PAD Protest: Just Who Is Benefiting From Rally?

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE

PAD protest: Just who is benefiting from rally?

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

Prime Minister Hun Sen should be grateful to the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and the Thai Patriots' Network (TPN) for rallying against the Thai government, because their arguments and demands could be very useful for Cambodia.

The two groups have been camping outside the Prime Minister's Office for a week to pressure the government into taking tougher action over border conflicts with Cambodia. They have demanded that the government scrap the memorandum of understanding (MoU) on boundary demarcation, use military force to kick Cambodian communities out of disputed areas near Preah Vihear Temple and quit the World Heritage Committee.

The MoU, signed in 2000 under the Democrat-led government of Chuan Leekpai, is a legal instrument meant to set up a joint boundary committee, to help survey and demarcate the border.

The key point of concern in the MoU is Article 1 ©, which says "maps which are the result of demarcation works of the Commission of Delimitation of the Boundary between Indochina and Siam set up under the Convention of 1904 and the Treaty of 1907 between France and Siam, and other documents relating to the application of the Convention of 1904 and the Treaty of 1907 between France and Siam".

Like Cambodia, the PAD believes that the "maps" mentioned in this Article include the 1:200,000 scale one, which is part of a series of maps made by France that show the Preah Vihear Temple and its adjacent area being in Cambodia.

In a statement on December 28, the Cambodian Foreign Ministry confirmed a PAD belief that the maps resulting from the demarcation work conducted by the commission are actually based on the 1:200,000 scale map. The International Court of Justice used this map as a basic legal document when it ruled in 1962 that Preah Vihear was situated in territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, meanwhile, has been arguing that Thailand never accepted the Dangrek map, which was part of the series, because the Siamese-French boundary commission did not come up with it. The MoU mentions many maps, he said, implying that Thailand could choose any that worked in its favour.

The PAD, however, insists that Abhisit is wrong because the map referred to in the Article, which is related to the 1904 Convention and 1907 Treaty for the area near Preah Vihear, is no other than the Dangrek map. Yellow-shirt Senator Khamnoon Sitthisamarn said Cambodia would never use any other map to indicate the boundary near Preah Vihear.

It is unlikely that Abhisit will revoke the MoU, but at least Cambodia can claim that a group of Thais believe that the map mentioned in the boundary pact was the French-made 1:200,000 scale one.

If Thailand uses force, as demanded by the PAD, to drive Cambodians out of the disputed area, then Phnom Penh would have good reason to turn to the international community, if not the UN, and claim that its big neighbour was being aggressive. The demand that the government use force has already damaged Thailand's reputation.

As for the PAD's call for Thailand to step down from the World Heritage Committee - it makes very little sense. It would be good for Cambodia if Thailand withdrew, because then it would not be able to intervene in Phnom Penh's management plan for the temple.

The Preah Vihear Temple was given the World Heritage Site status in 2008, but Thailand, as a member of the committee, blocked its final management plan because the temple's vicinity was still under dispute.

No wonder Abhisit is questioning PAD's real intentions - is it protesting for the benefit of Thailand or Cambodia?

-- The Nation 2011-02-02

[asiawatcher]

PAD appears to be protesting for PAD exposure. It really does not have any real agenda. Its arguments put forward and reasons for its ridiculous blockade, are flippant.

[mkawish]

The article is incorrect and inaccurate at best....

The PAD is correct, if and when Thailand withdraws itself from becoming a committee member....

There won't be any one nor any nation that could force Thailand into accepting whatever outcome resulting from a third party-group decision without Thailand's active participation in the decision process....

It is very much like a group of Thaivisa members get together and vote on removing George from his post.... Most probably George won't agree to it, much less to accept a decision which he has not input.... even if he chooses not to participate.... it is within George's human rights....

Similarly, it would be to Thailand's best advantage to just withdraw and denounce all those by-laws.... and null and void any and all that have to do with JBC....

Thailand has been without JBC from the very beginning..... there certainly is no need for the JBC now....

to subdivide her territorial .... in Camb and HuSan favor.... at this time and age....

