Expat Demographics

[richard10365]

Don't forget about the Chinese, Japanese, Burmese, Indian and others living here. Many are in universities all over the city. Others have businesses.

Another point, many Americans are working as NGOs in northern Thailand.

There are about 10 schools in Chiang Mai with international programs. Not all the kids in these programs are Thai and not all are white either.

[MAJIC]

" Some expatriates live "under cover." Many of these are mid to long-term stayers on dodgy grounds, such as enrollment in language courses."

Most of them are from UK

And of course you have the evidence to back up your statement?

[MAJIC]

What little culture exists in America is not centered around a bar...

There is Fox Hunting!

As Oscar Wilde said of Fox Hunting; "The Unspeakable,Pursuing the Uneatable"

[uptheos]

What little culture exists in America is not centered around a bar so you don't tend to see Americans out so much, except the missionaries.

I meet about 4 Brits, 2 Germans and a Swiss/Dutch/French/Belgian/Swede for every American i run into. Still it wouldn't surprise me if there were more Americans here than other foreign nationalities. I would guess there are more of all nationalities than those numbers provided in the OP.

During my 7 years in Canada, I visited quite a few US towns. I saw nothing but bars and eateries and numerous 'big' bars (barns) filled with myriad buxom pole and lap dancers. They weren't interested in me though cos I never had a plaid shirt and trucker baseball cap on. I must have looked English and therefore they knew no money was available.

Didn't know there were that many US towns in Canada. You learn something new every day on this forum.

Yeah, OK smart arse. You're right I should have said I drove around the USA loads of times and ended up in towns where bars were the only form of entertainment.

[lis41]

Perhaps one reason so many Americans have registered with the consulate is because my government has done a fabulous job of using fear as a means of social control.

When I moved here, my family was terribly upset and afraid for my safety (check the cia.gov website sometime and see how many warnings there are - the government doesn't want us going anywhere. We're told we're targets). To put their minds at ease, I did register my presence here with the embassy. 5 months later, the tsunami hit. I was out of the country on holiday and when I returned, my phone was broken for 2 weeks. Apparently the embassy had been trying to contact me, as they wanted to ensure they could account for each of those registered. When they couldn't get a hold of me, the state department contacted my mother to see if she had heard from me. And I have to admit, I was slightly comforted by Big Brother's checking on me, as was my family.

[richard10365]

Perhaps one reason so many Americans have registered with the consulate is because my government has done a fabulous job of using fear as a means of social control.

When I moved here, my family was terribly upset and afraid for my safety (check the cia.gov website sometime and see how many warnings there are - the government doesn't want us going anywhere. We're told we're targets). To put their minds at ease, I did register my presence here with the embassy. 5 months later, the tsunami hit. I was out of the country on holiday and when I returned, my phone was broken for 2 weeks. Apparently the embassy had been trying to contact me, as they wanted to ensure they could account for each of those registered. When they couldn't get a hold of me, the state department contacted my mother to see if she had heard from me. And I have to admit, I was slightly comforted by Big Brother's checking on me, as was my family.

In the case of George Bush, I would have to agree with your comments on fear. But from what I see with the consulate here is most of them are quite normal and do their best to help Americans living in Chiang Mai. They deal with many people everyday and each person has a different problem. Solving all these problems on a daily basis and still trying to present a nice and friendly face has got to be difficult at times. Sometimes American can be quite demanding when trying to get service. I think the people at the consulate do a good job.

Edited February 9, 2011 by richard10365

[crusader79]

What little culture exists in America is not centered around a bar so you don't tend to see Americans out so much, except the missionaries.

I meet about 4 Brits, 2 Germans and a Swiss/Dutch/French/Belgian/Swede for every American i run into. Still it wouldn't surprise me if there were more Americans here than other foreign nationalities. I would guess there are more of all nationalities than those numbers provided in the OP.

