About To Make The Big Move, But How To Avoid Bitterness And Regret

[bassyfarang]

I have been planning a move to Thailand for a number of years now and am within weeks of going. However, the more I read the posting of certain members on this forum, I start to ask myself the question: could this happen to me? It's not just this forum, others too. A lot of expats or those with extensive exposure to Thailand seem to be severely bitter, make sweeping generalisations and generally have, from what I can ascertain by reading their opinions, questionable judgement.

I hope to avoid the same fate? These last 3 years of living outside of the kingdom and looking in have led me to conclude that I should avoid the following as an attempt to safeguard myself from what appears to be (to my eyes) a slow and bitter demise:

- becoming economically trapped by spending more than I earn;

- investing in too risky an asset base (e.g. in respect of latter: bar in Thailand or house in wife's name);

- spending large amounts of time in expat areas that are likely to attract Thais who want to make a living out of foreign residents or holiday makers;

- failing to learn the Thai language to a high standard;

- failing to leave with indecent haste the moment one meets a Thai person that is critical of you for learning their language and who tells you it will cause Thais to lose face if you speak their language;

- sleeping with too many different partners;

- spending too much time in bars;

- failing to focus on a meaningful set of hobbies, goals and aspirations;

- failing to keep in good shape and eating a healthy diet;

- not staying legal in terms of visa rules;

- forgetting how difficult, expensive and dull life can be in the west.

Here's to hoping I survive.

[balhamred]

I wouldn't listen to other people's experiences too much on forums - those who often have something negative to say often speak the loudest.

just be realistic with your goals and expectations, and you will find Thailand a good enough place to live a happy life. it has its positives and negatives just like anywhere else - whether it will be enough for you for the long term, the only way to find out is what you are doing, so plenty of reasons to be positive at this juncture.

[robblok]

Find a job

Live in a non tourist area

Join a gym

Stay out of bars

Dont get a gf right away

Find some other hobbies

Im here.. i like it here been here almost 5 years. Im outside the tourist area's. I dont get scammed often. The pro's outweigh the cons. But hey every country has its bad things and its not wrong to discuss them. But every country has its good things too.. they are discussed less often. As long as good outweighs bad for you then your ok here.

[balhamred]

Dont get a gf right away

sound advice. leave it at least a year i reckon and just observe.

[NanLaew]

What is the OP's primary motivation for relocating here? What is the primary attraction?

[garyh]

Add this to your list,

Think with big head not little one.

[danbradster]

You seem like a good planner, I think you'll do well.

What is your main reason for moving? Hopefully you'll still consider it a good reason in 5-10 years time.

[jdinasia]

Dont get a gf right away

sound advice. leave it at least a year i reckon and just observe.

My Thai friends (both male and female) will not date a farang that has lived here less than 2 years. Their impression of us in the early years in Thailand is that of a kid in a candy store. Fortunately, my partner that I met just 4 months after moving here broke his own rule on that. He said he had his reasons amongst them being that I wasn't retired nor here to work and that I had spent quite a while here in the past.

add to the list, don't just avoid living in bars --- avoid those that do! additionally, you can be a drunk at home as easily as in a bar -- be careful on that.

The people I know that failed to adapt here in Thailand almost to a man became very isolated other than the internet. Do make social contacts!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Excellent list!

I'm also surprised to see that I managed to live by all of them. (Well, I could exercise more I suppose)

[beano2274]

Have been here 6 years, decided to come on the spur of the moment, had never been here before, but had a job lined up.

I have stayed away from the areas that foreigners go to regularly, this is because of me, no other reason.

I met many wonderful women during my time, was never really stitched up by any of them, now happily married.

Have no hobbies, work in Bangkok which keeps me busy. Have the correct Visa to stay here.

I do not speak Thai, my MIL is a Government teacher, but she knows that I am not gonna learn it, in fact they all try to learn English.

Have 2 Condos both in my wife's name, not a problem for me.

Just be yourself and you will survive quite easily.

[jayboy]

My Thai friends (both male and female) will not date a farang that has lived here less than 2 years. Their impression of us in the early years in Thailand is that of a kid in a candy store. Fortunately, my partner that I met just 4 months after moving here broke his own rule on that. He said he had his reasons amongst them being that I wasn't retired nor here to work and that I had spent quite a while here in the past.

Don't know anything about your Thai friends and their curious rules.Probably says something about the circles you move in.

