Thai Firms Say Red Shirt Protests Threaten Jobs

[Ricardo]

Red shirt leader Thida warns Ratchaprasong businessp eople not to be enemies of group; Jatuporn says worsening econ not as bad as dead reds /TAN_Network

"Red shirt leader Thida warns Ratchaprasong business people not to be enemies of group"

Is this another example of red democracy?

Perhaps more a warning from her, that only red-shirt groups are allowed to stand-up, for the poor. They naturally have exclusive-rights for this in Thailand, and all other pretenders such as these employers (concerned about their employees or their own jobs) are fakes, including of course the Dems or any other political-party.

How dare they do anything, which benefits the poor, and steals her own side's thunder ?

[Buchholz]

Red shirt leader Thida warns Ratchaprasong businessp eople not to be enemies of group; Jatuporn says worsening econ not as bad as dead reds /TAN_Network

"Red shirt leader Thida warns Ratchaprasong business people not to be enemies of group"

Is this another example of red democracy?

Perhaps more a warning from her, that only red-shirt groups are allowed to stand-up, for the poor. They naturally have exclusive-rights for this in Thailand, and all other pretenders such as these employers (concerned about their employees or their own jobs) are fakes, including of course the Dems or any other political-party.

How dare they do anything, which benefits the poor, and steals her own side's thunder ?

Yes, the Red Shirt Leaders did a smashing successful job of standing up for the poor amongst their ranks:

Many Thai Red Shirts Abandoned By Their Leaders

btw, nice threat from the "moderate" Thida above.

.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Buchholz

[jayboy]

Red shirt leader Thida warns Ratchaprasong businessp eople not to be enemies of group; Jatuporn says worsening econ not as bad as dead reds /TAN_Network

"Red shirt leader Thida warns Ratchaprasong business people not to be enemies of group"

Is this another example of red democracy?

Perhaps more a warning from her, that only red-shirt groups are allowed to stand-up, for the poor. They naturally have exclusive-rights for this in Thailand, and all other pretenders such as these employers (concerned about their employees or their own jobs) are fakes, including of course the Dems or any other political-party.

How dare they do anything, which benefits the poor, and steals her own side's thunder ?

Thai employers "concerned" about their "poor" employees are rarer than Oxbridge Ph.D's on a visa run bus to the Cambodian border.They pay what they think they can get away with.

As far as the Dems' "populist" measures only the completely blinkered would deny that these wouldn't have taken place at all without Thaksin's example and Red pressure.The senior Dems don't even bother to deny this.

If they can get away with it good luck to them.I prefer Abhisit and Korn to the Red leadership (not least because they are economically literate), and there's a long political tradition of "walking away with the Whigs' clothes", i.e more conservative parties commandeering electorally attractive elements of opposition policies.

You can insult Thida and the Reds all you like but the reality is that the landscape of Thai politics has been permanently changed, and this is entirely due to the Reds

[Emptyset]

As far as the Dems' "populist" measures only the completely blinkered would deny that these wouldn't have taken place at all without Thaksin's example and Red pressure.The senior Dems don't even bother to deny this.

Exactly. And many of the policies people have been excited about here (i.e. "why don't they realize Abhisit is doing more for them than Thaksin?") are either continuations of Thaksin's (& cronies) policies or rehashes/reworks of them. If you remember even Banyat was commited to neo-liberal monetarism. He was strictly opposed to "populist" policies. It was only when Abhisit urged the rest of the Dems that they'd lose out with the electorate that they began to include so-called "populist" policies in their manifesto. There's nothing wrong with that, but it was definitely as a result of Thaksin. Which is why I still say, despite his faults, failings and the recent chaos, Thaksin has still been better for Thailand than otherwise (with the caveat that I hope he never gets into power again and reds see his obvious faults).

