Hiring Foreign Workers?

[mixed]

Is anybody familiar with the procedure for legally hiring workers from Laos, Cambodia or Burma? From what I understand, you need to contact the labor office in the area, which we have done, however they weren't very helpful.

We are looking for two ppl, preferably a couple, to look after 4 rai of land.

[samran]

A bit constrained for time at the moment (and the precise steps), but look back over some topics I started around Aug-Oct 2009 for info.

We hired a Burmese maid back then, and it is easy to get them the required paperwork (along with Cambodians and Laotians), given that Thailand allows people from these countries to work on a migrant workers scheme. It gives the access also to the Thai social services system as well, which is good for them (especially health care and school for their kids).

The problem is that the system was undergoing a massive change (for the better) back around then, and it differed substantially from the previous system.

Under the previous system, registration to hire new (previously illegal) workers was opened up once per year so that Thai's could get workers legal. All done at the Labour office, usually around June, as I recall.

The steps were roughly - get the paperwork at the Labour Office, register the worker with the Ampur, getting them an ID number, then back to the labour office to get the final paperwork. Renew annually.

Today all workers need a migrants worker passport, which basically requires them to travel back to their home country to get the document issued. They enter Thailand and are given a special non-immigrant visa on arrival, and then the labour department and immigration together issue their work permits. Work permits last 2 years, extendable for another 2 years. I can't remember the exact order though.

The reason why the labour office is probably being 'difficult' is that (under the old system at least) they were unable to register new, previously undocumented workers until the cabinet issued a decree to do so. This was traditionally once per year and predictable, but that was the old system.

I am not sure if that system is still the case in terms of 'opening up' registrations annually.

If you are wanting to hire people who already have their documents in order, then it is easy to transfer their work permits to you. But if they don't then you'll need to go to the labour office and ask 'when' they will start registering new workers.

Edited January 25, 2011 by samran

[mixed]

Thanks for the very helpful reply, There are many migrant workers in our area, so if possible we would like to hire one. The labor office said the didn't have a list of migrants looking for work. Any ideas on how to find ppl already in the area?

[samran]

Thanks for the very helpful reply, There are many migrant workers in our area, so if possible we would like to hire one. The labor office said the didn't have a list of migrants looking for work. Any ideas on how to find ppl already in the area?

Ask around - word of mouth really. That's how it worked for us. We were in the market for a burmese maid/nanny, and had no shortage of inquiries once we got the word around.

[mstribling]

Why is the workers nationality part of the equation? I'm just curious. Not an attack.

[robblok]

Why is the workers nationality part of the equation? I'm just curious. Not an attack.

Foreign workers are a lot cheaper. That is probably the reason.

[mstribling]

Got it. Same reason Thais use them.

[mixed]

Why is the workers nationality part of the equation? I'm just curious. Not an attack.

There are several reasons, the biggest one being that we need ppl who will stay around. Thais tend to leave due to family and other reasons - rice planting is not that far away and the ppl staying now will leave in a few months.

[mixed]

Thanks for the very helpful reply, There are many migrant workers in our area, so if possible we would like to hire one. The labor office said the didn't have a list of migrants looking for work. Any ideas on how to find ppl already in the area?

Ask around - word of mouth really. That's how it worked for us. We were in the market for a burmese maid/nanny, and had no shortage of inquiries once we got the word around.

As we will almost certainly be offering better pay and conditions than local employers, I'm concerned that we may draw workers away from them, which they may resent. If we were able to find workers in Bkk, would it be difficult/expensive to register them in a neighboring province?

[samran]

Why is the workers nationality part of the equation? I'm just curious. Not an attack.

Thailand allows migrant workers from Burma, Laos and Cambodia to enter and basically be issued work permits for all sorts of (mainly) lower end jobs ranging from domestic help, admin work etc to labouring.

Unlike 'traditional' work permits for other nationalities it allows both company and private individuals to be the sponsors of these work permits. Additionally, they are issued for 2 years at a time, gives the migrant worker an ID number and ID card, and allows for the regularisation of the status of their families, and access to social services.

[mixed]

Why is the workers nationality part of the equation? I'm just curious. Not an attack.

Thailand allows migrant workers from Burma, Laos and Cambodia to enter and basically be issued work permits for all sorts of (mainly) lower end jobs ranging from domestic help, admin work etc to labouring.

Unlike 'traditional' work permits for other nationalities it allows both company and private individuals to be the sponsors of these work permits. Additionally, they are issued for 2 years at a time, gives the migrant worker an ID number and ID card, and allows for the regularisation of the status of their families, and access to social services.