Most importantly, the general public and particularly those loyal to the throne just won't stand idle for this treacherous activity and decision.... regardless of who, Apisit, SuThep, GaSit, and/or Vit, are championing this destructive course against Thailand's best interests at heart....

Summons will be properly served on all the aforementioned persons soon.... for possible treason trial....

Most urgent, imho, is to affect the release of the last two Thai out of the 7 who have just been sentenced to 8 and 6 yrs in prison.... in spite of the fact that according to the UN and International Red Cross records from 1980 showing that the well and the Camb refugee encampment enacted then was indeed in Thai territorial....

For some unknown reasons, Apisit's deputies, those being charged with treason, kept on stating that those parcels of land where UN and Red Cross certified to be, belonging to Thailand in 1980....

NOW belong to Camb refugees just because they have settled in the areas for a few decades.....

Edited February 2, 2011 by mkawish

[jayjay0]

The article is incorrect and inaccurate at best....

The PAD is correct, if and when Thailand withdraws itself from becoming a committee member....

There won't be any one nor any nation that could force Thailand into accepting whatever outcome resulting from a third party-group decision without Thailand's active participation in the decision process....

It is very much like a group of Thaivisa members get together and vote on removing George from his post.... Most probably George won't agree to it, much less to accept a decision which he has not input.... even if he chooses not to participate.... it is within George's human rights....

Similarly, it would be to Thailand's best advantage to just withdraw and denounce all those by-laws.... and null and void any and all that have to do with JBC....

Thailand has been without JBC from the very beginning..... there certainly is no need for the JBC now....

to subdivide her territorial .... in Camb and HuSan favor.... at this time and age....

Most importantly, the general public and particularly those loyal to the throne just won't stand idle for this treacherous activity and decision.... regardless of who, Apisit, SuThep, GaSit, and/or Vit, are championing this destructive course against Thailand's best interests at heart....

Summons will be properly served on all the aforementioned persons soon.... for possible treason trial....

Most urgent, imho, is to affect the release of the last two Thai out of the 7 who have just been sentenced to 8 and 6 yrs in prison.... in spite of the fact that according to the UN and International Red Cross records from 1980 showing that the well and the Camb refugee encampment enacted then was indeed in Thai territorial....

For some unknown reasons, Apisit's deputies, those being charged with treason, kept on stating that those parcels of land where UN and Red Cross certified to be, belonging to Thailand in 1980....

NOW belong to Camb refugees just because they have settled in the areas for a few decades.....

And your idea of Thailand's best interest at heart is to start a war over a insignificant spot of land. A piece of land that could be used to cement relationships with Thailand and Cambodia and be a example for the world of two countries working together to solve a problem to the mutual benefit of both.

With your attitude towards neighbors I am glad you are not my neighbor.

[SomTumTiger]

The article is incorrect and inaccurate at best....

The PAD is correct, if and when Thailand withdraws itself from becoming a committee member....

There won't be any one nor any nation that could force Thailand into accepting whatever outcome resulting from a third party-group decision without Thailand's active participation in the decision process....

It is very much like a group of Thaivisa members get together and vote on removing George from his post.... Most probably George won't agree to it, much less to accept a decision which he has not input.... even if he chooses not to participate.... it is within George's human rights....

Similarly, it would be to Thailand's best advantage to just withdraw and denounce all those by-laws.... and null and void any and all that have to do with JBC....

Thailand has been without JBC from the very beginning..... there certainly is no need for the JBC now....

to subdivide her territorial .... in Camb and HuSan favor.... at this time and age....

Most importantly, the general public and particularly those loyal to the throne just won't stand idle for this treacherous activity and decision.... regardless of who, Apisit, SuThep, GaSit, and/or Vit, are championing this destructive course against Thailand's best interests at heart....

Summons will be properly served on all the aforementioned persons soon.... for possible treason trial....

Most urgent, imho, is to affect the release of the last two Thai out of the 7 who have just been sentenced to 8 and 6 yrs in prison.... in spite of the fact that according to the UN and International Red Cross records from 1980 showing that the well and the Camb refugee encampment enacted then was indeed in Thai territorial....

