Red Shirt Leader Jatuporn To Reveal 'Solid Evidence' Of Abhisit's UK Citizenship

[Ricardo]

Was he issued with a Thai passport in U.K. without ever having been in Thailand? Unlikely.

Happily my own kids (both born in the UK) had no problem, in obtaining Thai passports & birth-certificates from the Thai Embassy in London, despite one of their parents having been unlucky enough not to have been a Thai national ! So yes, very likely ! :jap:

Edited February 22, 2011 by Ricardo

[MAJIC]

Abhisit is a qualified and experienced lawyer.

Yes he was born in UK, but i cannot believe other than he has checked all of this very carefully in the past to fully understand his own case and status in regard to UK and to Thailand.

He's already said categorically that he his nationality is Thai and Thai only.

Somehow I doubt that he would have deliberately told a lie in this regard, especially knowing that he would be caught out in a very short time.

It doesn't matter if Amsterdam finds "evidence" Abhisit is one of David Icke's shape-shifting lizards. I'm pretty sure the reason Abhisit isn't bothering to refute this nonsense any further is because it's seriously not worth giving it any more media coverage than the red shirts are attempting to give it.

He looks like a Thai, he speaks Thai, he claims to be Thai. I'm pretty sure the overwhelming majority of Thais are convinced Abhisit is a Thai! And whatever Amsterdam manages to "prove", it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the ICJ accepting the case of not. As a lawyer, Amsterdam is a complete waste of cash. As a publicist, the jury is out IMO.

Sure he's a Thai. The interesting part is if he is also still a UK citizen. If he is not the ICC will throw the case out immediately as Thailand is not a signatory and it will therefore not be an admissable case. If he has not renounced his citizenship then it may be possible to bring a case to the ICC for hearing. They may still throw it out even then. However if they do decide to hear the case I would imagine the first thing they would do would be to find out whether Abhisit was still a UK citizen or not.

You would have thought that if Abhisit had renounced his UK Citizenship he would come right out and say it to stop any other chatter going on (as it has). He hasn't, one of his aides said that he did but Abhisit has only said that he is Thai and was classified as a foreign student whilst at Eton and Oxford. Well, guess what, if your main place of residence is outside of Britain (even BRITISH students living abroad as their main residence are of the same status) you qualify as a foreign student even if you are a UK citizen so that didn't prove anything.

Even if the ICC do not accept this case Amsterdam has done what he set out to do - Publicise the White Paper.

Abhisit is a highly Educated man,with more Top Class Degrees to his name than,most people could only dream of.

He speaks fluent,.better English than the vast majority of English,and is probably the best PM Thailand has had in many a year.His Sincerity is very obvious,and up to now has not been involved in any scandals or corruption. I dont believe a simple thing such as clarifying his Nationality,would be worth him lying about,and risking everything,by playing into the hands of the likes of Thaksin and Amsterdam.

No wonder the opposition are clutching at straws,and desperate to dig up some dirt on him.........before the next Election.

Edited February 22, 2011 by MAJIC

[sabaijai]

Nothing really new, he is not Thai anyway but Chinese and just of the few elite Chinese that been running Thailand and hold most of the wealth and have a trickle down effect to the native Thais.

Don't you mean he is a Thai of Chinese ancestry as most of the Hi So's, businessmen, politicians etc here are?

Actually he's Montenegran now Or Nicaraguan, or both.

[Buchholz]

Nothing really new, he is not Thai anyway but Chinese and just of the few elite Chinese that been running Thailand and hold most of the wealth and have a trickle down effect to the native Thais.

Don't you mean he is a Thai of Chinese ancestry as most of the Hi So's, businessmen, politicians etc here are?

Actually he's Montenegran now Or Nicaraguan, or both.

with a bit of Ugandan blood thrown in for good measure...

AFP - July 9, 2010

Uganda gave Thaksin passport

KAMPALA (Uganda) - A UGANDAN lawmaker conducting an inquiry into fraudulent migration documents told AFP on Friday he has evidence Uganda illegally issued a diplomatic passport to former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

In a written reply obtained by the lawmaker on Friday, Uganda's Internal Affairs Minister refused to comment on the allegation.

