Many Thais Favour Use Of Cane For Unruly Youths

[robblok]

Interesting thread. A lot of opinions mostly don't do it. But no one has posted a doable alternative.

Don't you think that if it was that easy much smarter people like you or me would already have implemented it ?

[mark45y]

I went to Catholic schools for 12 years. The nuns used to smack me daily. The Priests in High School would throw erasers at the kids who were not paying attention. Some of them really had good aim. I can remember daydreaming in the back of the class and looking out the window only to be smacked in the head by a chalk filled eraser, wakes one up quickly.

One priest hit me on the jaw and knocked me out for a minute. He was scratching his crotch and I made a comment about some blue ointment would fix that in a hurry (I implied he had crabs). I thought it was funny he didn't agree.

I taught in Thailand at low income government schools for a few years. At first I was aghast at the corporal punishment. My office also doubled as sick room and the kids used to come in and play in the area for sick kids to lay down. I would chase them out. One day the kids kept coming back in after I chased them out, paying no attention to me at all (yes I can speak Thai and told them in Thai). I had exams to correct and needed some silence. Finally, exasperated I called an old lady Thai teacher to clear them out. She came in and beat the crap out of the offending students. Problem solved.

I never had any problems maintaining discipline in the classroom because I kept the class moving. Only 20 minutes doing one thing and then on to another, rotating writing, speaking and playing an educational game. At the end of the day I was always exhausted because of the physical nature of the instruction - jumping and running and singing and such.

Not like my teachers who sat or stood up front and lectured and demanded the students sit quietly and listen and then recite their lessons. Because of the nature of Thai education one has to keep Thai students moving and active or they revert to playing grab ass in a couple of minutes of boredom or inactivity.

I have never seen a Thai teacher who did not have some form of stick in the class for discipline. When one of my classes would get loud the better students would bring me the teacher's stick and tell me to hit their fellow classmates so they could learn. Caning per se I have seen little of but hitting students with taped ruler or taped bamboo stick I saw every hour in every class in the 5 different towns and ten different schools where I taught.

I tended to use sound, a whistle or bang on a desk with the stick to get attention when needed.

I taught at one school populated with Thai kids from difficult home backgrounds. They were a handful. The English teacher before me got fired because he beat up three 16 year old boys. I always thought it was a matter of self defense but I was never put in that situation.

If things got really bad I gave the kids a broom and had them go outside and sweep the hallway. One day, one of the Thai teachers told me I really didn't have to clean the school but she appreciated my efforts anyway. However there were parts of the Thai educational system that impressed me. I taught at one school with a swimming pool. I watched a Thai teacher supervise 50, 10 year old kids running and jumping around a wet slippery cement swimming pool and no one died. She never even yelled at them. Have you ever seen 50 Thai children at a swimming pool? It is a death wish made real. It is frightening. But the teacher never even broke a sweat. Amazing Thailand.

I would be interested to hear on this thread from any teachers who work in a government school and don't see caning or some kind of physical punishment on a daily basis. As far as I know, laws aside, physical punishment occurs every day at every government school in Thailand.

Hence this discussion is a bit foolish. Corporal punishment is a fact of life in every Thai government school except for those who don't know anything about Thai government schools like the people positing on TV.

[mark45y]

Interesting thread. A lot of opinions mostly don't do it. But no one has posted a doable alternative.

Don't you think that if it was that easy much smarter people like you or me would already have implemented it ?

The answer is simple. Get rid of 90% of the administrators as they don't contribute to education. Administrators contribute only to bureaucracy and paperwork and are lazy good for nothing parasites. Put the saved money into teachers and get the class sizes down to 20 students. It is easy to control a class of 20 students. Even poor teachers can control a class of only 20 students.

[coma]

I used to cop 6 of the best across the hands when i f##ked up at school as a youngter. Hurty hurties. Especially in the winter. Don't think it did much good. IMO physical punishment such as this is real cave man techniques.IMO . Burn me if you will.

So is cooking your food but it works.

Couldn't resist that.

Seriously what other modern techniques do we have that work. I got my hands rapped a couple of times with the ruler it smarted quite a bit. How ever the teacher still maintained control of the class and many of the students benifited by learning rather than being unruly. Point is it will stop a lot of students from conduct that prevents them from learning. (we rebels were in a very small minority most of the kids were followers) And they choose to follow kids who didn't get hurt. dam_n now I am wondering what the #^&$%@!) was wrong with me.

