Elderly Foreginers A Heavy Burden For Thai Hospitals

[personchester]

The simple/sensible solution would be to require all retiree's in Thailand to have valid medical insurance as part of the visa issue/renewal process, no insurance no renewal of visa....its that simple.

It is completely beyond me why someone would live in a foreign country, with no access/right to "free" medical treatment and not have medical insurance even at a basic level

I couldn't agree more. Not just the elderly, but many foreigners of all ages just love to live in Thailand burning the candle at both ends and living well beyong thier means.

The Thais refer to these individuals as "Farang Khee Nok ฝรั่งขี้นก". Which literally means " Bird shit Foriegner.

Then all of a sudden. Medical emergency! Ohh! No money to pay the medical bills. Next minute those close to these sorry individuals have the hide to pass the hat around looking for donations to bail these guys out. I have seen this too many times to count over the years.If you run out of money and cannot finance yourself for ANY situation that may arise whilst abroad, then I am sorry but it is time to face reality and GO HOME!!!! These <deleted> are what gives foreigners a bad name here in Thailand. One more time. GO HOME!!!! :jap:

Your reply appears to indicates that you are in a "COMA"

[Soutpeel]

The simple/sensible solution would be to require all retiree's in Thailand to have valid medical insurance as part of the visa issue/renewal process, no insurance no renewal of visa....its that simple.

It is completely beyond me why someone would live in a foreign country, with no access/right to "free" medical treatment and not have medical insurance even at a basic level

I couldn't agree more. Not just the elderly, but many foreigners of all ages just love to live in Thailand burning the candle at both ends and living well beyong thier means.

The Thais refer to these individuals as "Farang Khee Nok ฝรั่งขี้นก". Which literally means " Bird shit Foriegner.

Then all of a sudden. Medical emergency! Ohh! No money to pay the medical bills. Next minute those close to these sorry individuals have the hide to pass the hat around looking for donations to bail these guys out. I have seen this too many times to count over the years.If you run out of money and cannot finance yourself for ANY situation that may arise whilst abroad, then I am sorry but it is time to face reality and GO HOME!!!! These <deleted> are what gives foreigners a bad name here in Thailand. One more time. GO HOME!!!! :jap:

Your reply appears to indicates that you are in a "COMA"

And you repeat yourself.. ..next...

[jayboy]

Well we are all entitled to our views but I think you are the one who is completely wrong. It is not an accident of history – it is what it is, because for the time being they are satisfied with the current visa requirements - that they weed out most of the ‘dead beats’ with no money that they don’t want here.

If you are correct in your views, how is it that from time to time the requirements are changed? A couple of years back there was a big shake up of the so- called visa runners and even to those who held large deposits here which used to enable them to obtain an annual ‘investment’ visa. That visa no longer exists as before.

I believe they know exactly what they are doing, and are continually reviewing the requirements for retirement visas – hence the need to now hold the 800k in a bank for 3 months, whereas before it only had to be there on the day of visa renewal.

It is also very apparent that they are trying to get rid of the ‘marriage visa’ as they have realised that most people holding such visas are not contributing much to the Thai economy. They used to take the view that the men were taking care of a Thai family, but that view no longer prevails. Their current view seems to be that if you can’t fulfil the minimum requirements for a retirement visa – then ‘on your bike’.

But in spite of all this alleged anti 'dead- beat' or just general anti-foreigner sentiment, the 'powers that be' are smart enough to read their own numbers,supplied to them by their Thai banks, of the amount of money that is remitted here by foreign 'residents' and also as many of those 'powers' are also businessmen in such sectors as property, housing etc, they do understand the contribution that well off foreigners make to their businesses and to the country in general.

They want to keep the rich, high spending ones here (as do most countries), and get rid of the rest.

As I said in my previous post, be warned, for I am sure the retirement visa requirements will be cranked up a notch or two in the not too distant future.

You say you disagree with me but your supporting arguments (tightening up for example on retirement visa criteria) go in an opposite direction, mine.By the way I never said that rich foreigners aren't very welcome;they are and always will be.

Arkady recently explained the context very well:

"I understand the concept of the trickle down effect in economics but I also understand the concept of moving up the value added ladder in the way that Singapore took a policy decision to ditch the low value added assembly industries in the 80s, even though they were still contributing to aggregate demand at the time. It will be up to the Thai planners, if they have a mind to, to decide where they want be on the retirement business value added ladder in 25 years time and plan accordingly. Economics is not the only consideration. There is an official "national security" mindset that always takes the view that Thailand is a small country with limited resources that needs to protect itself from being swamped by foreigners of various type who might otherwise threaten Thai cultural values and crowd out the Thais. If they do stop to think about it, it is unlikely that continuing to go after the mass retirement market would be a winning argument that politicians would want to promote to the electorate. It is more likely that politicians will make hay out of measures to control the large and growing populations of foreigners who have settled permanently on temporary visa extensions without any quotas, checks on criminal records, tests of knowledge of Thai language and life in Thailand, medical insurance or good behaviour bonds, and with only subsistence level financial requirements. Even if the criminal elements are only a small minority, they do exist and attract a lot of negative publicity. It is not hard to imagine this aspect being highlighted as a reason to control things. Thailand's move in 1952 to limit Chinese immigration from thousands to only 100 people a year also brought out many arguments about the economic inadvisability of doing this to nil effect and the vast majority of non-Chinese Thais wholeheartedly supported the measure."