"We have asked about the former Thai prime minister. This person is a (wanted) person in his country," Nathan Nandala-Mafabi, the opposition lawmaker chairing the inquiry told AFP.

Continues:

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_551609.html

.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Buchholz

[animatic]

He was born on Newcastle, England and he holds a British birth certificate. If he never held a British passport how did he travel in his younger years i.e. did his wealthy parents never take holidays or trips outside of the U.K.? Was he issued with a Thai passport in U.K. without ever having been in Thailand? Unlikely.

Unlikely?? I would say very likely.

I know plenty of people (not from Thailand) who have had kids here and got a passport through their embassies in Thailand.

It would have been just as easy for Abhisit's parents (probably easier) to get a Thai passport for him than to get a British passport.

edit: what does giving law lectures have to do with him being a British citizen or having a British passport?

what does giving law lectures have to do with him being a British citizen or having a British passport?

If he did not do his Thai military service it has everything to do with his being a Thai citizen.

It would have been just as easy for Abhisit's parents (probably easier) to get a Thai passport for him than to get a British passport.

As I understand it both his parents worked for years as surgeons in the U.K. and as such would have had no problem in getting U.K. passports - maybe they did.

As I understand it, he did alternative military service by teaching at the military academy here. That certainly qualifies as doing service for the military whether in or out of uniform, and clearly has not successfully been an issue that any opposition has gotten ANY traction with against him. They tried, but failed.

Amsterdams only foot to stand on is IF there is a document that says his British citizenship is specifically un-renounced and that opens the door for 'possible' action relative to the ICJ, but in no way affects his Thai citizenship.

The likelihood of them finding this is pretty small or it would have been produced and splattered across all pages of the press for weeks since it first came up... And Jatuporn would have displayed it blown up to 5 meters across if he had it.

Edited February 23, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Where has it ever been said he never came back to Thailand as a minor with his parents? Just an unfounded, blanket assumption that once in UK he never left till he was through with Uni.

[timekeeper]

i will say this again for those who missed it the first time buried deep in this thread

'' if this is all the Reds can drag up with their huge financial resources as a reward to any whistle-blowers to taint his reputation, i would have to say that Kuhn Abhisit must have lived a rather exemplary life so far''

not even a hint of a non inhaled joint at uni.........

[TAWP]

Bangkok Pundit did a piece on this a week ago. As Abhisit was born in the UK and his parents werent diplomats then he is a British citizen, whether he likes it or not. No proof anywhere that he has ever revoked his citizenship. He has never denied it, except to say he paid overseas student fees when he studied at Oxford Uni. ( But this doesnt mean he isnt UK citizen, just that he didnt live permanently in the UK.)

No Thai journalists are going to start bringing up the subject of where their leaders were born and whether they are still citizens of the UK or USA.

You are right on both instances.

If he cannot provide hard evidence that he renounced his British citizenship, he is a UK national. Unless his parents being both Thai registered him at birth with the Thai embassy in the UK.

Then again, how difficult would it be for him to pull some strings and have a "miraculous official document" surface showing that he renounced UK citizenship or that he was registered at the Thai embassy at birth?

As far as the members of the press; their inaction on the subject shows the limitations imposed by the powers that be.

I would not enjoy to practice journalism in such environment.

My two Bahts in for now.

It doesn't matter if his parents registered his birth at the Thai Embassy (which they did), they issue is that in the UK they forced citizenship upon anyone born inside the empires borders. It was a way to force people into the realm of the crown and payment of taxes. When the nation changed from an expansionist empire into a socialist well-fare state in the late 70ies, early 80ies they changed the rules to disallow people per default unless they could prove a reason for their citizenship claim to be approved.

[TAWP]

There's nothing "interesting" about it. Nobody (who isn't a red shirt) really gives a toss! UK Citizen or not, it is not a game changer, as much as Amsterdam and the red shirts like to make a lot of noise that it is.