For some unknown reasons, Apisit's deputies, those being charged with treason, kept on stating that those parcels of land where UN and Red Cross certified to be, belonging to Thailand in 1980....

NOW belong to Camb refugees just because they have settled in the areas for a few decades.....

And your idea of Thailand's best interest at heart is to start a war over a insignificant spot of land. A piece of land that could be used to cement relationships with Thailand and Cambodia and be a example for the world of two countries working together to solve a problem to the mutual benefit of both.

With your attitude towards neighbors I am glad you are not my neighbor.

seconded

[animatic]

The article is incorrect and inaccurate at best....

The PAD is correct, if and when Thailand withdraws itself from becoming a committee member....

There won't be any one nor any nation that could force Thailand into accepting whatever outcome resulting from a third party-group decision without Thailand's active participation in the decision process....

It is very much like a group of Thaivisa members get together and vote on removing George from his post.... Most probably George won't agree to it, much less to accept a decision which he has not input.... even if he chooses not to participate.... it is within George's human rights....

Similarly, it would be to Thailand's best advantage to just withdraw and denounce all those by-laws.... and null and void any and all that have to do with JBC....

Thailand has been without JBC from the very beginning..... there certainly is no need for the JBC now....

to subdivide her territorial .... in Camb and HuSan favor.... at this time and age....

Most importantly, the general public and particularly those loyal to the throne just won't stand idle for this treacherous activity and decision.... regardless of who, Apisit, SuThep, GaSit, and/or Vit, are championing this destructive course against Thailand's best interests at heart....

Summons will be properly served on all the aforementioned persons soon.... for possible treason trial....

Most urgent, imho, is to affect the release of the last two Thai out of the 7 who have just been sentenced to 8 and 6 yrs in prison.... in spite of the fact that according to the UN and International Red Cross records from 1980 showing that the well and the Camb refugee encampment enacted then was indeed in Thai territorial....

For some unknown reasons, Apisit's deputies, those being charged with treason, kept on stating that those parcels of land where UN and Red Cross certified to be, belonging to Thailand in 1980....

NOW belong to Camb refugees just because they have settled in the areas for a few decades.....

And your idea of Thailand's best interest at heart is to start a war over a insignificant spot of land. A piece of land that could be used to cement relationships with Thailand and Cambodia and be a example for the world of two countries working together to solve a problem to the mutual benefit of both.

With your attitude towards neighbors I am glad you are not my neighbor.

seconded

Thirded.

There is no sense in startung a war over a pitance of land.

The JBC is the logical solution and is in-accordance with International Norms.

A joint decision byt both countries then becomes valid for BOTH countries,

and MEANS there is no loss of sovereignty for EITHER.

Lossing it in a war to save facer, just means death and continued dispute with neighbors.

[scotbeve]

The article is incorrect and inaccurate at best....

The PAD is correct, if and when Thailand withdraws itself from becoming a committee member....

There won't be any one nor any nation that could force Thailand into accepting whatever outcome resulting from a third party-group decision without Thailand's active participation in the decision process....

It is very much like a group of Thaivisa members get together and vote on removing George from his post.... Most probably George won't agree to it, much less to accept a decision which he has not input.... even if he chooses not to participate.... it is within George's human rights....

Similarly, it would be to Thailand's best advantage to just withdraw and denounce all those by-laws.... and null and void any and all that have to do with JBC....

Thailand has been without JBC from the very beginning..... there certainly is no need for the JBC now....

to subdivide her territorial .... in Camb and HuSan favor.... at this time and age....

Most importantly, the general public and particularly those loyal to the throne just won't stand idle for this treacherous activity and decision.... regardless of who, Apisit, SuThep, GaSit, and/or Vit, are championing this destructive course against Thailand's best interests at heart....

Summons will be properly served on all the aforementioned persons soon.... for possible treason trial....

Most urgent, imho, is to affect the release of the last two Thai out of the 7 who have just been sentenced to 8 and 6 yrs in prison.... in spite of the fact that according to the UN and International Red Cross records from 1980 showing that the well and the Camb refugee encampment enacted then was indeed in Thai territorial....