Even my self a born again rebel maintained a bit of control in that class. Here I am 60 years later and can honestly say it did help. But at the time I could not say that. Here I am 60 years later no pain and a very little bit more of learning.

Thanks for the reply. You born again rebel you. Very interesting perspective indeed. I think one of the main poblems is, as you put it, there is a difference between the rebels/renegade students and the followers. And in alot of cases in my time at school the teachers punished the lot instead of the 'ringleader/s'. Collective punishment was a common thing which bred more decent and more unruly behaviour

As for your question' what modern techniques do we have that work ?' WOW! Very tough question to answer indeed. Maybe giving incentives for good behavior as opposed to physical punishment for bad behaviour. Just my idea only.

I do understand that there is definately two clear cut sides to this debate. Both have good and bad points.

[coma]

IMO.Caning a child is just an outlet for teachers to vent thier frustration and anger. The only good that can come of reintroducing it would be that the teachers will not go home after work and kick the dog and yell at the wife.

[jayjay0]

Interesting thread. A lot of opinions mostly don't do it. But no one has posted a doable alternative.

Don't you think that if it was that easy much smarter people like you or me would already have implemented it ?

The answer is simple. Get rid of 90% of the administrators as they don't contribute to education. Administrators contribute only to bureaucracy and paperwork and are lazy good for nothing parasites. Put the saved money into teachers and get the class sizes down to 20 students. It is easy to control a class of 20 students. Even poor teachers can control a class of only 20 students.

excellent ideas.

but you forgot I said doable.

By the way thank you for your article and years of experience.

[robblok]

Interesting thread. A lot of opinions mostly don't do it. But no one has posted a doable alternative.

Don't you think that if it was that easy much smarter people like you or me would already have implemented it ?

The answer is simple. Get rid of 90% of the administrators as they don't contribute to education. Administrators contribute only to bureaucracy and paperwork and are lazy good for nothing parasites. Put the saved money into teachers and get the class sizes down to 20 students. It is easy to control a class of 20 students. Even poor teachers can control a class of only 20 students.

That is a good idea.. i think the size of a class is much more of a problem (and the quality of a teacher) then being able to cane students if they misbehave. Unfortunately money is always an issue and it wont happen. Not here.. not back home. (bureaucrats seem to defend their positions real good)

[a99az]

Perhaps Thailand and others could benefit if they researched this topic. Corporal punishment has many ill effects. It is usually b/c adults i.e. parents/teachers etc do not have the cognitive ability to figure out how to aid the child/student to change behavior that a DUMB approach (hitting) is thought of and (unfortunately) used.

I would agree with you, but there are times when I would love to give one or two of my more difficult student, a good canning. They can be a real trial, I get them to give me 200 squats that helps a bit, and keeps them entertained and gives them something to think about.

[mark45y]

IMO.Caning a child is just an outlet for teachers to vent thier frustration and anger. The only good that can come of reintroducing it would be that the teachers will not go home after work and kick the dog and yell at the wife.

It is not reintroducing it. It never left Thai Government schools. However, it makes little difference with class size of 50 students. 20 to 30 is OK. 40 is bad and 50 is a lost cause unless you split the class into four and have a teacher or student teacher or bully or someone in each quarter knocking heads to keep them quiet while you teach one quarter. Except for rote learning you can't teach large classes in the lower grades. In college you can have a lecture hall with a 1000 students no problem. The students are paying for the education and keep quiet and listen. But not grade school or high school.

[Heng]

They should cane adults as well. It won't help in a lot of cases, as plenty of folks have been slowly 'caned' (or more like have had the will crushed out of them) all of their lives, but it will help as a deterrence for those who aren't yet completely jaded by the system.

As a child in the 50s we got caned, but it wasn,t for bad behaviour really, it was for treading on rose gardens, or fighting in the playground, or talking in class. Our discipline was taught from a baby, not hardly verbal, a look from dad was enough to put fear into you. IT'S got to be taught at HOME, correction-with love, right and wrong, the black and white, the good and the evil,--I used to hear parents say if you don't behave i'll go and get a black man-or a policeman. That is not good-but in them days it worked. Where most kids get wrong is when you get non caring adults, allowing their spoilt kids to run amock

, here they call it FREE STYLE,--it happens in the u.k. ----start it at an early age--home-school- sunday school, and not forgetting aunts and uncles had a role to play. Here in general kids show no respect to parents-police-WHY-they are not given it early-so they don't know how to show it.