Unless the scenario occurred that the PM never renounced his British citizenship and Thai law stated that a PM must be a Thai citizen only. There's a big can of worms!

It doesn't say 'only' nor 'never before any other in junction with' etc etc.

[animatic]

Bangkok Pundit did a piece on this a week ago. As Abhisit was born in the UK and his parents werent diplomats then he is a British citizen, whether he likes it or not. No proof anywhere that he has ever revoked his citizenship. He has never denied it, except to say he paid overseas student fees when he studied at Oxford Uni. ( But this doesnt mean he isnt UK citizen, just that he didnt live permanently in the UK.)

No Thai journalists are going to start bringing up the subject of where their leaders were born and whether they are still citizens of the UK or USA.

You are right on both instances.

If he cannot provide hard evidence that he renounced his British citizenship, he is a UK national. Unless his parents being both Thai registered him at birth with the Thai embassy in the UK.

Then again, how difficult would it be for him to pull some strings and have a "miraculous official document" surface showing that he renounced UK citizenship or that he was registered at the Thai embassy at birth?

As far as the members of the press; their inaction on the subject shows the limitations imposed by the powers that be.

I would not enjoy to practice journalism in such environment.

My two Bahts in for now.

It doesn't matter if his parents registered his birth at the Thai Embassy (which they did), they issue is that in the UK they forced citizenship upon anyone born inside the empires borders. It was a way to force people into the realm of the crown and payment of taxes. When the nation changed from an expansionist empire into a socialist well-fare state in the late 70ies, early 80ies they changed the rules to disallow people per default unless they could prove a reason for their citizenship claim to be approved.

So let Amsterdam find Abhisit's Inland Revenue tax returns!

HA!

[TAWP]

what does giving law lectures have to do with him being a British citizen or having a British passport?

If he did not do his Thai military service it has everything to do with his being a Thai citizen.

Not all boys have to do military service and there are several ways to enable oneself to 'opt out' of the draw pool. Whichever way that was used to exclude oneself only means one was successfully excluded for a reason that was accepted.

[Arkady]

As a citizen of Montenegro can Thaksin be indicted by the ICC for the drug war killings?

Probably not because he was not a Montegrin at the time, nor did Montenegro exist as a sovereign state until 2006. The ICC can only accept cases where the country in question was a full state party at the time of the alleged offences. However, it would be a great idea for some one to put out a story about suing Thaksin in the ICC because he is a Montenegrin (or Ugandan or Fijian). That would high light the ludicrousness of what Amsterdam and Jatuporn have been doing purely for political gain.

[Robby nz]

If in fact Amsterdam and Co ever got a case to the ICC which seems very unlikely as I believe the President (I think that was his tital) has already said no that.

Presuming the ICC gives those accused a chance to defend themselves if that is the case then Amsterdam, Thaksin and Co would receive a real canning.

Any case Amsterdam could put forward would be extremely onesided.

Then all the carefully recorded video evidence against the reds, right from the breaking in to the ASEAN meeting, the attack on the MP's car, (I suspect if he had been in it that day he would have been killed) through the burning of buses, the attempt to set fire to a fuel tanker in front of a crowded appartment building through all the grenade and other attacks on the army and public and all the other extreme provocation he resisted would come out.

As I wrote somewhere else, 'How would the ICC view the young child being put up on top of the barracade as a target for the army?'

A target which fortunatly they he the good sense not to accept, showing far more brainpower then the person (presumably father) who put the child up there.

What was it the bible said, 'Greater love has no man than to lay down his childs life for Thaksin' well Thaksins bible anyway.

[ManOnTheRoad]

Mr PM admits he is a British now !!! during parliament session

Edited February 24, 2011 by ManOnTheRoad

[frodo]

Mr PM admits he is a British now !!! during parliament session

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday confirmed his Thai citizenship even though he was born in England, rebutting an opposition lawmaker's allegation for having dual nationality.

"I am a Thai with clear intent not to hold British citizenship," he said.

Abhisit said he had to apply for entry visa to England just like other Thais and that he did not avail himself of any services such as education reserved for British citizens.