During my 7 years in Canada, I visited quite a few US towns. I saw nothing but bars and eateries and numerous 'big' bars (barns) filled with myriad buxom pole and lap dancers. They weren't interested in me though cos I never had a plaid shirt and trucker baseball cap on. I must have looked English and therefore they knew no money was available.

Didn't know there were that many US towns in Canada. You learn something new every day on this forum.

Yeah, OK smart arse. You're right I should have said I drove around the USA loads of times and ended up in towns where bars were the only form of entertainment.

In any country, the kultcha with a capital K is found largely in the big cities, not the towns and suburbs.

[Ricardo]

We don't kneed yer langwage corse corse we speeks proper.

As my Grandpa once told my Mum & her sister, "you girls, you don't half talk bad !".

I would say that the expats from the UK are a much higher percentage, but am just guessing.

Perhaps we're more-literate & thrifty, and visit 2nd-hand-bookshops more-often, as a result of our heritage of free public-libraries ?

As i understand it, immigration only handles 20 one year visa extensions per day. At five days a week, that's about a capacity of 5000 one year visas for foreigners in chiang mai. The figures given add up to way more than that.

Maybe lots have other kinds of visas.

I believe it's 20 in the morning, and the same again in the afternoon, which would double their capacity ? :jap:

[iSabai]

Perhaps one reason so many Americans have registered with the consulate is because my government has done a fabulous job of using fear as a means of social control.

When I moved here, my family was terribly upset and afraid for my safety (check the cia.gov website sometime and see how many warnings there are - the government doesn't want us going anywhere. We're told we're targets). To put their minds at ease, I did register my presence here with the embassy. 5 months later, the tsunami hit. I was out of the country on holiday and when I returned, my phone was broken for 2 weeks. Apparently the embassy had been trying to contact me, as they wanted to ensure they could account for each of those registered. When they couldn't get a hold of me, the state department contacted my mother to see if she had heard from me. And I have to admit, I was slightly comforted by Big Brother's checking on me, as was my family.

Or maybe you're just paranoid.

There are other ways of staying in contact with your family without the embassy, consulate, or CIA being involved. Regular phone calls and/or emails do the trick.

[lis41]

No, iSabai - I'm not paranoid. But I can't say the same for people back home. I didn't use the embassy as a means of staying in contact with people back home - nor was it the reason I registered with them. I used any means I could when I moved here to reassure my family that I was going to be fine, and one sibling asked me to do, so they could feel better. It came as quite a surprise to me and my family to hear from the State Dept.

And again, thanks for reminding me why I've been on this forum for so long and have posted so little.

[mrmillersr]

What little culture exists in America is not centered around a bar so you don't tend to see Americans out so much, except the missionaries.

I meet about 4 Brits, 2 Germans and a Swiss/Dutch/French/Belgian/Swede for every American i run into. Still it wouldn't surprise me if there were more Americans here than other foreign nationalities. I would guess there are more of all nationalities than those numbers provided in the OP.

During my 7 years in Canada, I visited quite a few US towns. I saw nothing but bars and eateries and numerous 'big' bars (barns) filled with myriad buxom pole and lap dancers. They weren't interested in me though cos I never had a plaid shirt and trucker baseball cap on. I must have looked English and therefore they knew no money was available.

Didn't know there were that many US towns in Canada. You learn something new every day on this forum.

Yeah, OK smart arse. You're right I should have said I drove around the USA loads of times and ended up in towns where bars were the only form of entertainment.

I might be a smart arse but you sure are a dumb one. My post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek but obviously the thin skinned poster didn't see it that way. You need to get a life and quit making so many idiotic posts like you do.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup TV CM Friends,

Interesting to think about ... one step beyond the demographics ... for any one person, the extent to which they are in fact "here" in Chiang Mai, other than the fact their physical body is here, eats, sleeps, pays rent, etc.

