Thai MP In Cambodia Court Over Border Incident

[webfact]

Thai MP in Cambodia court over border incident

PHNOM PENH, January 6, 2011 (AFP) - A Thai ruling party politician charged with illegally entering Cambodia told a court in the capital Phnom Penh Thursday that he had crossed the disputed border by accident, his lawyer said.

Panich Vikitsreth of the Democrat Party was taken from prison to Phnom Penh Municipal Court with six other Thais for a closed-door preliminary hearing in a case that has strained diplomatic ties between Cambodia and Thailand.

Panich told the court that he had "crossed into Cambodian territory unintentionally," his Cambodian attorney Ros Aun told AFP by telephone.

"He said he came (to the border area) because Thai people claimed it is their land. He said he was walking without knowing that he was entering Cambodian territory and was captured by the authorities."

The detainees, dressed in blue prison clothes, did not respond to questions from reporters as they were led into court for questioning. No trial date has yet been set.

The seven Thais were charged late last month with illegally crossing the border and entering a military area with ill will, despite a call from Thailand for their immediate release.

If convicted on both counts they face up to 18 months in prison.

Thai officials have acknowledged that the seven were on Cambodian territory when arrested.

Deputy Thai Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said Thursday Bangkok might seek a royal pardon for the seven if the court sentences them.

"I expect the court will deliberate the case based on the fact that Thais trespassed without ill-intention and with mercy to Thai nationals," he said.

"We want Cambodia to know that we are very worried, although we respect its judicial system and sovereignty. I am optimistic that the trial will be quick," he said.

The neighbours have long been at odds over their border, which is not fully demarcated, partly because it is littered with landmines left over from decades of war in Cambodia. There was a series of deadly border clashes in 2008.

But Cambodian foreign ministry spokesman Koy Kuong told AFP the case would "not affect diplomatic relations" with Thailand.

When asked about a possible pardon, he said: "The case is in the hands of the court. I cannot say anything now."

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-01-06

[Credo]

I find it interesting that the Thai government is already contemplating asking for a pardon for people who haven't gone through the court and haven't been convicted or sentenced.

[thailandbluegrass]

I find it interesting that the Thai government is already contemplating asking for a pardon for people who haven't gone through the court and haven't been convicted or sentenced.

We call it "Antcipating" or "foreseeing" the future. I'm sure if it was YOU going into a jail in a foriegn country you would hope your country would be doing the same for you no?

[Thai at Heart]

Panich told the court that he had "crossed into Cambodian territory unintentionally," his Cambodian attorney Ros Aun told AFP by telephone.

Wouldn't the fact that he apparently told someone on the phone that he was walking on Cambodian soil, make this statement perjury?

[Credo]

It would tend to look like perjury, but it may not be. Although I don't personally believe it, he could have strayed into Cambodian territory and at the time not realized it at the time.

I worked in Iraq and was involved in a project in the northern area very near the Iranian border. There are some look out towers in the area, but they didn't appear to be manned. We were driving along a dry creek bed and I said to the driver that it seemed on that I could see the back side of the tower. A creek bed which had always been in Iraq apparently had changed course. We were in Iran. We high tailed it out without any trouble, but it wouldn't have been easy to explain.

So, was it accidental. I don't think so, but it's a possibility. The bigger point is, was Veera's crossing accidental?

[Thai at Heart]

It would tend to look like perjury, but it may not be. Although I don't personally believe it, he could have strayed into Cambodian territory and at the time not realized it at the time.

I worked in Iraq and was involved in a project in the northern area very near the Iranian border. There are some look out towers in the area, but they didn't appear to be manned. We were driving along a dry creek bed and I said to the driver that it seemed on that I could see the back side of the tower. A creek bed which had always been in Iraq apparently had changed course. We were in Iran. We high tailed it out without any trouble, but it wouldn't have been easy to explain.

So, was it accidental. I don't think so, but it's a possibility. The bigger point is, was Veera's crossing accidental?

Well to put it in lawyer's speak. Can they prove it was accidental?

[Credo]

In this situation it is going to be very hard to prove it is accidental. But if it can be reasonably shown that there was no intention to cross the border, then the outcome may be much less severe.

I don't know that much about the Cambodian court system, but in many systems, you can never prove innocence; you can only determine guilt (thus the finding of guilty or not guilty).

[monkfish]

If the legal system is similar to Thailand would it not be quicker and better to plead guilty?