[personchester]

Another reason to only rent in Thailand.

Rent your home, rent your wife, rent your children.

When you are no longer welcome just leave and go somewhere else.

It doesn't matter if you are married, have children, have work, Thailand really doesn't want foreigners staying long time.

Let's face it, we all know we are not really wanted in this country. We should just accept that.

I'm not sure it's true that Thailand doesn't want foreigners staying long time, simply that foreign resident "retirees" should not be a drain on the country (at minimum) and (preferably) be relatively well off.

It's true that Thailand offers retirement visas but there's no official policy of encouraging foreigners to retire here.There is profound irritation at others who abuse Thailand's generous entry policy and either live permanently or even work here on the basis of a wholly inappropriate visa status.The whole visa run industry is a blatant defiance of the spirit if not the letter of the Thai law.In a word many influential Thais are frankly pissed off at the vast legion of poorly educated and modestly well off foreign "residents" that do nothing for the country but through their khi nok character bring the country's reputation down at a time when Thailand is looking to take its tourist industry upmarket.

Frankly if a resident, even if properly authorised, cannot afford gilt edged health insurance that covers all eventualities (or of course the wealth to cover all bills), he has no business being here at all.The reality however is that most of these people seem to think they have some sort of right to stay here permanently.Short answer is that they don't and the repercussions of their misunderstanding will become clear in due course.All the signs are already there.

All signs are already there ? ... please clarify.

[Bagwan]

I have lived in Thailand for ten years, settling here after trying out other locations. My inquiries about health insurance showed that in every case that the premiums were exorbitant and I have refused to pay them. I have met the costs of the medical attention that I and my Thai family have received from my exchequer and will continue to do so. To date I have shown a very healthy profit i.e. treatment costs have much much less than paying through the nose to carry insurance. His Majesty was right to point out the benefits of self sufficiency. After reaching the age of say 65 what is the point of health insurance anyway? Gathering together the costs of annual insurance premiums should generate enough worry and stress to finish anybody off anyway. Does anybody really expect or want to live for ever?

To the know-alls who had the misfortune to be citizens of countries other than the UK (I am referring to the UK of yesteryear) yet feel free to pontificate about the NHS let me tell you that senior citizens are not that well catered for. The chances of receiving heart replacement or other major and expensive treatments for anybody over the age of say 65 years are practically non-existent. Old people are regularly sent home to die so that money is available to treat those with a more useful life expectancy i.e. those who may return to their treadmill existence. My understanding is that committees made up of doctors, nurses, hospital administrators and social workers consider cases on a holistic level and make collective decisions. This procedure goes some way in applying sensible management and profitable allocation of resources and ameliorates any guilt felt by doctors being solely responsible for making life or death decisions. Long time smokers and near alcoholics get short shift I am happy to say. In my early 30's, ambitious and eager to climb into the ranks of corporate management, I drank to excess when socialising with the movers and shakers entry to whose preserves I hungered for and I put on weight until I was nearly three stones overweight. I ended up with a hiatus hernia. The thoracic surgeon told me to lose 30 pounds or it would be pointless exercise if he repaired the damage. When I went back to him, significantly slimmer, he told me to go away. Taken aback I asked him why and he said that I had just told him that I was playing the best golf of my life, I was humping the wife at least four times per week and that I had unbounded energy. Why should he interfere with that? He predicted that I would experience chest pains and acid reflux again when in my sixties. I pondered this and then said that I thought that the NHS Catch 22 solution was being applied. He nodded when I opined that when I came back at he age of 65 he would tell me to clear off again since I was now too old. Bingo! Hole in one! Of course if I wanted to pay .......................... But that is a different story.

I took a friend to the casualty department of our local hospital in the UK after he had tripped over on a badly maintained pavement. One of the questions he was asked was whether he had been drinking and had therefore contributed to his injury. There was a young man there creating a scene because he had been waiting an hour to have stitches inserted in a wound to his hand. In a fit of rage he had punched a window. He stormed out of the hospital mouthing that he would take himself off to a real hospital when he was told that his injury had been self inflicted and he would be attended to when more serious cases and those of people who had been blameless for their conditions had been treated.

Thus it appears that a selection process is in operation and this is accepted by the majority of the general populace. One alternative is that taxation would have to be increased and become more burdensome, a sure fire way of ensuring non reelection for the Government of the day of whatever complexion. Medical advances have been made that outstrip the country's ability to pay for them. It goes without saying that those who rail against apparent injustice are driven by self interest and cannot, or will not, take a broader view of the situation. It is a pity that their mouths are busier than their brains. Those who propound such inanities that you only live once and they are going to live their lives by burning the candle at both ends, can expect no compassion when their health fails. Whose fault is it when their livers finally complain at the treatment that the have endured? Or their lungs give up the ghost? Who made the bed that they now have to lie in?

Should those UK natives who cannot afford appropriate treatment for any ailment of injury here in Thailand return home there exists for those getting on in years the real possibility that nothing beyond making them comfortable will be done. With hospital beds at a premium being admitted to a hospital might be a good result. All that will be achieved in most cases is having the chance to select some place else to die.