The Election Commission had already ruled out his dual nationality, he added.

Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan, speaking from the House floor during the performance debate, alleged the prime minister's dual nationality.

PM Denies British Citizenship

[siampolee]

What might be interesting is the origin of Jutaporn, it certainly is not planet Earth going by the inane twaddle that emanates from his mouth and what may pass for a brain cell..

[Emptyset]

Mr PM admits he is a British now !!! during parliament session

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday confirmed his Thai citizenship even though he was born in England, rebutting an opposition lawmaker's allegation for having dual nationality.

"I am a Thai with clear intent not to hold British citizenship," he said.

Abhisit said he had to apply for entry visa to England just like other Thais and that he did not avail himself of any services such as education reserved for British citizens.

The Election Commission had already ruled out his dual nationality, he added.

Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan, speaking from the House floor during the performance debate, alleged the prime minister's dual nationality.

PM Denies British Citizenship

Weird. Two other sources say that he did admit he's a British citizen and one of them is a Nation journalist. Bizarre, I mean what he said should be clear enough.

http://twitter.com/TAN_Network/status/40698106995539968

Also, Tulsathit tweeted the same thing, but I can't link it because he's set his page to private. Anyway, it's all irrelevant since the court won't accept the case anyway.

[Thai at Heart]

Mr PM admits he is a British now !!! during parliament session

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday confirmed his Thai citizenship even though he was born in England, rebutting an opposition lawmaker's allegation for having dual nationality.

"I am a Thai with clear intent not to hold British citizenship," he said.

Abhisit said he had to apply for entry visa to England just like other Thais and that he did not avail himself of any services such as education reserved for British citizens.

The Election Commission had already ruled out his dual nationality, he added.

Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan, speaking from the House floor during the performance debate, alleged the prime minister's dual nationality.

PM Denies British Citizenship

Weird. Two other sources say that he did admit he's a British citizen and one of them is a Nation journalist. Bizarre, I mean what he said should be clear enough.

http://twitter.com/TAN_Network/status/40698106995539968

Also, Tulsathit tweeted the same thing, but I can't link it because he's set his page to private. Anyway, it's all irrelevant since the court won't accept the case anyway.

Irrespective of the court case, but if it is true, it is quite a political score none the less. I can see election posters of Abhisit adorning the country draped in red, white and blue, but it won't be the Thai flag.

I he did say this it will be like manna from heaven for the reds and the yellows.

[TAWP]

Mr PM admits he is a British now !!! during parliament session

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday confirmed his Thai citizenship even though he was born in England, rebutting an opposition lawmaker's allegation for having dual nationality.

"I am a Thai with clear intent not to hold British citizenship," he said.

Abhisit said he had to apply for entry visa to England just like other Thais and that he did not avail himself of any services such as education reserved for British citizens.

The Election Commission had already ruled out his dual nationality, he added.

Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan, speaking from the House floor during the performance debate, alleged the prime minister's dual nationality.

PM Denies British Citizenship

Weird. Two other sources say that he did admit he's a British citizen and one of them is a Nation journalist. Bizarre, I mean what he said should be clear enough.

http://twitter.com/TAN_Network/status/40698106995539968

Also, Tulsathit tweeted the same thing, but I can't link it because he's set his page to private. Anyway, it's all irrelevant since the court won't accept the case anyway.

His tweets are not private: http://twitter.com/#!/tulsathit

[phiphidon]

Abhisit is a highly Educated man,with more Top Class Degrees to his name than,most people could only dream of.

He speaks fluent,.better English than the vast majority of English,and is probably the best PM Thailand has had in many a year.His Sincerity is very obvious,and up to now has not been involved in any scandals or corruption. I dont believe a simple thing such as clarifying his Nationality,would be worth him lying about,and risking everything,by playing into the hands of the likes of Thaksin and Amsterdam.

No wonder the opposition are clutching at straws,and desperate to dig up some dirt on him.........before the next Election.

So, what are your thoughts now on Mr Abhisit - if this little thing is worth lying about surely bigger things are definitely worth lying about. Has he spent too long in the company of Mr Suthep?

