Congratulations And Brickbats

[visions]

Saturday evening I rode into Bang Saen Chonburi and stopped at the 7 close to the beach. A few minutes later a group of young 20 ish Thai guys pulled up behind me on NSR150s plus a couple of Kwakers. All the bikes were immaculately presented except for one who had obviously found the limit on a right hand corner with scrapes on the paint.. The riders all had good proper riding gear on.

It was a great site to see and I just couldnt help myself spontaneously commenting to the guy nearest to me about the good presentation by all of them.

Maybe 20min later I wanted to leave but the group had blocked me in. One of the guys noticed and they all came running to make my way clear again. So polite and good manners. They left me with a very good impression of what "can" happen with educated riders.

Now in Direct contrast.....last week I was driving home and a BiB stepped out and stopped the traffic flow outside a school. (obviously a daily occurrence)

With the BiB standing there, with helmet on, but strap not done up......he let a gaggle of seemed like hundreds of motorbikes with student riders flow out of the school gates. Out of all the riders, there were a few only, had helmets on.......many were 3 and 4 up on the bikes, and I guarantee 99% were not old enough to get a license.

What a classic way to educate the kids that the road rules are irrelevant!!

It would be so easy as they are all stopped at the gate, to only allow only those that are legally able to ride, out the gate.

A matter of 2 or 3 days and there would be compliance with the rules. maybe confiscating the bike for a few days plus compulsory shock video (and compulsory also for the parents to attend) of what happens in accidents where the riders were not wearing helmets, Im sure soon bring compliance with the rules.

The kids are educated to turn up to school and wearing the correct uniform per day, what is so hard about teaching them how to save their own lives!! Far far better and more long lasting productive road safety, than those stupid road stalls set up at New Year etc.

But then.....we all know......TIT

[Kwasaki]

I wonder if someone could pin this reply :-

Being a foreigner here you should keep your own countries purgatory rules where they belong.

This is Thailand they are Thai people and you are not.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Kwasaki

[bobbin]

I wonder if someone could pin this reply :-

Being a foreigner here you should keep your own countries purgatory rules where they belong.

This is Thailand they are Thai people and you are not.

I'm sorry but your reply is not worthy of being pinned.

The school is an excellent place to educate young people, wouldn't you say?

Even if we accept that we are in Thailand (not Kansas), and that 11 year-olds are operating motor vehicles on public roads, it's not over the top to require those 11 year-olds to wear helmets and restrict them to rider and 1 pillion passenger.

Now, about that signature of yours....

Aren't the 2 statements contradictory? On the one hand you praise everlasting monogamy and in the next breath, you are going to the ATM because you luv bar-girls too much....

Kind of like 2 people in the same head!

[ScubaBuddha]

You're talking about the difference between people that choose to ride for fun and take pride in it and people that have to ride by necessity. I agree, Thai riders that I have met, such as those you have described, are some of the kindest and courteous people I have met.

What most of us farang don't know is that traditionally the police, unofficially and sometimes officially make hardship concessions concerning some laws particularly in the provinces. Similar to the way some states in America allow children as young as 13 working and living in farming communities to have a drivers license. Another example: a year or so ago a police commander in Chalong was quoted in Phuket Gazette saying that the police allow the illegal Samlors (motorbike with sidecar) to drive the roads of Phuket as long as they had lights on the sidecar because to enfoce the ban on them would be too much of a hardship on the locals.

In many, but not all areas of Thailand kids are allowed to drive only to and from school unlicensed, helmet-less and with multiple people on a bike. That's the way it has always been and old habits are hard to break. The idea is it's better to have them going to school than not because they can't afford it or have no transportation.

[Kwasaki]

I wonder if someone could pin this reply :-

Being a foreigner here you should keep your own countries purgatory rules where they belong.

This is Thailand they are Thai people and you are not.

I'm sorry but your reply is not worthy of being pinned.

The school is an excellent place to educate young people, wouldn't you say?

Even if we accept that we are in Thailand (not Kansas), and that 11 year-olds are operating motor vehicles on public roads, it's not over the top to require those 11 year-olds to wear helmets and restrict them to rider and 1 pillion passenger.

Now, about that signature of yours....

Aren't the 2 statements contradictory? On the one hand you praise everlasting monogamy and in the next breath, you are going to the ATM because you luv bar-girls too much....

Kind of like 2 people in the same head!

Yes, maybe my post was bit blunt but wasn't meant to be derogatry.

OK !! lets just say we agree to disagree to me what you say is still dictating from another culture.

What I am trying to say I guess is I like the freedom of Thailand and the attitude to the little Moped's and scooters as I call em, and yeah !! I wish the Thai kids were trained as well as my sons, there's many dangers out there on Thai roads that the kids are unaware of.