For some unknown reasons, Apisit's deputies, those being charged with treason, kept on stating that those parcels of land where UN and Red Cross certified to be, belonging to Thailand in 1980....

NOW belong to Camb refugees just because they have settled in the areas for a few decades.....

And your idea of Thailand's best interest at heart is to start a war over a insignificant spot of land. A piece of land that could be used to cement relationships with Thailand and Cambodia and be a example for the world of two countries working together to solve a problem to the mutual benefit of both.

With your attitude towards neighbors I am glad you are not my neighbor.

It seems a no-brainer that a compromise, such as the few TV folks here have replied in favor of or proposed, hasn't even been mentioned in passing by the egoists in BOTH governments... I've had to pick my jaw up from the floor and scratch my head at the news yet again!!!

[lovelomsak]

mkawish i must reply to statement quoteThe article is incorrect and inaccurate at best....

The PAD is correct, if and when Thailand withdraws itself from becoming a committee member....

There won't be any one nor any nation that could force Thailand into accepting whatever outcome resulting from a third party-group decision without Thailand's active participation in the decision process....

It is very much like a group of Thaivisa members get together and vote on removing George from his post.... Most probably George won't agree to it, much less to accept a decision which he has not input.... even if he chooses not to participate.... it is within George's human rights.... unquote

The differnce between these analogies you make is that

The thai government would withdraw relinquishing their position for input. The committee isnot asking them to leave. They would leave voluntarily. Leaving the door open for others to take control of the out come.

In the case of george as you gave as an example he would have to state he left his post(resign) and then once gone the members could then be the decision makers on how the forum was ran really quite simple yes.. But you write it as the members would be requesting his resignation which isnot at all similar situation.

[Joel Barlow]

We know who pays the Reds, but I, at least, don't know who pays the Yellows.

That most are in it for improved social standing and prospects does seem clear...

as is also that the prime benefactor of all this is Hun Sen's intended heir.

About as inspired a choice as that of Kim Jong the Ill's, I'm fine with saying,

although quite admittedly I've never met the lads...

and nor do I have reason to suspect that Hun Sen is funnelling money to the Yellows.

That kind of fervent nationalism could have serious repercussions, though,

should a certain someone, for whom I will not even give an initial, come into a position of influence!

Shan State, Xaiyaburi, Battambang - some want these areas "back"...

nice, though, how matters like that in regards to the South are simply forgotten!

[mkawish]

jayjay0

I can safely venture to say that...

Real Estate is not your strong point....

If you were a land owner or a property owner, you would not be expressing yourself this way....

Ask any real property owner what he/she thinks of having a third party subdividing his/her property for the benefit of another without his/her consent....?

Am not advocating war.... but there are other numerous measures less intimidating....

But then what could one expect from current Apisit govt.... who to date has shown very little ingenuity all around....

Any human who would betray his own closest friend.... PaNitch....

who in turn was willing to protect Apisit's life during the Red's storming of the govt bldg.... says alot about that person's strength of character.... :jap:

Wonder what is the big scar on PaNitch head which I just notice during this afternoon interview in the English Channel? A nasty rodent bite....?

The article is incorrect and inaccurate at best....

The PAD is correct, if and when Thailand withdraws itself from becoming a committee member....

There won't be any one nor any nation that could force Thailand into accepting whatever outcome resulting from a third party-group decision without Thailand's active participation in the decision process....

It is very much like a group of Thaivisa members get together and vote on removing George from his post.... Most probably George won't agree to it, much less to accept a decision which he has not input.... even if he chooses not to participate.... it is within George's human rights....

Similarly, it would be to Thailand's best advantage to just withdraw and denounce all those by-laws.... and null and void any and all that have to do with JBC....

Thailand has been without JBC from the very beginning..... there certainly is no need for the JBC now....

to subdivide her territorial .... in Camb and HuSan favor.... at this time and age....

Most importantly, the general public and particularly those loyal to the throne just won't stand idle for this treacherous activity and decision.... regardless of who, Apisit, SuThep, GaSit, and/or Vit, are championing this destructive course against Thailand's best interests at heart....

Summons will be properly served on all the aforementioned persons soon.... for possible treason trial....