While it may be only a jejeune frippery of superflous metaphysicality to even consider the idea that there are, simultaneously present, multiple Chiang Mais, we do think that the lifestyles, and modes of experience, of expats vary so widely that this, operationally, can be quite true.

There's an ark-full of Christians here involved in missionary work, NGO's, etc. Our impression is that many of those are American though we don't have the statistical knowledge to back that up.

Around CMU you have many expats associated with the University in some form or another.

Within the broad groups of Japanese and English expats we see people who remain in "cultural enclaves" of their own cultures, socializing in places with their own nationalities, continuing their own cultural traditions, often to a small extent having Thai friends, or even speaking Thai to a modest level. Perhaps if we knew more French or Italians in Chiang Mai we'd find similar patterns or "hang outs" ?

There are, of course, the rarer farangs who really "put down roots" here, of many nationalities, marrying Thai, having children, raising children here, some quite fluent in Thai. There are rare farangs of different nationalities that have some deep involvement with some aspect of Thai culture or religion, or are scholars in S.E. Asian studies.

Then there's a broad group of married people retired here who live in ways that pretty much perpetuate their lives in their native countries; they just enjoy the lower cost of living, the exoticness of Thailand, lower cost of medical care, etc. Once again you may find many of these people who speak little Thai.

Then we have the substantial number of men who come here later in life to find a younger partner (straight or gay) who is Thai. Within this group of older men are "serial monogamists" who move restlessly from one Thai partner to another, maybe heavy into the bar scene night-life, etc.

Last, we come to what we call the "elephant burial ground" hypothesis: that many older farangs come here to die, self-destructing in ways rapid to slow via drink, drugs, sexaholism, "fatal attractions," reckless behavior: their denial of what they are really about, and their inner desperation, masked in a facade of grandiose prentensions, over lifeling inadequacy, depression, mid-life hopelessness, etc. Their dying meat, shedding money profusely, often almost inviting exploitation, is fresh fodder for the Thais who prey on them ?

And there are, in our experience, numerous people who we might characterize (tenderly) as "beautiful losers," or "misfits," who kind of drift here, and who are often eccentric, or, let's just say "more individualistic." They may be alienated from their nations/culture of origin, or repulsed by the political realities at home, or they may be restless chronic adventurers come to ground here for a while before resuming "flight."

So, with humble uncertainty, we dare to ask you if it's possible that there are "multiple Chiang Mai's" inhabited by farangs whose lifestyles are so different, whose degree of adaptation to the Thai aspects of their environment varies so widely, whose goals and experiences and characteristic behaviors vary so widely: that knowing the demographics ... while of interest ... may tell us less rather than more ?

We can truthfully say, of ourselves, that the Chiang Mai we live in today is not the same as the Chiang Mai we lived in fourteen years ago in our first four-year installment of living in-country, partly because we are not the same (and the radical change in us involves much more than just the cosmic singularity that resulted in our transformation from onesome to twosome via syzygy with the soul-mind of a dying Orangutan escaped from the hell of a Bangkok private zoo, in the depths of an under-construction Bangkok subway).

best, ~o:37;

Edited February 9, 2011 by orang37

[murrinman]

what no aussies

[IanForbes]

I would say that the expats from the UK are a much higher percentage, but am just guessing.

I would agree with Ulysses. In Chiang Mai I run into FAR more Brits and Aussies than Americans. The list might be skewed a bit because Americans tend to follow the rules more often and register with the embassy.

In Pattaya it's all Russians now, or people from the middle east such as Turkey. In a hotel I was at recently in Pattaya it was 100 percent men from Turkey in all the rooms. But, a LOT of Swedes come to Pattaya with their families to play golf. On the Jomptien beaches I only heard Russians speaking, and the same was true for the beaches up to 40 km south of Pattaya.

The islands in the south near Phuket tends to attract the younger, backpacker tourists. Hua Hin tends to attract the business people from Bangkok.

Those that are just hiding in Thailand won't show up on any survey.

