Third-Sex Thai Hostesses Ready For Takeoff

[MichaelAlanKreisz]

i think it means penis cutt-off airlines.......

[jcon]

Another transsexual applicant, Panthakan Sri-ngern, 24, said she once applied for a hostess position at another airline but wasn't chosen.

What is even sadder is the other airline was a cargo carrier.

But seriously ... I wonder if any part of this story is even true. "PC" Airlines forcing males to cut off their penis before being considered for a job??? Only considering females and penisless men??? Having a cap of 3 penisless men?? The chairmen of "Rainbow Sky of Thailand" giving his thumbs-up??? The executive they quote from the airline is Peter Chan (Peter=western term for penis & Chan = I or my in Thai ... in other words My Penis) ??? And they just showed up yesterday (no news prior talking about this) at Esplanade to "look for" transexual hostesses ???

Could this have been some college kids pulling a gag?

[mark45y]

The third sex females that these airlines hired are more beautiful than women. You would not be intimidated by them. They are professionals and know their job.

I can agree they can make themselves up to be even more beautiful (not the word I would use) than ordinary women. After 27 years of visiting Thailand (half of those as a resident), I've learned to spot guys who act overly feminine and overly made-up as lady boys - though admittedly, sometimes there's some doubt.

Be that as it may (though affected personalities irk me), I think we can all agree that lady boys are very often hyper sensitive of other peoples' reactions to them (whether real or imagined). Such sensitivity is a mm away from being offended. I know of many Thai lady boys who work in shops which I frequent, many of whom share pleasant greetings with me - same as any other shop workers. Indeed, one of the managers at my biz is a lady-boy.

However, I can foresee scenarios, with the airline hostess thing, where some lady-boys could get offended - which could lead to confrontations or hurt feelings, at the least. I, for one, will not fly PC for that reason - (put another way) with workers 'walking on pins and needles' and the likelihood that a glance or a remark might be misconstrued, and workers get their emotions all twisted up and get offended, ....then retribution, etc.

Regular men and women for me, thanks.

Mostly Thais don't mind. Thai kids in school accept lady boys at a very young age. Some hi so kids may complain but that is because they have been exposed to a lot of Western prejudice.

It is too bad but expected to see so much deep seated bigotry such as (Regular men and women for me, thanks).

And I bet you don't even think it is bigotry. Oh well in a few parts of the world homosexuality is still a crime.

Ladyboys are not accepted all around the world, in some countries they get jailed or killed.

Ladyboys are not very common in most other countries. Yes there are men who dress as women but only very few go through with the surgery and hormone treatment.

So why is it that there are so many ladyboys in Thailand? and it is so acceptable as some like to think(mind you i strongly disagree, as every time i see a Thai dealing with a ladyboy, they always laugh at them and rather speak not so very nice)

Why is it that with such a large number of ladyboys in Thailand, so many chose to be prostitutes? I can not help but wonder if it is truly a feeling of that person or just a way to make money.

Many people here seem to be little confused with the term. There are MAN who dress as a WOMAN, those are not ladyboys-transvestites

MAN who have the surgery, either full cut or just breasts and hormone treatment are the ladyboys-transsexuals

Gay and Lesbian is accepted worldwide, but transsexuals are NOT.

Considering that Thailand is not the center of the universe or a trend setter, i really do not see this idea spreading further to other countries or regions.

Also since the airline wants to be so open minded, why have they made a rule that candidates must have full surgery? So is it really as accepted as some posters like to believe?

PS. The only jobs transsexuals(ladyboys) have in the West is in gay bars and nowhere else. HOWEVER transvestites can have any jobs because while at work they do not dress up.

A major difference between transvestites and transsexuals is the extent to which their transgender activities pervade their lifestyle. Usually, those who have undergone reassignment surgery will live openly and constantly as their chosen sex. Transvestites will often confine their transgender activities to specific portions of their lives, remaining in traditional gender roles much of the time.

In major cities all over the world there are lady boys. All over Thailand there are lady boys. A very small percent of them are prostitutes. Your suggestion that they are prostitutes does them a great disservice. I have seen too many young children who were lady boys to think they had anything in their minds about the P4P industry. It is only your prejudice.

They may be not accepted in your part of the world but they are accepted in the US, UK, Australia, Italy, France and Germany.

Why are there so many lady boys in Thailand? If you look at Thai history especially Thai traditional dancing you see evidence of feminine male dancers from hundreds of years ago. I could speculate why but suffice it to say Thailand has a long and honored tradition of men dressing up like women and dancing.

That long tradition has spawned the modern lady boy culture.

Your statement that transsexuals are not accepted is not true in most of the western world. Estelle Asmodelle, actress, author, dancer & Australia's First Legal Transsexual, Courtney Act, singer, gender illusionist, Australian Idol semi-finalist, Pauline Pantsdown, Australian drag queen and musician. A more complete list is below.

http://www.changelingaspects.com/Life%20Stories/Short%20List%20of%20Transgendered%20Famous%20People.htm

[retell]

I only hope Pattaya ladyboys do not hear of the news! Or i am afraid passengers will be harassed in the air just as much as on the ground.

i also hope the airline is prepared to lose some customers, there is a large number of people who do not accept so called third sex.

The kind of people that harbor such pettiness are usually the ones that buy a ticket based on price and price alone. Why else would some people be willing to sit in the middle seat on Thai Air Asia? I would think that some people would be more annoyed by the snotty FA's of TG than they would be by an FA that was friendly, well groomed and helpful. It might actually prove more cost effective for a low budget airline to have a sizeable contingent of transgenders. Think about it. A woman with the strength of a man to lift those cabin bags for the old dears that cannot. The transgender FAs offer the benefits of a pretty girl without the downside of having a monthly visitor or becoming pregnant. Alot of elderly foreign flyers that won't know the difference. And some passengers might pick the airline just for the chance of being in close proximity to a hot TG.

if the FA can evacuate the plane in an emergency, manage the hordes of savages on board and can make the flight bearable, that's all that matters to me.

