Brutalities Of Philippine Airlines, Rediculous Policy

[bangkokcitylimits]

Today my close friend planned to come spend few holidays in Bangkok, but Philippine Airlines refused her to go.

She's a very hardworking, professional Pinay, earns 40.000 peso a month managing her boss' medical intake-office in Dubai. Spending her holidays in Manila and got a present from her boss a ticket to Bangkok for a 4 days trip.

We all know how very tough there they can be allowing people to fly, so she brought as much docs as she could. Her contract, bank slips, confirmed ticked back to Dubai next week & work permit for Dubai (!). I provided some docs too to prove that she has relatives here, copy passport, copy house rental doc, phone bill, bankbook etc.

But Philippine Airlines did not let her go because... she could not show a Bangkok hotel reservation... Well, when having relatives in Thailand perhaps someone does NOT NEED a hotel ? The docs showed that she is not some unknown gold digger who illegally want to enter and stay in Thailand, she had enough and cards money in the pocket, a confirmed return flight. Bangkok Immigration would not have made any problem, the problem is just that retarded Phil company with their ridiculous mentality. It even makes them earn money because my friend (her boss) simply lost the ticket and they just sell it to someone else.

-

Few months ago I was in Cebu spend few weeks with my girlfriend (not this lady), the same company did not want to issue the boarding pass for my return flight to Bangkok. <deleted> ??? 'because I had no exit flight from Thailand' HUH ???? But I LIVE in Thailand for over 10 years. 'Then can you show a residency permit ?' HUH ? That people amazed me... 'I AM NOT a resident I just live in Thailand on whatever visa' (my ED visa just ended so went for the 30 days again) After 45 minutes talking and talking and talking with the robot her superior who was also a robot I finally got my boarding pass after signing a 'Declaration and Release' form so they are not responsible in case I was not allowed to enter Thailand because I had no 'exit flight' (of course also I could have left Thailand by bus, or by boat, by foot or even swimming)

On arrival in Bangkok I got my 30 free days within 30 seconds and with a smile, no doubts about Bangkok. I was so glad to 'be home' away from that shtihole, back to the country that is also not mine but more or less it is, where I know my place, my rights, where I know how things work, where usually you get what you want or need. No more Philippines for me, no thanks !!! (after 4 times I already disliked that poor muddy shtihole very much for all it's inconveniences and hotel rip-offs)

Thailand is not that bad at all really ! (just Philippine girls are way better and it's a great place to take (weird) photo's, so I might go back there some day though)

Edited January 8, 2011 by bangkokcitylimits

[Crossy]

Whilst I cannot agree with the way that Philippines treat their own when it comes to exiting the country they WERE correct in their action quoted below:-

Few months ago I was in Cebu spend few weeks with my girlfriend (not this lady), the same company did not want to issue the boarding pass for my return flight to Bangkok. <deleted> ??? 'because I had no exit flight from Thailand' HUH ???? But I LIVE in Thailand for over 10 years. 'Then can you show a residency permit ?' HUH ? That people amazed me... 'I AM NOT a resident I just live in Thailand on whatever visa' (my ED visa just ended so went for the 30 days again) After 45 minutes talking and talking and talking with the robot her superior who was also a robot I finally got my boarding pass after signing a 'Declaration and Release' form so they are not responsible in case I was not allowed to enter Thailand because I had no 'exit flight' (of course also I could have left Thailand by bus, or by boat, by foot or even swimming)

It is an absolute requirement of Thai immigration that you need an outgoing air ticket within 30 days in order to obtain a 30 day visa exemption, you were lucky to be finally allowed to board. Airlines check this because they are liable to a fine should they carry someone who is then denied entry to Thailand.