As the work permits are issued by employers, I imagine it would be difficult to hire someone with an existing permit?

[mstribling]

A small suggestion. Pay them the same rate as the Thais do. This is exactly why prices are always driven up for farangs.

I understand how you feel. Good luck with your staff.

[swissie]

I am thrilled: My Thai-Wife hires me as her "Maid" and I can gain access to "Thai Social Services." Otherwise I could not ! This makes my day ! Cheers.

[samran]

Mixed - no it shouldn't be a problem. As long as it is a migrant worker permit then organising the transfer shouldn't be an issue. It is done all the time. The main issue is that they need to be currently legal with the right papers - ie already in the system.

If they are her without papers, it will be possible to get them legal, it is just a question of when the government opens up registration for them.

Swisse - you need to re-read my posts. This programme is only available to citizens of burma, laos and cambodia.

Sure your wife can hire you, but she'll need to set up a company to do that and then pay 1500 a month to social security.

[mixed]

Sure your wife can hire you, but she'll need to set up a company to do that and then pay 1500 a month to social security.

Thanks again for the info. In an earlier post you mentioned that individuals could hire 'aliens', so I take it a company isn't always necessary?Also, regarding the B1,500, is this a requirement for all foreign workers?

[samran]

That's right - individuals can easily hire legally a migrant worker from a neighbouring country in their own right without the need to get a company to be the employer. I have thai citizenship so with an I'd card it is pretty straightforward.

That isn't to say thai companies can't take advantage of the same scheme. While I am less familiar with the requirements there I do believe they are less stringent (eg no need for a certain amount of paid up capital nor any need for a particular ratio of thai to foreign workers as would be required for 'normal' work permits for other nationalities.)

There is a small processing fee for the permits 1900 baht I think and a annual contribution of something in the range of 1500 baht to contribute to the hospital linked health plan they enter. A small fee also at the ampur to register them there too (30 baht?) And other misc fees.

All worth it though I think as you have a legal migrant worker with access to social services and who are very appreciative of employers who do the right thing by them.

[Thongkorn]

Why is the workers nationality part of the equation? I'm just curious. Not an attack.

Foreign workers are a lot cheaper. That is probably the reason.

spot on. Even Thai factory's want Burmese people, they will work for half what a Thai gets payed. Sahmut Sahkon is full of factory's owned by the Japanese full of Burmese, Thats one of the things that is contributing to the problems in Thailand , because Thai people who want to work cannot find jobs.

[Livinginexile]

Thanks for the very helpful reply, There are many migrant workers in our area, so if possible we would like to hire one. The labor office said the didn't have a list of migrants looking for work. Any ideas on how to find ppl already in the area?

They would need a work permit, just like any other expat looking for work Thailand.

In order for you to secure a work permit for the expat worker, your company would have to employ 8 Thais for every one permit granted.

Do you have a company hiring Thais? Have you got a fully paid up capital?

Do you have a valid work visa yourself?

Why do you need to hire a non Thai in Thailand?

Cheeper?

[samran]

Thanks for the very helpful reply, There are many migrant workers in our area, so if possible we would like to hire one. The labor office said the didn't have a list of migrants looking for work. Any ideas on how to find ppl already in the area?

They would need a work permit, just like any other expat looking for work Thailand.

In order for you to secure a work permit for the expat worker, your company would have to employ 8 Thais for every one permit granted.

Do you have a company hiring Thais? Have you got a fully paid up capital?

Do you have a valid work visa yourself?

Why do you need to hire a non Thai in Thailand?

Cheeper?

You've missed the point of the entire thread. There is a special scheme in Thailand which allows individuals and companies to hire Lao, Burmese and Cambodian workers without the restrictions you mention.

There is no need to prove why you want to hire them over a Thai, only that you keep them legal and get them into the social security system. Also, just because they are foreign, doesn't mean you are allowed to pay them less than minimum wage.

[Livinginexile]

Thanks for the very helpful reply, There are many migrant workers in our area, so if possible we would like to hire one. The labor office said the didn't have a list of migrants looking for work. Any ideas on how to find ppl already in the area?

They would need a work permit, just like any other expat looking for work Thailand.

In order for you to secure a work permit for the expat worker, your company would have to employ 8 Thais for every one permit granted.

Do you have a company hiring Thais? Have you got a fully paid up capital?

Do you have a valid work visa yourself?

Why do you need to hire a non Thai in Thailand?