[IanForbes]

what no aussies

Aussies are just considered displaced Brits. :lol:

[garyh]

what no aussies

Aussies are just considered displaced Brits. :lol:

That would explain why Canadians never made the list also.

[iSabai]

No, iSabai - I'm not paranoid. But I can't say the same for people back home. I didn't use the embassy as a means of staying in contact with people back home - nor was it the reason I registered with them. I used any means I could when I moved here to reassure my family that I was going to be fine, and one sibling asked me to do, so they could feel better. It came as quite a surprise to me and my family to hear from the State Dept.

And again, thanks for reminding me why I've been on this forum for so long and have posted so little.

Fair enough lis41, I stand corrected and no offense intended.

I guess it was the "...my government has done a fabulous job of using fear as a means of social control..." remark, and the "I was slightly comforted by Big Brother's checking on me..." comment that threw me off.

[Rasseru]

... snip ... I don't know why anyone from America would want to leave so much culture behind?

. . . . .

To purge ourselves of our British heritage of being violent genocidal colonialists and experience our inner Neanderthal in raw form, properly engaged in the worship of the Great Mother ?

best, ~o:37;

. . . . . .

Excellent! A man's reach should always exceed his grasp.

[Rasseru]

Sawasdee Khrup TV CM Friends,

Interesting to think about ... one step beyond the demographics ... for any one person, the extent to which they are in fact "here" in Chiang Mai, other than the fact their physical body is here, eats, sleeps, pays rent, etc.

While it may be only a jejeune frippery of superflous metaphysicality to even consider the idea that there are, simultaneously present, multiple Chiang Mais, we do think that the lifestyles, and modes of experience, of expats vary so widely that this, operationally, can be quite true.

. . . . .

So, with humble uncertainty, we dare to ask you if it's possible that there are "multiple Chiang Mai's" inhabited by farangs whose lifestyles are so different, whose degree of adaptation to the Thai aspects of their environment varies so widely, whose goals and experiences and characteristic behaviors vary so widely: that knowing the demographics ... while of interest ... may tell us less rather than more ?

We can truthfully say, of ourselves, that the Chiang Mai we live in today is not the same as the Chiang Mai we lived in fourteen years ago in our first four-year installment of living in-country, partly because we are not the same (and the radical change in us involves much more than just the cosmic singularity that resulted in our transformation from onesome to twosome via syzygy with the soul-mind of a dying Orangutan escaped from the hell of a Bangkok private zoo, in the depths of an under-construction Bangkok subway).

best, ~o:37;

Now that, Khun orang37, which I have edited only so as to keep it as a quotation a tad bit smaller in my post here, when all I wanted really to do was identify it for the purpose of the rest of this sentence, was one mighty fine post !!! Chapeau!

[CMX]

While it may be only a jejeune frippery of superfluous metaphysicality to even consider the idea that there are, simultaneously present, multiple Chiang Mais, we do think that the lifestyles, and modes of experience, of expats vary so widely that this, operationally, can be quite true.

\

best, ~o:37;

*********************************************************************************************************************************

Who says ThVi is not worth visiting? Second Rasseru's motion.

Edited February 9, 2011 by CMX

[mistakurtz]

Sawasdee Khrup TV CM Friends,

Interesting to think about ... one step beyond the demographics ... for any one person, the extent to which they are in fact "here" in Chiang Mai, other than the fact their physical body is here, eats, sleeps, pays rent, etc.

While it may be only a jejeune frippery of superflous metaphysicality to even consider the idea that there are, simultaneously present, multiple Chiang Mais, we do think that the lifestyles, and modes of experience, of expats vary so widely that this, operationally, can be quite true.

. . . . .

So, with humble uncertainty, we dare to ask you if it's possible that there are "multiple Chiang Mai's" inhabited by farangs whose lifestyles are so different, whose degree of adaptation to the Thai aspects of their environment varies so widely, whose goals and experiences and characteristic behaviors vary so widely: that knowing the demographics ... while of interest ... may tell us less rather than more ?

