If I Had A Degree!

[bluebear]

... But if I had gone to university or some other college to earn my degree, why would anyone be using it in Thailand?....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why the ###### shouldnt we go where we want to after we have graduated?

If I had a degree I would be putting it to good use in England or America or any country where it would serve its purpose to the max, I just think Thailand is being so stupid with there policy on qualifications.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you think going to a uni for 4 years, getting a BA in Business Admin and then finding out just about the only job you can get is working is a call centre serving its purpose to the max? How is a degree in History or Geography or Literature helping someone working in a office or factory environment?

Its funny how the people without a degree always say the Thais are being so unfair in wanting their kids educated by someone WITH an education. You know, people who actually know the difference between there and their.

What do you think?

P.S  Anyone that has a degree and is using it in Thailand, I have big respect for you on this, as you are giving Thai Students what they really need, and if you have married or have children then living in working in Thailand may be the only solution, but if I had no commiments I would be where the money is and that clearly isn't in Thailand!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For someone who claims that he has the highest respect for people already teaching here, so many of your posts have sly little digs at teachers. Why is that?

Edited August 30, 2005 by bluebear

[PeaceBlondie]

Expanding on chownah's explanation, a 'university' bachelor's degree in the USA (and some other First World countries) is equivalent to a 'college' bachelor's degree. A full time student earns a BA in four years of attendance, 9 months per year. In former decades, if the tertiary school did not offer at least a master's degree, it called itself a college. However, there are dozens of schools in the USA that still use the 'college' title, even though they offer master's. My uni was the opposite - cleverly called itself a uni without having a master's program!

On topic: when you've just earned your BA or BS (or even a B.Ed), it's generally wise to stay home, try to get a job in your major field of study, etc. But jobs die. During recessions, a Ph.D. in philosophy is worthless; so is a bachelor's in Latin.

Long after I earned a BA in another field, I switched careers and took 7 or 8 undergraduate uni courses in accounting. Finally, I retired from being a tax accountant. The only job I got after that was for $7.50 and then $9.50 an hour, as night auditor in a hotel.

Times change, and circumstances change. There are all kinds of reasons that farang come to Thailand to teach EFL. Gee, I miss teaching Arporn and Nataphol.

[wilko]

Two observations…

Firstly, it would appear that people with degrees seem to know why they have them and what benefits they brought and still bring, these are not necessarily financial...a degree, any degree, should teach you to think analytically and understand more comprehensively. To those without a degree, the benefits are a closed book. They spend their time telling others how much better THEY would do if they had one which of course they could but they were far too busy making money and learning from the “University of Life”…

Secondly, why is it that everybody seems to be an expert on education? Without any research or training they expound their theories of how bad teaching is and in their day…blah, blah, blah…..

Do they tell surgeon how to perform surgery? Engineers how to build? A farmer when to plant? They ask mechanics to tell them what’s wrong with the car, but never stop telling teachers how to do their job…

[calibanjr.]

Chonabot,

Where can you get a decent Burrito in BKK, or Thailand for that matter? I kind of squint my eyes when I get a shwarma on Soi 3 and pretend.

DD

[chonabot]

Chonabot,

Where can you get a decent Burrito in BKK, or Thailand for that matter?  I kind of squint my eyes when I get a shwarma on Soi 3 and pretend.

DD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Calibanjr , mate I wouldn't have a clue , I just used that as an olive branch to Tyree. I'm a Brit , I like Mex food but couldn't pretend to be an expert on it.

There are some threads on Thai Visa about good/bad Mexican restaurants and I think the main consensus is that you have to cook it yourself.

[mbkudu]

The old cat, Mekong Kurt on bangkokatoz.com, has a recommendation for the

Great American Rib Company on Sukhumvit soi 36. There's a buffet for 199 baht.

He raves on and on about it so it's probably good.

[kenkannif]

^ Off topic but I got their ribs and Chili on Friday......YUMMY! Quite steep though, but nice!