THIS WE ALL TO NEED TO KNOW

stopcriticize what you dont know

[jcon]

Ladyboys are not accepted all around the world, in some countries they get jailed or killed.

Ladyboys are not very common in most other countries. Yes there are men who dress as women but only very few go through with the surgery and hormone treatment.

So why is it that there are so many ladyboys in Thailand? and it is so acceptable as some like to think(mind you i strongly disagree, as every time i see a Thai dealing with a ladyboy, they always laugh at them and rather speak not so very nice)

Why is it that with such a large number of ladyboys in Thailand, so many chose to be prostitutes? I can not help but wonder if it is truly a feeling of that person or just a way to make money.

Many people here seem to be little confused with the term. There are MAN who dress as a WOMAN, those are not ladyboys-transvestites

MAN who have the surgery, either full cut or just breasts and hormone treatment are the ladyboys-transsexuals

Gay and Lesbian is accepted worldwide, but transsexuals are NOT.

Considering that Thailand is not the center of the universe or a trend setter, i really do not see this idea spreading further to other countries or regions.

Also since the airline wants to be so open minded, why have they made a rule that candidates must have full surgery? So is it really as accepted as some posters like to believe?

PS. The only jobs transsexuals(ladyboys) have in the West is in gay bars and nowhere else. HOWEVER transvestites can have any jobs because while at work they do not dress up.

A major difference between transvestites and transsexuals is the extent to which their transgender activities pervade their lifestyle. Usually, those who have undergone reassignment surgery will live openly and constantly as their chosen sex. Transvestites will often confine their transgender activities to specific portions of their lives, remaining in traditional gender roles much of the time.

In major cities all over the world there are lady boys. All over Thailand there are lady boys. A very small percent of them are prostitutes. Your suggestion that they are prostitutes does them a great disservice. I have seen too many young children who were lady boys to think they had anything in their minds about the P4P industry. It is only your prejudice.

They may be not accepted in your part of the world but they are accepted in the US, UK, Australia, Italy, France and Germany.

Why are there so many lady boys in Thailand? If you look at Thai history especially Thai traditional dancing you see evidence of feminine male dancers from hundreds of years ago. I could speculate why but suffice it to say Thailand has a long and honored tradition of men dressing up like women and dancing.

That long tradition has spawned the modern lady boy culture.

Your statement that transsexuals are not accepted is not true in most of the western world. Estelle Asmodelle, actress, author, dancer & Australia's First Legal Transsexual, Courtney Act, singer, gender illusionist, Australian Idol semi-finalist, Pauline Pantsdown, Australian drag queen and musician. A more complete list is below.

http://www.changelin...us%20People.htm

Ladyboys are not accepted in the US nor are they even accepted here. Tolerated and exploited would be the better word for describing how they are viewed by much of Thailand. There is a creation tale involving a third sex but you are way off base in regards to saying traditional dance has anything to do with the number of ladyboys. Many countries have a history of men dressing like women including the theater.

I have no stats to back this up but do believe it is widely accepted that a large number of the men dressing as women and/or altering their body's sex are in the sex trade. At the very least the majority of them are using this to earn money be it in the sex trade or other ways such as ladyboy shows and pageants. I don't believe Thailand has a dispraporpriate number of gays and certainly not of those with gender identity issues but where Thailand does differ is a very thriving sex industry. No doubt there are many who are just every day working people or stay at home types but I really doubt that is the majority.

And again speaking in terms of the US and having lived there a long time, I never once came across a man dressed as a women in any business establishment. Certainly they work and hired by some but doubt there are too many companies who will put them in any kind of customer facing position. So please don't say it is accepted there.

[Beetlejuice]

This sounds like a load of cock and ball.

How about changing the name of Thai International to Thai Trans Vestitean Airways?

[kuffki]

In major cities all over the world there are lady boys. All over Thailand there are lady boys. A very small percent of them are prostitutes. Your suggestion that they are prostitutes does them a great disservice. I have seen too many young children who were lady boys to think they had anything in their minds about the P4P industry. It is only your prejudice.

They may be not accepted in your part of the world but they are accepted in the US, UK, Australia, Italy, France and Germany.

Why are there so many lady boys in Thailand? If you look at Thai history especially Thai traditional dancing you see evidence of feminine male dancers from hundreds of years ago. I could speculate why but suffice it to say Thailand has a long and honored tradition of men dressing up like women and dancing.

That long tradition has spawned the modern lady boy culture.

Your statement that transsexuals are not accepted is not true in most of the western world. Estelle Asmodelle, actress, author, dancer & Australia's First Legal Transsexual, Courtney Act, singer, gender illusionist, Australian Idol semi-finalist, Pauline Pantsdown, Australian drag queen and musician. A more complete list is below.

http://www.changelin...us%20People.htm

Accepted???? where???

Your list is not even 000.1% of the total population on earth.

Even take Australia for example, there are a handful of "artists" compared to thousands.

Again when you say ladyboy, do you refer to MEN dressing as WOMEN or MEN having the surgery to be WOMEN.?

Take the first guy from your list Courtney Act. His real name is Shane he is a young kid no surgery's nor does he live his life as a woman.

I know him personally from when he was 17 years old.

He is a gay guy who dresses in DRAG and does shows, however lives a life of a man.

He use to work for vodafone as customer service AS A MAN, he goes out to clubs like Stonewall, Arq and Midnight shift AS A MAN, unless he does a show.