You can insult Thida and the Reds all you like but the reality is that the landscape of Thai politics has been permanently changed, and this is entirely due to the Reds

Indeed. And may it go further. Was reading Nidhi's thoughts in the other paper earlier. He points out that capitalists are not challenged by the red shirts whilst they're still lead by career politicians and Thaksin cronies. However, if people like Sombat gain more influence & begin to effect change from the bottom up, you'll see a much harsher reaction to the red shirts than before, from the capitalist class as a whole. Because the grassroots demand for "justice" is much harder to satisfy than Thaksin's demand for "justice".

Edited January 15, 2011 by Emptyset

[Buchholz]

Chai also disputed a claim by red-shirt leader and opposition Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan that the leaders had coordinated with the Ratchaprasong retailers before each of their previous demonstrations there.

"Never," the businessman said.

Duly noted and logged as Red Shirt Leader cum Pheu Thai Party MP Jatuporn's Lie Number # 4,239

The clown show continues...

Red shirts agree to limit Ratchaprasong rally to two hours

Jatuporn, meanwhile, welcomed the talks, saying this was the first time that the two sides had the opportunity to gain an understanding of one another.

[Buchholz]

Red shirts agree to limit Ratchaprasong rally to two hours

Thida said the red shirts would protest at Ratchaprasong intersection for about two hours before moving to the Democracy Monument on Rajdamnoen Avenue.

The red-shirt leader added that under the agreement she expected the rally to have a minimal impact on businesses.

She also dismissed allegations that the red shirts had blocked traffic in the area during previous rallies.

*sigh* ...

the last rally...

Thai 'Red Shirts' return to Bangkok streets

The demonstrators, clapping and singing in their trademark red clothes, brought traffic to a standstill

Ratchadamneon Klang Road from Khok Wua intersection to the Democracy Monument was closed to traffic.

The protesters then moved to gather at Ratchaprasong crossroads at 4 pm, resulting in congested traffic in Sukhumvit and Ploenchit Roads.

By late afternoon, Ratchaprasong was closed to traffic due to the crowd.

[jayboy]

The clown show continues...

Irritated by the sensible compromise negotiated by police, traders and redshirts?

Our PAD representative from Sri Racha resorts to baby talk.

[Ricardo]

Thai employers "concerned" about their "poor" employees are rarer than Oxbridge Ph.D's on a visa run bus to the Cambodian border.They pay what they think they can get away with.

As far as the Dems' "populist" measures only the completely blinkered would deny that these wouldn't have taken place at all without Thaksin's example and Red pressure.The senior Dems don't even bother to deny this.

If they can get away with it good luck to them.I prefer Abhisit and Korn to the Red leadership (not least because they are economically literate), and there's a long political tradition of "walking away with the Whigs' clothes", i.e more conservative parties commandeering electorally attractive elements of opposition policies.

You can insult Thida and the Reds all you like but the reality is that the landscape of Thai politics has been permanently changed, and this is entirely due to the Reds

I wouldn't for one moment deny Thaksin his place in history, he did raise the political-profile of the poor here, and I have happily given him credit for that in the past. But might not his motives for now wishing to return to power even be questioned ?

I fully welcome any improvement for the poor, including those which have arisen since September-2006, and would note that those have come from governments of both hues. Whether this is because of core-belief or political-expediency doesn't matter a jot, to the worker who benefits from free-hospitals, or a rising minimum-wage.

I sincerely wish Khun Thida well, although I don't yet see much support for her post-Thaksin leadership-stance, from within the ranks of the splintered & diverse red-movement. There's an election coming, they need to get their act together, quickly !

But to claim that the broad long-term social-change, which is currently underway, "is entirely due to the reds" is IMO a serious over-claim. It's much wider than the UDD, who are a minority activist-group, or the PTP, who are still only a large minority-party in Parliament. And to pose the reds as the sole-and-only representatives/defenders of the poor, as some TV-posters seem to wish to do, is totally wrong.

Which is the point I was trying to make, when Thida appeared to be threatening local employers, who objected that the protests were affecting their businesses.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Ricardo

[jdinasia]

The clown show continues...

Irritated by the sensible compromise negotiated by police, traders and redshirts?