Quick court case probably suspended sentence.

[whybother]

Panich told the court that he had "crossed into Cambodian territory unintentionally," his Cambodian attorney Ros Aun told AFP by telephone.

Wouldn't the fact that he apparently told someone on the phone that he was walking on Cambodian soil, make this statement perjury?

He crossed unintentionally. When he realised, he told someone on the phone.

(on the mobile so can't do any emoticons)

[Credo]

Unless they have mitigating circumstances to back up a claim of an accidental crossing, they are better off to plead guilty, or so it would seem. I think their attorneys are better off at helping them on this issue, however.

The difficulty is that this is going to get mixed up with politics. You have and MP and you have a yellow shirt who has already crossed illegally. Then you have Kasit who went to plead their case.

Each person may have some unique characteristics to their case.

It will be interesting to watch how this plays out. A rather delicate situation, I would say.

[Bagwan]

If the accused knew that he was trespassing why didn't he retrace his steps? Hopefully being an MP won't save him from getting his just deserts.

Does anybody believe that if a Brit tries this caper on that the UK Government would give it a moments thought? I hope that Abhisit et al leave him to his own devices.

[hanuman1]

Sounds like the Yellow Shirts are saying that they are guilty, but not intentionally.

That means they will be sentenced for there crime. Even the Thai government accepts this, hoping for a Royal Pardon.

So the question is, how likely is it that the Cambodian justice system can be overruled by 'outside' (by that I still mean domestic) forces. It could either be via the Cambodian royalty, or more underhandedly Hun Sen, but then Hun Sen still has recent links with Thaksin.

The less renegade idiots among government ranks the better.

I'm just enjoying the show.

[monkfish]

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

[mkawish]

I think you are totally misstating the yellowshirts' statement and intention.

The yellowshirts are and have been saying and proving that the 7 were on Thai soil when Camb soldiers encroaching on Thai soil to arrest Thai citizen.

Not to fault you but did your gf or wife translate the yellowshirts' statement to you erroneously, perhaps?

Sounds like the Yellow Shirts are saying that they are guilty, but not intentionally.

That means they will be sentenced for there crime. Even the Thai government accepts this, hoping for a Royal Pardon.

So the question is, how likely is it that the Cambodian justice system can be overruled by 'outside' (by that I still mean domestic) forces. It could either be via the Cambodian royalty, or more underhandedly Hun Sen, but then Hun Sen still has recent links with Thaksin.

The less renegade idiots among government ranks the better.

I'm just enjoying the show.

[mkawish]

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

monkfish, You are the winner!

The yellowshirts are meeting en mass on January 25, 2011 to demand that Apisit's govt:

1--To withdraw from any participation in JBC to redefine Thailand territory to enrich the Camb.

2--To denounce and rescind any and all joint effort between Thailand and Camb in reference to PraVeHarn temple project and committee

3--To vacate and nullify MOU and all related matters on grounds that Camb repeatedly failed to follow the intents of the MOU by repeatedly encroaching intentionally into Thai territory and sovereignty culminating in illegally arresting the 7 Thai citizen on Thai territory; therefore,

To null and void MOU in view that it was also unconstitutionally drafted and negotiated without first receiving rectification and approval from the full House members. The MOU in question was concocted and negotiated by some ill informed and ill intended govt officials without first seeking and receiving rectification and approval of the House. Therefore, the MOU and all its subsequent agreements are therefore null and void, in view that the Thai Constitution demands that any agreement between and among nations involving Thailand must first seek rectification and approval from the House, which the MOU between Thailand and Camb ignored and failed to comply, among others.

If the PM Apisit and his govt fail to protect Thailand territorial and her interest, or

to choose to do nothing to protect Thailand's interest et all,

then per Apisit's own proclamation last month that as a premiere if he fails to protect Thailand and her interests,

then he would be a traitor and would have no place in Thailand....

the yellowshirts are now demanding that if he fails to protect Thailand territory and interest, then Apisit should honor his own words quickly....

[Scott]

It will be interesting to see the defense for the alleged intrusion by the MP and also for Veera. They may be different.

Politicians want to make their mark on a situation, but usually don't want to get into a serious mess. Veera's motivation may be quite different.

I hope this is covered rather comprehensively in the press.

[mca]

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

monkfish, You are the winner!

The yellowshirts are meeting en mass on January 25, 2011 to demand that Apisit's govt:

1--To withdraw from any participation in JBC to redefine Thailand territory to enrich the Camb.