I hear ya', and IMO the canes would mostly only come into use with kids whose parents were neglecting (or over spoiling) their kids. In those cases the kids and the parents should have to live with their choices and take their medicine.

[coma]

IMO.Caning a child is just an outlet for teachers to vent thier frustration and anger. The only good that can come of reintroducing it would be that the teachers will not go home after work and kick the dog and yell at the wife.

It is not reintroducing it. It never left Thai Government schools. However, it makes little difference with class size of 50 students. 20 to 30 is OK. 40 is bad and 50 is a lost cause unless you split the class into four and have a teacher or student teacher or bully or someone in each quarter knocking heads to keep them quiet while you teach one quarter. Except for rote learning you can't teach large classes in the lower grades. In college you can have a lecture hall with a 1000 students no problem. The students are paying for the education and keep quiet and listen. But not grade school or high school.

Cool!

[jobsworth]

The problem with caning or the threat of it is that it induces fear in young children.

From this threat of fear comes violence, the very thing that it is 'meant' to prevent.

Fear does not reduce violence. It only creates violence.

If as a teacher you cannot command respect go away and do something else.

Pupils will obey their teachers if they respect them otherwise not.

The unruly pupil is only doing what the others would like to do but does not dare to do.

The unruly pupil is the brave one.

Physical violence against children has long been abolished in western societies

and quite rightly so.

Edited January 16, 2011 by jobsworth

[coma]

The problem with caning or the threat of it is that it induces fear in young children.

From this threat of fear comes violence, the very thing that it is 'meant' to prevent.

Fear does not reduce violence. It only creates violence.

If as a teacher you cannot command respect go away and do something else.

Pupils will obey their teachers if they respect them otherwise not.

The unruly pupil is only doing what the others would like to do but does not dare to do.

The unruly pupil is the brave one.

Physical violence against children has long been abolished in western societies

and quite rightly so.

Absolutely agree with that.

[mark45y]

The problem with caning or the threat of it is that it induces fear in young children.

From this threat of fear comes violence, the very thing that it is 'meant' to prevent.

Fear does not reduce violence. It only creates violence.

If as a teacher you cannot command respect go away and do something else.

Pupils will obey their teachers if they respect them otherwise not.

The unruly pupil is only doing what the others would like to do but does not dare to do.

The unruly pupil is the brave one.

Physical violence against children has long been abolished in western societies

and quite rightly so.

My father and his father and myself all went to the same Catholic school with the same priests. They all had the same standard of discipline. Gramps, and Dad and myself never hit one of our children except for the occasional swat but not anything one would call corporal punishment. So that is three generations of experience with corporal punishment with no violent side effects. Class size 40 students.

All of the Thai children I taught were all used to corporal punishment except from the English teacher who was forbidden to use corporal punishment (after a couple of terms and the staff knew me they gave me a stick and told me to hit the kids if I wanted to but I never did).

In my experience a lot the unruly students were retarded or mentally handicapped in one way or another. Some were older students held back and made to repeat a grade. Some were not able to perform to the same level as their peers for one reason or another. Some were on drugs. None of them were brave. They were little punks who were usually also the class bullies and struck the smaller and weaker children. They were also the boys who continually beat up the girls. Hardly brave, little macho twits getting ready to be the Thai wife beater on the evening news.

[catwho]

I taught for 38 years in the UK state system. Corporal punishment was allowed and my lessons were successful - my students though I was 'inspirational.' I used the sanction sparingly. In the 70s it was taken away. Since then discipline in schools has spiralled downwards; assaults on teachers are up; exams are made easier to cope with the generally lower level of learning. Britain's society has become increasingly violent and less caring. At the same time millions of pounds are invested in extra counselling; more personal tutoring; more communication with parents; more positive and constructive reporting. All this money could be saved for the cost of second hand size 9 gym shoes + permission from UK's privately educated ministers to use these shoes.

I reckon the whole process would take ten years to get Broken Britain back on track - even allowing for slow learners.

totaly agree, same of OZ.

[marquess]

I taught for 38 years in the UK state system. Corporal punishment was allowed and my lessons were successful - my students though I was 'inspirational.' I used the sanction sparingly. In the 70s it was taken away. Since then discipline in schools has spiralled downwards; assaults on teachers are up; exams are made easier to cope with the generally lower level of learning. Britain's society has become increasingly violent and less caring. At the same time millions of pounds are invested in extra counselling; more personal tutoring; more communication with parents; more positive and constructive reporting. All this money could be saved for the cost of second hand size 9 gym shoes + permission from UK's privately educated ministers to use these shoes.