In the case of Thailand I have an acquaintance whose family has a history of colonic cancer. He has an annual checkup. Rather than pay an arm and a leg, he mentioned 40K baht from one Pattaya hospital - you can guess which one - he takes himself down to the Queen Sirikit hospital at Sattahip. There he sees the same doctor as if he had parted with his hard earned and is charged 300 baht. He accepts that he has to wait until all the Thais have been seen to and fully accepts that it is justified. Do people need reminding that several thousand Thais die needlessly every year because of financial restraints both personal and administrative? Who can blame any Thai Government to put their own people first?

I believe that my life and how I live it is my concern and mine alone. I do not want any Government, and certainly not a corrupt one as we ex-pats do not enjoy, telling me that I have to have medical insurance. When I shuffle off I want to do so on my terms and not those of some avaricious doctor who insists on kick starting me back to life so that he can up his charges. My assets will be for my family and not go towards paying for a new BMW or Benz. Thailand is popular for many elderly folk because here they can afford to pay for a nice lady seeking regular dosh injections, who realises that she may have passed her sell by date, and who would willingly tend to and care for them. Such a service in the UK would be prohibitively expensive and more than likely be less than acceptable. I see many US guys who lost limbs in a senseless intervention in Vietnam, reviled on their return home, and have since been seemingly abandoned by their country. Would we see mass desertions from Thailand, a significant rise in the rate of suicides and a growth in the number of over stayers? Is that what the Thai Government want?

To the <deleted> unthinking young who have written their vitriolic crap here I would say that one day, if they are lucky, they may live to be old. Their opinions may have altered somewhat by then. It will be interesting to see how they adapt to a rapidly changing world, the deprecations of politicians and bankers, and rampant inflation. To the whining old 'uns, tough luck but you lost out. Life is like that, it is always unfair. Deal with it. Why not re-assess the phenomenon of death because you can't avoid it. I look upon it as a step into the unknown and my last great adventure.

[ginjag]

The simple/sensible solution would be to require all retiree's in Thailand to have valid medical insurance as part of the visa issue/renewal process, no insurance no renewal of visa....its that simple.

It is completely beyond me why someone would live in a foreign country, with no access/right to "free" medical treatment and not have medical insurance even at a basic level

I couldn't agree more. Not just the elderly, but many foreigners of all ages just love to live in Thailand burning the candle at both ends and living well beyong thier means.

The Thais refer to these individuals as "Farang Khee Nok ฝรั่งขี้นก". Which literally means " Bird shit Foriegner.

Then all of a sudden. Medical emergency! Ohh! No money to pay the medical bills. Next minute those close to these sorry individuals have the hide to pass the hat around looking for donations to bail these guys out. I have seen this too many times to count over the years.If you run out of money and cannot finance yourself for ANY situation that may arise whilst abroad, then I am sorry but it is time to face reality and GO HOME!!!! These <deleted> are what gives foreigners a bad name here in Thailand. One more time. GO HOME!!!! :jap:

Many people have grafted years to come and burn the candle at both ends, and hope they enjoy it, IF they do fall ill then they made their bed and have to lie in it. I,m neigther a Snob or bird sh+t and I would rather die than beg. It's Your attitude to someone who you thinks have no brains, that gives foreigners a bad name. Live and let live, enjoy, as long as it's not at others expence. As for your word ( 2 hats ) this sums up your character.

,

[personchester]

IThat's not just in Thailand; it's everywhere the same and it's beyond me WHY anyone would be disappointed or even angry if an insurance company would refuse someone at the age of 70 or older.

What and where on earth was his/her insurance before that time ? ..how can anyone expect that an insurance company welcomes a 70 year old, knowing the insured person will die within a few years anyway and they have to pay for the likely very expensive costs in hospital?

Those costs can't possibly being paid from the premium income of the insured person.

LaoPo

I think you will find in a lot of cases, the vast majority of the complaining retiree's have come from "nanny state" type countries where "free" medical has been the order of the day, and anytime you are in "trouble" you can run to a goverment agency and demand they do something, this is borne out by the number of posters who are suggesting the Thai goverment set up funds/insurance schemes for just them....so I will go back to an original question posed earlier.....Why should they ?

Indeed..why should they?

If the smart guys here on board are so dumb to go and live in a foreign country WITHOUT a health insurance...How smart are they?

They are so smart that they don't even respect their own body and mind, KNOWING that an accident or sickness could struck them any day. These same members post here day in day out expressing there opinions about so many things...but they have NO health insurance?

LaoPo

LaoPo, one size does not fit all.

Insurance companies are in business to make a profit. In order to do that, premiums are set so that the average person spends more in premiums than they would spend on reimbursable medical care. I'm extremely healthy and have a net worth approaching 8 figures (USD, GBP, Euros; doesn't matter). I've got homes on two continents and travel extensively. Good insurance that would cover me anywhere in the world would be very expensive. So I'm self-insured. If I wind up with a 1,000,000 medical bill someday, so be it. My heirs can fend for themselves.

Many people are over-insured, whether it be life insurance or medical insurance.

Your generalization about people with no insurance, is just your opinion.

I don't appreciate being called dumb.

LaoPo ...