However I can assure you that well educated upper middle class and upper class Thais wouldn't dream of entertaining such "candy store" ideas about foreigners.In the first instance they mostly wouldn't think of dating foreigners at all.A few do but they would be drawn to young diplomats and businessmen with suitable charm, society position and education.None of these foreigners would come here to fornicate:they would be sent by their companies or embassies.In the cases I'm thinking of the foreigner-Thai relationship was formed in months, not the weird two years prescription you mention.Most would be approximately the same age as their partner and would share mutual interests - i.e much the same motivation as young well connected couples anywhere else in the world

None of these foreigners would be visa runners or "businessmen" on dodgy visas.All would be intelligent and relatively well paid.They would mostly be quickly made members of the RSBC and other elite clubs (not the naff British Club!!).They probably never would have heard of Thai Visa.Always good to remind oneself there's a different world out there.

[jdinasia]

Don't know anything about your Thai friends and their curious rules.Probably says something about the circles you move in.

However I can assure you that well educated upper middle class and upper class Thais wouldn't dream of entertaining such "candy store" ideas about foreigners.In the first instance they mostly wouldn't think of dating foreigners at all.A few do but they would be drawn to young diplomats and businessmen with suitable charm, society position and education.None of these foreigners would come here to fornicate:they would be sent by their companies or embassies.In the cases I'm thinking of the foreigner-Thai relationship was formed in months, not the weird two years prescription you mention.Most would be approximately the same age as their partner and would share mutual interests - i.e much the same motivation as young well connected couples anywhere else in the world

None of these foreigners would be visa runners or "businessmen" on dodgy visas.All would be intelligent and relatively well paid.They would mostly be quickly made members of the RSBC and other elite clubs (not the naff British Club!!).They probably never would have heard of Thai Visa.Always good to remind oneself there's a different world out there.

Since you bring this up in almost EVERY thread you post in reply to something I have posted in ---- please don't be shy. Say what you mean! (Yet again I expect obfuscation). Who are these visa-runners and "businessmen on dodgy visas" that you so frequently refer to? (I am guessing yet again you will avoid the direct question since all you are doing is stalking me with ad-hominem attacks. )

The age difference between me and my partner is 14 years. The age difference between him and previous BF's was about 14 years as well. (I, prior to moving to Thailand i dated people usually within 2 years of my own age )

I assume that some people have not read some of the dramatic and tragic stories posted online from wives of men who got posted to Thailand. I am sure that nobody on staff at any embassy has ever fallen into the bar girl scene, and that nobody from any business has ever done so either.

edit --- the rules that my friends tend to have make sense. They like farang. They are professionals. They have seen what happens all too often to foreigners in their first years in Thailand.

Edited January 23, 2011 by jdinasia

[mallyrd]

The whiners and moaners that you see on this forum as well as on other similar forums are but a drop in the ocean and have minute representation in the expat scene. The successes far out weight the failures.

[jayboy]

Since you bring this up in almost EVERY thread you post in reply to something I have posted in ---- please don't be shy. Say what you mean! (Yet again I expect obfuscation). Who are these visa-runners and "businessmen on dodgy visas" that you so frequently refer to? (I am guessing yet again you will avoid the direct question since all you are doing is stalking me with ad-hominem attacks. )

The age difference between me and my partner is 14 years. The age difference between him and previous BF's was about 14 years as well. (I, prior to moving to Thailand i dated people usually within 2 years of my own age )

I assume that some people have not read some of the dramatic and tragic stories posted online from wives of men who got posted to Thailand. I am sure that nobody on staff at any embassy has ever fallen into the bar girl scene, and that nobody from any business has ever done so either.

Visa runners are probably the majority of the foreign "community".I was making a distinction between this lot and properly authorised young professionals with the right visas.In answer to your question there are many many foreigners illegally doing business.Everybody knows a few (don't you as a regular on the visa running threads?), particularly in the EFL "community" - not exactly the best face of expatriates in Thailand.

Yes there are many sad old losers from the legitimate business world who fall for some saucy Thai minx.I was however referring to a much younger crowd, in their late 20's to early 30's - some of whom also live the sexpat life.The point I was making that good looking well educated professionals sometimes find similar Thai partners without the peculiar two year interval you seem to think necessary.