Most urgent, imho, is to affect the release of the last two Thai out of the 7 who have just been sentenced to 8 and 6 yrs in prison.... in spite of the fact that according to the UN and International Red Cross records from 1980 showing that the well and the Camb refugee encampment enacted then was indeed in Thai territorial....

For some unknown reasons, Apisit's deputies, those being charged with treason, kept on stating that those parcels of land where UN and Red Cross certified to be, belonging to Thailand in 1980....

NOW belong to Camb refugees just because they have settled in the areas for a few decades.....

And your idea of Thailand's best interest at heart is to start a war over a insignificant spot of land. A piece of land that could be used to cement relationships with Thailand and Cambodia and be a example for the world of two countries working together to solve a problem to the mutual benefit of both.

With your attitude towards neighbors I am glad you are not my neighbor.

[SomTumTiger]

No one is paying for the yellows now, which is why they only have 3,000 protesters lol

[animatic]

No one is paying for the yellows now, which is why they only have 3,000 protesters lol

I think big oil interests are quietly funding the TPN to cause trouble

and if possible cause a unilateral redrawing of Cambo-Thai borders,

that is the Thais win would benefit the oil companies in Thailand.

The fear is that the JDC might not redraw, and that they might lose

% of degrees on the sea boarder as a negotiation. But a short and quick won border war,

allows the winner to redraw any border it chooses. Who might be greedy enough for this

and not care a jot for the young lives lost in such a grand endeavors?

[scotbeve]

No one is paying for the yellows now, which is why they only have 3,000 protesters lol

I think big oil interests are quietly funding the TPN to cause trouble

and if possible cause a unilateral redrawing of Cambo-Thai borders,

that is the Thais win would benefit the oil companies in Thailand.

The fear is that the JDC might not redraw, and that they might lose

% of degrees on the sea boarder as a negotiation. But a short and quick won border war,

allows the winner to redraw any border it chooses. Who might be greedy enough for this

and not care a jot for the young lives lost in such a grand endeavors?

Apparently, there is a good amount of Hydrocarbons in a few blocks out there....

[truethailand]

No one is paying for the yellows now, which is why they only have 3,000 protesters lol

Do you know who paid for them before

[rubl]

No one is paying for the yellows now, which is why they only have 3,000 protesters lol

Do you know who paid for them before

Being mostly middle-class maybe they didn't need external financing ?

[JWJ]

No one is paying for the yellows now, which is why they only have 3,000 protesters lol

Do you know who paid for them before

Being mostly middle-class maybe they didn't need external financing ?

According to Forbes, team yellow has a $35 nest-egg.

[jdinasia]

35 dollars? wow!

[JWJ]

Ooops

$35 Billion

[Buchholz]

Ooops

$35 Billion

You got a link or a quote for this alleged, supposedly, so-called 1.085 TRILLION baht "nest egg"?

[scotbeve]

Ooops

$35 Billion

So very "high" money...

[scotbeve]

Ooops

$35 Billion

You got a link or a quote for this alleged, supposedly, so-called 1.085 TRILLION baht "nest egg"?

Hmmmmm... where exactly is Thaksins billions that was extorted from him??? And why did the government have to borrow MORE - a record-breaking amount - from the world (loads from China...)?????

[scorecard]

Ooops

$35 Billion

So very "high" money...

So someone suddenly posts "35Billion".

Can the OP or anybody share some details of this supposed 35Billion, please.

[scotbeve]

Ooops

$35 Billion

So very "high" money...

So someone suddenly posts "35Billion".

Can the OP or anybody share some details of this supposed 35Billion, please.

Have a look at Forbes (or was it Fortune 500?)website(s) for the richest ....

[Buchholz]

Ooops

$35 Billion

You got a link or a quote for this alleged, supposedly, so-called 1.085 TRILLION baht "nest egg"?

Hmmmmm... where exactly is Thaksins billions that was extorted from him??? And why did the government have to borrow MORE - a record-breaking amount - from the world (loads from China...)?????

Do you understand there is a difference between baht and dollars? and between billion and trillion?