We can truthfully say, of ourselves, that the Chiang Mai we live in today is not the same as the Chiang Mai we lived in fourteen years ago in our first four-year installment of living in-country, partly because we are not the same (and the radical change in us involves much more than just the cosmic singularity that resulted in our transformation from onesome to twosome via syzygy with the soul-mind of a dying Orangutan escaped from the hell of a Bangkok private zoo, in the depths of an under-construction Bangkok subway).

best, ~o:37;

Now that, Khun orang37, which I have edited only so as to keep it as a quotation a tad bit smaller in my post here, when all I wanted really to do was identify it for the purpose of the rest of this sentence, was one mighty fine post !!! Chapeau!

The man is a fine writer. He can think and feel and write and walk and chew gum at the same time. Always a treat.

[techno]

I have gathered the following estimates from various consular and business sources as to the long-term totals by nationality in the Chiang Mai "area.":

Americans: 7000-7500

British 2000-2500

Japanese 4000-4500

Koreans 2000-2500

Swedes 400- 450

More exact information about the sources ? Guess there are some zero's too much ??

I don't believe anything of this story, immigration office is the only source who can know this.

That means there are about 5000 American missionairies in CNX

[IanForbes]

That means there are about 5000 American missionairies in CNX

I think I've met about 4995 of them. At least it seems so some days.

[CheGuava]

That means there are about 5000 American missionairies in CNX

I think I've met about 4995 of them. At least it seems so some days.

Well, wait: every missionary brings one wife and 7 kids. So for '5000 mission-related-individuals' there would be only 5000 / 8 = 625 actual missionaries. That's possible.

Edited February 10, 2011 by CheGuava

[IanForbes]

That means there are about 5000 American missionairies in CNX

I think I've met about 4995 of them. At least it seems so some days.

Well, wait: every missionary brings one wife and 7 kids. So for '5000 mission-related-individuals' there would be only 5000 / 8 = 625 actual missionaries. That's possible.

I prefer the missionaries that bring 7 wives and one kid. That leaves one or more of the wives to try and convert me... the old sexpat.

[ThaiPauly]

A member asked me to close this thread, but I can't see any reason to right now as long as everybody takes the thread in the spirit its meant.

Which means DON'T bash other nationalities, we all share the same beautiful city and I have met countless people that are NOT Brits that I like a lot, and I am sure everyone else has met people from nations that they have never even been to that they warm too

It takes all sorts to make the world go round

Banter is good, flaming is bad, very bad

TP

[CMX]

I don't think that we'll find accuracy as to our numbers. Immigration's figures, if they kept totals by nationality at hand, might not even show correct figures for a number of reasons - one relating to mobility or another folks rumored to be living "under the radar." I couldn't know.

Another factor regarding speculation is location, location, location. Should I be a golfer, I might suppose that a considerable number of Japanese live here - or I might gain a similar notion from wandering on the 4th level of Airport Plaza before and after films. This would confirm my certain point of view, but would not offer anything of statistical validity.

As a barfly, I might hold the view that most expats here are X's, depending mostly on the bars I liked to go. Hard to believe, but the great majority of expats settled here may not find bars the center of their social lives. The great majority might be stay-at-homes when it comes to sipping or gulping. They may have computerphobia.

Nobody yet has suggested a survey of church attendance. Perhaps that would be unprofitable in grasping the full picture as well?

I came here with some idea of coming to some small understanding of Thailand and its people, figuring that the experience would lead to novelty and surprise - perhaps insight, even given my blindered Western eyes. Turns out that the study of my fellow expats here is equally surprising. I've asked myself if it is not the case that we, as a total group (and excepting those forced here by employers), are somewhat more different than those at home are different from each other. Are we expats not atypical by definition? Odd, or even peculiar, this way and that?