Nong Khai Immigration: Marriage Visa No Way

[saanya]

I went with my wife this morning to Nong Khai Immigration. I went to ask 2 questions. The first, "can I extend based on marriage using my ED Visa, or do I have to exit and get an "O" Visa?" The second "do I just need 40K per month income verified in a Thai bank account or the whole 400,000THB".

I got answers to both questions, but before, during and after that, I got something else: A really <deleted> attitude from the get go. Before I even got to ask my question, she grabbed my passport, and complained I had been in Thailand too long. She tried to act like my Visa was expired until I pointed at the most recent stamp.

She maintained that only with 400K in the bank account could I get a marriage visa WITH 40K a month also. So both. Ugh. Elsewhere it's not like this. More than anything, both my wife and I could sense her deep disdain for foreigners. I had heard tale of her before, and after being there not more than an hour ago, I can verify, she really is a bitch. Suffice to say, if I did get an "O" visa and then decide to extend it based on marriage, I would probably do it at another immigration office.

That's easier said than done, we live in Nong Khai. But if we need to, we would definitely not mind hanging in Phuket for a year, or Kon Kaen. Something, anything, would be better than risking such ill treatment. Let's say even if we did do everything by the book, -anyone here think we'd stand a chance with such rude staff?

She even asked if I was "done studying yet", eyeing my passport as I answered. If I would have said "yes, I am done studying", I am almost certain she would have killed my previous stamp and sent me packing.

Anyone else chance into this lady before?

Edited February 21, 2011 by saanya

[Mario2008]

When you no longer study, you have to leave the country per immigration rules. Unless you qualify for an extension of stay base on another reason.

If you apply based on income you need to show proof of that income. Income from within Thailand is shown with tax documents, income from abroad must be confirmed by letter from your embassy. Your embassy decides what they accept as proof.

Showing a bank statement with very month 40,000 baht deposited in it is not accepted by immigration. Only when you apply based on 400,000 in the bank is your (updated) bank book together with a letter from your bank confirming your balance required.

[Lite Beer]

Good to see that Miss Personality is still as cheerful as ever.

I would move to Khon Kaen if I were you.

As Mario said for monthly income you need a letter from your Embassy for foreign income or income tax records for local income.

For money in the bank you need a letter and a bank book from the bank.

(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

[spieke]

I beg to differ.

Six extensions @ Nong Khai Immigration never caused any hard feelings.

Right paperwork an right attitude did the job.

:jap:

[hgma]

if you feel you are ill treated there is a possibility to complain.

straight at the top.

POL.COL.PICHIT ITTHIPATACHAI SUPER INTENDENT.

E-MAIL, [email protected]

7 years of extensions in NongKhai.

Up till today NEVER EVER had a problem.

I realy dont know YOUR situation but in general.

"those who forget to prepair themself.....prepair themself to be forgotten"

hgma

[saanya]

When you no longer study, you have to leave the country per immigration rules. Unless you qualify for an extension of stay base on another reason.

If you apply based on income you need to show proof of that income. Income from within Thailand is shown with tax documents, income from abroad must be confirmed by letter from your embassy. Your embassy decides what they accept as proof.

Showing a bank statement with very month 40,000 baht deposited in it is not accepted by immigration. Only when you apply based on 400,000 in the bank is your (updated) bank book together with a letter from your bank confirming your balance required.

Right, I caught on to her intentions in asking me if I was finished studying.

And I get those other rules. But aside from that, I repeat, she was a simply rude. We had our information long before going in and asking with regard to the above details.

Edited February 21, 2011 by saanya

[saanya]

if you feel you are ill treated there is a possibility to complain.

straight at the top.

POL.COL.PICHIT ITTHIPATACHAI SUPER INTENDENT.

E-MAIL, [email protected]

7 years of extensions in NongKhai.

Up till today NEVER EVER had a problem.

I realy dont know YOUR situation but in general.