In Sydney, there are approx 6 real ladyboys while everyone else is a man who dresses as a woman, but are gay

So as you can see i may know little more about the world then you may think.(Perhaps having owned, operated and manage a number of gay venues in Sydney for 6 odd years, gives me a little more insight into the world then just general observations)

You have seen too many young children who acted or behaved to appear GAY you did not see any children-boys who were actually living their life as girls, unless parents encouraged it.

A very small % are prostitutes??? when was the last time you visited Pattaya or Patpong or Nana or another 100's of places around Thailand?

While in the village, boys acting like girls may not be prostitutes, but once they hit the city's and try to get a job- things very quickly change.

It is NOT common to see ladyboy NOT Gay guy working in 7/11 or large retail chain. There is 1 in Carefour, 1 in Friendship, and few in different family marts or 7/11 and also i think 1 in Pattaya Memorial Hospital in Pattaya, while there are 1000+ all over the bars.

Ever seen ladyboy working in the bank serving customers? and i mean ladyboy not gay man.

Edited January 25, 2011 by kuffki

[mark45y]

Ladyboys are not accepted all around the world, in some countries they get jailed or killed.

Ladyboys are not very common in most other countries. Yes there are men who dress as women but only very few go through with the surgery and hormone treatment.

So why is it that there are so many ladyboys in Thailand? and it is so acceptable as some like to think(mind you i strongly disagree, as every time i see a Thai dealing with a ladyboy, they always laugh at them and rather speak not so very nice)

Why is it that with such a large number of ladyboys in Thailand, so many chose to be prostitutes? I can not help but wonder if it is truly a feeling of that person or just a way to make money.

Many people here seem to be little confused with the term. There are MAN who dress as a WOMAN, those are not ladyboys-transvestites

MAN who have the surgery, either full cut or just breasts and hormone treatment are the ladyboys-transsexuals

Gay and Lesbian is accepted worldwide, but transsexuals are NOT.

Considering that Thailand is not the center of the universe or a trend setter, i really do not see this idea spreading further to other countries or regions.

Also since the airline wants to be so open minded, why have they made a rule that candidates must have full surgery? So is it really as accepted as some posters like to believe?

PS. The only jobs transsexuals(ladyboys) have in the West is in gay bars and nowhere else. HOWEVER transvestites can have any jobs because while at work they do not dress up.

A major difference between transvestites and transsexuals is the extent to which their transgender activities pervade their lifestyle. Usually, those who have undergone reassignment surgery will live openly and constantly as their chosen sex. Transvestites will often confine their transgender activities to specific portions of their lives, remaining in traditional gender roles much of the time.

In major cities all over the world there are lady boys. All over Thailand there are lady boys. A very small percent of them are prostitutes. Your suggestion that they are prostitutes does them a great disservice. I have seen too many young children who were lady boys to think they had anything in their minds about the P4P industry. It is only your prejudice.

They may be not accepted in your part of the world but they are accepted in the US, UK, Australia, Italy, France and Germany.

Why are there so many lady boys in Thailand? If you look at Thai history especially Thai traditional dancing you see evidence of feminine male dancers from hundreds of years ago. I could speculate why but suffice it to say Thailand has a long and honored tradition of men dressing up like women and dancing.

That long tradition has spawned the modern lady boy culture.

Your statement that transsexuals are not accepted is not true in most of the western world. Estelle Asmodelle, actress, author, dancer & Australia's First Legal Transsexual, Courtney Act, singer, gender illusionist, Australian Idol semi-finalist, Pauline Pantsdown, Australian drag queen and musician. A more complete list is below.

http://www.changelin...us%20People.htm

Ladyboys are not accepted in the US nor are they even accepted here. Tolerated and exploited would be the better word for describing how they are viewed by much of Thailand. There is a creation tale involving a third sex but you are way off base in regards to saying traditional dance has anything to do with the number of ladyboys. Many countries have a history of men dressing like women including the theater.

I have no stats to back this up but do believe it is widely accepted that a large number of the men dressing as women and/or altering their body's sex are in the sex trade. At the very least the majority of them are using this to earn money be it in the sex trade or other ways such as ladyboy shows and pageants. I don't believe Thailand has a dispraporpriate number of gays and certainly not of those with gender identity issues but where Thailand does differ is a very thriving sex industry. No doubt there are many who are just every day working people or stay at home types but I really doubt that is the majority.

And again speaking in terms of the US and having lived there a long time, I never once came across a man dressed as a women in any business establishment. Certainly they work and hired by some but doubt there are too many companies who will put them in any kind of customer facing position. So please don't say it is accepted there.

I would say you are a small town boy. NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, New Orleans, Miami, Tampa just to name a few. How do I know? I ran restaurants in those places and used lady boys as waitresses in all of them. Chicago was the funniest story. My restaurant was across the street from the headquarters of Kraft foods. One of the executives fell in love with one of my lady boy cocktail waitresses. He didn't know she was a he. She asked me to tell him.

Below is a picture that can be duplicated in most government schools throughout Thailand. This kid is just a normal Thai lady boy child. Trust me he never thought about future employment.

I stand my my original statement lady boys work in major cities all over the US no problem in normal jobs and the same is true but more so in Thailand.

There are more lady boys employed in just malls and 7/11's than all the lady boys in Pattaya combined.

[mark45y]

In major cities all over the world there are lady boys. All over Thailand there are lady boys. A very small percent of them are prostitutes. Your suggestion that they are prostitutes does them a great disservice. I have seen too many young children who were lady boys to think they had anything in their minds about the P4P industry. It is only your prejudice.