I'm not interested in the large age difference you apparently feel comfortable with, and will comment no further on that issue.Chaque a son gout, Grandad.

[bassyfarang]

You seem like a good planner, I think you'll do well.

What is your main reason for moving? Hopefully you'll still consider it a good reason in 5-10 years time.

Because life is too short to not make a change when there are things around you that you don't like. I don't want to reel off a list of negatives about the west as I would fall into the exact trap that I am cautious of in relation to getting negative about life in Thailand. Perhaps better to focus on the positives of Thailand.

(sorry, another list)

- it is cheap (no matter what the exchange rate is, and inflation) a higher standard of living is possible on than in the west on a comparable income. E.g. I went to the cinema in the UK yesterday. It cost almost 500 baht and the standard of the seating and screen were not comparable to what I have experienced in Thailand, after wafting in line for twenty minutes for a ticket, I asked the lady at the counter why they were so short staffed, her response was that management cannot be expected predict customer flows...... Real answer, the economics in the West mean that the cost of employing more staff is prohibitively expensive. Income distributions is too even meaning that an hour of one employee's time is too similar to the value of an hour of my time. Net result, I have to consume less services than if I lived in an economy where income distribution is more skewed and I am higher up the chain. It's not even a case of being able to buy your way out of the problem in the West, there was only one queue for all income groups.

- it has a very rich and exciting culture that offers lots of opportunities to get lost in (e.g. learning the language)

- the food is great

- women (hey I know)

etc........

But most of all, my job is full of people who are trapped in the rat race. The ever ending circle of earning more and moving into a more expensive lifestyle and as a result that means there is no easy way off the conveyor belt, until retirement and then, well, that thing that is as certain as taxes.

[beano2274]

To those who are bickering on another guys topic

I know many Thai girls who fall in love the foreigners, then the foreigner goes home after a holiday, or for other reasons. I think some Thai women like to have a steady relationship with a guy who is gonna stay here, that is why the 2 year point.

Women want security, they want a guy who is working here and can stay here for a long period of time, no mummies boys.

Age differences have no place in Thai society, those who have been here long enough should know that!!!!

To the OP, just come, enjoy it, if it does not meet your expectations then you have the opportunity to go somewhere else.

Edited January 23, 2011 by beano2274

[jdinasia]

Grandad? Nope --- just 46 and no children --- so not a grandad I am a greybeard though! (and have been since my beard started growing in when I was a teen!)

Jayboy --- yet again you obfuscated as to why you make those remarks in almost every thread you stalk me in. Nothing dodgy about MY visa, nor my WP, nor am I a visa runner My annual permission to stay is in good standing and I haven't left Thailand since 2009. Maybe this is some kind of projection on your part.

Your description of "sad old losers" from the business world falling for some Thai Minx neatly followed by the confession that the much younger crowd that you seem to think is preferable ALSO falls into that trap quietly dispels most of your own argument.

For the OP --- the point is you are correct you don't have to become bitter and jaded living in Thailand. It happens to many, but if you stick to the plan you outlined you should be fine.

[MJP]

OP has his head screwed on which is the Number One! fundamental requirement needed for living out here.

For what it's worth, my advice;

You don't need to be romantically involved with anyone;

You don't need to use 'paid for' services;

Rent, at a suitable cost (do not compare with Blighty or the US, we are talking pennies here);

Rent, outside of tourist areas;

Rent, a secure property;

Rent, a furnished property;

Make sure you get utility bills directly from the utility provider;

Don't even look at Pattaya, it doesn't exist to you (I will get slammed for that but it's where so many fall foul of this place);

Learn to use the national public transport network effectively, it's cheap and it's easy;

Bring fancy gadgets, difficult to get here although not impossible, but certainly more expensive in many instances (I also recommend a good multitool, like a Leatherman Charge with tool bit kit);

Bring a proper crash helmet if you intend to ride a scooter or motorcycle, the helmets here are basically plastic buckets;

Buy a scooter, they are handy, maintain it well (an oil change will cost you around 100 Baht, I have a thing about this after both the bike engine and the truck engine and just about everything else blew up last year!);

If you're loaded buy a truck, not necessarily a new one, a basic 5 year old Ford Ranger in perfect condition with 100,000km can be had for around 250k, they don't depreciate much after this and are savagely cheap to maintain;

Get Class 'A' vehicle insurance;

Drive with extreme caution, don't get angry, take it easy, make sure the aircon is fully charged;