[bangkokcitylimits]

Whilst I cannot agree with the way that Philippines treat their own when it comes to exiting the country they WERE correct in their action quoted below:-

Few months ago I was in Cebu spend few weeks with my girlfriend (not this lady), the same company did not want to issue the boarding pass for my return flight to Bangkok. <deleted> ??? 'because I had no exit flight from Thailand' HUH ???? But I LIVE in Thailand for over 10 years. 'Then can you show a residency permit ?' HUH ? That people amazed me... 'I AM NOT a resident I just live in Thailand on whatever visa' (my ED visa just ended so went for the 30 days again) After 45 minutes talking and talking and talking with the robot her superior who was also a robot I finally got my boarding pass after signing a 'Declaration and Release' form so they are not responsible in case I was not allowed to enter Thailand because I had no 'exit flight' (of course also I could have left Thailand by bus, or by boat, by foot or even swimming)

It is an absolute requirement of Thai immigration that you need an outgoing air ticket within 30 days in order to obtain a 30 day visa exemption, you were lucky to be finally allowed to board. Airlines check this because they are liable to a fine should they carry someone who is then denied entry to Thailand.

I entered Thailand hundreds of times without outgoing air ticket, and often without any money in my pocket. I flew in from various coutries without any trouble, it's just Phil airliners who implements the rules like this, it makes no sense at all. Even Cebu Pacific has stupid rules that they only know. The friend she did have an outgoing air ticket but you see, they just want bring the people in trouble by taking the role of immigration officers.

This is just third world stupidity plain and simple.

Edited January 8, 2011 by bangkokcitylimits

[chuang]

Should slip them a couple of $$$ notes...

[jaideeguy]

Yeah, Philippine Airlines forced me once to buy a one way return ticket on the spot at an outrageous price.......luckily there is competition now, but do they impose the strict rules as well??

And Crossy......I am on a non imm O visa and will be traveling to phil this year [on another airline]......will I need an exit ticket out of Thailand being married to a Thai and on a 'supporting thai national visa' ??

Whilst I cannot agree with the way that Philippines treat their own when it comes to exiting the country they WERE correct in their action quoted below:-

Few months ago I was in Cebu spend few weeks with my girlfriend (not this lady), the same company did not want to issue the boarding pass for my return flight to Bangkok. <deleted> ??? 'because I had no exit flight from Thailand' HUH ???? But I LIVE in Thailand for over 10 years. 'Then can you show a residency permit ?' HUH ? That people amazed me... 'I AM NOT a resident I just live in Thailand on whatever visa' (my ED visa just ended so went for the 30 days again) After 45 minutes talking and talking and talking with the robot her superior who was also a robot I finally got my boarding pass after signing a 'Declaration and Release' form so they are not responsible in case I was not allowed to enter Thailand because I had no 'exit flight' (of course also I could have left Thailand by bus, or by boat, by foot or even swimming)

It is an absolute requirement of Thai immigration that you need an outgoing air ticket within 30 days in order to obtain a 30 day visa exemption, you were lucky to be finally allowed to board. Airlines check this because they are liable to a fine should they carry someone who is then denied entry to Thailand.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Whilst I cannot agree with the way that Philippines treat their own when it comes to exiting the country they WERE correct in their action quoted below:-

Few months ago I was in Cebu spend few weeks with my girlfriend (not this lady), the same company did not want to issue the boarding pass for my return flight to Bangkok. <deleted> ??? 'because I had no exit flight from Thailand' HUH ???? But I LIVE in Thailand for over 10 years. 'Then can you show a residency permit ?' HUH ? That people amazed me... 'I AM NOT a resident I just live in Thailand on whatever visa' (my ED visa just ended so went for the 30 days again) After 45 minutes talking and talking and talking with the robot her superior who was also a robot I finally got my boarding pass after signing a 'Declaration and Release' form so they are not responsible in case I was not allowed to enter Thailand because I had no 'exit flight' (of course also I could have left Thailand by bus, or by boat, by foot or even swimming)

It is an absolute requirement of Thai immigration that you need an outgoing air ticket within 30 days in order to obtain a 30 day visa exemption, you were lucky to be finally allowed to board. Airlines check this because they are liable to a fine should they carry someone who is then denied entry to Thailand.

I entered Thailand hundreds of times without outgoing air ticket, and often without any money in my pocket. I flew in from various coutries without any trouble, it's just Phil airliners who implements the rules like this, it makes no sense at all. Even Cebu Pacific has stupid rules that they only know. The friend she did have an outgoing air ticket but you see, they just want bring the people in trouble by taking the role of immigration officers.

This is just third world stupidity plain and simple.

