which PM was this lookalike trying to contact? Was it Abhisit or Hun Sen? I think it's all a CIA plot to discredit Osama Bin Laden.

[Buchholz]

You must be talking about a different paper than "the other paper" then because the article I read in "the other paper" didn't say the PM ordered Panich into Cambodia.

If he (Abhisit) wasn't aware that Panich was going to enter Cambodian territory during his little look around why would Panich feel the need to inform him that he had done so. - In the early hours of the morning

We have second-hand words saying that Panich allegedly was talking to his aide to allegedly inform him to allegedly talk to Abhisit's aide in order to allegedly tell Abhisit.

Until something more definitive is reported on, it's nearly the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon in terms of Panich actually talking to Abhisit.

You're right Panich most probably wasn't even in Cambodia as the VDO simply shows somebody who looks incredibily like Panich allegedly talking talking to his secretary. The problem is who the hell is the man in gaol in Cambodia? And which PM was this lookalike trying to contact? Was it Abhisit or Hun Sen? I think it's all a CIA plot to discredit Osama Bin Laden.

I guess that's where you and I differ. You misread the Bangkok Post article by saying Abhisit ordered him into Cambodia when it didn't.

I point out where it hasn't been established yet as to who Panich was talking to or what was said and you fill in all the gaps on your own.

[Orac]

I guess that's where you and I differ. You misread the Bangkok Post article by saying Abhisit ordered him into Cambodia when it didn't.

I point out where it hasn't been established yet as to who Panich was talking to or what was said and you fill in all the gaps on your own.

The title of the Nation piece - PM says he assigned Panich to inspect disputed border area - is pretty much an admission that Abhisit instructed him to go to a place that Cambodia believes is their sovereign territory which seems pretty stupid to me. That Panich went even further into what appears to be undisputed Cambodian territory doesn't let Abhisit off the hook for excercising a serious misjudgement be it for the original instruction or the person he picked to carry it out surely??

[Buchholz]

I guess that's where you and I differ. You misread the Bangkok Post article by saying Abhisit ordered him into Cambodia when it didn't.

I point out where it hasn't been established yet as to who Panich was talking to or what was said and you fill in all the gaps on your own.

The title of the Nation piece - PM says he assigned Panich to inspect disputed border area - is pretty much an admission that Abhisit instructed him to go to a place that Cambodia believes is their sovereign territory which seems pretty stupid to me. That Panich went even further into what appears to be undisputed Cambodian territory doesn't let Abhisit off the hook for excercising a serious misjudgement be it for the original instruction or the person he picked to carry it out surely??

I'm just pointing out the obvious difference between

"PM says he assigned Panich to inspect disputed border area"

and

"the chief clown was in Cambodia on the orders of the PM"

Still, I'm willing to wait for the pending news conference before coming to such conclusive determinations that many have already seemed to arrive at.

[Lite Beer]

A number of posts have been removed while under Moderation review.

Others have been deleted for commenting on moderation.

[RedNIvar]

Where are PADs loyal fans in TVF?

Not much has changed since their illegal airport seizures it seems.

All 7 of them are currently sitting in a Cambodian prison.

[random]

the PM has admitted he sent him to the area so why is there a need to dispute who he was actually calling? some things are as they seem gentlemen. As to whether he was told to go into cambodia is a different matter, the call could mean a few things:

1. he was told by the PM to enter Cambodia

2. Whilst on a call he was told to be careful to not enter cambodia to which he replies "Please tell Somkiat to inform the prime minister that we are already inside Cambodia. I planned to call the prime minister myself but it is okay now,"

3. He was sent to the border area and made his own decision to enter cambodia.

4. He was sent to the border area and made his own decision to enter cambodia whilst being egged on by his PAD cronies

5. He did it to try and escalate tensions with Cambodia, after all there is an election coming up and we all know how many votes a war can gain on the wave of patriotism, the Dems will need all the help they can get now evidence is starting to leak out about just who was responsible for what in downtown Bangkok.

However I imagine the conspiracy being thrown around on here that he was pretending to make a call to discredit the PM is the least likely, firstly how would he know he was being sent there by the PM, maybe he just saw his chance whilst there but I doubt that, also why would he risk arrest and imprisonment to frame the PM when he has no reason to, he is after all a Dem MP.

Anyway lets see how abhisit tries to spin it, he should be adept at sidestepping a few landmines now, he has had enough practice, however in this matter he can not rely on the thai judiciary turning a blind eye.

[termad]

We have second-hand words saying that Panich allegedly was talking to his aide to allegedly inform him to allegedly talk to Abhisit's aide in order to allegedly tell Abhisit.

Until something more definitive is reported on, it's nearly the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon in terms of Panich actually talking to Abhisit.