An Insurance companies business is a risk taking business, yet they make great profits, I had in the past a top (and rather expensive) health insurance policy for 9 years without (luckily) ever claiming a single penny.

As a businessman I looked at the heavily wasted annual premiums payments over so many years and I decided to take the "risks" away from the Insurance company and take the health risk factors on to myself, that is to say the usual monthly premiums I had to pay to the insurers I now invested in the stock market, I started this in 1978 until the year 2000.

The premiums I cut away from the insurers and invested into the markets for 22 years trebled in value, had I not done this then the premium payments for the above 22 years would have been a total waste of money for me, (let alone the profits of the markets) and a total profit for the insurer.

Many, yes many people do this, they take their own risk in terms of health insurance, they look after their body (health-wise) in order to reduce the risk factors, and they invest their money that would otherwise have gone to insurance premiums into the stock markets with great financial benefits, which results into a very pleasant retirement time in Thailand.

Should we need hospital care we shall pay the costs, on the other hand, should the Thai government demand health insurance premiums from farangs (as was suggested in the debate here) in order to provide free hospital care, OK, no problem, we would not have to leave Thailand.

But LaoPo, will regard us as not being smart, and rather dumb.

[joorakee]

One more reason why it might be better to enjoy Thailand while young instead of waiting until one gets old.

I couldn't agree more. Not just the elderly, but many foreigners of all ages just love to live in Thailand burning the candle at both ends and living well beyong thier means.

The Thais refer to these individuals as "Farang Khee Nok ฝรั่งขี้นก". Which literally means " Bird shit Foriegner.

Then all of a sudden. Medical emergency! Ohh! No money to pay the medical bills. Next minute those close to these sorry individuals have the hide to pass the hat around looking for donations to bail these guys out. I have seen this too many times to count over the years.If you run out of money and cannot finance yourself for ANY situation that may arise whilst abroad, then I am sorry but it is time to face reality and GO HOME!!!! These <deleted> are what gives foreigners a bad name here in Thailand. One more time. GO HOME!!!! :jap:

Well, I can understand those not so well-off who prefer living the easy-going way of life in a nice climate to working their nuts off in a cold country (with no guarantee that they will get a pension of 65k baht in the future). Not everyone wants to become a millionaire. Some people have different priorities than getting rich by Western standards. And being rich is not a conditio sine qua non allowing someone to visit or live permanently in the LOS (or another country).

[slapout]

The topic title as stated brought questions to my mind when I read it. After reviewing the numbers as presented for the past couple years, which were referred to as a heavy burden, I placed about the same importance on this article as similar articles/statements which seem to be a weekly occurrence. Put the blame somewhere else and the foreigners are good scapegoats.

I have had immediate family in 3 different hospitals over the years and in every case, when the bill was checked prior to payment, the mistakes found were in the hospitals favor. This included a extra day of room charge and one time 2 separate room charges for the same day. If the complaint about foreigners skipping out on payment is based on the creative accounting I have seen, they may be trying to cover a sticky fingered employee.

[Soutpeel]

And being rich is not a conditio sine qua non allowing someone to visit or live permanently in the LOS (or another country).

Dont believe anyone has suggested that if you are not rich you should not be allowed to visit or live permanently in Thailand, but you should have access to ample funds/insurance to look after yourself in the case of medical treatment as to not put the burden on other people or the Thai goverment.

I seems to me that people here are suggesting its the Thai goverments responsiblity to facilitate a medical insurance scheme for them, or pick up the tab.

Examples have been given were somebody, even as a tourist, visiting certain countries require that person to have medical insurance to be allowed to visit, so if the Thai goverment ever imposed this requirement, they are not unique in this regard, or using the requirement as a vehicle to discriminate against Farang retiree's as is suggested by some posters.

Is having insurance or other financial considerations for the issue of a visa so unreasonable, seeing as the persons concerned have no legal status in the country per se ?

Most countries I have worked in as an expat, required adequate medical insurance to be in place prior to the issue of the WP, work visa etc, so cant see it being any different for someone who retires in a country which is not their own.

[LaoPo]

At LaoPo -

Firstly, you health insurance from back home doesn't cover you whilst abroad (I know mine doesn't).

Travel insurance, life insurance and trauma insurance does.

I am concerned that travel insurance might not pay out if you are "settled" in a foreign country and are clearly living there. Eg. bought a house, long term lease etc. I will have to research this more.

If you are over 70 years of age and/or have a serious pre-existing condition, and apply for health insurance now, your application will be rejected. If you have a policy now, but turn 70, it will not be renewed.

My question to you is, what are these people to do if the Thai Government brings in a law that you have to show "proof of medical insurance" to obtain your yearly retirement visa????

Incorrect; my health insurance covers me and my wife, everywhere in the world; not living somehwere full time but up to 180 days/year OUTSIDE my own country.

Next to that I have travel insurance on yearly basis since more than 35 years.

I said it before: if someone at the age of 70 or over applies for a health insurance, WHAT ON EARTH was he doing before he turned 70 ?..walking through life for 70 years WITHOUT an insurance ?...and now he expects to get a health insurance from an insurance company because he wants to live in Thailand ?

Your question: Why wouldn't the Thai Government put such a law in place if they want to?