[kenkannif]

Two observations…

Firstly, it would appear that people with degrees seem to know why they have them and what benefits they brought and still bring, these are not necessarily financial...a degree, any degree, should teach you to think analytically and understand more comprehensively. To those without a degree, the benefits are a closed book. They spend their time telling others how much better THEY would do if they had one which of course they could but they were far too busy making money and learning from the “University of Life”…

I don't think anyone is saying that mate. It's just that IME and a lot of other peoples, a degree does not really help you to teach. As fas as I can see no one is saying they're better or more cleverer for not having one.

Secondly, why is it that everybody seems to be an expert on education? Without any research or training they expound their theories of how bad teaching is and in their day…blah, blah, blah…..

Do they tell surgeon how to perform surgery? Engineers how to build? A farmer when to plant? They ask mechanics to tell them what’s wrong with the car, but never stop telling teachers how to do their job…

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We all have opinions, I think it's reasonable to express them elsewise everything would stay exactly the same.

Actually it's often worth telling the Thai mechanics what's wrong with your car and how to fix it as it seems often they don't have a clue and just try everything in the hope it will eventually work.

[wilko]

Two observations…

Firstly, it would appear that people with degrees seem to know why they have them and what benefits they brought and still bring, these are not necessarily financial...a degree, any degree, should teach you to think analytically and understand more comprehensively. To those without a degree, the benefits are a closed book. They spend their time telling others how much better THEY would do if they had one which of course they could but they were far too busy making money and learning from the “University of Life”…

I don't think anyone is saying that mate. It's just that IME and a lot of other peoples, a degree does not really help you to teach. As fas as I can see no one is saying they're better or more cleverer for not having one.

I'm sure at least one person has stated that if they did a degree they would want financial gain from it, also there is an assumption of the limited usefulness of degrees such as philosophy or Latin. If you look at successful people in many fields and their quals they very rarely mirror subject-wise their occupation.

Secondly, why is it that everybody seems to be an expert on education? Without any research or training they expound their theories of how bad teaching is and in their day…blah, blah, blah…..

Do they tell surgeon how to perform surgery? Engineers how to build? A farmer when to plant? They ask mechanics to tell them what’s wrong with the car, but never stop telling teachers how to do their job…

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We all have opinions, I think it's reasonable to express them elsewise everything would stay exactly the same.

Actually it's often worth telling the Thai mechanics what's wrong with your car and how to fix it as it seems often they don't have a clue and just try everything in the hope it will eventually work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Certainly if you know what you're talking about. There's an expression that you're entitled to your own opinion, but frankly if it's based on nothing but inaccuracies, prejudice or superstition then I don't see that you are entitled to it.

[kenkannif]

I like to think that most of the time I know what I'm talking about.

[wilko]

I like to think that most of the time I know what I'm talking about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

just looked at my posting and it would be better if "you" read "one"...

[wilko]

How is a degree in History or Geography or Literature helping someone working in a office or factory environment?

Get a degree and find out!

[PeaceBlondie]

First, there's the obvious: if you're teaching in a school, where almost all the teachers earned a uni degree, they expect you to have a uni degree. Price of admission.

Second, if all other factors could be equal, the hiring person would prefer the well qualified applicant with tertiary education, rather than another well qualified applicant without.

Third, the mere possession of a real uni degree says that the adult was a serious student who played by the rules for 3 to 9 years, attended class, listened to professors, did their homework instead of only getting drunk or laid, passed the rigorous exams, etc. It's hard to get a general tertiary education (liberal arts, humanities, social sciences, arts) without proving that you can deal with human situations, speak clearly, and write well.

Surely, somebody who left school at age 16, has been a sparky or a drywaller for the last ten years, without ever being a foreman, might happen to have a gift of gab, above average IQ, know that Paris is the capital of France, and they would know that "their" is not the same as "there" or "they're".

