Condo Below Mine Says I Have Leak

[mrphisted]

They condo below mine had some water damage to the ceiling and floor. They, of course, say my condo is leaking. I purchased my condo and had it totally renovated 3 years ago. I have done nothing to it since then. I had both a foreman for a renovation crew and a certified plumber say nothing in my condo is leaking. I also had the key to the condo below me and every time we showered, did laundry, washed dishes etc. would go down to see if there was any leakage.... NOT!!!!

They seem to sporadically use the condo and I don't know how long it has been since anyone has stayed there. There have been at least 4 rain storms that have had water in the hallway outside my condo and this could have caused the damage. Unfortunately I don't have any specific dates, pictures etc to prove this.

Now this fool is talking about getting a lawyer and going to court.

Anyone know about the Thai law (knowledge please, not speculation) and my rights? I know in the States, he would have to prove the damage was from my leakage or I could collect damages attorney's fees etc. from a wrongful and frivolous law suit.

We suspect that the manager of the condos owns the unit and is just trying to play "<deleted>*k the farang", but don't have any proof of that.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Jingthing]

If your condo is actually above the condo where there is water damage in the ceiling, then it is completely obvious that your condo DOES have a leak! If you go to court and the damaged condo can show evidence of water damage to their ceiling, then you will most likely lose the case. The Thai law is not on your side on this. You need to be responsible and work this out. Most likely the ceiling will need to be opened below (and you are legally responsible for all of these costs, fixing the plumbing, and repairing the damage below) and then do tests by running water above to locate the leak.

I have been in the damaged condos owner's position and I did consult a Thai lawyer and was indeed told I would easily win my case if it came to court simply by documenting the water damage in the ceiling.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[Thaifan2]

Hope you have Condo insurance .Your leaking mate .

[Jingthing]

My advice. FORGET about going to court. Work with the other owner. Open up his ceiling near the area of damage and do tests. Then it is highly likely the leak will be located and then you can get it fixed and solve the problem without a court case and without this having to happen over and over again, which it will, as long as you have a leak. If there is no leak located after opening the ceiling (which is not that expensive to open a small hole and then fix it) then you will have more evidence there is no leak. But of course if there is water damage, there IS a leak.

Put yourself in the other guy's shoes. How would YOU feel if the condo above YOU was damaging your unit and they weren't cooperating in good faith?

Of course, you can choose to be irresponsible and force this to court, and then even if you lose, you can drag your feet and still find ways not to cooperate. But don't expect much sympathy for acting like that.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[saintofsilence]

If your condo is actually above the condo where there is water damage in the ceiling, then it is completely obvious that your condo DOES have a leak! If you go to court and the damaged condo can show evidence of water damage to their ceiling, then you will most likely lose the case. The Thai law is not on your side on this. You need to be responsible and work this out. Most likely the ceiling will need to be opened below (and you are legally responsible for all of these costs, fixing the plumbing, and repairing the damage below) and then do tests by running water above to locate the leak.

I have been in the damaged condos owner's position and I did consult a Thai lawyer and was indeed told I would easily win my case if it came to court simply by documenting the water damage in the ceiling.

I have to disagree with you about saying the op condo has the leak , water can leak from anywhere it is how the floor angles flow , it could be coming from the pipes leading into the op condo before his shut off valves which is normally listed as a common area.

It could be coming from a lot higher up , in my opinion until the leak is proven where it is coming from the op is not liable.

Edited January 8, 2011 by saintofsilence

[Jingthing]

The damaged condo's ceiling needs to be opened up and tests run. The condo above is the prime suspect and the condo above has a legal responsibility to cooperate. If this goes to court, that will be the ruling. I see your point that tests like that may prove the condo above is not causing the leak. In that case, I can see that the work on the damaged ceiling would then not be his responsibility. However, the owner above STILL needs to cooperate with tests involving examining the water flow with the ceiling opened up, and also if it goes to court, the judgment will likely be an ORDER to cooperate.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[midas]

If your condo is actually above the condo where there is water damage in the ceiling, then it is completely obvious that your condo DOES have a leak! If you go to court and the damaged condo can show evidence of water damage to their ceiling, then you will most likely lose the case. The Thai law is not on your side on this. You need to be responsible and work this out. Most likely the ceiling will need to be opened below (and you are legally responsible for all of these costs, fixing the plumbing, and repairing the damage below) and then do tests by running water above to locate the leak.

I have been in the damaged condos owner's position and I did consult a Thai lawyer and was indeed told I would easily win my case if it came to court simply by documenting the water damage in the ceiling.

It is not " completely obvious " at all ! At least not without having an independant expert

to determine what the cause is.

What if there are pipes or something running above the ceiling of the lower condo and attached to the underside of the

concrete forming mrphisted's floor ( or some other source ) which has nothing to do with mrphisted and would instead be the responsibilty of the Juristic Person to maintain or repair ?