It's mandatory in every single European country if someone outside the EU wants to travel to Europe, no matter the age; my own PIL's traveled to Europe last year and bought a health insurance back home for the time they staid in Europe and they were both well over 70.

What's so problematic ?

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

You have miss quoted me. That was LaoPo's comment. Not mine.

I will say this again, loudly because this is really what the thread is about.

WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OVER 70's AND PEOPLE WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS WHO CAN NOT GET MEDICAL INSURANCE????

See my previous answer but it's absurd for anyone over 70 to "demand" or apply for a health insurance now that they want to live in a foreign country and are angry they can't get any.

I'm flabbergasted that some people don't seem to get it that they've walked on this earth for more than 90% of their given time WITHOUT a health insurance and now want an insurance for the remainder (Less than) 10% since they're so eager to go to Thailand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

LaoPo ...

An Insurance companies business is a risk taking business, yet they make great profits, I had in the past a top (and rather expensive) health insurance policy for 9 years without (luckily) ever claiming a single penny.

As a businessman I looked at the heavily wasted annual premiums payments over so many years and I decided to take the "risks" away from the Insurance company and take the health risk factors on to myself, that is to say the usual monthly premiums I had to pay to the insurers I now invested in the stock market, I started this in 1978 until the year 2000.

The premiums I cut away from the insurers and invested into the markets for 22 years trebled in value, had I not done this then the premium payments for the above 22 years would have been a total waste of money for me, (let alone the profits of the markets) and a total profit for the insurer.

Many, yes many people do this, they take their own risk in terms of health insurance, they look after their body (health-wise) in order to reduce the risk factors, and they invest their money that would otherwise have gone to insurance premiums into the stock markets with great financial benefits, which results into a very pleasant retirement time in Thailand.

Should we need hospital care we shall pay the costs, on the other hand, should the Thai government demand health insurance premiums from farangs (as was suggested in the debate here) in order to provide free hospital care, OK, no problem, we would not have to leave Thailand.

But LaoPo, will regard us as not being smart, and rather dumb.

You were lucky those 22 years; others were not. But if you tell me (like you just did) that you invested that money in the stockmarket with great benefits I'm even more flabbergasted that an intelligent man like yourself is playing with his own life and neglecting the necessity of health insurance.

I think having no health insurance is playing with your own life (or one of your family's); you or anyone else can run into a nasty accident, the moment you didn't look the right way and BOOOMMM!...in hospital for several months or worse.

If YOU are prepared to pay for the costs yourself, be my guest but I still think it's not smart to have NO insurance.

I personally know of a well respected member here on board who had to have an urgent multiple bypass heart surgery and didn't want to risk to have that done in Thailand and flew to his homeland; everything insured and paid for.

Any idea how much such an operation costs ?

What would YOU do, pay for yourself or rather die in the arms of your beloved one(s) ?

You tell me but don't tell me such nasty health problems or accidents can not happen to you....

LaoPo

[mca]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Looking at the list you provided mate I now realise why googling " Swaziland Visa Forum Retirement Visa Requirements " didn't really help me out.

[el jefe]

LaoPo ...

An Insurance companies business is a risk taking business, yet they make great profits, I had in the past a top (and rather expensive) health insurance policy for 9 years without (luckily) ever claiming a single penny.

As a businessman I looked at the heavily wasted annual premiums payments over so many years and I decided to take the "risks" away from the Insurance company and take the health risk factors on to myself, that is to say the usual monthly premiums I had to pay to the insurers I now invested in the stock market, I started this in 1978 until the year 2000.

The premiums I cut away from the insurers and invested into the markets for 22 years trebled in value, had I not done this then the premium payments for the above 22 years would have been a total waste of money for me, (let alone the profits of the markets) and a total profit for the insurer.

Many, yes many people do this, they take their own risk in terms of health insurance, they look after their body (health-wise) in order to reduce the risk factors, and they invest their money that would otherwise have gone to insurance premiums into the stock markets with great financial benefits, which results into a very pleasant retirement time in Thailand.

Should we need hospital care we shall pay the costs, on the other hand, should the Thai government demand health insurance premiums from farangs (as was suggested in the debate here) in order to provide free hospital care, OK, no problem, we would not have to leave Thailand.

But LaoPo, will regard us as not being smart, and rather dumb.

You were lucky those 22 years; others were not. But if you tell me (like you just did) that you invested that money in the stockmarket with great benefits I'm even more flabbergasted that an intelligent man like yourself is playing with his own life and neglecting the necessity of health insurance.

I think having no health insurance is playing with your own life (or one of your family's); you or anyone else can run into a nasty accident, the moment you didn't look the right way and BOOOMMM!...in hospital for several months or worse.

If YOU are prepared to pay for the costs yourself, be my guest but I still think it's not smart to have NO insurance.

I personally know of a well respected member here on board who had to have an urgent multiple bypass heart surgery and didn't want to risk to have that done in Thailand and flew to his homeland; everything insured and paid for.

Any idea how much such an operation costs ?

What would YOU do, pay for yourself or rather die in the arms of your beloved one(s) ?

You tell me but don't tell me such nasty health problems or accidents can not happen to you....

LaoPo

"I'm even more flabbergasted that an intelligent man like yourself" still doesn't understand risk analysis despite two of us explaining it to you.