I reckon the whole process would take ten years to get Broken Britain back on track - even allowing for slow learners.

totaly agree, same of OZ.

Here Here!

[swerver]

They should cane adults as well. It won't help in a lot of cases, as plenty of folks have been slowly 'caned' (or more like have had the will crushed out of them) all of their lives, but it will help as a deterrence for those who aren't yet completely jaded by the system.

As a child in the 50s we got caned, but it wasn,t for bad behaviour really, it was for treading on rose gardens, or fighting in the playground, or talking in class. Our discipline was taught from a baby, not hardly verbal, a look from dad was enough to put fear into you. IT'S got to be taught at HOME, correction-with love, right and wrong, the black and white, the good and the evil,--I used to hear parents say if you don't behave i'll go and get a black man-or a policeman. That is not good-but in them days it worked. Where most kids get wrong is when you get non caring adults, allowing their spoilt kids to run amock

, here they call it FREE STYLE,--it happens in the u.k. ----start it at an early age--home-school- sunday school, and not forgetting aunts and uncles had a role to play. Here in general kids show no respect to parents-police-WHY-they are not given it early-so they don't know how to show it. ...........thats my twopence-worth.could be worth ten bob if they would listen. to add we had good respectable police always having time to come to our school to help.and advise. School was good. Me,Graham Taylor ,Tony Jacklin, those were the days, learn from them times, we have to go back a long way -and start again.

As a child in the thirties we DIDN’T get caned.

So by the fifties you did get caned. This shows kid control was already starting to get out of control and obviously they were trying to get it back under control by caning. Sixty years later it shows caning didn’t do the job because now kids are even more unruly. Why? Just look around, parental control is totally missing because both parents are chasing economic goals of which the goal posts are constantly being reset further down the field. By the time both parents are home – which isn’t too often – they are too tired of their day long - 12 and more hours – pursuit of money so they collapse in front of the idiot box called TV and let the kids fend for themselves.

For much of Thailand’s population, being Thai is culturally much easier today than it ever was in the past, for this identification no longer involves commonly accepted standards of behavior or belief. Existentially, however, being Thai is far more problematic, for now it is as much a quest as it is a condition.

[mark45y]

Perhaps I should have said, I never got caned. Whipped by the long leather straps that hung around the waist and down to the floor of the priests cassock and whacked by long sturdy pointers and hit by thrown erasers and slugged by fists but not caned. The nuns in grade school used to slap a lot.

As I remember in the US public schools in the 50's and 60's there was no corporal punishment allowed. But schools were managed by municipalities and not the federal government. In other words a local school board determined policy rather then a federal agency.

[coma]

Perhaps I should have said, I never got caned. Whipped by the long leather straps that hung around the waist and down to the floor of the priests cassock and whacked by long sturdy pointers and hit by thrown erasers and slugged by fists but not caned. The nuns in grade school used to slap a lot.

As I remember in the US public schools in the 50's and 60's there was no corporal punishment allowed. But schools were managed by municipalities and not the federal government. In other words a local school board determined policy rather then a federal agency.

Nothing more pleasing to the ear than hearing the old blackboard eraser whistling passed ones ear. Knowing good and well that it missed the middle of your forehead.

Edited January 16, 2011 by coma

[Wallaby]

The problem with caning or the threat of it is that it induces fear in young children.

From this threat of fear comes violence, the very thing that it is 'meant' to prevent.

Fear does not reduce violence. It only creates violence.

If as a teacher you cannot command respect go away and do something else.

Pupils will obey their teachers if they respect them otherwise not.

The unruly pupil is only doing what the others would like to do but does not dare to do.

The unruly pupil is the brave one.

Physical violence against children has long been abolished in western societies

and quite rightly so.

I disagree completely. Fear is the only thing some children recognise and that's what keeps them in line. That is until they become more mature and the cane is put away. Logic and understanding does not compute with some and it is the cane, or fear of it, that has been shown to work in the past.

There is a push her in oz to bring back the physical violence (cane/strap) and it is growing momentum because of the children know they have rights and play on that, but they don't seem to understand that with those rights come responsibilities.

A good whack around the ear doesn't do harm and keeps them in line. Do it early and the fear of using can sometimes be enough to keep their mind on the job.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Wallaby

[Mario2008]

I have volunteered some time at a school where students got caned and probably still are. How did the students think about that? That teacher was year in year out by far the most popular teacher at the school. Simply because he was like a father to his students. If a student did soemthing wrong, he knew what he was getting into. If a student had a problem, he knew to whom he could go for help.