2--To denounce and rescind any and all joint effort between Thailand and Camb in reference to PraVeHarn temple project and committee

3--To vacate and nullify MOU and all related matters on grounds that Camb repeatedly failed to follow the intents of the MOU by repeatedly encroaching intentionally into Thai territory and sovereignty culminating in illegally arresting the 7 Thai citizen on Thai territory; therefore,

To null and void MOU in view that it was also unconstitutionally drafted and negotiated without first receiving rectification and approval from the full House members. The MOU in question was concocted and negotiated by some ill informed and ill intended govt officials without first seeking and receiving rectification and approval of the House. Therefore, the MOU and all its subsequent agreements are therefore null and void, in view that the Thai Constitution demands that any agreement between and among nations involving Thailand must first seek rectification and approval from the House, which the MOU between Thailand and Camb ignored and failed to comply, among others.

If the PM Apisit and his govt fail to protect Thailand territorial and her interest, or

to choose to do nothing to protect Thailand's interest et all,

then per Apisit's own proclamation last month that as a premiere if he fails to protect Thailand and her interests,

then he would be a traitor and would have no place in Thailand....

the yellowshirts are now demanding that if he fails to protect Thailand territory and interest, then Apisit should honor his own words quickly....

The Alice In Wonderland aspect being that the PM's Foreign Minister joined the PAD rally back in the day.

[Valentine]

The Alice In Wonderland aspect being that the PM's Foreign Minister joined the PAD rally back in the day.

He must have been told to keep his hands off this one after originally stating it could affect bilateral ties.

AS for the 7 I don't believe ignorance is a valis excuse in a court of law & besides Veera had been caught trespassing previously & Panich has been quoted as saying he was in Cambodia during a telephone call. I don't think this was done out of pure nationalism or trying to protect Thai rights over the land as there are ongoing official negotiations. There must be some other motive such as PAD trying to regain their lost leverage over the government. Panich should be expelled from the Dems as he has severely embarassed them & surely could not have been acting on orders from the PM as some are trying to portray.

[webfact]

BORDER DISPUTES

No bail for 7 Thais jailed in Phnom Penh

By The Nation, Agencies

Drawn-out taking of testimony leaves lawyers no time to file requests; Panich claims unintentional crossing as Veera remains defiant over charges

Seven Thai nationals who faced trail in Cambodian court for trespassing were in critical situation yesterday as their prosecution would drag on with no time to submit bail request, resulting in longer stay in Prey Sar prison.

The seven Thais including the ruling Democrat Party's lawmaker Panich Vikitsreth and yellow shirted activist Veera Somkwamkid appeared in the Phnom Penh Municipal Court in blue prisoner dresses.

They testified in the closed door court room one by one, beginning with Panich who told the court that he crossed to the disputed border area by accident.

Panich told the court that he had "crossed into Cambodian territory unintentionally," his Cambodian attorney Ros Aun told AFP by telephone.

"He said he came (to the border area) because Thai people claimed it is their land. He said he was walking without knowing that he was entering Cambodian territory and was captured by the authorities."

Veera, who was previously arrested in the same location in August, told reporters briefly as leaving the court that "they are forcing us to accept the accusation."

Panich, Veera and other yellow shirted activists who claimed they are patriotic group were arrested last week in the border near Sa Kaeo's Ban Nong Chan while inspecting the disputed area. A leaked video clip indicated that Panich and the group were aware of entering into Cambodia side as he phoned to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's aide to convey his message.

The Royal Thai Survey Department indicated that the group went 55 meters deeper into the territory under sovereignty of Cambodia before the capture.

The Thai government failed to settle the case outside the court room since Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen reportedly was furious with Veera's second trespassing.

They were charge of illegal entry and unlawful entering to military areas, the charges with combined 18 month jail term.

The Thai foreign ministry said it would allow the Cambodian court to continue without intervention but urged Phnom Penh to speed up the process and hand them only lenient punishment.

The court spent the whole yesterday for the testimony of seven detainees and it set no time line when the entire trail would be completed.

Their lawyer had no time to submit bail request yesterday and would not until Monday as Friday is Cambodia's public holiday. The court has five days to consider the bail request, said Thai Foreign Ministry's spokesman Thani Thongpakdi. "We expect to know whether they would get free on bail by January 14," he said.