Our PAD representative from Sri Racha resorts to baby talk.

.... and yet again Jayboy attacks the poster (with innuendo and not facts apparently) instead of dealing with the post.

Bucholz's post clearly showed where Thida lied about not blocking/shutting down traffic around Central World ... so instead of dealing with that ......

[JetsetBkk]

The clown show continues...

Irritated by the sensible compromise negotiated by police, traders and redshirts?

Our PAD representative from Sri Racha resorts to baby talk.

.... and yet again Jayboy attacks the poster (with innuendo and not facts apparently) instead of dealing with the post.

<snip>

Oh, the irony!

"As Ye Sow, So Shall Ye Reap."

[jdinasia]

Irritated by the sensible compromise negotiated by police, traders and redshirts?

Our PAD representative from Sri Racha resorts to baby talk.

.... and yet again Jayboy attacks the poster (with innuendo and not facts apparently) instead of dealing with the post.

<snip>

Oh, the irony!

"As Ye Sow, So Shall Ye Reap."

1) please do not edit my posts.

2) the part that you edited showed where jayboy had committed the foul.

3) the following is the part of my post that you deleted ... putting my remark in context

Bucholz's post clearly showed where Thida lied about not blocking/shutting down traffic around Central World ... so instead of dealing with that ......

edit ---- Jetset your post 105 with questions was answered by me in post 113. But no response from you was forthcoming. Why? Perhaps it is that your argument that protests meant to disrupt/inconvenience people totally excuses how the PAD action at Swampy in 2008 was handled?

Edited January 15, 2011 by jdinasia

[JetsetBkk]

"Jatuporn says worsening econ not as bad as dead reds"

I think most people think otherwise.

<snip>

:jerk:

[whybother]

"Jatuporn says worsening econ not as bad as dead reds"

I think most people think otherwise.

<snip>

:jerk:

Where is the Quote Nazi (Siam Simon) to complain about people editing quotes and taking them out of context? I suppose it's OK for him when it's his fellow red supporters doing it.

[JetsetBkk]

Oh, the irony!

"As Ye Sow, So Shall Ye Reap."

1) please do not edit my posts.

2) the part that you edited showed where jayboy had committed the foul.

3) the following is the part of my post that you deleted ... putting my remark in context

Bucholz's post clearly showed where Thida lied about not blocking/shutting down traffic around Central World ... so instead of dealing with that ......

All perfectly according to the rules. Please keep up:

Oh, and the "context" of your remark was irrelevant to my "Reap / Sow" comment, as you well know.

[JetsetBkk]

"Jatuporn says worsening econ not as bad as dead reds"

I think most people think otherwise.

<snip>

:jerk:

Where is the Quote Nazi (Siam Simon) to complain about people editing quotes and taking them out of context? I suppose it's OK for him when it's his fellow red supporters doing it.

You can read this too:

There was no point in quoting the rest of hyperdimension's ridiculous rant. He said it all in the first few words.

So now we have a couple of anti-reds trying to get the mods to deal with a pro-red. Very similar to the tactics another anti-red used to use. But he's not here now, is he? Well, not with that name, anyway.

[whybother]

Where is the Quote Nazi (Siam Simon) to complain about people editing quotes and taking them out of context? I suppose it's OK for him when it's his fellow red supporters doing it.

You can read this too: http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__3253483

There was no point in quoting the rest of hyperdimension's ridiculous rant. He said it all in the first few words.

So now we have a couple of anti-reds trying to get the mods to deal with a pro-red. Very similar to the tactics another anti-red used to use. But he's not here now, is he? Well, not with that name, anyway.

I didn't mention mods. I mentioned Siam Simon. He goes to great lengths to point out what he thinks is wrong with editing quotes.

Edited January 15, 2011 by whybother

[rubl]

begin removed ...

As far as the Dems' "populist" measures only the completely blinkered would deny that these wouldn't have taken place at all without Thaksin's example and Red pressure.The senior Dems don't even bother to deny this.