This past 1 October I was checking in at Portland, Oregon for my United flight back to Bangkok and had to prove that I either had an ongoing flight w/in 30 days or a Thai visa. My last Thai visa was a couple of passports ago so I showed them the "Re-Entry Permit" in the passport. Oops, note, please, it doesn't say anything about Thailand on it. Luckily I'd gone to Lao a couple of times earlier in the year and was able to show the United Airlines folks the entry stamps right close to the Re-Entry permit. They finally relented and gave me the boarding passes.

Perhaps it'd be good if the Thai Re-Entry Permit did have something on it about being issued by Thai Immigration....

Mac

[Crossy]

And Crossy......I am on a non imm O visa and will be traveling to phil this year [on another airline]......will I need an exit ticket out of Thailand being married to a Thai and on a 'supporting thai national visa' ??

With your non-imm visa you should be OK, it may still need a talk to a supervisor depending upon how well trained the check-in staff are.

[Crossy]

Perhaps it'd be good if the Thai Re-Entry Permit did have something on it about being issued by Thai Immigration....

My last one from Pathum Thani says Immigration Thailand at the top

[bangkokcitylimits]

A case of a bureaucrat taking on authority he does NOT have. They do it all the time here. Bureaucrats here know that they can make your life hell if they want to. By delaying a person at the airport, they can cause them to miss their fligh...t and mess up their entire trip. Often, I think they are just looking for a little extra spending money.

I would like to know where that is written in their job description. It isn't. Truthfully, the officers should confine their activities to checking paperwork to ensure that everything is in order. If they do anything beyond that, they are overstepping their bounds. There is NO way they can anticipate why another country might decline entry to a Philippine citizen...nor should they try. It isn't their job.

[Sophon]

But I have to say the rule is not a Philippine's airline rule....it is a requirement of IATA (International Air Travel Authority) regulations, which all airlines must follow.

It's not a IATA rule it's a Thai Immigration rule. IATA just have a register of what the immigration requirements are of the different countries.

Sophon

[bangkokcitylimits]

But I have to say the rule is not a Philippine's airline rule....it is a requirement of IATA (International Air Travel Authority) regulations, which all airlines must follow.

It's not a IATA rule it's a Thai Immigration rule. IATA just have a register of what the immigration requirements are of the different countries.

Sophon

It is not Thai Immigration practice to refuse people who have valid documents, people get inside and get 30 days with nothing but a passport !

[PattayaParent]

And Crossy......I am on a non imm O visa and will be traveling to phil this year [on another airline]......will I need an exit ticket out of Thailand being married to a Thai and on a 'supporting thai national visa' ??

With your non-imm visa you should be OK, it may still need a talk to a supervisor depending upon how well trained the check-in staff are.

I think this is the crux of the matter.

After travelling for many years to Ha Noi and back with my VN wife with us both having non 'O' visas for Thailand we had a problem this time and I put it down to an inexperienced Vietnam Airlines check-iner.

We're travelling on the return half of a BKK-HAN-BKK ticket and she asks 'how long will you be staying in Bangkok' OK maybe my flippant answer of 20 or 30 year confused her but I clarified that we live there and had to show her the visa page as she had no idea what a Thai visa looked like.

Then it was finding fault with my wife's name being different on the passport than on the ticket, it isn't I just leave out the middle classifier word when booking. So I had to point out that it is the same passport and ticket we travelled FROM Bangkok with, and that if she care to check the airline records and the passport she'd find the same name on the bookings.

It got sorted by a supervisor when I said loudly 'I've never had this problem with Air Asia'

[Sophon]

But I have to say the rule is not a Philippine's airline rule....it is a requirement of IATA (International Air Travel Authority) regulations, which all airlines must follow.

It's not a IATA rule it's a Thai Immigration rule. IATA just have a register of what the immigration requirements are of the different countries.

Sophon

It is not Thai Immigration practice to refuse people who have valid documents, people get inside and get 30 days with nothing but a passport !