And that teacher tried to talk to his students like a fahter when they did wrong and he never punished because he liked it or to be mean.

The problem with corporal punishment is that it doesn't help that much and will lead to resentment. Unless they are punished by a person as above, whom they really respect. The problem is that you can't regulate that and if you allow corporal punishment you also allow abuse.

[coma]

"That is until they become more mature and the cane is put away."

The cane is only put away through fear that the mature student will take that cane off the teacher and shove it up their A##

[marc11864]

Others want teachers to cane because they themselves are too lazy and too insecure to properly discipline their child without caning.

It's a disgusting, barbaric act that has no place in the world today... period.

Edited January 16, 2011 by marc11864

[dcutman]

Actually I think there are much better forms of disipline than caning, but I was trying to stay on topic.

But it seems to me that there are far to many parents out there, that just dont want to spend the time with here kids and teach them how to act properly.

I bet that all of the respondents of this poll that favor caning of children, have unruly, disrespectful children of there own. It is more than likely that they were unruly and disrepectful when they were children.

I am not saying that teachers need tools for disipline they absolutly do. But I firmly believe the parents need to be responcible for there childrens actions.

One suggestion as a better form of penelty for an unruly kid. Make the parents go buy 25 liters of paint and both the kids and parents go paint a section of the school for a full weekend. Or maybe make them go pick up trash on and around the campus for a few weekends. The kid does not get back in school until these duties are done.

[Thaddeus]

The problem with caning or the threat of it is that it induces fear in young children.

From this threat of fear comes violence, the very thing that it is 'meant' to prevent.

Fear does not reduce violence. It only creates violence.

If as a teacher you cannot command respect go away and do something else.

Pupils will obey their teachers if they respect them otherwise not.

The unruly pupil is only doing what the others would like to do but does not dare to do.

The unruly pupil is the brave one.

Physical violence against children has long been abolished in western societies

and quite rightly so.

What utter rubbish.

There are three fairly common types of students.

Number 0ne. The ones that want to learn, the ones that want to get ahead, the ones that know that without a good education they are not going to achieve anything with their lives and will try their hardest to fit into this system.

They don't need disciplining ever.

Number Two. The ones that know that they are not destined for greatness and are quite happy being mediocre, this is by far the largest group.

They may need a bit of a warning every now and again just to bring them in line with the rest of society, but a public flogging is not required.

Number three. The dweebs, the ner-brains, the mentalists, the ones who are either too lazy to manage to be average, or too dumb to realise that picking on others not in their intellectual bracket is not a good thing, they spend most of their time learning nothing and just being an interruption to the ones that want to learn, even the average ones.

With those you have a choice.... I would go with just removing them from the education system in general, you cannot talk to them, you cannot reason with them, the only thing they understand is "you do bad, you get hurt"

For most students, corporal punishment is not required to be administered, the threat is enough. The ones that do require it shouldn't even be in school.

Sod that violence begets violence, and teachers should be able to command respect nonsense. Some will always be violent and respect no one.

[philhal2]

Perhaps Thailand and others could benefit if they researched this topic. Corporal punishment has many ill effects. It is usually b/c adults i.e. parents/teachers etc do not have the cognitive ability to figure out how to aid the child/student to change behavior that a DUMB approach (hitting) is thought of and (unfortunately) used.

Researching this topic will result in the conclusion that our social system is out of control and cant be fixed by bullshit . Have a look at what it has taken in the few Western cities that have reduced crime , especially in good old US OF A , Strong laws and proper enforcement of strong punishment to make it safe for people to walk the streets .

I guess that your reasoning is not partially responsible for the uncontrollable population of vandals , muggers , rapists , bashers , bullies , glassers , violent <deleted> who crawl around in the darkness of western countries and destroy peoples lives , businesses and properties on a daily basis . The same cockroaches that the police dont arrest because nothing is ever done to resolve the violence and the degradation within western Societies .

There are only 2 things that humans respond to , REWARD and PUNISHMENT >

The problem is the more rewards you give the greedier the humans get and the greater the reward needs to be , until it is no longer enough and we have another repeat of the global financial monetary downfall ( CRISIS ) that is a direct result of greed and no controls .

PUNISHMENT needs to be only dealt out once with a severity to match the crime and a reduction is instantly seen .