Prime Minister Abhisit called a meeting with many concern ministers and officials including Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, Justice Minister Pirapan Salirathavibhaga, Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya and Kasit's secretary Chavanond Intarakomalyasut to discuss the situation of the seven Thai people in Cambodian court.

Chavanond told reporters after the meeting that Prime Minister Abhisit did not have any more instruction but wrapped up the situation and expected the group would have to stay longer in the Cambodian prison.

-- The Nation 2011-01-07

[mkawish]

The Alice In Wonderland aspect being that the PM's Foreign Minister joined the PAD rally back in the day.

He must have been told to keep his hands off this one after originally stating it could affect bilateral ties.

AS for the 7 I don't believe ignorance is a valis excuse in a court of law & besides Veera had been caught trespassing previously & Panich has been quoted as saying he was in Cambodia during a telephone call. I don't think this was done out of pure nationalism or trying to protect Thai rights over the land as there are ongoing official negotiations. There must be some other motive such as PAD trying to regain their lost leverage over the government. Panich should be expelled from the Dems as he has severely embarassed them & surely could not have been acting on orders from the PM as some are trying to portray.

Valentine

The PM Apisit himself admitted during day before yesterday's nationally televised interview that he was aware of Panich fact finding excursion and he was personally informed and approved that trip to find factual info to use to rebut the yellowshirts' upcoming demonstration on January 25, 2011.

The mess ensured thereafter.

[mkawish]

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

monkfish, You are the winner!

The yellowshirts are meeting en mass on January 25, 2011 to demand that Apisit's govt:

1--To withdraw from any participation in JBC to redefine Thailand territory to enrich the Camb.

2--To denounce and rescind any and all joint effort between Thailand and Camb in reference to PraVeHarn temple project and committee

3--To vacate and nullify MOU and all related matters on grounds that Camb repeatedly failed to follow the intents of the MOU by repeatedly encroaching intentionally into Thai territory and sovereignty culminating in illegally arresting the 7 Thai citizen on Thai territory; therefore,

To null and void MOU in view that it was also unconstitutionally drafted and negotiated without first receiving rectification and approval from the full House members. The MOU in question was concocted and negotiated by some ill informed and ill intended govt officials without first seeking and receiving rectification and approval of the House. Therefore, the MOU and all its subsequent agreements are therefore null and void, in view that the Thai Constitution demands that any agreement between and among nations involving Thailand must first seek rectification and approval from the House, which the MOU between Thailand and Camb ignored and failed to comply, among others.

If the PM Apisit and his govt fail to protect Thailand territorial and her interest, or

to choose to do nothing to protect Thailand's interest et all,

then per Apisit's own proclamation last month that as a premiere if he fails to protect Thailand and her interests,

then he would be a traitor and would have no place in Thailand....

the yellowshirts are now demanding that if he fails to protect Thailand territory and interest,

Addition:

particularly the illegal arresting of the 7 Thai citizen including one Apisit's own childhood friend and also a democratic MP, on Thai territory and which Apisit's own deputy and a defence minister mistakenly presumed that....

that piece of land which the human rights committee members requested Thai govt some thirty years ago to allow, for humanitarian reasons if nothing else, the inflowing Camb refugees fleeing the onslaught of red communist Cambodian brothers and sisters; to settle temporarily therein until they could safely return to their homeland....

And now in 2011, these temporary refugees and the Camb got are boldly claiming that.... that parcel of land belongs to Camb....

Many current Thai govt officials and representatives, such as Thai police, military and MPs, too young to remember Thailand on the side of giving, giving and more giving days, some thirty years back then;

nowadays, fallaciously assume and presume that because the Camb refugees were allowed to settle there by request of Humanitarian organization and red cross society for about 30 yrs, then the land where they were allowed to settle.... must belong to them legally....!

Some of these high ranking govt officers and representatives went so far as to, during the nationwide telecast, questioning and denouncing the authenticity of the ChaNote (Warranty Deed) issued by Thai govt some thirty years ago to the very farmers whose farmlands were used for the settlement of these Camb refugees; they as a group even questioned those Thai farmers intentions and motives as to why they would want to claim something that did not really belong to them but did belong to the pitiful Camb refugees....