[LaoPo]

http://en.wikipedia....life_expectancy

Looking at the list you provided mate I now realise why googling " Swaziland Visa Forum Retirement Visa Requirements " didn't really help me out.

..yeah, you would look old there, wouldn't you, unless you're below 32.....the life expectancy of Swaziland

However, I don't think we can fully trust this list since Thailand shows an average age life expectancy age of just 70 (M/66.5 and F/75) whilst the CIA world factbook shows it's an average of 75 years (M/72.94 and F/77.21)

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

"I'm even more flabbergasted that an intelligent man like yourself" still doesn't understand risk analysis despite two of us explaining it to you.

You know El Jefe: more than one documentary has been aired around the world about so many tragic cases of families who were forced to sell off their house, cars and other assets because they received huge bills from hospitals because they faced a sudden serious sickness, operation or something else, very nasty and happening to people who considered themselves healthy. I'm talking US families here who were not insured.

But, this is not an exclusivity basis invented in the US; citizens of many countries faced the same drama.

Risk health analysis....

When I was 16 I ended up in hospital for 3 weeks because of a motobike accident*; when I was in my twenties I ended up in hospital again for an urgent appendix removal operation, out of the blue with no prior signals.

In the past 2 1/2 years I ended up a nice 7 times in hospital; 6 times for the same colon problem and 1 time because of an infection caused during a test by a specialist; also very nice and on intensive care.

Risk An@lysis ? Give me a break; the last 2 1/2 years costed at least a nice 2 to 2.5 Million Baht and although I could have paid for myself I'm quite content I have full insurance

I can only hope that such circumstances will never occur to you "two of us explaining it to you"....the two of you, the masterbrains in Risk An@lysis

* speaking of a motobike accident; a week ago I had to talk to a dear Lady friend of mine who lost her son, 15 years ago at the age of 17; a brilliant and handsome young man, a James Dean look-alike, riding his motobike in Spain when suddenly a car crashed and killed him...

Risk An@lysis you say...?

Playing Russian Roulette with your own life is a better expression.

LaoPo

[personchester]

LaoPo ...

An Insurance companies business is a risk taking business, yet they make great profits, I had in the past a top (and rather expensive) health insurance policy for 9 years without (luckily) ever claiming a single penny.

As a businessman I looked at the heavily wasted annual premiums payments over so many years and I decided to take the "risks" away from the Insurance company and take the health risk factors on to myself, that is to say the usual monthly premiums I had to pay to the insurers I now invested in the stock market, I started this in 1978 until the year 2000.

The premiums I cut away from the insurers and invested into the markets for 22 years trebled in value, had I not done this then the premium payments for the above 22 years would have been a total waste of money for me, (let alone the profits of the markets) and a total profit for the insurer.

Many, yes many people do this, they take their own risk in terms of health insurance, they look after their body (health-wise) in order to reduce the risk factors, and they invest their money that would otherwise have gone to insurance premiums into the stock markets with great financial benefits, which results into a very pleasant retirement time in Thailand.

Should we need hospital care we shall pay the costs, on the other hand, should the Thai government demand health insurance premiums from farangs (as was suggested in the debate here) in order to provide free hospital care, OK, no problem, we would not have to leave Thailand.

But LaoPo, will regard us as not being smart, and rather dumb.

You were lucky those 22 years; others were not. But if you tell me (like you just did) that you invested that money in the stockmarket with great benefits I'm even more flabbergasted that an intelligent man like yourself is playing with his own life and neglecting the necessity of health insurance.

I think having no health insurance is playing with your own life (or one of your family's); you or anyone else can run into a nasty accident, the moment you didn't look the right way and BOOOMMM!...in hospital for several months or worse.

If YOU are prepared to pay for the costs yourself, be my guest but I still think it's not smart to have NO insurance.

I personally know of a well respected member here on board who had to have an urgent multiple bypass heart surgery and didn't want to risk to have that done in Thailand and flew to his homeland; everything insured and paid for.

Any idea how much such an operation costs ?

What would YOU do, pay for yourself or rather die in the arms of your beloved one(s) ?

You tell me but don't tell me such nasty health problems or accidents can not happen to you....

LaoPo

No one can forecast their potential problems in life, although life in general is full of risks, travelling in planes, trains, cars, motor bikes, bicycles, even crossing a road, all this is risky, investing into the stock market is risky, starting a business is very risky, but all this is being done by people without being able to control the outcome of it, since it involves other people, but in any event risks must be taken on a daily basis, that is part of life.

Personal health risks however can be controlled by people themselves by avoiding inter-alia ... bad nutrition, alcoholism, smoking, lack of exercise etc ... this reduced the health risk factors tremendously, they can set aside a certain amount of money in case of a health problem, but insurance premiums are not a top requirement, moreover, as one gets older the premiums get up and up, and there is in addition the danger that due to one's age the policy will eventually be cancelled.

Therefore investing those monies elsewhere is more positive and creates profits for the individual, as opposed to the insurer, and those profits will accumulate, as a result of which people will be able to deal with hospital expenses privately should any problems arise, thus without a health insurance cover no financial problems should or will occur, provided one keeps locking after one's bodily and brainy health condition on an ongoing bases.