You're right Panich most probably wasn't even in Cambodia as the VDO simply shows somebody who looks incredibily like Panich allegedly talking talking to his secretary. The problem is who the hell is the man in gaol in Cambodia? And which PM was this lookalike trying to contact? Was it Abhisit or Hun Sen? I think it's all a CIA plot to discredit Osama Bin Laden.

I guess that's where you and I differ. You misread the Bangkok Post article by saying Abhisit ordered him into Cambodia when it didn't.

I point out where it hasn't been established yet as to who Panich was talking to or what was said and you fill in all the gaps on your own.

Duh. He was talking to his secretary who he's codenamed Q (I wonder why) who he asked to contact Somkiat (allegedly Abhisit's secretary) to tell Abhisit(allegedly PM)that he Panich was allegedly in Cambodia.

Edited January 4, 2011 by termad

[webfact]

Govt Spokesperson: Royal Thai Survey Dept to Determine if 7 Thais Encroached Cambodian Soil

Acting Government Spokesperson Panitan Wattanayagorn has revealed that the government has appointed the Royal Thai Survey Department to determine whether the seven Thai nationals arrested by Cambodian authorities were encroaching on Cambodian territory. He said it is unlikely that the seven will be released within the next couple of days. In the meantime, a lawyer will be appointed by the Thai government to help in the legal issue.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-04

[webfact]

THAI-KHMER TIES

Video clips not helping Thai defense : Suthep

By The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban admitted on Tuesday that Thailand is finding difficulties helping the seven Thai nationals charged with illegal entry into Cambodia.

The group including a Democrat MP Panich Vikitsreth were detained by Cambodian soldiers last Wednesday while they were on inspection tour of the border area near Sa Kaeo province adjacent to Cambodia's Banteay Meanchay.

Panich, Veera Somkwamkid, activist from Thailand Patriot Network, and five others were charged in a Phnom Penh Court with illegal entry and illegally entering a military base. The penalties of the crime are up to six months and one year. The Cambodian court has not yet set a date for their trial.

Suthep said the Thai authorities were coordinated to help the detained Thais but the video clip of Panich admitting that the group was entering Cambodian territory could cause a disadvantage in defending the case.

He said he would wait until after the long New Year holiday to see if there were any developments and reactions from the authorities in Phnom Penh.

He is now a member of a Joint House and Senate panel to examine the three meeting documents provided by the Thai-Cambodian Joint Boundary Commission (JBC) which is responsible for demarcating the shared border.

Meanwhile two video clips recorded during Mr Panich's trip to the border area were posted on YouTube, an Internet video-sharing website, on Sunday. Mr Panich was heard talking on a telephone and telling someone at the other end to inform Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva through Abhisit's secretary that they had crossed the border and were on Cambodian territory.

According to the footage, Panich was well aware that he was already on Cambodian soil. The recorded admission is believed to make it difficult to fight the case as Thailand initially planned the group's defence on the grounds that they strayed unintentionally into Cambodia.

-- The Nation 2011-01-04

[Credo]

So the PM sends him to the disputed area, he crosses into what he believes is Cambodian territory and he gets arrested.  He does his inspection without any military/police escort.  

Definitely not the brightest tools in the shed.  

Personally, it would appear that there was some intention on someone's part to stir up trouble.  

[geovalin]

Now, let's see how Hun Sen will react. He's probably furious: one more time, he thought he could built a good relation thanks to the new trust he has in Abisith and one more time Abisith betrayed him.

We can discuss and discuss again about what happens in Abisith's mind. It's something he has to solve with himself.

Back to Hun Sen: Of course he has wonderful cards in hands and he looks serene but he still can lose the game if he loses his temper.

He should wait! Right now Thais are sinking in their miserable ploys but if he answers angrily to the provocation, he'll be the "bad guy" again. Well, it's very difficult to remain calm in front of such crude scheme but he has to. If not, it's the war which PAD wishes.

The recent news: "Royal Thai Survey Dept to Determine if 7 Thais Encroached Cambodian Soil" could be seen as worrying...

[monkfish]

So why would the Prime Minister send yellow shirts to the border?

And why did they cross the border into Cambodia knowing full well taht they would be arrested?

Was is intended?

Thee only way out of this one is to claim the video is fake.

[Nisa]

Why would they enter Cambodia illegally when it is so easy for a Thai to enter Cambodia now. I doubt they would even have to wait in line given their positions. In fact, they now have border crossings for Cambodia/Thai where no passport needs to be shown and you just use a slip of paper.

I'm not asking because I doubt they were in Cambodia but I guess just a)wondering why and b)why they entered illegally

[tgeezer]

It's about time that all Thai's recognised and admitted that they deservedly lost the temple and some surrounding land because they invaded two peaceful neighbours (Cambodia and Laos) in 1942 after being equiped by the Japanese with weapons and fighter planes.