And I never said it was. The rules for entering Thailand is set by the Thai Immigration authorities, and they basically say that you need a visa to be allowed to travel to Thailand. As an exception to this general rule Thailand have introduced a visa exemption scheme for citizens of certain countries, which will give you a 30 day permission to stay in Thailand (15 if entering by land). But a pre-requisite to qalify for entry under the visa exemtion scheme is that you have a confirmed ticket out of Thailand within those 30 days, if you do not have that you do not qualify for the visa exemption and need a visa.

And yes, generally the immigration officers do not check if you have a ticket out of Thailand (but they do on rare occasions), because they expect the airline carrying you to Thailand to police this requirement for them. The airlines are required to check if you qualify for entry into Thailand, and can be fined by the Thai Immigration Authorities and will also have to carry you back to were you came from, if you are refused entry into Thailand by Thai immigration. That is where the IATA database over immgration requirements (for all countries) comes in. It allows the airline employees to check if the passengers travel documents (passport, visa etc) meet what is required by the country he is travelling to. And for Thailand the database says this (I have chosen a UK citizen as an example):

National United Kingdom (Great Britain) (GB)

Destination Thailand (TH)

Thailand (TH)

Passport required.

- Passport and/or passport replacing documents must be valid

for at least 6 months upon arrival.

Visa required, except for A touristic stay of max. 30 days:

- for holders of British passports endorsed British

Citizen ;

- for holders of British passports endorsed British National

(Overseas)" issued in Hong Kong;

Additional Information:

- All passports must be in good condition.

- Those travelling to Thailand with a visa issued prior to

arrival, are permitted to travel on a one-way ticket.

- Immigration officers can request visitors who are visa

exempt to show return/onward tickets and documents required

for next destination.

- Visitors over 12 years of age must hold sufficient funds to

cover their stay (at least THB 10,000.- per person or THB

20,000.- per family). For details, click here

- For those who do not require a visaFor details, click here

Warning:

- Non-compliance with visa and /or entry requirements will

result in:

- refusal and immediate deportation of the passenger; and

- fines for the airline of THB 20,000.-; and

- overstay fine for the passenger of THB 500.- per day (but

not exceeding in total THB 20,000.-).

All I said was that the information the airline employee see in the IATA database is the requirements set by the Thai Immigration authorities (whether they choose to enforce them or not) - not by IATA.

Sophon

[harrry]

Not sure if Crossy or others read the first post. Nowhere does it say the reason was lack of a return ticket. The refusal was as he did not have a confirmed hotel reservation

[Sophon]

Not sure if Crossy or others read the first post. Nowhere does it say the reason was lack of a return ticket. The refusal was as he did not have a confirmed hotel reservation

There are two separate incidents mentioned in the OP, one is about a Phillipine lady not having a hotel reservation the other is about the OP himself not having a ticket out of Thailand.

Sophon

[bangkokcitylimits]

Not sure if Crossy or others read the first post. Nowhere does it say the reason was lack of a return ticket. The refusal was as he did not have a confirmed hotel reservation

There are two separate incidents mentioned in the OP, one is about a Phillipine lady not having a hotel reservation the other is about the OP himself not having a ticket out of Thailand.

Sophon

It was mainly about the friend her story, my story is just a recall from few months ago, not really relevant.

In the meanwhile it is clear PAL did not have the right to do this, they made a big mistake and she got her ticked and costs refunded. She could have a lawyer sue PAL and win the case easy, but she not want spend more time on this.

[tropo]

Thanks for the heads up.

I've never used Philippine Airlines but hearing how fanatical they are about every detail I won't use them in the future.

I've never had any issues with Cebu Pacific or Thai Airways between Bangkok and Manila.

Unrelated, but illustrates how bad their customer service is:

In November THEY cancelled a domestic flight I had paid for in September due to discontinuing the route.

It took a full 2 months to get a refund. In the final refund they even charged me a cancellation fee. Eventually I got it all back, but it was a lot of emails and drama later.

PS. After they've handled the airline check in Filipino ladies can still have all sorts of drama with immigration on the way out. Once they have their boarding pass they're not even half way there.

[ARGUSEYE]

Do you have an old AIR ASIA travel itinerary in your e-emai inbox?

One for a flight out of BKK works best:

Print it out, then print out on a separate sheet new travel data, must be same letter size and type. Cut them out and glue them over the "wrong" Itinerary.