They may be not accepted in your part of the world but they are accepted in the US, UK, Australia, Italy, France and Germany.

Why are there so many lady boys in Thailand? If you look at Thai history especially Thai traditional dancing you see evidence of feminine male dancers from hundreds of years ago. I could speculate why but suffice it to say Thailand has a long and honored tradition of men dressing up like women and dancing.

That long tradition has spawned the modern lady boy culture.

Your statement that transsexuals are not accepted is not true in most of the western world. Estelle Asmodelle, actress, author, dancer & Australia's First Legal Transsexual, Courtney Act, singer, gender illusionist, Australian Idol semi-finalist, Pauline Pantsdown, Australian drag queen and musician. A more complete list is below.

http://www.changelin...us%20People.htm

Accepted???? where???

Your list is not even 000.1% of the total population on earth.

Even take Australia for example, there are a handful of "artists" compared to thousands.

Again when you say ladyboy, do you refer to MEN dressing as WOMEN or MEN having the surgery to be WOMEN.?

Take the first guy from your list Courtney Act. His real name is Shane he is a young kid no surgery's nor does he live his life as a woman.

I know him personally from when he was 17 years old.

He is a gay guy who dresses in DRAG and does shows, however lives a life of a man.

He use to work for vodafone as customer service AS A MAN, he goes out to clubs like Stonewall, Arq and Midnight shift AS A MAN, unless he does a show.

In Sydney, there are approx 6 real ladyboys while everyone else is a man who dresses as a woman, but are gay

So as you can see i may know little more about the world then you may think.(Perhaps having owned, operated and manage a number of gay venues in Sydney for 6 odd years, gives me a little more insight into the world then just general observations)

You have seen too many young children who acted or behaved to appear GAY you did not see any children-boys who were actually living their life as girls, unless parents encouraged it.

A very small % are prostitutes??? when was the last time you visited Pattaya or Patpong or Nana or another 100's of places around Thailand?

While in the village, boys acting like girls may not be prostitutes, but once they hit the city's and try to get a job- things very quickly change.

It is NOT common to see ladyboy NOT Gay guy working in 7/11 or large retail chain. There is 1 in Carefour, 1 in Friendship, and few in different family marts or 7/11 and also i think 1 in Pattaya Memorial Hospital in Pattaya, while there are 1000+ all over the bars.

Ever seen ladyboy working in the bank serving customers? and i mean ladyboy not gay man.

I was at Lamtong mall last week. I counted 5 lady boys working there. I saw 6 lady boys in college uniforms on the bus during the last month. I have seen at least one lady boy at those facial places in upscale malls, Wattana something in three different towns during the last month. I look because the uniforms are cream colored short dresses and heels.

At the Tesco Lotus where I shop there are 4 lady boys employed. At Big C in Ranyong 5 or 6 that I can remember.

KFC has some cute ones except for the tattoos.

I am calling a lady boy a male who dresses as a female for work.

Your idea of gender reassignment to be called a lady boy is silly. That is a trans gendered person not a lady boy. Most lady boys keep their tackle because the husbands or significant others like it. I know a number of lady boy teachers.

5 and 6 year old boys in schools who wear skirts not shorts are lady boys, sorry, this is real. Their parents must approve who else would buy the school uniforms.

A short search on the INTERNET located quite a few lady boys in Sydney. A lot more than six.

Thats why I wanted to define lady boy to begin with. I am not now nor was not talking about surgically trans gendered people.

Banks? I don't know. Not at the ones I go to but I will look closer and get back to you.

PS a guy who does drag shows and likes males to sleep with is in my mind a lady boy.

Edited January 25, 2011 by mark45y

[Jingthing]

There are so many variations with gender presentation. Certainly a man dressing in a clown like drag costume is not the same thing as a bona fide transsexual who can "pass" as a woman (whether intact or not). Obviously this presentation level will impact on employment prospects. I like to bring up an interesting factoid when this subject comes up. What country do you reckon does the second most sex change surgeries after Thailand (which is tops)?

[Nisa]

There are so many variations with gender presentation. Certainly a man dressing in a clown like drag costume is not the same thing as a bona fide transsexual who can "pass" as a woman (whether intact or not). Obviously this presentation level will impact on employment prospects. I like to bring up an interesting factoid when this subject comes up. What country do you reckon does the second most sex change surgeries after Thailand (which is tops)?

You should ask Mark45. For some reason he appears to count them every time he goes out.

[bangon04]

A new take on the classic song - "I'm Bandy....Fly Me"

[mark45y]

There are so many variations with gender presentation. Certainly a man dressing in a clown like drag costume is not the same thing as a bona fide transsexual who can "pass" as a woman (whether intact or not). Obviously this presentation level will impact on employment prospects. I like to bring up an interesting factoid when this subject comes up. What country do you reckon does the second most sex change surgeries after Thailand (which is tops)?

You should ask Mark45. For some reason he appears to count them every time he goes out.

Sure I know. Iran.

[Nisa]

There are so many variations with gender presentation. Certainly a man dressing in a clown like drag costume is not the same thing as a bona fide transsexual who can "pass" as a woman (whether intact or not). Obviously this presentation level will impact on employment prospects. I like to bring up an interesting factoid when this subject comes up. What country do you reckon does the second most sex change surgeries after Thailand (which is tops)?

This actually is a good question. I think Thailand rates number one because of its reputation for openness about sex and its low cost cosmetic surgery. Other places are also becoming destinations for those looking for low cost medical procedures but Thailand got the reputation first for a place to go for good quality and low cost cosmetic related surgeries as well as sex change operations. So, not sure if India is too well known for breast implants, sex changes or cosmetic surgeries but know a lot of people go there for cheap health related surgeries.