France was then under the Vichy government and the only French nationals present in Laos and Cambodia were some 10,000 farmers and other assorted civilians armed with shotguns and the like who obviously stood no chance against a large well equiped Thai army. In 1942 the Thais erected the Victory Monument in Bangkok to celebrate their glorious victory.

Unfortunately, for Thailand Japan was beaten and it was given 24 hours to get out of the seized areas by Mountbatten. Again, unfortunately for the Thailand the team that was appointed to draw the borders after the war were all French cartographers and yes they most probably did make a few sqiggles in the line that they drew as the Cambodian/Thai border (and who could blame them) so Thailand lost the Temple and land and also a few other small areas along the borders.

They have as much chance of getting the Temple back as the Germans have of getting back the German land that Poland took,the Polish land that Russia took or the Japanese islands that Russia took. It's also (I think) only a matter of time before Hun Sen has a cable car for tourists installed at the base of the cliff so he can then, if he wants to, close the Thai entrance to the Temple and the present Thai attitude will hasten that line of thought.,

.......And before all that when the French and British got the land in the first place? Indo China ; French and Malaysia; British. The Japanese campaign was against Western colonisation in favour of there own but reversed the compromises Thailand was forced to make to remain independant, which Mountbatten reversed once again, albeit temporarily after the defeat of Japan. Land borders are a bugger.

Is it a fact that this border defies logic? in that a natural geographical feature makes it unlikely that the temple was on the French side, if not then why would cable car access be needed ?

[phiphidon]

THAI-KHMER TIES

Video clips not helping Thai defense : Suthep

By The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban admitted on Tuesday that Thailand is finding difficulties helping the seven Thai nationals charged with illegal entry into Cambodia.

The group including a Democrat MP Panich Vikitsreth were detained by Cambodian soldiers last Wednesday while they were on inspection tour of the border area near Sa Kaeo province adjacent to Cambodia's Banteay Meanchay.

Panich, Veera Somkwamkid, activist from Thailand Patriot Network, and five others were charged in a Phnom Penh Court with illegal entry and illegally entering a military base. The penalties of the crime are up to six months and one year. The Cambodian court has not yet set a date for their trial.

Suthep said the Thai authorities were coordinated to help the detained Thais but the video clip of Panich admitting that the group was entering Cambodian territory could cause a disadvantage in defending the case.

He said he would wait until after the long New Year holiday to see if there were any developments and reactions from the authorities in Phnom Penh.

He is now a member of a Joint House and Senate panel to examine the three meeting documents provided by the Thai-Cambodian Joint Boundary Commission (JBC) which is responsible for demarcating the shared border.

Meanwhile two video clips recorded during Mr Panich's trip to the border area were posted on YouTube, an Internet video-sharing website, on Sunday. Mr Panich was heard talking on a telephone and telling someone at the other end to inform Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva through Abhisit's secretary that they had crossed the border and were on Cambodian territory.

According to the footage, Panich was well aware that he was already on Cambodian soil. The recorded admission is believed to make it difficult to fight the case as Thailand initially planned the group's defence on the grounds that they strayed unintentionally into Cambodia.

-- The Nation 2011-01-04

It seems strange that nobody wants to arrest the person who took the video this time - unless he has already been arrested (which at least one newspaper has suggested has happened, by the Cambodians though, not the Thais). Anyway Panich and co could always claim in their defence they were using Google Maps (http://abcnews.go.co...tory?id=9797440)

[Nisa]

So why would the Prime Minister send yellow shirts to the border?

And why did they cross the border into Cambodia knowing full well taht they would be arrested?

Was is intended?

Thee only way out of this one is to claim the video is fake.

Maybe I am naive on this subject but I am with you. I don't get it. Even if they were not near a border crossing I think they could have easily arrange, via a phone call, to let somebody in Cambodia know they wanted to take a walk in the Cambodia country side.

[Insight]

Looking forward to watching the full 4min clips released by Abhisit to see how they differ to the ones published on Sunday...

[Thailand]

Just when the Dems were looking fairly good for a election victory this happens,the PT should have a field day, and if Abhisit really was in the know then he really wants slapping down by the puppet masters(though probably that's where the orders came from).

Yet another Thai international debacle.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Thailand

[Buchholz]

So why would the Prime Minister send yellow shirts to the border?

And why did they cross the border into Cambodia knowing full well taht they would be arrested?

Was is intended?

Thee only way out of this one is to claim the video is fake.

He didn't send "yellow shirts" to the border.

All that has been reported was that he sent a Democrat MP who is a member of a Joint House and Senate panel to examine the three meeting documents provided by the Thai-Cambodian Joint Boundary Commission (JBC) which is responsible for demarcating the shared border to the border area.

Your two other questions are valid.

Your conclusion excludes several other possibilities.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Buchholz