If they can get away with it good luck to them.I prefer Abhisit and Korn to the Red leadership (not least because they are economically literate), and there's a long political tradition of "walking away with the Whigs' clothes", i.e more conservative parties commandeering electorally attractive elements of opposition policies.

You can insult Thida and the Reds all you like but the reality is that the landscape of Thai politics has been permanently changed, and this is entirely due to the Reds

The 'populist' measures are from the government, which is not really the same as Dem's. A coalition remember?

As for 'if they get away with it' suggests the Dem's have done something devious, wrong, bordering illegal even maybe. Your opinion I guess, but personally I see no proof of that.

[Buchholz]

The clown show continues...

Irritated by the sensible compromise negotiated by police, traders and redshirts?

Not at all, just annoyed that constant lying by Red Shirts are not addressed by their supporters like yourself.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

edit ---- Jetset your post 105 with questions was answered by me in post 113. But no response from you was forthcoming. Why? Perhaps it is that your argument that protests meant to disrupt/inconvenience people totally excuses how the PAD action at Swampy in 2008 was handled?

Why no response? Because I really can't be bothered most of the time. And by the time I come back to this type of thread, several pages worth of posts have been added and I'm not going to read them all. I sometimes wonder if you guys ever leave your PC screen.

But just for you, here's what I would have replied:

No, neither the reds encampment nor the PAD Swampy invasion were acceptable, but that's what protesters do - they try to get into the media by inconveniencing people. If they met in a field in Issan, would that get more than a passing mention?

Same with you, whybother:

Are we getting red shirt supporters saying it was OK for the yellow shirts to block the airport?

The answer is No. But that's what they do. And it nearly always escalates from one side to the other. That is, until the violence breaks out and then people forget about the previous protests that damaged tourism and only concentrate on the last, violent one.

And JD, you didn't answer one of my questions: 'Are you a resident or "businessman in bkk"?'

Now, I've spent enough time to-ing and fro-ing between posts and pages. So please excuse me if I don't reply until maybe after midnight as I have a protest to go have to go out.

[jdinasia]

Jetset -- am I a resident businessman in BKK? Yes and No

My company has a branch in BKK ... so yes. I, however, live in Chiang Mai where our main business is set up.

[Buchholz]

.... and yet again Jayboy attacks the poster (with innuendo and not facts apparently) instead of dealing with the post.

Bucholz's post clearly showed where Thida lied about not blocking/shutting down traffic around Central World ... so instead of dealing with that ......

Standard Operating Procedure

[rubl]

Are we getting red shirt supporters saying it was OK for the yellow shirts to block the airport?

The answer is No. But that's what they do. And it nearly always escalates from one side to the other. That is, until the violence breaks out and then people forget about the previous protests that damaged tourism and only concentrate on the last, violent one.

The last violent one also damaged tourism.

Life ain't fair, now is it ?

[jdinasia]

The answer is No. But that's what they do. And it nearly always escalates from one side to the other. That is, until the violence breaks out and then people forget about the previous protests that damaged tourism and only concentrate on the last, violent one.

The last violent one also damaged tourism.

Life ain't fair, now is it ?

Hmmmm it appears that Jetset is saying that the PAD wasn't violent (at least on the level that the redshirts are. At last we can agree on something!

Life is simple, the results of actions are rarely simple. The PAD went to the airport to meet Somchai and the AOT chief at the airport overreacted. The issue then becomes violence. The PAD were far from being pure in the violence department. They didn't, however, run amok across the country setting fires and using grenade launchers. Sure, people get nervous when their travel plans are interrupted but they stay away in droves when it comes to feeling that a violent insurrectionist movement is taking place.

Confidence that Thailand will deal with some of its issues seems to be returning and that is a good thing. If the reds are allowed unfettered access to shutting down major tourist/retail/business sections of the country on a regular basis again, that confidence will disappear.

[TAWP]

Thai employers "concerned" about their "poor" employees are rarer than Oxbridge Ph.D's on a visa run bus to the Cambodian border.They pay what they think they can get away with.