My guess might have first been the US given the population size, income levels and laws but I bet a lot of people in the US may travel to Canada and possibly Mexico for cheaper options ... especially if the surgery is not covered by insurance.

[SweatiePie]

............

In Sydney, there are approx 6 real ladyboys while everyone else is a man who dresses as a woman, but are gay

..............

So as you can see i may know little more about the world then you may think

..............

You have seen too many young children who acted or behaved to appear GAY you did not see any children-boys who were actually living their life as girls, unless parents encouraged it.

A very small % are prostitutes??? when was the last time you visited Pattaya or Patpong or Nana or another 100's of places around Thailand?

............

It is NOT common to see ladyboy NOT Gay guy working in 7/11 or large retail chain. There is 1 in Carefour, 1 in Friendship, and few in different family marts or 7/11 and also i think 1 in Pattaya Memorial Hospital in Pattaya, while there are 1000+ all over the bars.

Ever seen ladyboy working in the bank serving customers? and i mean ladyboy not gay man.

The only post you have made in this thread worth replying to, as it is so outrageously inaccurate that it is almost amusing.

Only 6 people in Sydney have had GRS (male to female)? On what do you base that statistic? The Gender Centre in Petersham would totally disagree with your figure..

Pattaya, Patpong and Nana - and the percentage of the population working there as prostitutes are representative of Thailand as a whole? No more so than the red light districts in other major cities, which you appear to know rather well.

Ladyboys (TGs) in 7/11 and Lotus Express - probably around 1 in 20 in many urban areas, particularly in Chonburi province and Bangkok; Carrefour (Pattaya) - I know 7 in the supermarket and rather more working in the mall; I do not know anyone in Friendship or PMH so I cannot comment, but I know more than 20 TGs working in Bangkok Pattaya Hospital; in the banks - it is so commonplace that I barely notice it.

I000+ TGs "all over the bars" - I only know 2.

Are the numbers of TGs I know any more indicative of the actual numbers than those you know? I don't imagine so for a minute - I am sure there are far more than 2 TGs working in Pattaya's sex industry for example (!) - but just because I do not know them does not mean that is all there are any more than those few you know or know of outside the sex industry is any sort of indicator of numbers.

Your experience running "gay venues" and your "insight into the world" may be useful to anyone wanting to know about your world, but unfortunately your insider knowledge of the sex industry does not appear to extend to the world outside it.

[mark45y]

There are so many variations with gender presentation. Certainly a man dressing in a clown like drag costume is not the same thing as a bona fide transsexual who can "pass" as a woman (whether intact or not). Obviously this presentation level will impact on employment prospects. I like to bring up an interesting factoid when this subject comes up. What country do you reckon does the second most sex change surgeries after Thailand (which is tops)?

This actually is a good question. I think Thailand rates number one because of its reputation for openness about sex and its low cost cosmetic surgery. Other places are also becoming destinations for those looking for low cost medical procedures but Thailand got the reputation first for a place to go for good quality and low cost cosmetic related surgeries as well as sex change operations. So, not sure if India is too well known for breast implants, sex changes or cosmetic surgeries but know a lot of people go there for cheap health related surgeries.

My guess might have first been the US given the population size, income levels and laws but I bet a lot of people in the US may travel to Canada and possibly Mexico for cheaper options ... especially if the surgery is not covered by insurance.

I think Thailand ranks number one for taking them off and putting them back on. I won't go into the similar motivations.

[Jingthing]

Yes, it's Iran. One of the most repressive countries in the world for gay men. If they wish to stay alive in Iran and have any sex life/social life they are encouraged to become women through surgery. Imagine that, chopping it off when you don't even want to, as gay men generally certainly don't want to!

[gatecrasher]

Back at DM airport, years ago, I was stuck in a transit space with other passengers - waiting for hours for a delayed take-off. On the intercom, there were loud (very loud, as it has to be in Thailand) announcements every minute or so. The voice was obviously a trans-sexual (I hesitate to say the 'k' word on T.Visa, for fear of being bounced). There was muted giggling adjoining each announcement. For some people, that may seem fine, but others of us don't particularly like being loudly spoken at, with a feminine man's overly-effeminate voice accompanied by giggling - periodically for hours on end.

That must have been pure torture, you poor thing!

Edited January 25, 2011 by gatecrasher

[gatecrasher]

Will have to reconsider sitting on the aisle. Do not want to get a surprise when one of these TV air hostess has to stretch to close the overhead compartment. Crotch bulge on skirts is not what I look forward to when I think of air hostess.

Oh, poor boy. Such a shame you're learning the world isn't just made for you . Hope it doesn't spoil your erotic fantasizing each time you board a plane !!!

[endure]

PS. The only jobs transsexuals(ladyboys) have in the West is in gay bars and nowhere else.

Over the past 10 years I've watched a man who works in the tobacco/newspaper kiosk in our local supermarket transform himself completely into a woman, snip and all. I'll bet that Sainsburys will be quite surprised when they find out they're running gay bars

[Bagwan]

I wonder how some of those commenting here displaying their Neanderthal leanings feel about female pilots. Would they prefer to walk?

I understand that the Thai military authorities used to classify transsexuals as deformed, suffering from mental disorder or permanently insane. If the macho, in thought but probably not in deed, generals can draw back and show compassion and understanding why cannot the ignorant who posture here? Babies are born with Downs Syndrome, some have deformities, many have birthmarks and some are born with sexual preferences that are not mainstream. Do they induce revulsion and should be kept in isolation? Ladyboys are born with their latent desires, it is in their genes, and as they develop the inclination comes to the fore. I don't think anybody wants to be different, they just are. I admire them for their courage in the face of widespread unwarranted hostility which many face every day.

