No Need For Curfew For Children Under 18 If Existing Thai Laws Are Obeyed

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

No need for a curfew if existing laws are obeyed

By The Nation

Published on January 16, 2011

People suspect 10pm curfew has been proposed to make up for lack of action and enforcement on various fronts

The mixed reaction to the police plan to get tough on wayward children under 18 after 10pm is well expected. The outcry has come from those who view the "curfew" measure as something extreme, while the plaudits revolve around the argument that 10pm is a time when kids should be at home. But haven't we been embroiled in this kind of debate before? And will this one be just another flash in the pan?

Alarmists see monsters in police uniform abusing this measure. Innocent children on the streets a bit late, it's foreseen, may be rounded up and become victims of extortion, or face even worse ordeals. Others less pessimistically view the measure as an issue of rights abuse. If you are 17 years and six months old and can't go to the cinema to watch a 7.30pm show because adults can't make society safe, is that fair?

Critics also point out that the measure only serves to highlight the failure to enforce existing rules. For example, people under 18 are already banned from bars, while Internet cafes face age-control and closing time regulations, and you have to be 18 to get a driver's licence. Parents can already be held legally responsible for what is deemed a delinquent juvenile gathering. Last but not least, what are "student police" doing?

It's all about enforcement. It always has been. And as far as the under-18 surveillance plan is concerned, it will also come down to that. Society should feel safe and grateful if dutiful policemen are always there to check out kids' night-time activities. As long as enforcement is efficient, flexible and reasonable, that is.

Any form of "social order" is often met with an uproar. When former interior minister Purachai Piumsombun initiated a crackdown on late-night drinking, the campaign received more bricks than flowers. Criticism stemmed partly from the same resentment - that drinkers were being punished for authorities' failure to enforce other laws, such as those on drunk driving.

Society in a safe environment, where everyone strictly abides by the laws, should not be too worried if teenagers come home at 10.30pm or a little later. The renewed attempts to mount surveillance of those under 18 years old, it seems, are related to widespread drug abuse, violations of drinking age and the prevalence of accidents and crimes during the night. That's a major reason why many in the public feel bitter about it.

We don't have a problem with youngsters coming under surveillance or being monitored if it's part of long-term, systematic efforts to solve such problems. But if this is introduced as a knee-jerk reaction because the authorities are overwhelmed by drug abuse, violations of drinking age, under-age driving and night crimes, then the surveillance measure will be nothing but a lame effort to sweep more serious problems under the rug.

City life makes 10pm a fairly difficult "curfew", especially in Bangkok. In addition to that, 17 or 18 is a "borderline" age, where kids are getting to know new friends, adapting to a new educational environment or being engaged in special interest activities like dance practice or community service. This means flexibility is required. But at the same time the authorities must not let flexibility degenerate into complacency.

So, the critics should not overreact and the authorities must prove that measures like this are not a result of them under-acting on other fronts. If this marks the beginning of collective social efforts to fight social deterioration, the people will understand that something has got to give. But if this turns out to be a desperate, last-ditch move, society, like the kids that police try to rein in, will find out and subsequently revolt.

-- The Nation 2011-01-16

[jonclark]

Just who is going to enforce this law??? Utter joke - how many police do you see 'on the beat' on or after 10pm on a Saturday night? Very few and should the few that are on duty be rounding up children, who may or may not be doing anything wrong? Or would their time be better spent trying to stop people over 18 drinking and driving? All questions which need answers before we chastise the entire child and teenage population for the failings of the adults.

BTW what is the student police?

[Kron]

I would certainly agree to enforcing the existing laws. For me this Metropolitan Police directive has gone too far and something of this scale should be subject to a vote by Government.

[reason1]

If the existing laws can't be enforced, and they are not, seems pointless making new ones.

"people under 18 are already banned from bars, while Internet cafes face age-control and closing time regulations, and you have to be 18 to get a driver's licence."

[gotlost]

It's all about corruption by the authorizes.

[Misterwhisper]

The point, I believe, is that the public are already suggesting that such a law would be only providing the police with (yet another) channel to fill their pockets. So much for the utterly devastating reputation the BiB have among those they are supposed to "protect and serve". Needless to say that this reputation, sadly, is entirely deserved.