[jdinasia]

Abhisit is a highly Educated man,with more Top Class Degrees to his name than,most people could only dream of.

He speaks fluent,.better English than the vast majority of English,and is probably the best PM Thailand has had in many a year.His Sincerity is very obvious,and up to now has not been involved in any scandals or corruption. I dont believe a simple thing such as clarifying his Nationality,would be worth him lying about,and risking everything,by playing into the hands of the likes of Thaksin and Amsterdam.

No wonder the opposition are clutching at straws,and desperate to dig up some dirt on him.........before the next Election.

So, what are your thoughts now on Mr Abhisit - if this little thing is worth lying about surely bigger things are definitely worth lying about. Has he spent too long in the company of Mr Suthep?

Who said he has lied? Your issues with Abhisit are your own. He said he may be not he IS, and that would take a legal decision. If he has been using visas to travel to the UK he has a case for "not exercising" his right to claim British citizenship. If he has a voting record he doesn't have that claim. Personally it is a non-issue and he certainly has lied less than any other PM in recent history

This is simply a smear campaign with no merit as NOBODY suggests he isn't Thai

[jdinasia]

BTW --- thanks for the tweet link ... it shows 2 more of the nurses believed lost in the CTV building in Christchurch as having survived. I have still not found an official source for this though

[phiphidon]

Abhisit is a highly Educated man,with more Top Class Degrees to his name than,most people could only dream of.

He speaks fluent,.better English than the vast majority of English,and is probably the best PM Thailand has had in many a year.His Sincerity is very obvious,and up to now has not been involved in any scandals or corruption. I dont believe a simple thing such as clarifying his Nationality,would be worth him lying about,and risking everything,by playing into the hands of the likes of Thaksin and Amsterdam.

No wonder the opposition are clutching at straws,and desperate to dig up some dirt on him.........before the next Election.

So, what are your thoughts now on Mr Abhisit - if this little thing is worth lying about surely bigger things are definitely worth lying about. Has he spent too long in the company of Mr Suthep?

Who said he has lied? Your issues with Abhisit are your own. He said he may be not he IS, and that would take a legal decision. If he has been using visas to travel to the UK he has a case for "not exercising" his right to claim British citizenship. If he has a voting record he doesn't have that claim. Personally it is a non-issue and he certainly has lied less than any other PM in recent history

This is simply a smear campaign with no merit as NOBODY suggests he isn't Thai

If you have read my previous posts you will find that I said that he is of course Thai. I further said that it would be interesting to find out if he is also a UK citizen as well. I also stated that it would be simple for Abhisit to state one way or another whether or not he held or still holds UK citizenship. This he seems to have found difficult until asked in parliament. I stand by my statement. What is so difficult about it. He is a UK citizen and still is until he proves that he has renounced that citizenship. I know what this is about, as do a number of posters, and it is not about his citizenship, it's about publicising the Amsterdam White Paper. What it has also uncovered is that Abhisit is sometimes economical with the truth - and on such a small thing as this, as some posters have pointed out. If he is willing to lie/obfuscate/refuse to answer on this subject what is his standing on really important issues?

[jdinasia]

If you have read my previous posts you will find that I said that he is of course Thai. I further said that it would be interesting to find out if he is also a UK citizen as well. I also stated that it would be simple for Abhisit to state one way or another whether or not he held or still holds UK citizenship. This he seems to have found difficult until asked in parliament. I stand by my statement. What is so difficult about it. He is a UK citizen and still is until he proves that he has renounced that citizenship. I know what this is about, as do a number of posters, and it is not about his citizenship, it's about publicising the Amsterdam White Paper. What it has also uncovered is that Abhisit is sometimes economical with the truth - and on such a small thing as this, as some posters have pointed out. If he is willing to lie/obfuscate/refuse to answer on this subject what is his standing on really important issues?

"may be" -- it is a legal technicality. What you say isn't the issue, it is what Thai law says.... What EXACTLY does Thai law say on the subject PPD?

I'll start worrying about his veracity when he starts hiding his cash with his driver and maids, and his personal control of a company with his kids.