Get medical insurance!, AIA, BUPA etc;

Find the nice expats (there are some seriously bad ones), make friends, join an expat club in your area;

Start a current account, also look at getting a Forex account (depends on visa);

Do a TEFL course before you come over, bring any educational certificates with you;

Find a Makro, they are a lifeline especially if you end up living deep in the sticks as I do;

It will take you ages to learn the language, it's 76,000 bit encrypted;

Get on the right visa, it can get tricky if you're not married to a Thai, have kids here or at retirement age with loadsamoney;

Don't throw money about. Claim to be rather poor, no great shows of wealth, you'll attract serious problems;

Find fun that doesn't involve being persistently inebriated or 'inside' another person;

Be a bit 'cheap', find a cheap but comfortable way of living;

Careful with rice consumption, it's high glycemic index, find 'black rice' otherwise known as 'forbidden rice', that's good for you;

Understand the smiling thing, it's not really smiling unless it is actually smiling which it quite often is.

Oh! . . . and a whole bunch of other stuff.

[jdinasia]

To those who are bickering on another guys topic

I know many Thai girls who fall in love the foreigners, then the foreigner goes home after a holiday, or for other reasons. I think some Thai women like to have a steady relationship with a guy who is gonna stay here, that is why the 2 year point.

Women want security, they want a guy who is working here and can stay here for a long period of time, no mummies boys.

Age differences have no place in Thai society, those who have been here long enough should know that!!!!

To the OP, just come, enjoy it, if it does not meet your expectations then you have the opportunity to go somewhere else.

Thanks Beano --- excellent reply. (BTW --- the 2 year rule seems to be practiced by gay men as much as women.) Age is an issue for some people and not for many many others. Even when I first got here and was under 40 I was too old for some, but what really shocked me is that I wasn't old enough for some as well! They were looking for retirees for whatever reason.

[jayboy]

Grandad? Nope --- just 46 and no children --- so not a grandad I am a greybeard though! (and have been since my beard started growing in when I was a teen!)

Jayboy --- yet again you obfuscated as to why you make those remarks in almost every thread you stalk me in. Nothing dodgy about MY visa, nor my WP, nor am I a visa runner My annual permission to stay is in good standing and I haven't left Thailand since 2009. Maybe this is some kind of projection on your part.

Your description of "sad old losers" from the business world falling for some Thai Minx neatly followed by the confession that the much younger crowd that you seem to think is preferable ALSO falls into that trap quietly dispels most of your own argument.

For the OP --- the point is you are correct you don't have to become bitter and jaded living in Thailand. It happens to many, but if you stick to the plan you outlined you should be fine.

Delighted that you have the appropriate work permit and visa.Actually never thought you didn't nor frankly very interested one way or the other.

You misunderstand my point about the younger crowd.I was suggesting that while some of these also go the way of the typical sexpat, not all of them do - i.e the group I was describing.

[mark45y]

I agree with most of your list except the one about sleeping with too many women. Unless you are gay. If you are gay you should probably not sleep with too many women. Or if you do don't post about it on Thai Visa. Some people here frown on that.

If you are not gay sleep with as many women as you can, remember like Willie Nelson some day you might outlive your pecker.

You could even include sleeping with women among your goals and hobbies a lot of men here do.

Learning to speak Thai will also enhance your ability to sleep with a lot of different women as will staying in shape and eating a healthy diet.

Don't be too hard on the bar scene. You will never know how lucky you are to have a girl who has never been in the bar scene unless you know some girls who have been in the bar scene since most of the advice you get for not going to bars is given by people who never go to bars.

Also depending on the bar it may be a place to meet upper middle class and upper class educated Thai women. I have heard on occasion even the family who we can't mention are seen at certain bars, it's probably only to meet with foreign embassy staff though and not to drink or dance. You never know you may get lucky.

[MJP]

I agree with most of your list except the one about sleeping with too many women. Unless you are gay. If you are gay you should probably not sleep with too many women. Or if you do don't post about it on Thai Visa. Some people here frown on that.

If you are not gay sleep with as many women as you can, remember like Willie Nelson some day you might outlive your pecker.

You could even include sleeping with women among your goals and hobbies a lot of men here do.

Learning to speak Thai will also enhance your ability to sleep with a lot of different women as will staying in shape and eating a healthy diet.