If you cannot understand the phenomenon or are transphobic, the problem isn't with ladyboys. The real problem is you. Your attitude is little better than the knuckle scraping moron who thinks that you deserve a battering for supporting a football team other than the one that he does.

[MUYTHAI]

I only hope Pattaya ladyboys do not hear of the news! Or i am afraid passengers will be harassed in the air just as much as on the ground.

i also hope the airline is prepared to lose some customers, there is a large number of people who do not accept so called third sex.

Are you serious? I know of nobody who would not fly a given airline because there might be a ladyboy attendant. I have seen many blatantly homosexual male airline attendants and I have even seen transexual male to female attendents on international and Thai airlines. There are people who would choose to fly airlines with ladyboys, just as there are people who are heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual who go to ladyboy caberet shows, etc. because they are fascinated, curious, etc about ladyboys. I believe PC Air is avant-garde and 'ahead of the curve' in this regard.

Edited January 25, 2011 by MUYTHAI

[MUYTHAI]

Another transsexual applicant, Panthakan Sri-ngern, 24, said she once applied for a hostess position at another airline but wasn't chosen.

What is even sadder is the other airline was a cargo carrier.

But seriously ... I wonder if any part of this story is even true. "PC" Airlines forcing males to cut off their penis before being considered for a job??? Only considering females and penisless men??? Having a cap of 3 penisless men?? The chairmen of "Rainbow Sky of Thailand" giving his thumbs-up??? The executive they quote from the airline is Peter Chan (Peter=western term for penis & Chan = I or my in Thai ... in other words My Penis) ??? And they just showed up yesterday (no news prior talking about this) at Esplanade to "look for" transexual hostesses ???

Could this have been some college kids pulling a gag?

There sure is much farang ignorance here on TV concerning this topic. Google 'Gender Identity Dismorphia or Gender Identity Disorder and learn something before you make stupid comments. I have read that the Thai government estimates there are 180,000 ladyboys in Thailand. Some say the number is over 200,000. There are many ladyboys in all Asian countries where they are not seriously repressed (.e.g. China, North Korea). I see them all over the Philippines, Singapore, Indo, Malaysia, Japan, etc. Only a very small percentage are prostitutes...probably no more than the percentage of woman who are. Their brain gender ranges form extremely female to borderline male/female. There is no 'black and white' only concerning their brain gender and there are many shades of grey. Some want Gender Reassignment Surgery (GRS) and some don't. Some ladyboys are so passable that even their female coworkers do not know they are ladyboys. The typical ladyboys that people see are the ones that are obviously not passable. Anyone who believes that ladyboys choose to become a ladyboy so they can become a prostitute is deleriously stupid and ignorant. Almost all wish they were never born the way they were and wish they were born a true female. The first European explorers to arrive in Asia commented on ladyboys in their writtings. Some scientists (including me) believe that there is a higher percentage of ladyboys in Asia because Asians have lower testosterone levels than other races. A study indicated that Asians have the lowest testosterone levels and the Portuguese have the highest of the groups tested. Seems to make sense given that Portuguese males have much body hair and Asians have very little... which is caused by testosterone...and genes. Others believe there are more ladyboys in Asia because of the centuries of tolerance and current tolerance compared to other countries. All Human fetuses are female by default and change to male if the fetus possesses a X chromosome with an intact SRY portion on the chromosome and if the fetus is not afflicted with Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (PAIS) or Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS). If a male fetus does not receive enough male hormone during a cetain stage during brain development, the brain remains female... because it is female by default. The amount of male hormone produced by a 'normal' male fetus determines whether the brain will stay female, develop into male, or become one of the many 'shades of grey'. The reason(s) why not enough male hormone is produced during the critical time of brain gender development is not fully understood. It is postulated that it is due to genetic reasons, environmental factors, or dietary factors of the mother. Because it is common in all Asian cultures where oppression is not harsh, it probably is due to genetic factors. This belief is backed up by the study of male hormone quantities in different racial and subracial groups. For people with GID, their sexual identitiy is not a choice. There are many more people with GID in the younger US population who are 'out of the closet' now as discrimination against them eases in the US. Now reread my second statement and use 'Google' or your favorite search engine.

Edited January 25, 2011 by MUYTHAI

[MUYTHAI]

There sure is much farang ignorance here on TV concerning this topic. Google 'Gender Identity Dismorphia' or 'Gender Identity Disorder' and learn something before you make stupid comments. I have read that the Thai government estimates there are 180,000 ladyboys in Thailand. Some say the number is over 200,000. There are many ladyboys in all Asian countries where they are not seriously oppressed (e.g. China, North Korea). I see them all over the Philippines, Singapore, Indo, Malaysia, Japan, etc. Only a very small percentage are prostitutes...probably no more than the percentage of woman who are. Their brain gender ranges form extremely female to borderline male/female. There is no 'black and white' only concerning their brain gender and there are many shades of grey. Some want Gender Reassignment Surgery (GRS) and some don't. Being pre op or post op has nothing to do with the definition of a ladyboy. A ladyboy can be either. Also, cross dressers are not transgenders... such as a ladyboy. Ladyboys are transgendered males 'afflicted' with GID. Some ladyboys are so passable that even their female coworkers do not know they are ladyboys. The typical ladyboys that people see are the ones that are obviously not passable. Anyone who believes that ladyboys choose to become a ladyboy so they can become a prostitute is seriously stupid and ignorant. Almost all wish they were never born the way they were and wish they were born a true female. The first European explorers to arrive in Asia commented on ladyboys in their writtings. Some scientists (including me) believe that there is a higher percentage of ladyboys in Asia because Asians have lower testosterone levels than other races. A study indicated that Asians have the lowest testosterone levels and the Portuguese have the highest of the groups tested. Seems to make sense given that Portuguese males have much body hair and Asians have very little... which is caused by testosterone...and genes. Others believe there are more ladyboys in Asia because of the centuries of tolerance and current tolerance compared to other countries. All Human fetuses are female by default and change to male if the fetus possesses a X chromosome with an intact SRY portion on the chromosome and if the fetus is not afflicted with Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (PAIS) or Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS). If a male fetus does not receive enough male hormone during a cetain stage during brain development, the brain remains female... because it is female by default. The amount of male hormone produced by a 'normal' male fetus determines whether the brain will stay female, develop into male, or become one of the many 'shades of grey'. The reason(s) why not enough male hormone is produced during the critical time of brain gender development is not fully understood. It is postulated that it is due to genetic reasons, environmental factors, or dietary factors of the mother. Because ladyboys are common in all Asian cultures where oppression is not harsh (and thus they are not 'in the closet' pretending to be normal heterosexual males), it probably is due to genetic factors. This belief is backed up by the study of male hormone quantities in different racial and subracial groups. For people with GID, their sexual identitiy is not a choice. There are many more people with GID in the younger US population who are 'out of the closet' now as discrimination against them eases in the US. Now reread my second statement and use 'Google' or your favorite search engine.