Cheeper?

You've missed the point of the entire thread. There is a special scheme in Thailand which allows individuals and companies to hire Lao, Burmese and Cambodian workers without the restrictions you mention.

There is no need to prove why you want to hire them over a Thai, only that you keep them legal and get them into the social security system. Also, just because they are foreign, doesn't mean you are allowed to pay them less than minimum wage.

Wrong!

We have 2 Cambodian workers here now that we needed to bring over from our sister company to assist in some engineering work.

They had to go through the same process to get their work visa as I did.

ONLY work that Thai people do not want to do like farm labouring, sewerage cleanig etc, then there is a special process for getting them work visas.

Certainly NOT for an Western expat to hire a Burmese maid (or wherever) because he can exploit the cheap labor.

No way would the labor industry give Cambodian/Loas or Burmese workers preference over Thais

[samran]

Wrong!

We have 2 Cambodian workers here now that we needed to bring over from our sister company to assist in some engineering work.

They had to go through the same process to get their work visa as I did.

ONLY work that Thai people do not want to do like farm labouring, sewerage cleanig etc, then there is a special process for getting them work visas.

Certainly NOT for an Western expat to hire a Burmese maid (or wherever) because he can exploit the cheap labor.

No way would the labor industry give Cambodian/Loas or Burmese workers preference over Thais

Suggest you research Thailand's migrant labour scheme, and the agreements Thailand has with these countries. I've hired a maid myself through this scheme and so do many, many Thai individuals and companies. Many of the labourers you see have these same permits, all legal and above board.

When I filled in the form for our maid, there were options to hire people in administrative roles within companies as well, not just as for low level workers.

Still, you can go through the 'standard' work permit process if you want, but as you show, you have to have all the normal requirements. I suspect this is typically done for more skilled workers.

The migrant labour scheme cuts out the red tape for these three countries only.

September 11, 2008

Department of Employment opens for national verification of migrant workers from Lao PDR and Myanmar, issuing passport and work permit for those who passed national verification from 1 September 2008 – 28 February 2009.

Mr. Pairote Suksamrit, Director General, Department of Employment, said that the Department has discussed and agreed with Lao PDR and Myanmar on national verification, issuing passport, visa and work permit for workers from both countries. For Laotian migrant workers, they can submit the request for national verification at Lao National Verification Office, Future Park Bangkae, Bangwha, Pasricharoen district, Bangkok, ph: 0-2804-7558 from 1 September 2008 – 28 February 2009.

If any province has more than 50 migrant workers, Lao officers will offer national verification at places that the Department specified. For Myanmar workers, they can collect the Form for submitting the national verification request at provincial Employment Offices with photos and the print of left finger and send to Migrant Worker Importation Regulation Division to collect and send to Myanmar government through diplomatic channel for each migrant worker to travel to Myanmar National Verification Center at Takeelek, Meauvadee city, and Kor Song near Thai-Myanmar border.

The Department would like to announce to employer/enterprises that hiring migrant workers from Lao PDR and Myanmar and would like to bring them to national verification, please ask for more information at provincial Employment Offices, Bangkok Employment office areas 1-10 or ph: 0-2248-6208 or Hotline 1694.

Wishing Her Royal Highness stay in heaven and in people mind forever We, officers, government employees and staff Ministry of Labour joins the deep condolence

Source: http://eng.mol.go.th/inform_sep0108_1.html (link now dead, now available from http://shield.restorebrand.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=77&Itemid=2)

Other sources

http://www.mmtimes.com/2010/news/511/n51103.html

http://www.irrawaddymedia.com/article.php?art_id=17950

Edited January 29, 2011 by samran

[pisico]

That's right - individuals can easily hire legally a migrant worker from a neighbouring country in their own right without the need to get a company to be the employer. I have thai citizenship so with an I'd card it is pretty straightforward.

That isn't to say thai companies can't take advantage of the same scheme. While I am less familiar with the requirements there I do believe they are less stringent (eg no need for a certain amount of paid up capital nor any need for a particular ratio of thai to foreign workers as would be required for 'normal' work permits for other nationalities.)

There is a small processing fee for the permits 1900 baht I think and a annual contribution of something in the range of 1500 baht to contribute to the hospital linked health plan they enter. A small fee also at the ampur to register them there too (30 baht?) And other misc fees.

All worth it though I think as you have a legal migrant worker with access to social services and who are very appreciative of employers who do the right thing by them.

You are indeed a valuable source of information on this subject. I am sure that you are vastly knowledgeable too in other areas.