Don't be too hard on the bar scene. You will never know how lucky you are to have a girl who has never been in the bar scene unless you know some girls who have been in the bar scene since most of the advice you get for not going to bars is given by people who never go to bars.

Also depending on the bar it may be a place to meet upper middle class and upper class educated Thai women. I have heard on occasion even the family who we can't mention are seen at certain bars, it's probably only to meet with foreign embassy staff though and not to drink or dance. You never know you may get lucky.

You're incorrigible.

[jdinasia]

I agree with most of your list except the one about sleeping with too many women. Unless you are gay. If you are gay you should probably not sleep with too many women. Or if you do don't post about it on Thai Visa. Some people here frown on that.

If you are not gay sleep with as many women as you can, remember like Willie Nelson some day you might outlive your pecker.

You could even include sleeping with women among your goals and hobbies a lot of men here do.

Learning to speak Thai will also enhance your ability to sleep with a lot of different women as will staying in shape and eating a healthy diet.

Don't be too hard on the bar scene. You will never know how lucky you are to have a girl who has never been in the bar scene unless you know some girls who have been in the bar scene since most of the advice you get for not going to bars is given by people who never go to bars.

Also depending on the bar it may be a place to meet upper middle class and upper class educated Thai women. I have heard on occasion even the family who we can't mention are seen at certain bars, it's probably only to meet with foreign embassy staff though and not to drink or dance. You never know you may get lucky.

LOL

Worth a repeat read!

As for Jayboy --- not all of ANY group goes the way of the "typical sexpat", like I said you very neatly negated your own argument there

[pjclark1]

Good list

but

Nothing wrong with spending time in bars and having sex with unsuitable women, just avoid buying them a house.

I quite like bars, in the UK I drank and played pool in bars, in Thailand I drink and play pool in bars.

I am friends with several bar girls, I don't take them home, but I do buy them an ice cream or some fruit sometimes (no drinks)

Bar girls are generally really nice people, as long as they don't look on you as a customer.

One bar girl bought me and my gf dinner as a new year treat!

Edited January 23, 2011 by pjclark1

[bassyfarang]

A lot of sound advice......

[craigt3365]

And yet I have several friends who do many of the things you have listed and they do just fine. In fact, they thrive here. It's what you make of it...be smart, have fun.

[jdinasia]

A lot of sound advice......

Oooh ... sound is another BIG issue. The best reason to "never buy". Zoning laws etc just don't get enforced here ... even in the countryside you may find the village PA system kicking in EARLY and loud!

Bring some good earplugs if you are sensitive!

[MJP]

A lot of sound advice......

Oooh ... sound is another BIG issue. The best reason to "never buy". Zoning laws etc just don't get enforced here ... even in the countryside you may find the village PA system kicking in EARLY and loud!

Bring some good earplugs if you are sensitive!

Packs of dogs, packs of roosters, village leader armed with sound pulse weapon on a stick.

Another thing. Upcountry, afterdark, anywhere outside the bounds of your house is ruled by dogs. They can be vicious. They hunt in packs. They are man eater soi sharks.

Use the Ford Ranger you bought as an amoured personnel carrier.

[domprz]

Bitterness and regret are the result of disillusionment.

The facile solution is to have no illusions but then there would be no dreams and no magic and Thailand without them is not Thailand.

Have an adventure. Give the illusions a chance, because some of them may not be, but don't get attached to them unless they have clearly proved not to be.

To be out of the clutches of Western culture and not yet within those of the Thai is a rare freedom which can help you redefine your life without the pressure of family and society and the temptation of one-upmanship.

Take stock of your values and situation regularly and you will do just fine. You seem honest enough with yourself to enjoy the journey.

I wish you well.

[mark45y]

A lot of sound advice......

Oooh ... sound is another BIG issue. The best reason to "never buy". Zoning laws etc just don't get enforced here ... even in the countryside you may find the village PA system kicking in EARLY and loud!

Bring some good earplugs if you are sensitive!

Packs of dogs, packs of roosters, village leader armed with sound pulse weapon on a stick.

Another thing. Upcountry, afterdark, anywhere outside the bounds of your house is ruled by dogs. They can be vicious. They hunt in packs. They are man eater soi sharks.

Use the Ford Ranger you bought as an amoured personnel carrier.

Yes, I read a lot of stories about dogs eating people in Northern Thailand.