The way you support the aspects of "insurance cover" seems to indicate that you are either a current, or a former insurance salesman, in which case your views and opinions on this matter are well understood.

[LaoPo]

The way you support the aspects of "insurance cover" seems to indicate that you are either a current, or a former insurance salesman, in which case your views and opinions on this matter are well understood.

...me, an insurance salesman? You couldn't be further from reality. No, I'm just a realistic human being and a "consumer" of a few insurances, that's all, and the most profitable (for me) insurance is my health insurance.

But, if some of you don't want to have a health insurance, be my guest, but don't complain if you would have a serious sickness or accident and have the surpise of an immense hospital/doctors bill.

LaoPo

[Petbon]

IMO Thailand should get tougher with those entering this country. I've met several people who have taught here informally enough to live on, yet never paying any tax, and now some oldies tell me they're thinking of coming here to teach English - they've been jobless for years in NZ - have health issues and no resources to call on. I wonder whether developing countries are being invaded by suchlike, where they pay no taxes towards the community, but are, and will be, landed with them when they fall ill.

It shocks me that NZ let in tourists with no insurance - e.g. South African young woman who ended up with reaction to medicine, costing taxpayers near half a million $$s - NZers are having to wait for treatment themselves.

[Jingthing]

This fantasy safety net that is supposed to be waiting for skint foreigners in Thailand is greatly exaggerated. As is this issue. This isn't a welfare state for expats. Most people without ability to pay are either going to find a way out of Dodge if they can, or they will die. Thailand will feel no responsibility to take care of them, so in my view, this entire "issue" is a huge mountain out of a molehill in regard to these imagined "losses" Thailand will incur from this.

Don't misunderstand me. Of course this is a real and a potentially devastating problem for US if we are not covered well or at all, and even many who think they are covered may be in for some very nasty surprises when they actually make big claims. For Thailand, it is a trifle, because the providers will simply usually just deny treatment for most people. Sure some people might get "lucky" but for the most part the providers will find a way to dump out non-payers.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Jingthing

[mommysboy]

Private health insurance is great as long as you don't get too sick!

But that's a fate we all will face. I'd certainly like to hear from someone who feels they won't. In other words chronic sickness will ruin you financially one way or another. So I don't think it is possible for most ordinary people to make adequate provisions for most eventualities.

People living in the UK are lucky in as much as the health care system is probably heavily subsidised and in truth most of us plebs probably receive much more care than we ever pay for in contributions, and you won't be turned away if you have Alzheimers, AIDS, and other expensive diseases to treat.

So to be harsh, you pay your money and take your chances: stay in the UK, or have a more exciting life out here knowing that you face a greater risk of a more painful and premature end. What a terrible thought, time for a (nother) beer.

[Colabamumbai]

The simple/sensible solution would be to require all retiree's in Thailand to have valid medical insurance as part of the visa issue/renewal process, no insurance no renewal of visa....its that simple.

It is completely beyond me why someone would live in a foreign country, with no access/right to "free" medical treatment and not have medical insurance even at a basic level

I couldn't agree more. Not just the elderly, but many foreigners of all ages just love to live in Thailand burning the candle at both ends and living well beyong thier means.

The Thais refer to these individuals as "Farang Khee Nok ฝรั่งขี้นก". Which literally means " Bird shit Foriegner.

Then all of a sudden. Medical emergency! Ohh! No money to pay the medical bills. Next minute those close to these sorry individuals have the hide to pass the hat around looking for donations to bail these guys out. I have seen this too many times to count over the years.If you run out of money and cannot finance yourself for ANY situation that may arise whilst abroad, then I am sorry but it is time to face reality and GO HOME!!!! These <deleted> are what gives foreigners a bad name here in Thailand. One more time. GO HOME!!!! :jap:

Many people have grafted years to come and burn the candle at both ends, and hope they enjoy it, IF they do fall ill then they made their bed have to lie in it. I,m neigther a Snob or bird sh+t and I would rather die than beg. It's Your attitude to someone who you thinks have no brains, that gives foreigners a bad name. Live and let live, enjoy, as long as it's not at others expence. As for your word ( 2 hats ) this sums up your character.

I lived here when I was 20 and I am doing it again at 60, who says people should travel to Thailand when they are young to avoid medical expenses? I needed hospital treatment then, so things can happen at any age. It is not only old people who require medical assistance or hospitalization. I am just thankful that all is available here without too much fuss. (let the Canadian health care plan put you on a waiting list ) to see you, if you don't die before hand.

,

[Naam]

I personally know of a well respected member here on board who had to have an urgent multiple bypass heart surgery and didn't want to risk to have that done in Thailand and flew to his homeland; everything insured and paid for.

Any idea how much such an operation costs ?

for the record: this "well respected" member wouldn't have minded to have the surgery done in Thailand but his "well feared" wife commanded "we are going home to Germany where they will cut you up and do all the remodelling your heart requires!"

surgery (quadruple coronary, single aorta bypass) and 8 days hospital was € 48,000 (at that time ~2.4 milllion Baht) and two weeks in a rehab clinic another € 7,600 (~380,000 Baht) all paid, no questions asked, by my private multinational health insurance. important is to mention that i could have gone to Houston, Shanghai or any other place on this planet to have the surgery done without prior approval from the insurance company. a small disadvantage with out-of-state health insurance is that you have to advance the cost and then get reimbursed which takes between a week and 10 days (in my case).