Photo - copy the glued paper. If done properly you can't see that it was tempered with.

ANYWAY, IT SHUTS UP THE CHECK - IN GIRL, I've done it meself.

[tfc]

I've been asked once for my return ticket at immigration when coming into Phuket. I had one that time so no problem. I've never been asked at Bangkok Airport.

[toybits]

So you (the OP) are in Thailand on a Tourist Visa. No Wonder the airline was giving you problems. Too bad you had to rant over an airline that was only doing its job.

[ding]

"But a pre-requisite to qalify for entry under the visa exemtion scheme is that you have a confirmed ticket out of Thailand within those 30 days, if you do not have that you do not qualify for the visa exemption and need a visa."

Thanks Sophon. TV collective wisdom is priceless.

I feel sorry for that airline staff.

They must be trained to deal with misinformed customers so much that other areas of training are missed. Would a bus ticket out to Cambodia work?

Edited April 8, 2011 by ding

[zzaa09]

It is an absolute requirement of Thai immigration that you need an outgoing air ticket within 30 days in order to obtain a 30 day visa exemption, you were lucky to be finally allowed to board. Airlines check this because they are liable to a fine should they carry someone who is then denied entry to Thailand.

On paper and theory is nice. Yet, if you know anything about Thai immigration practices.....mostly overlooked or ignored. Technically, all carriers are required to play the policeman towards perspective passengers and their paperwork - in reality, only a handful of airlines practice this repressive bureaucracy policy.

[lannarebirth]

Here's my question. While in Manila why didn't you pick up a double or triple entry tourist visa? I understand it is difficult for people under 50 and not married to work the visa system here, but it seems to me you missed a good opportunity to buy yourself 6 0r 9 months.

[Travel2003]

Every time, 2-3 times a year, I travel to/from PH I fly with Philippine Air, due to the time schedule.

They always check to see if I have some sort of ticket out of Thailand again, when I return from Manila.

The Thai embassy in Manila is also very strict.

Especially the lady working there.

She has tried many a time to stop me from getting my Non Imm O.

She has obviously been screwed over by a westerner sometime in the past, and is on a mission to pay back to all other.

One time, she even told me to take new pictures, because the ones I took the day before were not good enough.

She tries it all.

Anyhow, Ph Air is indeed very strict, and the state of PH has always ripped their own people off, especially the Overseas workers.

Nothing new, unfortunately.

[bangkokburning]

She had a reservation, it was the same address that she used on her visa app. If she was coming in under the ASEAN agreement, maybe that request was not wholly out of line. In fact, when we all arrive we are required to write our address on the arrival/departure card. I think it quite outlandish that she was not allowed to take care of the issue by booking a hotel. But that is the Philippines - The nation of "no".

What I gleaned from the Philippines is that workers will go out of their way to give you a "no". No is safe, disallowing you something will never jeopardize their job. Phils is a nation of employees and wanna-be employees. The have total aversion to risk.

Chinese run that nation like a concentration camp. Looks more like Africa than Asia. Even Indonesia is a far cleaner, happier place once.

[rnw]

Pls. do understand that PAL's been undergone change of owenership, Lucy Tan-pinoy chinese tries let it out ASAP.seeking new buyer urgently!

of course, they don't want risk anything and make any more new spendings...as PAL being fined by thai immigrations before due to weird spicy thai-pinoy diplomatic relation,politically R.P.has real opposition in parliament ,more democracy than thailand...while Thai Airways hardly gets any fines or pays"gift money" to RP officers. Pinoy 're never short&narrow-minded in general.Thai visitors to RP receive real hospitalities from pinoy 's hearts mostly, not like double-faced thai addressing you"sawadee" while in their deep mind cursing pinoy visitors as dirty poor african or black skin...

most pinoy chink're just selffish .

real pinoy 're not powerful in politics and commerces, master cina seems dominating RP long ago and treat all real pinoy as slaves.,

while sourthern mindanau 's more libral, if your pinoy friend flies directly abroad (eg: hk,singapore, minado,Kuala lumpur,etc) from davao city airport,she wouldn't have been treated like that(denied boarding with silly questioning)...

Edited June 24, 2011 by rnw