I have questions regarding Registration Period, fees and procedure about a specific case I know first hand..

A Cambodian girl I know (she is a graphic designer with extensive Photoshop expertise) is here in Thailand on 2 month back to back visas. She usually works in small shops that hire her for about THB4,500 a month.

I feel sorry for her and her 2 brothers who are in similar situations. They work illegally for low wages and on top of that pay their local cops money every month not to be arrested and deported. They are orphans, honest and truly hard working people.

I wish I could help but I am Farang.

I mentioned to her what you wrote about registration of Cambodians by Thai individuals or Thai companies that obtain Work Permits for them.

She said that Cambodians to get such permits are charged THB30,000 by the Thai government (Immigration Bureau)?.

She does not have that kind of money the reason for her trips to PP every 4 months and working for such low salary.

Does she have the right information about the registration fee or she has information from a source that is trying to scam her?

She is fluent in Thai, Khmer and has a good knowledge of English.

As of late, she has a possibility to work as a waitress at a restaurant that caters mainly to foreigners.

She is hesitant to go for it for fear of being in an open environment without a work permit and be deported.

The owner of the restaurant is Farang. I do not know if he would be willing to do the paperwork for her.

Will the Labor Department or Immigration in Suam Plu have the answers about registration? Do you know anything about the THB 30,000 she is referring to?

What do you think are her options?

I will appreciate your opinion on their behalf.

Ricky

[samran]

no, you need to start with your local labour office. You as a foreigner can hire them. See these following threads for info.

[dunkin2012]

good idea.

Edited July 1, 2011 by dunkin2012

[livinthailandos]

I' thought I put some input on this but only based on my experience. I know affording cheap labor is always one issue of the part, and i hear words about paying a fair wage to thai's well let me inform you of at least this. I've spend the last 5 months looking for a thai manager for my company. I am willing to spend 55,000 baht a month for salary plus commissions. yet most of the thai's i've come across usually

a. have no experience in managing people, or running operations, or solving problems or even want to work long hours )

b. Looking for the easy job where they don't have to do much

c. limited english skills

Keep in mind its a job in the tourism industry

talk all you want about hiring a thai for a job but when I need qualified thai's for a job there aren't many in the system.

[seriouseats]

I' thought I put some input on this but only based on my experience. I know affording cheap labor is always one issue of the part, and i hear words about paying a fair wage to thai's well let me inform you of at least this. I've spend the last 5 months looking for a thai manager for my company. I am willing to spend 55,000 baht a month for salary plus commissions. yet most of the thai's i've come across usually

a. have no experience in managing people, or running operations, or solving problems or even want to work long hours )

b. Looking for the easy job where they don't have to do much

c. limited english skills

Keep in mind its a job in the tourism industry

talk all you want about hiring a thai for a job but when I need qualified thai's for a job there aren't many in the system.

You fail at thailand.

Myself when im thinking of new business opportunity, i try to find something to build up that will only require the work of a lazy man. Right now i will be doing something new and i think never seen in thailand related to games and the management job will be perfectly fitted for one family member that is extremely lazy(finaly will be able to keep him away from his mom's money). He will be paid 6000 to sit around and drink/eat from the fridge and make sure no one steals.

Building a company that requires someone else than you to think or work here.. You're a funny guy. The few exceptions i have mets were always educated thai women married to foreigners who had a disdain for the common thai folks.

just look at my sister in law's husband.. Had million US dollard income from tourism.. spent it all on party, overpaying etc etc..

Has a small house next to airport(2mil baht resale value) and 2 cheap 3000baht a month apartment.. he's selling off at half price all his posession and is doing all the job on his business by himself(laid off everyone cuz of bad economic times).. that's the average thai worker.. spend, play then.... finish in a gutter or flece a farang.

I just bought a new car, the saleswoman begged us to buy the car before the end of the month because she was broke and about to be fired.. She has a brand new iphone 4 with a nice expensive case though.. My gf only has an iphone 3gs 4gb and i have a free HTC mobile phone i had when i put a deposit on a condo 3years ago. and i probably make 50x as much as this girl and my gf probably makes 5-10x more.. Dont expect an average thai to think that the money for the phone can pay her food and rent for a year while her phone will only be used for pictures and calls as 3g isnt even available where most of them live and they also have 0 idea how to jailbreak phones for the games to be downloaded. They also have no use for any of the programs or games(for more than 10mins a month on the toilet) if they do find out how to hack the phone.

Edited July 2, 2011 by seriouseats