The ongoing saga that day was beyond imagination, particularly for those farangs who have been here and been observing all the unfoldings as a third uninterested party, as to.... how could all these high position and high ranking Thai govt representatives said and acted in such a contradictory manners and fashions to the very interest of their own poor farmers who could not even farm their own rightfully inherited lands but also required to pay yearly taxes on those parcels of land also, to this end they also have the tax revenue receipts to prove....

my beloved Thailand, I am afraid thy own officers are selling out.... for whatever reasons.... and the enemy is truly within Thailand and are none other than the Thai themselves.... seeking to enrich their own and/or their friends' and relatives' coffers.... all at the same time....

all stated in my humble observation and opinion.... intending, hopefully, to help Thailand to wake up and take some constructive actions for the sake of the future Thai generations.... who stand to profit immensely.... if only their fathers would face up to the facts.... and mobilize their concerted efforts....

[mca]

The Thai foreign ministry said it would allow the Cambodian court to continue without intervention

It would " allow" them?

[whybother]

The Alice In Wonderland aspect being that the PM's Foreign Minister joined the PAD rally back in the day.

He must have been told to keep his hands off this one after originally stating it could affect bilateral ties.

AS for the 7 I don't believe ignorance is a valis excuse in a court of law & besides Veera had been caught trespassing previously & Panich has been quoted as saying he was in Cambodia during a telephone call. I don't think this was done out of pure nationalism or trying to protect Thai rights over the land as there are ongoing official negotiations. There must be some other motive such as PAD trying to regain their lost leverage over the government. Panich should be expelled from the Dems as he has severely embarassed them & surely could not have been acting on orders from the PM as some are trying to portray.

Valentine

The PM Apisit himself admitted during day before yesterday's nationally televised interview that he was aware of Panich fact finding excursion and he was personally informed and approved that trip to find factual info to use to rebut the yellowshirts' upcoming demonstration on January 25, 2011.

The mess ensured thereafter.

Did the PM tell them to go onto Cambodian territory and get arrested?

[mca]

Veera, who was previously arrested in the same location in August, told reporters briefly as leaving the court that "they are forcing us to accept the accusation."

I've got an image of Panich back in the cells hissing to Veera " Keep your big gob shut you ignorant <deleted> and lets get out of here asap"

[Valentine]

The Alice In Wonderland aspect being that the PM's Foreign Minister joined the PAD rally back in the day.

He must have been told to keep his hands off this one after originally stating it could affect bilateral ties.

AS for the 7 I don't believe ignorance is a valid excuse in a court of law & besides Veera had been caught trespassing previously & Panich has been quoted as saying he was in Cambodia during a telephone call. I don't think this was done out of pure nationalism or trying to protect Thai rights over the land as there are ongoing official negotiations. There must be some other motive such as PAD trying to regain their lost leverage over the government. Panich should be expelled from the Dems as he has severely embarassed them & surely could not have been acting on orders from the PM as some are trying to portray.

Valentine

The PM Apisit himself admitted during day before yesterday's nationally televised interview that he was aware of Panich fact finding excursion and he was personally informed and approved that trip to find factual info to use to rebut the yellowshirts' upcoming demonstration on January 25, 2011.

The mess ensured thereafter.

I should be a bit more clear. I am sure the PM would not have officially approved for Panich to enter Cambodian territory illegally.

[mkawish]

The Alice In Wonderland aspect being that the PM's Foreign Minister joined the PAD rally back in the day.

He must have been told to keep his hands off this one after originally stating it could affect bilateral ties.

AS for the 7 I don't believe ignorance is a valid excuse in a court of law & besides Veera had been caught trespassing previously & Panich has been quoted as saying he was in Cambodia during a telephone call. I don't think this was done out of pure nationalism or trying to protect Thai rights over the land as there are ongoing official negotiations. There must be some other motive such as PAD trying to regain their lost leverage over the government. Panich should be expelled from the Dems as he has severely embarassed them & surely could not have been acting on orders from the PM as some are trying to portray.

Valentine

The PM Apisit himself admitted during day before yesterday's nationally televised interview that he was aware of Panich fact finding excursion and he was personally informed and approved that trip to find factual info to use to rebut the yellowshirts' upcoming demonstration on January 25, 2011.

The mess ensured thereafter.

I should be a bit more clear. I am sure the PM would not have officially approved for Panich to enter Cambodian territory illegally.

The 7 were arrested on Thai farmland where the Thai farmers have been holding Warranty Deed issued by Thai govt some 50 years ago and been paying annual revenue taxes every year which were properly receipted--even though their farmlands were occupied and used by the Camb refugee for the past 20 some years.... bless their hearts.

The farmers vouched that the 7 were arrested and dragged into Camb territory by gun point.... from their warranty deeded farmland....