From reading my CV/resume, you wouldn't know I went to one of the best public high schools in the USA, and graduated from a third rate uni at the age of 29. I cannot repair a Honda, be it a moto or an auto, but I mastered English by age 20, and I can teach it. I was doing impossible youth work in 1968, before I raised six kids. Do I understand pubertal hormones in Matayom 1? Better than most electricians do. I've been a manager of 15 diverse employees, in almost thankless situations, three times. Lived in four countries before I started teaching EFL in Thailand. Am I better equipped at age 63 to jump around the classroom pantomiming "I am jumping" and "I am lifting the chair" than some 21 year old who's been digging ditches outside of Brisbane, Bournemouth, Barcelona or Boston for the last four years? You betcha.

Edited September 1, 2005 by PeaceBlondie

[Neeranam]

If you are learning Thai, would you prefer a teacher with a degree?

I wouldn't as I have arranged Thai lessons for beginners before with a lady who kept on about her Thai literature degree.

I had to interupt her on a few occassions telling her that what she was teaching was never used in real life.

Nearly all the guys I have met and worked with in Thailand with MAs and above in Linguistics, tesol, etc have been terrible teachers.

Many of them have not been able to keep a job without their higher education.

It pisses me off watching some of these guys teaching. The Thai admin usually think they are great, just because of their degree.

Instead of getting this they would be much better getting practical experience.

Just my experience?

[Rhys]

Last post.. well said... DATs DA FAC JAC

It all depends.. the school, the teacher, with or without a Ph.D.. or B.S. B.A..

Practical experience is a starting point.. however, most teachers who were not English Majors in College, do..take it upon themselves.. to.. BONE up on what is required to teach English effectively.. Anybody can teach English but to teach it well...requires training, dedication, and professionalism.. and yes, many English teachers are notorious for spelling errors and handwriting legibility...BUT boy.. can they teach well.

Can it be..a change in the hillside.. is what attracts many to teach abroad..

Most Thai schools.. if you show your professionalism.. will leave you alone...

Occassionally, you do meet the Crusty OLD Ajaan YAI.. holding on.. and making life miserable for others..BUT they pass away.. But as I have been told..SOME deposit.. biological substances : liquids or solids in the tea cup... and grin away as the AJaan YAI.. Drinks away....Revenge infusion.. Childish but .... the urban legend continues..

[kenkannif]

How is a degree in History or Geography or Literature helping someone working in a office or factory environment?

Get a degree and find out!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^ Although personally I think just asking them might be a quicker and easier process???

[geo]

I have voiced my opinion on this issue many times and have usually been met with utter...

My argument is simple, if any of us was living back in our respective countries would we not want qualified teachers in the schools teaching our children?

A native speaker of English does not necessarily mean a teacher of English or any other subject.

A teaching degree does make a difference (most of the time).

[westybrook]

If I was the head of a Language department I would want the best, you think with someone having a degree that you would get the best, but I know someone who was a teacher in Thailand and sucked! I know many people who have degrees, but I seriously question how they could get such a thing.

At the end of the day if you have the heart, and confidence, can get and keep peoples attention and make them leave the classroom learning at least something then you are teacher.

Degrees are not needed to teach in Thailand it’s pathetic. Yes in any university in USA and England I would expect the teacher to have one but not in LOS teaching at a government school or uni

Come on people!

It appears to me many how are defending the whole policy on schools recruiting teachers with degrees are such people who have them Well done for your achievements in whatever field but how does that qualify you to teach, it doesn’t Plain and simple, ok you went to class, and you did your study for x amount of years, but if that was in a field totally different to teaching then your on the same level as the rest that don't have degrees.

If I was going to my doctor I would want them to have the credentials in the field that they are currently in, not 5 years in engineering for them to examine me or my family.

The degree has to fit the field!

[chonabot]

I think if a TEFL degree existed then fine , on a university level. But it does not AFAIK. There are many,many post grad TEFL courses , diploma's and even MAsters TEFL degree equivalent , but you need a BA in order to diversify into this field. The fact that you are a native English speaker and have proven ( at degree level) that you can apply yourself to study and research sufficiently to pass and attain the Bachelors qualification is a sign of quality. The post grad courses are where the application of techniques to teach English exist. There are those who bypass the entire process and become good teachers due to an inherent quality. There are those armed to the teeth with genuine qualifications that are cr'p teachers.