Now getting to my signature, I can see how you see it but they're separate sentences.

The first one is a fireman's saying and is about comradeship in the line of duty.

The second one is just a joke at my expense but honest about liking the girls in question as company.

[Zzinged]

Being a foreigner here you should keep your own countries purgatory rules where they belong.

This is Thailand they are Thai people and you are not.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think there are rules in Thailand regarding the minimum age for someone to hold a driver's license of any sort. I am 100% sure that there is a mandatory helmet law in Thailand. So really, visions wasn't saying anything that didn't apply to Thailand already.

[visions]

Being a foreigner here you should keep your own countries purgatory rules where they belong.

This is Thailand they are Thai people and you are not.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think there are rules in Thailand regarding the minimum age for someone to hold a driver's license of any sort. I am 100% sure that there is a mandatory helmet law in Thailand. So really, visions wasn't saying anything that didn't apply to Thailand already.

My main point was all about education. No comparison of Thai and Western standards given or intended. Certainly no Thai bashing. my comments based on concern about lack of education.

The first example being a group of young guys self educated to not only obey the existing Thai traffic laws of wearing helmets but further, wearing proper riding gear. I have no idea how far they had ridden, maybe they were local guys?? Maybe they had come some distance I dont know. But a great example set.

The school example. The school was in an affluent area, All (from casual observation) the bikes were new or very late model Honda or Yamahas, no clapped out 2 smokers for sure!! ( I have lived in rural areas of NE Isaan and know what happens there and yes to some extent agree about the blind eye, although that promotes double standards)

Many, Id say the majority of passengers had the modern infiction of hand clasped over the ear.... and you can be sure they were not 600 B mobiles they had. If parents can provide that standard of transport, the very least they could do is provide a helmet also. Maybe they had? But the kids choose not wear??

If the parents wont or cannot educate their own kids on road safety, then the next step is in the schools. As yes that is done in my western birth country. thats called education.

But by letting the kids out on the road like I witnessed, is condoning fragrent flouting of many Thai laws. In fact actually Teaching the kids its ok to flout any law, any time they like.

A recent example is the 16y old girl on the Bkk expressway responsible in some part for the deaths of 9 people. How would you feel if it were one of your loved ones that had been taken from you because of the lawless action by an underage, inexperienced, unlicensed driver? and because she had never been taught to respect the law.

If the kids are not educated to respect Thai laws that behaviour is to be expected forever.

If the kids are educated to respect the law, then in one generation much of the population will respect the law and policing then becomes a secondary issue only.

I know from experience that in Khon kaen city all persons on a m/bike need wear a helmet and that is enforced ridgedly, as is only 2 to a bike. Regardless of age.

It is rare to see anyone riding without a helmet there....well untill the BIB have stopped work anyway.

In the villages ...a different story sure!

I have seen video and photos of cases where riders were not wearing helmets, very gruesome indeed seeing half a head missing etc. I wouldnt wish that on anyone, certainly no parents should be forced to see their kids in that condition, just because nobody bothered to educate their kids!!

[Sonkind]

Being a foreigner here you should keep your own countries purgatory rules where they belong.

This is Thailand they are Thai people and you are not.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think there are rules in Thailand regarding the minimum age for someone to hold a driver's license of any sort. I am 100% sure that there is a mandatory helmet law in Thailand. So really, visions wasn't saying anything that didn't apply to Thailand already.

My main point was all about education. No comparison of Thai and Western standards given or intended. Certainly no Thai bashing. my comments based on concern about lack of education.

The first example being a group of young guys self educated to not only obey the existing Thai traffic laws of wearing helmets but further, wearing proper riding gear. I have no idea how far they had ridden, maybe they were local guys?? Maybe they had come some distance I dont know. But a great example set.

The school example. The school was in an affluent area, All (from casual observation) the bikes were new or very late model Honda or Yamahas, no clapped out 2 smokers for sure!! ( I have lived in rural areas of NE Isaan and know what happens there and yes to some extent agree about the blind eye, although that promotes double standards)

Many, Id say the majority of passengers had the modern infiction of hand clasped over the ear.... and you can be sure they were not 600 B mobiles they had. If parents can provide that standard of transport, the very least they could do is provide a helmet also. Maybe they had? But the kids choose not wear??

If the parents wont or cannot educate their own kids on road safety, then the next step is in the schools. As yes that is done in my western birth country. thats called education.

But by letting the kids out on the road like I witnessed, is condoning fragrent flouting of many Thai laws. In fact actually Teaching the kids its ok to flout any law, any time they like.