[OzMick]

The TAN Network quoted the existing law "Children and Teenager Protection Act B.E. 2546" which allows the Minister to decree regulations such as this curfew. They seem well within the powers granted under the law which aims to ensure the safety AND future prospects of thai children.

You can't get an education if you don't get enough sleep, and school isn't the place for sleeping. When my daughters were younger they had a classmate who sold flowers every night, and the teachers allowed her to sleep at class, despite this being a clear case of child abuse.

If they do start to enforce this, and it's a big if, what real harm will be done? If they had started 6 months earlier, 9 people might still be alive.

[jayjay0]

I am now 69 and have a different perspective on right and wrong than when I was young.

However 16 would be a much sensible age if they could and would enforce it, 17 and 18 are far different than 16.

[corkman]

curfew my arse - during the red-shirt curfew a few months back I was down in Cowboy until 1-2pm, after which I walked out to asoke and got in a cab...... who drove me home..... and my house is right next to a district nick......

so, the metrpolitan police force are going to mobilise and enforce that gem of a plan...... genius.

I wonder will this be enforced with the same vigor as the state-of-emergency ban of 5 or more people in public places.......

this kind of slap-stick humour is just getting boring...... well it has for some time now.......

Oh yeah - and that point about there already being mechanism in place to stop kids getting into trouble like not being allowed to have driving licenses for example...... I like the way they came down like a tonne of bricks on that 16yr old girl in the honda civic a few weeks ago...... they've really set and example there.

Really, its just stupid, and I mean STUPID in its psychological definition sense, making laws that will be broken and will not be enforced....... it demeans any semblence of integrity that the other laws have, and just highligts curruption and incompetence.

TIT

BTW - I wonder how this would apply to my 4yr old? Madam, how old are you? I'm 4 and a half sir. Did you willingly and knowingly participate in a violation of the curfew? Sorry sir, I left my watch at home, I didn't know. that is extreme tongue-in-cheek...... I know it doesn't apply like that...... but it makes as much sense as the proposed law, right?

Edited January 16, 2011 by corkman

[phaethon]

But... but.. but... if they do enforce the curfew, who will clean the windows of my taxi at Asoke at 1am? However will I get home with dirty taxi windows?

[housepainter]

If.

If .............. I was my mother's lover I wouldn't be my mother's son.

If.

If existing laws .................................... Thailand has all the laws it ever needs but fails to apply any of them.

So they invent a few more, and ignore a few more.

It's chocolate fireguard think tank no brainer time. Let them get on with it. As, when they don't do anything they are useless and when they give it their best shot they are useless.

Don't expect anything of them other a mess in triplicate and a long wait.

Next. Why? Followed by when.

[CWMcMurray]

If the existing laws can't be enforced, and they are not, seems pointless making new ones.

"people under 18 are already banned from bars, while Internet cafes face age-control and closing time regulations, and you have to be 18 to get a driver's licence."

That's because the people in charge of making new laws are not the ones who enforce them... there is pressure to "do something" and it is much easier to make a new law rather than to take on the BiB and force them to enforce the current laws that are already on the books.

This is a knee jerk reaction to the under age girl driving a car illegally and causing an accident that killed 9 people.... but she was already breaking the law by driving and how would a curfew have prevented this? Simple answer, it would.t have prevented this accident. Do you think that some one who who would drive a car without a license would have any problems with going out after curfew?

[BigC]

thats clever. like saying there wouldd be no need for police if people did not brake the law. or if there was no war then we would not need an army. or if we all shared then we would not need money drrrr

[philhal2]

If.

If .............. I was my mother's lover I wouldn't be my mother's son.

If.

If existing laws .................................... Thailand has all the laws it ever needs but fails to apply any of them.

So they invent a few more, and ignore a few more.

It's chocolate fireguard think tank no brainer time. Let them get on with it. As, when they don't do anything they are useless and when they give it their best shot they are useless.

Don't expect anything of them other a mess in triplicate and a long wait.

Next. Why? Followed by when.

They are just taking advice from the good old Westerners and the Europeans , they have lots of laws to and they show them to Thailand , but they never enforce them either . This accounts for the massive growth rate of violence , drug related crimes , good one for getting away with anything in the west , Sorry your honour I was off my face . The Bullshit that rolls out of the western mouths when there is so much more crime , corruption and violence in their own countries is the Joke .