The money that was taken back from the thieving Thaksin by the National Treasury amounted to 1/30th of the amount the earlier poster was proclaiming was a yellow shirt nest egg.

Probably best to let the foolish, erroneous poster answer for himself, rather than take that role for him.

.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Ooops

$35 Billion

So very "high" money...

So someone suddenly posts "35Billion".

Can the OP or anybody share some details of this supposed 35Billion, please.

Have a look at Forbes (or was it Fortune 500?)website(s) for the richest ....

You're determined to answer for the foolish, erroneous poster, eh?

Ok, very well then; so be it.

Which one of these people on the Forbes list is a yellow shirt backer?... only the first 3 have more than $35 billion

Rank Name Net Worth ($bil)

1 Carlos Slim Helu 53.5

2 William Gates III 53.0

3 Warren Buffett 47.0

4 Mukesh Ambani 29.0

[scotbeve]

Ooops

$35 Billion

You got a link or a quote for this alleged, supposedly, so-called 1.085 TRILLION baht "nest egg"?

Hmmmmm... where exactly is Thaksins billions that was extorted from him??? And why did the government have to borrow MORE - a record-breaking amount - from the world (loads from China...)?????

Do you understand there is a difference between baht and dollars? and between billion and trillion?

The money that was taken back from the thieving Thaksin by the National Treasury amounted to 1/30th of the amount the earlier poster was proclaiming was a yellow shirt nest egg.

Probably best to let the foolish, erroneous poster answer for himself, rather than take that role for him.

.

Duh... 30 yrs. here... I should think so - I'm mix and matching the currencies. There's someone in this country worth $35 BILLION (USD) - see forbes or fortune 500 (if you can still access it from Thailand via internet!)

[Buchholz]

You got a link or a quote for this alleged, supposedly, so-called 1.085 TRILLION baht "nest egg"?

Hmmmmm... where exactly is Thaksins billions that was extorted from him??? And why did the government have to borrow MORE - a record-breaking amount - from the world (loads from China...)?????

Do you understand there is a difference between baht and dollars? and between billion and trillion?

The money that was taken back from the thieving Thaksin by the National Treasury amounted to 1/30th of the amount the earlier poster was proclaiming was a yellow shirt nest egg.

Probably best to let the foolish, erroneous poster answer for himself, rather than take that role for him.

Duh... 30 yrs. here... I should think so - I'm mix and matching the currencies. There's someone in this country worth $35 BILLION (USD) - see forbes or fortune 500 (if you can still access it from Thailand via internet!)

You seem to struggle with the baht/dollars no matter how long you've lived here. Thaksin's confiscated loss was 34 billion baht, the post you replied to (I even wrote it in all caps to help people not miss it) was over 1 TRILLION baht that JWJ is saying is a yellow shirt nest egg.

I have no trouble accessing Forbes in Thaiand (are you sure you're in Thailand?).

No one in Thailand has $35 billion. There's only 3 in the whole world with that much....

So which one is yellow shirt supporter? Helu, Gates, or Buffett?

.

[whybother]

Duh... 30 yrs. here... I should think so - I'm mix and matching the currencies. There's someone in this country worth $35 BILLION (USD) - see forbes or fortune 500 (if you can still access it from Thailand via internet!)

Give us a hint what number he is? I'm up to 212 and found the first Thai, with $4 Billion.

edit: http://www.forbes.co...-10_lander.html So, the 40 richest Thais are supporting the yellow shirts.

Thailand's 40 Richest

Their net worth is over $36 billion.

Edited February 3, 2011 by whybother

[whybother]

Yes. Forbes has the leader of team yellow at 35 billion USD.

edit: http://www.forbes.co...-10_lander.html So, the 40 richest Thais are supporting the yellow shirts.

Thailand's 40 Richest

Their net worth is over $36 billion.

You mean the 40 leaders of team yellow then.

[scorecard]

Yes. Forbes has the leader of team yellow at 35 billion USD.

Please expand. Who do you mean?

Are you saying that the wealth of one man or family family is the the nest egg of the yellows?

For total clarity, does that mean that one wealthy man or family has actually given 35Billion cash to the Yellows?

Look forward to a clear picture.