Edited January 25, 2011 by MUYTHAI

[kuffki]

............

In Sydney, there are approx 6 real ladyboys while everyone else is a man who dresses as a woman, but are gay

..............

So as you can see i may know little more about the world then you may think

..............

You have seen too many young children who acted or behaved to appear GAY you did not see any children-boys who were actually living their life as girls, unless parents encouraged it.

A very small % are prostitutes??? when was the last time you visited Pattaya or Patpong or Nana or another 100's of places around Thailand?

............

It is NOT common to see ladyboy NOT Gay guy working in 7/11 or large retail chain. There is 1 in Carefour, 1 in Friendship, and few in different family marts or 7/11 and also i think 1 in Pattaya Memorial Hospital in Pattaya, while there are 1000+ all over the bars.

Ever seen ladyboy working in the bank serving customers? and i mean ladyboy not gay man.

The only post you have made in this thread worth replying to, as it is so outrageously inaccurate that it is almost amusing.

Only 6 people in Sydney have had GRS (male to female)? On what do you base that statistic? The Gender Centre in Petersham would totally disagree with your figure..

Pattaya, Patpong and Nana - and the percentage of the population working there as prostitutes are representative of Thailand as a whole? No more so than the red light districts in other major cities, which you appear to know rather well.

Ladyboys (TGs) in 7/11 and Lotus Express - probably around 1 in 20 in many urban areas, particularly in Chonburi province and Bangkok; Carrefour (Pattaya) - I know 7 in the supermarket and rather more working in the mall; I do not know anyone in Friendship or PMH so I cannot comment, but I know more than 20 TGs working in Bangkok Pattaya Hospital; in the banks - it is so commonplace that I barely notice it.

I000+ TGs "all over the bars" - I only know 2.

Are the numbers of TGs I know any more indicative of the actual numbers than those you know? I don't imagine so for a minute - I am sure there are far more than 2 TGs working in Pattaya's sex industry for example (!) - but just because I do not know them does not mean that is all there are any more than those few you know or know of outside the sex industry is any sort of indicator of numbers.

Your experience running "gay venues" and your "insight into the world" may be useful to anyone wanting to know about your world, but unfortunately your insider knowledge of the sex industry does not appear to extend to the world outside it.

I make my reply very short as your post does not even deserve a response. Since you know7 working in Carefour, i suggest we meet and go to Carefour in Pattaya and thats the one i posted about and you can point the 7 you know.

May be you can also explain to me how you manage to compare all of the population of Thailand to the ones working in sex industry, and where in my posts did i bring up all of the population?

After we do all that, perhaps you could underline or make it in red where i posted my knowledge of the sex industry.

[kuffki]

I only hope Pattaya ladyboys do not hear of the news! Or i am afraid passengers will be harassed in the air just as much as on the ground.

i also hope the airline is prepared to lose some customers, there is a large number of people who do not accept so called third sex.

Are you serious? I know of nobody who would not fly a given airline because there might be a ladyboy attendant. I have seen many blatantly homosexual male airline attendants and I have even seen transexual male to female attendents on international and Thai airlines. There are people who would choose to fly airlines with ladyboys, just as there are people who are heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual who go to ladyboy caberet shows, etc. because they are fascinated, curious, etc about ladyboys. I believe PC Air is avant-garde and 'ahead of the curve' in this regard.

am i serious about what? About Pattaya ladyboys applying for a job? or Pattaya ladyboys harassing people? or people not flying with the airline?

Just because you know of nobody, it really does not make a good argument. As you have noticed just on TV alone there are a number of people who already said they would not. Now take the rest of the world, the ones who you do not know and think about posting again.

[kuffki]

In major cities all over the world there are lady boys. All over Thailand there are lady boys. A very small percent of them are prostitutes. Your suggestion that they are prostitutes does them a great disservice. I have seen too many young children who were lady boys to think they had anything in their minds about the P4P industry. It is only your prejudice.

They may be not accepted in your part of the world but they are accepted in the US, UK, Australia, Italy, France and Germany.

Why are there so many lady boys in Thailand? If you look at Thai history especially Thai traditional dancing you see evidence of feminine male dancers from hundreds of years ago. I could speculate why but suffice it to say Thailand has a long and honored tradition of men dressing up like women and dancing.

That long tradition has spawned the modern lady boy culture.