A recent example is the 16y old girl on the Bkk expressway responsible in some part for the deaths of 9 people. How would you feel if it were one of your loved ones that had been taken from you because of the lawless action by an underage, inexperienced, unlicensed driver? and because she had never been taught to respect the law.

If the kids are not educated to respect Thai laws that behaviour is to be expected forever.

If the kids are educated to respect the law, then in one generation much of the population will respect the law and policing then becomes a secondary issue only.

I know from experience that in Khon kaen city all persons on a m/bike need wear a helmet and that is enforced ridgedly, as is only 2 to a bike. Regardless of age.

It is rare to see anyone riding without a helmet there....well untill the BIB have stopped work anyway.

In the villages ...a different story sure!

I have seen video and photos of cases where riders were not wearing helmets, very gruesome indeed seeing half a head missing etc. I wouldnt wish that on anyone, certainly no parents should be forced to see their kids in that condition, just because nobody bothered to educate their kids!!

Personally I think you can educate all you want ,but looking at myself as an example in most cases it does not make a difference, when I was 16 my parent bought me a 150 kawa for good grades etc, my father had owned many bikes and I was well educated in wearing protective gear. But despite that as soon as me and my friends left school we took off our helmets and did all kinds of stupid things with our bikes.

It wasn't until my best friend totaled a VW golf with his TZR125 that I woke up, and even then I was seen as a mama's boy for wearing full protective gear going to school(by the other bike riders not my friends) . Point is this was at the so called top Afrikaans Private school in South Africa and I was well educated on the hazards but still chose to ride without a helmet at very dangerous speeds. My parents never knew and were shocked when I told them the truth about 10 years after.

Would some grusome images have put me off? I dont think so as we are all numb to things like that (unfortunately they did not help for my smoking habit).

I would never let my kids ride a bike until they are mature enough but that is purely because of my experiences, but many of these parents may not have a clue what their kids are doing, and I think that educating them will not make a difference(sex-ed help any of you?).

[Kwasaki]

Being a foreigner here you should keep your own countries purgatory rules where they belong.

This is Thailand they are Thai people and you are not.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think there are rules in Thailand regarding the minimum age for someone to hold a driver's license of any sort. I am 100% sure that there is a mandatory helmet law in Thailand. So really, visions wasn't saying anything that didn't apply to Thailand already.

My main point was all about education. No comparison of Thai and Western standards given or intended. Certainly no Thai bashing. my comments based on concern about lack of education.

The first example being a group of young guys self educated to not only obey the existing Thai traffic laws of wearing helmets but further, wearing proper riding gear. I have no idea how far they had ridden, maybe they were local guys?? Maybe they had come some distance I dont know. But a great example set.

The school example. The school was in an affluent area, All (from casual observation) the bikes were new or very late model Honda or Yamahas, no clapped out 2 smokers for sure!! ( I have lived in rural areas of NE Isaan and know what happens there and yes to some extent agree about the blind eye, although that promotes double standards)

Many, Id say the majority of passengers had the modern infiction of hand clasped over the ear.... and you can be sure they were not 600 B mobiles they had. If parents can provide that standard of transport, the very least they could do is provide a helmet also. Maybe they had? But the kids choose not wear??

If the parents wont or cannot educate their own kids on road safety, then the next step is in the schools. As yes that is done in my western birth country. thats called education.

But by letting the kids out on the road like I witnessed, is condoning fragrent flouting of many Thai laws. In fact actually Teaching the kids its ok to flout any law, any time they like.

A recent example is the 16y old girl on the Bkk expressway responsible in some part for the deaths of 9 people. How would you feel if it were one of your loved ones that had been taken from you because of the lawless action by an underage, inexperienced, unlicensed driver? and because she had never been taught to respect the law.

If the kids are not educated to respect Thai laws that behaviour is to be expected forever.

If the kids are educated to respect the law, then in one generation much of the population will respect the law and policing then becomes a secondary issue only.

I know from experience that in Khon kaen city all persons on a m/bike need wear a helmet and that is enforced ridgedly, as is only 2 to a bike. Regardless of age.

It is rare to see anyone riding without a helmet there....well untill the BIB have stopped work anyway.

In the villages ...a different story sure!

I have seen video and photos of cases where riders were not wearing helmets, very gruesome indeed seeing half a head missing etc. I wouldnt wish that on anyone, certainly no parents should be forced to see their kids in that condition, just because nobody bothered to educate their kids!!

Yes everyone has very different opinions from many levels for the want of a better expression.

I find many people are scared of bikes and see them as nothing more than dangerous, in my opinion I feel safer on a bike than I do in a car because I can get the hell out of a situation a darn sight quicker if any one can follow, such is my logic.