[Jingthing]

I assume the damaged condo's owner has already contacted the building management. They quite usually do NOT get involved in these disputes. I agree that would be the first step. It may not be proven that the damage comes from above, but again, it is highly probable, and any RESPONSIBLE owner would cooperate in getting this tested. These are tricky matters sometimes and in my experience best negotiated between involved parties rather than in court. If the damage IS proven as coming from the OP's condo, still, then all the costs are his responsibility under the law. The other owner may not know that, so the OP may actually get a better deal if he just deals with this one to one, with the goal of helping find the actual problem.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[JWJ]

You had a contractor look for a leak in your unit. What else can you do? Get a written report and send a copy to your neighbor.

Tell the neighbor if he locates a leak in your system, then of course you will pay for the damage.

[saintofsilence]

I assume the damaged condo's owner has already contacted the building management. They quite usually do NOT get involved in these disputes. I agree that would be the first step. It may not be proven that the damage comes from above, but again, it is highly probable, and any RESPONSIBLE owner would cooperate in getting this tested.

It has more than likely came from an overflowed bath or sink something like that and if thats the case they wont be able to prove where it has came from .

[Jingthing]

I assume the damaged condo's owner has already contacted the building management. They quite usually do NOT get involved in these disputes. I agree that would be the first step. It may not be proven that the damage comes from above, but again, it is highly probable, and any RESPONSIBLE owner would cooperate in getting this tested.

It has more than likely came from an overflowed bath or sink something like that and if thats the case they wont be able to prove where it has came from .

That's possible. In that case, if the ceiling is opened and no leak is visually found by running the water above or seen from other pipes not associated with the condo above, the OP would STILL be legally responsible for fixing the damage that DID already occur from a one time FLOOD event. Granted, that would be a harder case for the damaged condo's owner to PROVE in court but showing the damage would still be good evidence. In my personal case, the fault in the condo above was visually obvious INSTANTLY after I had my ceiling opened. So of course, every case is different.

Bottom line. Don't be paranoid. Just cooperate and help figure it out. Be a good neighbor.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[saintofsilence]

I assume the damaged condo's owner has already contacted the building management. They quite usually do NOT get involved in these disputes. I agree that would be the first step. It may not be proven that the damage comes from above, but again, it is highly probable, and any RESPONSIBLE owner would cooperate in getting this tested.

It has more than likely came from an overflowed bath or sink something like that and if thats the case they wont be able to prove where it has came from .

That's possible. In that case, if the ceiling is opened and no leak is visually found by running the water above or seen from other pipes not associated with the condo above, the OP would STILL be legally responsible for fixing the damage that DID already occur from a one time FLOOD event. In my personal case, the fault in the condo above was visually obvious INSTANTLY after I had my ceiling opened. So of course, every case is different.

Wrong he can't be responsible it is not proven it could have come from 6 floors up or the passageway .

[Jingthing]

That would be up to the judge, now, wouldn't it? I already said a one time flood without evidence of a current leak flaw would be harder to prove in court. If it was a one time flood event, that is actually good news of a sort, because then the damage can be fixed without worrying too much that it will happen again.

Again, the responsible thing is to work with the neighbor and help to try to locate the problem. I can understand if the ceiling is opened and no leak can be located anywhere, then the OP at that time may not feel responsible for paying the damage. At that point if that happens, they should talk to each other and the OP should state his case, that there is no proof now that he did the damage. If the other owner then still makes the demand, then the other owner should go to court if he wants, and let a judge decide at that point as a last resort. If the cost of damage wasn't much chances are the other owner wouldn't go to court as the lawyers would cost more than the damages.

Bottom line, at this point anyway, there is damage, and the condo above IS a suspect in causing the damage. In case I haven't made the point well enough, yes, the owner making the damage claim WOULD need to PROVE his case in court with actual evidence. However, these aren't murder cases and I doubt the quality of the evidence needs to be stellar to win such a case.

Back to the OP, this is what I would do.

Ask the other owner to open his ceiling at the damaged area. Help run tests and get your own expert to look in there as the water is running. At that point, when you actually will probably know more, THEN talk about who pays damages and repairs.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[mindabenda]

I assume the damaged condo's owner has already contacted the building management. They quite usually do NOT get involved in these disputes. I agree that would be the first step. It may not be proven that the damage comes from above, but again, it is highly probable, and any RESPONSIBLE owner would cooperate in getting this tested.

It has more than likely came from an overflowed bath or sink something like that and if thats the case they wont be able to prove where it has came from .

The bathtub drain/strainer could be the culprit. Between the drain and the tub itself there should be a rubber gasket. Sometimes the plumbers cut corners and just use a film of silicone. I have had three units where the above bathtubs have a leaked at some point.