Uhm, that is how it is supposed to be and it is in all parts of the world.

Do you run your own business, are you employed or lifting social service benefits?

[jayboy]

As for 'if they get away with it' suggests the Dem's have done something devious, wrong, bordering illegal even maybe. Your opinion I guess, but personally I see no proof of that.

No you misunderstand me.It's perfectly acceptable even commendable, and represents Thailand's accession to modern politics.That's why on balance I support the Abhisit/Korn approach.

[jayboy]

Thai employers "concerned" about their "poor" employees are rarer than Oxbridge Ph.D's on a visa run bus to the Cambodian border.They pay what they think they can get away with.

Uhm, that is how it is supposed to be and it is in all parts of the world.

Do you run your own business, are you employed or lifting social service benefits?

I wasn't making a moral judgement, simply querying whether the benevolent Quaker employment philosophy has many followers among the Sino-Thai business class.

[TAWP]

Thai employers "concerned" about their "poor" employees are rarer than Oxbridge Ph.D's on a visa run bus to the Cambodian border.They pay what they think they can get away with.

Uhm, that is how it is supposed to be and it is in all parts of the world.

Do you run your own business, are you employed or lifting social service benefits?

I wasn't making a moral judgement, simply querying whether the benevolent Quaker employment philosophy has many followers among the Sino-Thai business class.

So you admit that Thai, American and Japanese employers pay their employees the lowest salary they think their employees will accept to perform the job assigned, no-matter if the employee is poor or rich or the skin-color they have?

[jdinasia]

I wasn't making a moral judgement, simply querying whether the benevolent Quaker employment philosophy has many followers among the Sino-Thai business class.

lol ... Sino-Thai business class? Jayboy are you assuming that there is any difference in how the Thai/Chinese ethnic group pays and treats employees in Thailand compared to other groups? If so, can you show any empirical evidence of this? Yet again the attack on the Thai Chinese ethnic group? Why? Your basic premise seems to be that businesses all tend to use the same typical policies to maximize profits, so singling out this group you attack over and over smacks of bigotry to me.

[Emptyset]

No you misunderstand me.It's perfectly acceptable even commendable, and represents Thailand's accession to modern politics.That's why on balance I support the Abhisit/Korn approach.

What is the Abhisit/Korn "approach"? This pairing might be more competent/qualified than what PT has to offer at the moment (but let's remember this much lauded pairing has taken on board much of PT/PPP's platform), but I don't see any evidence AT ALL of them having a different "approach"? As far as I can tell both sides have roughly the same economic & social policies, the only difference is one side is closer to the traditional elite than the other. Correct me if I'm wrong. The only crucial difference is rhetorical and stylistic, a matter of perception, I suppose. Abhisit is unlikely to be able to communicate to the rural poor in the way Thaksin was able to (don't know why because it's not like Thaksin had anything to do w/the rural poor before he became a politician).

[jayboy]

Thai employers "concerned" about their "poor" employees are rarer than Oxbridge Ph.D's on a visa run bus to the Cambodian border.They pay what they think they can get away with.

Uhm, that is how it is supposed to be and it is in all parts of the world.

Do you run your own business, are you employed or lifting social service benefits?

I wasn't making a moral judgement, simply querying whether the benevolent Quaker employment philosophy has many followers among the Sino-Thai business class.

So you admit that Thai, American and Japanese employers pay their employees the lowest salary they think their employees will accept to perform the job assigned, no-matter if the employee is poor or rich or the skin-color they have?

I don't see where you're going with this or why.But anyway you seem a reasonable polite sort of person so here goes..

Actually while obviously you are broadly correct, there are significant differences in the examples you mention related to culture, meaningful minimum wages etc etc.Remember that the average Sino-Thai businessman is only a few generations away from being a wretched illiterate peasant.These people dragged themselves up amazingly but there's not likely to be much sympathy for the concept of generous salaries.In other words the dog eat dog mentality is more prevalent.I don't particularly have any issue with this.