Fear is the only thing that makes the majority of people do what is best for the society they live in . Fear of strong and just retribution that deters people from doing the wrong thing .

Remove the punishments and you have what we have in Australia , America , Europe , England and all so called civilised western countries today . The only people that are afraid are those that do the right thing , work hard and save their money etc , the others who steal , lie , vandalise , attack innocent people , murder , rape and cheat dont give a toss because nothing ever happens to them .There is always an exscuse why it isnt their fault . Who forced them to do the wrong thing ????

Lets just remove law and order all together and then we will all have equal rights and equal opportunity to take whatever we want and do whatever we want without worrying about consequences .Lets then see what is DUMB >

Return the power to a decent society by removing those who do not want to abide by that societies rules isolate them in remote areas or islands , then they can then create their own system and destroy whoever and whatever they want ? GOOD IDEA ???? No its not because the <deleted> who do this shit would have the do gooders to bring them back .

[tominbkk]

As a child in the 50s we got caned, but it wasn,t for bad behaviour really, it was for treading on rose gardens, or fighting in the playground, or talking in class. Our discipline was taught from a baby, not hardly verbal, a look from dad was enough to put fear into you. IT'S got to be taught at HOME, correction-with love, right and wrong, the black and white, the good and the evil,--I used to hear parents say if you don't behave i'll go and get a black man-or a policeman. That is not good-but in them days it worked.

I got into just as much trouble as the next kid, but my parents never had to resort to physical punishment. Time outs and groundings were enough for me. Many of my friends who were physically punished on a regualr basis by their parents became fighters, as they saw violence as being a reasonable way to get what they wanted. My parents taught me to think about my decisions, rather than whip me because of my decisions.

As such, I find physical abuse of children as sick and sadistic, and in my many years that I taught never had the need to resort to that kind of behavior.

[jackr]

when i took my 9yr old daughter to school one day ,lady teacher gave about 30 girls one wack across the bum,before class. ask daughter if she copped it ,yep she said everyone cops the cane,the school is i the country,near korat,.

<deleted>. For what! And where's the school, in a cave? I'm sure not even the Neanderthals would bash their kids for no reason. What an example that monkey of a teacher is setting.

I taught for 38 years in the UK state system. Corporal punishment was allowed and my lessons were successful - my students though I was 'inspirational.' I used the sanction sparingly. In the 70s it was taken away. Since then discipline in schools has spiralled downwards; assaults on teachers are up; exams are made easier to cope with the generally lower level of learning. Britain's society has become increasingly violent and less caring.

And do you think all of that is down to the cessation of caning or the downward spiral of society in general there? I think the latter. Look at TV programs there today (and how people speak to each other in general), the internet and all the crap that is open to all, violent computer games, every other pop song having folks <deleted> and blinding, on and on. Even if you brought back caning it wouldn't make one iota of difference how kids think and act, other than perhaps affirming to them that it's aright to hit people. It's all heading one way I'm afraid.

--

I certainly don't want some teacher hitting my kid and possibly scarring him (mentally as well as physically) because they think he's done something wrong. If it is bad enough for a caning, then the school can warn me and send the kid home.

[selftaopath]

Caning should never occur this is another example on misinformation that Thailand has.

Children don't need to be hit by parents or Teachers they need to be educated .

You are absolutely correct SaintofSilence. I wonder if any of these posters or abusers did as suggested, and did some research? They would have found out about Behavioral Support Plans. Schools/parents can implement these and IF the "team" of adults are consistent, a child's behavior will change. BSP's ARE effective in changing behavior. Have any of the abusers thought about anticedents? LOL Yes. These are important to be aware of and understand.

Also a child harbors anger for (in some cases a life time) as a result of being beaten. It is truely the ignorant and lazy who can not initiate a way of restricting what a child might want, but merely looks to beat a defenseless child and relieve their own personal frustration. And may I point out: When a parent/teacher argues with a child/student it's the adult figure who "looses."

All of you abusers might ask yourself this question when you physically beat a child: What am I teaching?

[Heng]

All of you abusers might ask yourself this question when you physically beat a child: What am I teaching?

The same thing that (ARMED) security guards at banks, police officers all over the city, border guards at the frontier are "teaching" when it gets to a certain point. Yes it's the lowest form of moral enforcement, but an awful lot of people seem to fall in line to it. And when you're dealing with the masses, it's sometimes difficult to sit everyone down for a heart to heart for every single instance of stepping out of bounds.