[lou62]

I had this problem in my condo, I thought the condo above was leaking into my unit as I had damage to my ceiling. The handyman even visited the people upstairs but couldn't find any problem. It turned out to be a leak in the pipe from my air con compressor to the bit that blows out the cold air (what's it called). You can only find the fault by examining the ceiling.

[Jingthing]

I had this problem in my condo, I thought the condo above was leaking into my unit as I had damage to my ceiling. The handyman even visited the people upstairs but couldn't find any problem. It turned out to be a leak in the pipe from my air con compressor to the bit that blows out the cold air (what's it called). You can only find the fault by examining the ceiling.

The location of the damage is also of course a clue. In my case the damage was directly under the shower of the condo above and that turned out to be the culprit. Obviously the first step is to see if the cause of leak can be located without opening the ceiling, but then the ceiling must be opened to have a look. To fix ceiling water damage, the ceiling will need to be opened anyway though. It's not rocket science.

I will admit my bias here to feel that usually the water damage is caused by a flaw in the condo above. That was my experience but of course that isn't always the case. However, the lawyer I talked to told me that these problems are very common, the culprit usually IS the condo above, and that most of the time the cases don't go to court, that usually a strong threat of going to court forces the parties to deal with it between themselves.

I also know if my downstairs neighbor reported water damage in their ceiling (assuming they had consulted the building engineer first), I would ask them to open their ceiling and how can I help with running water tests. If there is a small water problem, you don't want to wait until it turns into a big problem. I am pretty sure in the long run cooperating would usually cost me less than fighting, and fighting doesn't fix the problem either.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[backsoon]

If your condo is actually above the condo where there is water damage in the ceiling, then it is completely obvious that your condo DOES have a leak! If you go to court and the damaged condo can show evidence of water damage to their ceiling, then you will most likely lose the case. The Thai law is not on your side on this. You need to be responsible and work this out. Most likely the ceiling will need to be opened below (and you are legally responsible for all of these costs, fixing the plumbing, and repairing the damage below) and then do tests by running water above to locate the leak.

I have been in the damaged condos owner's position and I did consult a Thai lawyer and was indeed told I would easily win my case if it came to court simply by documenting the water damage in the ceiling.

Hi, Jingthing. Not being an expert here, but from Aus laws point of view:

1. we ownn and are responsible for a very thin scin of our property.

2. if the leak comes from water or waste pipes between the properties it is a structural reason and must be the responsibility of the Body Corporate.

3. if the owner has the expert check and certification that the leak is not from inside of his property, but rather from the inside of the walls or floors, only in thai he can be held responsible, for obvious reason of BC not willing to do their job.

best regards. please respond here, or PM me

[mrphisted]

If your condo is actually above the condo where there is water damage in the ceiling, then it is completely obvious that your condo DOES have a leak! If you go to court and the damaged condo can show evidence of water damage to their ceiling, then you will most likely lose the case. The Thai law is not on your side on this. You need to be responsible and work this out. Most likely the ceiling will need to be opened below (and you are legally responsible for all of these costs, fixing the plumbing, and repairing the damage below) and then do tests by running water above to locate the leak.

I have been in the damaged condos owner's position and I did consult a Thai lawyer and was indeed told I would easily win my case if it came to court simply by documenting the water damage in the ceiling.

The ceiling is already open in the condo below. I can see the exposed underside of my condo. That is how the renovation crew AND a certified plumber said there was NO LEAK coming from my condo. Also, as I stated before, there were heavy rains that flowed into the hallway of my floor which could have caused this.

Sorry I wasn't clear in my original post, but the owner of the condo didn't just open a small hole, he tore a huge section of the ceiling down and the entire underside of my condo is exposed over the damaged ceiling area. That is why we have found no evidence of a leak. you can see the exposed area and have checked after showers, laundry, dish washing etc.. with no evidence of a leak.

Edited January 9, 2011 by mrphisted

[JWJ]

The building insurance agent should be called if you think the hallway flooding is doing damage.

They should have inspectors that check these things.

[Beardog]

If the roof is flat on top that leak could be from anywhere in the building Just like wood in the U.S. water can flow down the rafters or floor joists & make you think it is from directly above It can just as easily be running on the beam & eventually dripping into his ceiling. Our contractor put in one bad pipe in our house(not glued correctly) unfortunately I put in 95% of the plumbing but was away for 3 weeks when the inside lines were laid. The water leak was almost 30 meters on the other side of the house before it dripped down. So just to be objective It could just as easily be in the condo down he way or in entombed in concrete along the walls. Let your neighbor discover where the leak is- if it is yours & he could show you the leak you pay for repairs. I would make sure he hasn't knicked into the pipe or cut or pulled the pipe to cause it to look like your fault. At any rate you will have a hell of a time getting the condo owner to pay to have it looked at. Even in America the condo board are reluctant to accept any responsibility & the condo owner usually pays & has to take them to court after.When it comes to water it is not iron clad at all. Water runs downhill & the way they build here nothing is ever square- in fact most of the tradesman(even if they have t-squares or levels) rarely uses them & some are not to sure how to use them!