[Naam]

Private health insurance is great as long as you don't get too sick!

read my posting and stop talking about things no have no idea

[LaoPo]

I personally know of a well respected member here on board who had to have an urgent multiple bypass heart surgery and didn't want to risk to have that done in Thailand and flew to his homeland; everything insured and paid for.

Any idea how much such an operation costs ?

for the record: this "well respected" member wouldn't have minded to have the surgery done in Thailand but his "well feared" wife commanded "we are going home to Germany where they will cut you up and do all the remodelling your heart requires!"

surgery (quadruple coronary, single aorta bypass) and 8 days hospital was € 48,000 (at that time ~2.4 milllion Baht) and two weeks in a rehab clinic another € 7,600 (~380,000 Baht) all paid, no questions asked, by my private multinational health insurance. important is to mention that i could have gone to Houston, Shanghai or any other place on this planet to have the surgery done without prior approval from the insurance company. a small disadvantage with out-of-state health insurance is that you have to advance the cost and then get reimbursed which takes between a week and 10 days (in my case).

Thanks Naam; didn't want to name you but appreciate your post.

BTW: € 48.000 sounds reasonable for such a complicated surgery since I thought it would be more in Europe; it probably varies a bit from country to country.

Hope you feel well!

LaoPo

[nong38]

There are many solutions then, but the policies I have seen seem poor value, I doubt that they would even cover the cost of an operation so what would be the point of taking a policy like that out, does not make sense. So if anyone knows of good value policies dont be shy let us all know about them. I am currently well insured by the way in case you are wondering.

There is a problem though and that is when you get to 80 maybe 85 no one wants to know you you are now a bad risk, even though you may have been here for 20,30 or more years this is the real problem what happens then?

I could go back to the UK and before long would be put in a pensioners prison ( care home!!) govt take all your wealth and you wait to die, no more choices, no more going out.

I have come here for a better life, make a Thai's life better, leave something for her to enjoy the rest of her life too.

So what I look for soon is a good health policy and what about over 80's? I am sure we will all ask this question one day,so maybe this what the Thai govt really has to address.

Edited January 22, 2011 by nong38

[jayjay0]

I personally know of a well respected member here on board who had to have an urgent multiple bypass heart surgery and didn't want to risk to have that done in Thailand and flew to his homeland; everything insured and paid for.

Any idea how much such an operation costs ?

for the record: this "well respected" member wouldn't have minded to have the surgery done in Thailand but his "well feared" wife commanded "we are going home to Germany where they will cut you up and do all the remodelling your heart requires!"

surgery (quadruple coronary, single aorta bypass) and 8 days hospital was € 48,000 (at that time ~2.4 milllion Baht) and two weeks in a rehab clinic another € 7,600 (~380,000 Baht) all paid, no questions asked, by my private multinational health insurance. important is to mention that i could have gone to Houston, Shanghai or any other place on this planet to have the surgery done without prior approval from the insurance company. a small disadvantage with out-of-state health insurance is that you have to advance the cost and then get reimbursed which takes between a week and 10 days (in my case).

Thanks Naam; didn't want to name you but appreciate your post.

BTW: € 48.000 sounds reasonable for such a complicated surgery since I thought it would be more in Europe; it probably varies a bit from country to country.

Hope you feel well!

LaoPo

In the states it is a six figure number they start at $100,000 plus. But my info is five years old.

[Chupup]

I personally know of a well respected member here on board who had to have an urgent multiple bypass heart surgery and didn't want to risk to have that done in Thailand and flew to his homeland; everything insured and paid for.

Any idea how much such an operation costs ?

for the record: this "well respected" member wouldn't have minded to have the surgery done in Thailand but his "well feared" wife commanded "we are going home to Germany where they will cut you up and do all the remodelling your heart requires!"

surgery (quadruple coronary, single aorta bypass) and 8 days hospital was € 48,000 (at that time ~2.4 milllion Baht) and two weeks in a rehab clinic another € 7,600 (~380,000 Baht) all paid, no questions asked, by my private multinational health insurance. important is to mention that i could have gone to Houston, Shanghai or any other place on this planet to have the surgery done without prior approval from the insurance company. a small disadvantage with out-of-state health insurance is that you have to advance the cost and then get reimbursed which takes between a week and 10 days (in my case).

Thanks Naam; didn't want to name you but appreciate your post.

BTW: € 48.000 sounds reasonable for such a complicated surgery since I thought it would be more in Europe; it probably varies a bit from country to country.

Hope you feel well!

LaoPo

In the states it is a six figure number they start at $100,000 plus. But my info is five years old.

[mommysboy]

Private health insurance is great as long as you don't get too sick!

read my posting and stop talking about things no have no idea

I have had the benefit of a Thai health insurance policy and have had surgery for which it covered the whole cost.

I looked at the exclusions and for sure they'll only cover to a certain point. A cover all policy is very expensive.

What happens past 70? I think it would be very difficult to get insurance and then there is finding the policy cost anyway.

But yes you are right, there is an error, I should have wrote too sick or too old! And chronic sickness isn't inevitable, it could be we'll die suddenly.

Thanks for the kind invitation to read your posting.