However, several high ranking Thai officials still insisted that the 7 were arrested in the Camb camp area....

With all human instinct and nature, if and/or when my farang friend is arrested for any reason, I would definitely want to talk to my friend first before making any incriminating statement to encumber my friend....

But these Thai officers including the MP, SooThep who is incidentally also holding the position as the Minister of Thailand Security, came out right after the arrest of the 7, making a public statement that the group was misled by VeeRa into encroaching into Camb territory.... and that the Thai must respect Camb laws.... imagine that, if you can....

As many of we farang already know that the yellowshirts are on the march again on January 25, 2011.... originally the yellowshirts just wanted the PM Apisit to denounce the MOU.... because the yellowshirts claimed that the Camb has been violating the MOU consistently and intentionally by repeatedly invading into Thai territory along several areas alongside Thai northeastern border....

The PM Apisit was briefed by all his corresponding military and foreign affair ministers that the yellowshirts are just out to cause trouble.... the land and border have been held in check by Thai military and border police everyday.... the Camb are operating from their own Camb territory et al....

I would imagine the poor Apisit was at a loss, did not know whether or whom to trust.....

Thus was one of the reasons that Apisit approved his PM and also a personal friend, to go on spot for the fact finding mission....

From what I see, know and investigate.... and from the info provided by the villagers walking behind the 7, it goes beyond any reasonable doubt that the Camb came over the Thai soil to arrest and at gun point dragged the 7 across back to the Camb territory--claiming the 7 were encroaching.... forgetting that there were others behind the 7....

It also appeared that the 4+ minutes video tape which the Camb confiscated from the group and subsequently was posted on YouTube to reinforced Camb position that the 7 did indeed encroach on Camb soil thus were arrested--showed on youtube lasted only a minute or so.... leaving out the unanswered 3 minutes or so.... which according again to the lady who were lagging behind the group and was not arrested.... she claimed that the 7 was dragged at gun point to Camb territory....

Who would most of us farang rather believe.... the Thai ministers.... or the lowly farmers who were there in person and witnessed all the happenings....?

Edited January 7, 2011 by mkawish

[Siam Simon]

1) Sh1t! I'm on the wrong side of the border! better hottail it back to my own country before I get into trouble.

2) Oh, look these border-disputing PAD activists I've spent the day with have just led me over the border into Cambodia. What to do next? I know, I'll 'phone a friend.

[hanuman1]

I think you are totally misstating the yellowshirts' statement and intention.

The yellowshirts are and have been saying and proving that the 7 were on Thai soil when Camb soldiers encroaching on Thai soil to arrest Thai citizen.

Not to fault you but did your gf or wife translate the yellowshirts' statement to you erroneously, perhaps?

Sounds like the Yellow Shirts are saying that they are guilty, but not intentionally.

That means they will be sentenced for there crime. Even the Thai government accepts this, hoping for a Royal Pardon.

So the question is, how likely is it that the Cambodian justice system can be overruled by 'outside' (by that I still mean domestic) forces. It could either be via the Cambodian royalty, or more underhandedly Hun Sen, but then Hun Sen still has recent links with Thaksin.

The less renegade idiots among government ranks the better.

I'm just enjoying the show.

Sorry, when I said 'yellow shirts' I was referring to the 7, who may not all be paid up yellow shirt members but are all at the very least sympathetic to their cause.

Panich told the court that he had "crossed into Cambodian territory unintentionally," his Cambodian attorney Ros Aun told AFP by telephone.

Personally, I find the whole thing very amusing and hope the Cambodians deliver justice appropriately and prosecute them to the full extent of the law. Not because they are Thai or because one of them's from the governing party, but because they are idiots who broke the law.

Edited January 7, 2011 by hanuman1

[geriatrickid]

In this situation it is going to be very hard to prove it is accidental. But if it can be reasonably shown that there was no intention to cross the border, then the outcome may be much less severe.

I don't know that much about the Cambodian court system, but in many systems, you can never prove innocence; you can only determine guilt (thus the finding of guilty or not guilty).

If I am not mistaken, one must prove that one is not guilty. It is a carryover from the old French system. (I'm not saying that's the definitive truth, and I'm open to correction.) It is only under the Common Law system, a gift from the English, where one is presumed innocent. (And who said the English weren't good for anythng. )

[mca]

(And who said the English weren't good for anythng. )

Some ignorant <deleted>.