Good luck. I used to hate to get calls to fix a skylight leaking -usually to find out that wasn't entirely the problem.

[yermanee]

If the roof is flat on top that leak could be from anywhere in the building Just like wood in the U.S. water can flow down the rafters or floor joists & make you think it is from directly above It can just as easily be running on the beam & eventually dripping into his ceiling. Our contractor put in one bad pipe in our house(not glued correctly) unfortunately I put in 95% of the plumbing but was away for 3 weeks when the inside lines were laid. The water leak was almost 30 meters on the other side of the house before it dripped down. So just to be objective It could just as easily be in the condo down he way or in entombed in concrete along the walls. Let your neighbor discover where the leak is- if it is yours & he could show you the leak you pay for repairs. I would make sure he hasn't knicked into the pipe or cut or pulled the pipe to cause it to look like your fault. At any rate you will have a hell of a time getting the condo owner to pay to have it looked at. Even in America the condo board are reluctant to accept any responsibility & the condo owner usually pays & has to take them to court after.When it comes to water it is not iron clad at all. Water runs downhill & the way they build here nothing is ever square- in fact most of the tradesman(even if they have t-squares or levels) rarely uses them & some are not to sure how to use them!

Good luck. I used to hate to get calls to fix a skylight leaking -usually to find out that wasn't entirely the problem.

If you look at where and how they put drains (even in the roads) I'm not so sure that Thai architects, engineers etc have discovered this fact.

Yermanee

[Beardog]

If the roof is flat on top that leak could be from anywhere in the building Just like wood in the U.S. water can flow down the rafters or floor joists & make you think it is from directly above It can just as easily be running on the beam & eventually dripping into his ceiling. Our contractor put in one bad pipe in our house(not glued correctly) unfortunately I put in 95% of the plumbing but was away for 3 weeks when the inside lines were laid. The water leak was almost 30 meters on the other side of the house before it dripped down. So just to be objective It could just as easily be in the condo down he way or in entombed in concrete along the walls. Let your neighbor discover where the leak is- if it is yours & he could show you the leak you pay for repairs. I would make sure he hasn't knicked into the pipe or cut or pulled the pipe to cause it to look like your fault. At any rate you will have a hell of a time getting the condo owner to pay to have it looked at. Even in America the condo board are reluctant to accept any responsibility & the condo owner usually pays & has to take them to court after.When it comes to water it is not iron clad at all. Water runs downhill & the way they build here nothing is ever square- in fact most of the tradesman(even if they have t-squares or levels) rarely uses them & some are not to sure how to use them!

Good luck. I used to hate to get calls to fix a skylight leaking -usually to find out that wasn't entirely the problem.

If you look at where and how they put drains (even in the roads) I'm not so sure that Thai architects, engineers etc have discovered this fact.

Yermanee

No they apparently don't. And it is a horrible idea to make the roof flat as it pools & leaves you guessing where the leaks are coming from. I had to teach the Bang Sare county crew why the drain they installed didn't go down the hole. Water flows downhill unless it is pump activated uphill.After they busted out the old setup I gave them some ways to make it go down instead of up. LOL

[flashysite]

What if there’s no more units above mine...i live on the top floor. So right above my unit is the condo building’s roof. The leak comes from the roof, and it destroyed my unit’s ceiling. Who would be responsible for this?

thank you.

[NanLaew]

On 1/9/2011 at 3:17 AM, mrphisted said:

Sorry I wasn't clear in my original post, but the owner of the condo didn't just open a small hole, he tore a huge section of the ceiling down and the entire underside of my condo is exposed over the damaged ceiling area. That is why we have found no evidence of a leak. you can see the exposed area and have checked after showers, laundry, dish washing etc.. with no evidence of a leak.

It does sound like the downstairs occupant was pretty convinced the OP's unit was the problem, tore his ceiling down and now faced with no evidence of a leak from the OP's unit, wants compensation for his rash behavior.

 

While his plumbing is suitably exposed, accessible and easy to check, the OP should fork out and get his unit re-tested and certified in writing as being 100% water tight and then retain counsel to give a copy of the test report and the invoice for the test to the malcontent downstairs.

[Henryford]

I had a similar leak into my condo a while back and i thought yes it was from the condo above. But on checking it was from a pipe above my ceiling NOT from his condo. So i would suggest checking the pipes running above his ceiling before you do anything.

[Rimmer]

Six year old topic

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