Your statement that transsexuals are not accepted is not true in most of the western world. Estelle Asmodelle, actress, author, dancer & Australia's First Legal Transsexual, Courtney Act, singer, gender illusionist, Australian Idol semi-finalist, Pauline Pantsdown, Australian drag queen and musician. A more complete list is below.

http://www.changelin...us%20People.htm

Accepted???? where???

Your list is not even 000.1% of the total population on earth.

Even take Australia for example, there are a handful of "artists" compared to thousands.

Again when you say ladyboy, do you refer to MEN dressing as WOMEN or MEN having the surgery to be WOMEN.?

Take the first guy from your list Courtney Act. His real name is Shane he is a young kid no surgery's nor does he live his life as a woman.

I know him personally from when he was 17 years old.

He is a gay guy who dresses in DRAG and does shows, however lives a life of a man.

He use to work for vodafone as customer service AS A MAN, he goes out to clubs like Stonewall, Arq and Midnight shift AS A MAN, unless he does a show.

In Sydney, there are approx 6 real ladyboys while everyone else is a man who dresses as a woman, but are gay

So as you can see i may know little more about the world then you may think.(Perhaps having owned, operated and manage a number of gay venues in Sydney for 6 odd years, gives me a little more insight into the world then just general observations)

You have seen too many young children who acted or behaved to appear GAY you did not see any children-boys who were actually living their life as girls, unless parents encouraged it.

A very small % are prostitutes??? when was the last time you visited Pattaya or Patpong or Nana or another 100's of places around Thailand?

While in the village, boys acting like girls may not be prostitutes, but once they hit the city's and try to get a job- things very quickly change.

It is NOT common to see ladyboy NOT Gay guy working in 7/11 or large retail chain. There is 1 in Carefour, 1 in Friendship, and few in different family marts or 7/11 and also i think 1 in Pattaya Memorial Hospital in Pattaya, while there are 1000+ all over the bars.

Ever seen ladyboy working in the bank serving customers? and i mean ladyboy not gay man.

I was at Lamtong mall last week. I counted 5 lady boys working there. I saw 6 lady boys in college uniforms on the bus during the last month. I have seen at least one lady boy at those facial places in upscale malls, Wattana something in three different towns during the last month. I look because the uniforms are cream colored short dresses and heels.

At the Tesco Lotus where I shop there are 4 lady boys employed. At Big C in Ranyong 5 or 6 that I can remember.

KFC has some cute ones except for the tattoos.

I am calling a lady boy a male who dresses as a female for work.

Your idea of gender reassignment to be called a lady boy is silly. That is a trans gendered person not a lady boy. Most lady boys keep their tackle because the husbands or significant others like it. I know a number of lady boy teachers.

5 and 6 year old boys in schools who wear skirts not shorts are lady boys, sorry, this is real. Their parents must approve who else would buy the school uniforms.

A short search on the INTERNET located quite a few lady boys in Sydney. A lot more than six.

Thats why I wanted to define lady boy to begin with. I am not now nor was not talking about surgically trans gendered people.

Banks? I don't know. Not at the ones I go to but I will look closer and get back to you.

PS a guy who does drag shows and likes males to sleep with is in my mind a lady boy.

Ok, so now we have cleared it up. I DO NOT call man dressing as a woman a lady boy. I ONLY call man who have had some kind of surgery(being breasts addition or another part removal) and hormone treatment a ladyboy.

The quick search on Internet located man who dress as women and i have already posted for you about one of those man.

Since Google search does not tell you about their private life, i am not sure how you would call them ladyboys, simply because being a lady boy (term used by you or me) could be just their job NOT their life and again Courtney Act was a perfect example of that

But even with the amount you have seen in your neck of woods, is just a tiny %., my examples were of Pattaya and the majority are in the sex industry

[siampolee]

As a matter of interest, no one seems to have any comments concerting being attended to by lesbian flight attendants, this would seem to indicate that a certain percentage of our worthy posters are a trifle afraid of their own hidden sexual preferences.

Lady boys, Bad Lesbians, no comments or such gender types are even acceptable.

Perchance the fantasy of a sexual tryst with a male orientated lady tittilates the fancy of the macho male wanna be lady boy in the closet anti lady boy posters.,

[brahmburgers]

All this talk about the many categories of sexuality - is confusing.

As I see it, there are males and females. Some men and women are gay. Some men and women get hormone treatments and possibly also surgery to try to segue to the other sexual orientation. Oops, I'm doing the same darn thing. By trying to simplify the categories, I wind up making many differentiations - and that's not near as many as the many categories which have been put forth in this thread.

Because I reside far from Pattaya, Bkk and Phuket, I have little interaction with aggressive types of katoy. However, the few times I've visited those places, I've been approached, hassled, nearly fondled, yelled at in public by katoy. People usually form opinions from their personal experiences. In contrast, I also know katoy in non-soliciting environments, like tending to shops, etc., and have no problems with them. Who can say what percentage are aggressive, easily-offended, quick-to-anger & recrimination, and which percentage are essentially ok?

I acknowledge that Thailand is probably the sex-change capital of the world, and that it probably has the highest % of katoy worldwide. Whether that's good or bad or a big 'mai pen rai' is up to individual's perception.

[brahmburgers]

As a matter of interest, no one seems to have any comments concerting being attended to by lesbian flight attendants, this would seem to indicate that a certain percentage of our worthy posters are a trifle afraid of their own hidden sexual preferences.

Lady boys, Bad Lesbians, no comments or such gender types are even acceptable.

Perchance the fantasy of a sexual tryst with a male orientated lady tittilates the fancy of the macho male wanna be lady boy in the closet anti lady boy posters.,

I think you're the one titillated. Doesn't affect me in that way at all.