The point is , it is your choice.

I believe by completing a degree course, in any field, you will develop application skills that will help you in whatever walk of life you decide to take.

I completed my first BA at 30 , after years of travelling , I was astonished how my outlook on life changed.

[kenkannif]

I have voiced my opinion on this issue many times and have usually been met with utter...

My argument is simple, if any of us was living back in our respective countries would we not want qualified teachers in the schools teaching our children?

A native speaker of English does not necessarily mean a teacher of English or any other subject.

A teaching degree does make a difference (most of the time).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, although I have seen older BEds struggle with the TTT here as EFL is quite different from teaching your subject to native speakers.

We're (I think) though not talking about teaching degrees per se, rather any old degree (generally unrelated to teaching).

Also to be honest would a 'proper' teacher be happy teaching 40-60 kids in a class for 40 odd K a month??? I don't think so.

They way the teaching is set up here (from low to mid level) I would say is most 'proper' teachers' worst nightmare and probably goes against pretty much everything they've learned.

[kenkannif]

There are indeed BA courses in TEFL.

[bluebear]

How is a degree in History or Geography or Literature helping someone working in a office or factory environment?

Get a degree and find out!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have got a degree mate. I still fail how a degree in history is going to help someone maximise their capacity when they work in an office.

"Pass the stapler Smithers old chap."

"Of course, back in the middle ages, they didnt have staplers they used pine needles."

"Fine. Now pass the bloody stapler."

[chonabot]

Could you give me a link to them please?

[kenkannif]

I'll try and get some more specific ones but this should be a start:

http://www.google.co.th/search?hl=en&q=%22...n+tefl%22&meta=

[Ijustwannateach]

It doesn't help to mix up the issues, Geo. Conversational TEFL teachers are hired to teach ONE COMPONENT of language learning (speaking/listening). It's pretty far from being a teacher of English as a language arts course (grammar, literature, etc.).

A *degree* might be helpful- certainly couldn't hurt- but I don't think it's an absolute necessity in doing conversational classes with kids. The skill-specific TEFL courses are probably much more useful, assuming the teacher speaks English at a pretty fluent level to begin with.

A *teaching degree* to do conversational TEFL here would help- as you say- but is major overkill and overqualification.

"Steven"

[Phuket electrician]

I am sure that having a degree or the experience of a higher education confirms that making and managing your money is fundemental to a healthy and successful life, because the problems we all encounter and of the world emenate from education and money. At the moment the Americans are running the show and influence the price of Oil. Why because they consume so much of it. Furthermore the Americans have the resources to eradicate famine, desiese, polution - global warming. So why don,t they? It,s all about the buck! So we all know this, but do we all know the answer to these five simple question. 1) the difference between left and right? 2) the meaning of the word culture? 3) five multiplied 0.2? 4) the chemical makeup of the air we breathe? 4) the number of and name of the known planets in our universe? I know some people that could not answer of these questions comfortably and they have a degree from Cambridge, as do I. Cheers - Phuket Electrician

[Ijustwannateach]

A strange and interesting post... it's hard to tell if you're commenting on the need for degrees, for anti-Americanism, or for spelling.

"Steven"

[2long]

Teaching English here is the most miserable occupation. You flop into it, but are not really a teacher by vocation, the money...well its just not worth going through the traffic for.

I did it, and its pretty grim.

You're doing it for the most paltry money, and you end up drinking the rubbishy coffee in the teachers room because you rationalize that a Starbucks =half a lesson fee.

You come out of class at the end of the day, dying for many beers, because you're so zonked.

As a solution, its a solution, but a bad one.

I'm not referring to teaching in schools by properly qualified people, where professionally trained people can make a good living and are a true asset.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not very nice. Nor is it accurate.

We have two teachers with PhDs and they're the laziest of the lot. Our four best teachers don't have a degree between them.

I hope I got this quoting thing right!