Show me one western country that is not 10 times more corrupt than Thailand !!!

Dont lie to me either ,

I know better than to listen to starry eyed bullshit , even if its about good old Aussie that is probably 10 times less corrupt than the yanks , the English and the Europeans . But it is still 10 times more corrupt than the Thais know how to be . Maybe its just because Westerners are so good at it that 20 million Aussies can be more corrupt than 60 million Thais ???

Call me dissolusioned or whatever but for the sake of commonsense in all of this take a reality check before you put so much crap on the Thai people . They are a million miles in front of most with good manners , hard work and national pride in their effort to make something worthwhile for the people . But just like everything else , the westerners try to pull it down and destroy it .

Well I often offer people their plane fare back to where they came from when they dont want to improve things in my home country .

I think Thailand would be a lot better off if it forced people who want to stay there to become citizens within 12 months or they put them on a plane and send them back to wherever they came from .

But they probably dont want to return to something they have already escaped from ??

[ciggy6344]

If.

If .............. I was my mother's lover I wouldn't be my mother's son.

If.

If existing laws .................................... Thailand has all the laws it ever needs but fails to apply any of them.

So they invent a few more, and ignore a few more.

It's chocolate fireguard think tank no brainer time. Let them get on with it. As, when they don't do anything they are useless and when they give it their best shot they are useless.

Don't expect anything of them other a mess in triplicate and a long wait.

Next. Why? Followed by when.

They are just taking advice from the good old Westerners and the Europeans , they have lots of laws to and they show them to Thailand , but they never enforce them either . This accounts for the massive growth rate of violence , drug related crimes , good one for getting away with anything in the west , Sorry your honour I was off my face . The Bullshit that rolls out of the western mouths when there is so much more crime , corruption and violence in their own countries is the Joke .

Show me one western country that is not 10 times more corrupt than Thailand !!!

Dont lie to me either ,

I know better than to listen to starry eyed bullshit , even if its about good old Aussie that is probably 10 times less corrupt than the yanks , the English and the Europeans . But it is still 10 times more corrupt than the Thais know how to be . Maybe its just because Westerners are so good at it that 20 million Aussies can be more corrupt than 60 million Thais ???

Call me dissolusioned or whatever but for the sake of commonsense in all of this take a reality check before you put so much crap on the Thai people . They are a million miles in front of most with good manners , hard work and national pride in their effort to make something worthwhile for the people . But just like everything else , the westerners try to pull it down and destroy it .

Well I often offer people their plane fare back to where they came from when they dont want to improve things in my home country .

I think Thailand would be a lot better off if it forced people who want to stay there to become citizens within 12 months or they put them on a plane and send them back to wherever they came from .

But they probably dont want to return to something they have already escaped from ??

This is a complete load of rubbish. The difference her is that corruption and coplete non compliance with the law, here is usually admired no looked down upon and I know that if people are found currupt in England there would be a public outcry and in the minimum instance, the person would either resign or if charged, go to court. Here in Thailand, people rarely do the right thing, usually they do the EASY thing whether its driving, smoking in a non smoking area, going the wrong way on the road, wearing a crash helmet etc. etc. Don't misundersatnd me, I have been here nearly 24 years and love thailand. It seems to me most foreigners here feel the same as me and want Thai's to love Thailand as much as us.

[bangon04]

Re the OP

It's quite true of course - if they check the official statistics they will see straight away that the majority of teenagers are quite capable of having sex before 10 pm.

Likewise maybe they should take a Dusit Poll on what percentage of unwanted pregnancies were conceived before the magic hour.

Edited January 17, 2011 by bangon04

[surangw]

another minor law that is ignored ( no money in it for those that have to "enforce" it )

[powderpuff]

Boy you got that right.

The other week the latest pronouncement out of the government was that they were gonna crack down on the abuse of red plates on new cars. Really? Believe it when I see it . Post 15 is spot on. People see it as a game. Postpone paying your taxes for as long as humanly possible. Show the neighbor guy how clever you are. See I have kept this red plate for 9 months & I hope to run it for 9 more.

Me king of the jungle & middle finger to you cops.