[phiphidon]

If you have read my previous posts you will find that I said that he is of course Thai. I further said that it would be interesting to find out if he is also a UK citizen as well. I also stated that it would be simple for Abhisit to state one way or another whether or not he held or still holds UK citizenship. This he seems to have found difficult until asked in parliament. I stand by my statement. What is so difficult about it. He is a UK citizen and still is until he proves that he has renounced that citizenship. I know what this is about, as do a number of posters, and it is not about his citizenship, it's about publicising the Amsterdam White Paper. What it has also uncovered is that Abhisit is sometimes economical with the truth - and on such a small thing as this, as some posters have pointed out. If he is willing to lie/obfuscate/refuse to answer on this subject what is his standing on really important issues?

"may be" -- it is a legal technicality. What you say isn't the issue, it is what Thai law says.... What EXACTLY does Thai law say on the subject PPD?

I'll start worrying about his veracity when he starts hiding his cash with his driver and maids, and his personal control of a company with his kids.

With the greatest respect Thai law has got nothing to say on whether a person is a British Citizen or not.

[jdinasia]

With all due respect it MAY make a difference.

MANY countries do not acknowledge the dual citizenships of its citizens. For America after the age of majority, you are an American and only an in their eyes. When it comes to everything from crimes to consular services to taxes ... you are a yank if you are a yank.

NOW ---- regarding citizenship. I cannot answer if Abhisit is a Brit (again it is a legal issue beyond normal scope) but I CAN answer that if he were born in the US he would NOT be a Yank.

Loss of citizenship (INA § 349, 8 USC § 1481)

Section 349 of the INA [8 USC § 1481] specifies several conditions under which US citizenship may be lost. These include:

• becoming a naturalized citizen of another country, or declaring allegiance to another country, after reaching age 18;
• serving as an officer in a foreign country's military service, or serving in the armed forces of a country which is engaged in hostilities against the US;
• working for a foreign government (e.g., in political office or as a civil servant);
• formally renouncing one's US citizenship before duly authorized US officials; or
• committing treason against, or attempting or conspiring to overthrow the government of, the US.

The primary effect of recent developments in the US regarding dual citizenship has been to add the requirement that loss of citizenship can only result when the person in question intended to give up his citizenship. At one time, the mere performance of the above (or certain other) acts was enough to cause loss of US citizenship; however, the Supreme Court overturned this concept in the Afroyim and Terrazas cases, and Congress amended the law in 1986 to require that loss of citizenship would result only when a potentially "expatriating" (citizenship-losing) action was performed voluntarily and "with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality".

citation ---- http://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.html

so CLEARLY this is not as cut and dried as you suggest

Edited February 24, 2011 by jdinasia

[jayboy]

... he certainly has lied less than any other PM in recent history

But this is very far from certain.Abhisit has consistently lied about the murder of red shirts and other civilians by the army last year.

[timekeeper]

... he certainly has lied less than any other PM in recent history

But this is very far from certain.Abhisit has consistently lied about the murder of red shirts and other civilians by the army last year.

whilst the reds have denied the existance of men in black mercenaries paid for by their boss Thaksin and accredited the deaths of police, army, civilians, non combatants, to ''fake reds'' within their ranks

must be true, the reds never lie...........

[ManOnTheRoad]

Well we all in this forum can only discuss but the lawmaker them self will determined what action to be taken . It is very interesting now with thai politics more than the Thai Soap opera

[jayboy]

... he certainly has lied less than any other PM in recent history

But this is very far from certain.Abhisit has consistently lied about the murder of red shirts and other civilians by the army last year.

whilst the reds have denied the existance of men in black mercenaries paid for by their boss Thaksin and accredited the deaths of police, army, civilians, non combatants, to ''fake reds'' within their ranks

must be true, the reds never lie...........

We were discussing Prime Ministers, and Abhisit has proved to be an accomplished liar.

I'm sure there are dishonesties propagated by the Red leadership but that is another subject altogether.Your accusations incidentally don't make much sense but to analyse your efforts would take us further off topic.