"those who forget to prepair themself.....prepair themself to be forgotten"

hgma

Thanks HGMA, by the way, not being rude here, but for future reference, the word prepare is spelled p-r-e-p-a-r-e. :jap:

Lucky for me, I went there specifically with 2 questions, in the very name of preparedness. It was smart to do so, smart to ask a question about my existing visa which I plan to change, and smart to ask about that immigration officer's interpretation of the law with regard to bank account balances.

Are you on a retirement visa with 800K in the bank? Or are you on a Marriage Visa with 400K in the bank?

As far as complaining to the boss, we thought about it, but I have read some recent forum threads that quote him as stating that "foreigners are a problem" during a public meeting between Nong Khai Immigration and the public.

Without knowing if this was true or not, my wife and I decided against complaining. Our opinion is that this office has staff that are rude, and why engage them in a sensitive matter such as an extension based on marriage when there's an indication that other offices treat immigrants a bit more rationally.

Again I ask, -what happens to be your visa type? My guess is that it's a retirement visa. Those are fairly easy-going when you have the 800K baht cash in the bank.

Edited February 21, 2011 by saanya

[saanya]

I beg to differ.

Six extensions @ Nong Khai Immigration never caused any hard feelings.

Right paperwork an right attitude did the job.

:jap:

6 (year-long? 3 month long?) extensions on what kind of visa? Marriage, Retirement, Tourist?

I agree, right paperwork and right attitude do the job, but today, she was just outright rude. Not only to us but everyone there.

My guess is that the people reporting never having had a problem are all on retirement visas. Her rudeness seemed to amplify when we noted it was a Marriage extension we were in preparation for, we simply paid a visit well in advance to verify two questions about it, because it is more complicated that, say, a Retirement extension or a Tourist extension.

Alas, we were correct in the information we had to begin with, not sure why she was rude, -mostly that kind of attitude is reserved for people who simply show up with no clue on the day they wish to transact their extension.

[saanya]

Good to see that Miss Personality is still as cheerful as ever.

I would move to Khon Kaen if I were you.

As Mario said for monthly income you need a letter from your Embassy for foreign income or income tax records for local income.

For money in the bank you need a letter and a bank book from the bank.

(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

Yes indeed. I actually mentioned to my wife some of the threads you and I and a few others exchanged a while back about Nong Khai Immigration vs. Khon Kaen vs. Korat. Due to the location we reside, we are literally right down the street from Nong Khai Immigration and Freedom Bridge.

What I went to ask them as exactly about this item #6.

average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months

I felt that because the word "or" exists between the 40,000 and 400K items noted, that it would be wise to inquire if the immigration officer interprets this "or" as "or" or if she interprets it her own way.

What is the law with regard to this sentence? In plain English it means we have two options, and can select the one that suits us. If we have a big grip of cash in the bank, choose the latter. If we get money every month over 40K, choose the former.

Obviously there's some discretionary power vested in an immigration officer, and this particular officer makes it a requirement to have 400K baht in the bank. When we asked, over and over "what about the 40K a month option, she steadfastly refused to answer, only barking out, 400K.

It took some explaining of this "discretionary" aspect of immigration officer behavior in Thaivisa with various people over the past years with Mario, Lopburi, and others, and even to my wife.

But basically that's it. There's the written law. And then there's how an immigration office enforces the law.

The law is you can can get extensions to the ED visa for a year or more, but only in Phuket is this ever done. The rest of the country, it's flat out 90 days and no more.

The law is that you can do wither 40K a month income from outside sitting in a Thai bank or 400K sitting in a Thai bank, 2 months, etc., etc.

But what I see about your wisdom and others, is that really, to persist in various parts of the country, one's visa situation is shaped by where they choose to live, and what visa they pursue.

We'll have to keep reviewing what's next, but I wouldn't risk trying a marriage extension in N.K.I. unless I saw someone on here who already has done so and succeeded.

I predict 100% of the replies saying they never had a problem are retirees with some cash cooling itself in a bank local safe.

Edited February 21, 2011 by saanya

[saanya]

When you no longer study, you have to leave the country per immigration rules. Unless you qualify for an extension of stay base on another reason.

If you apply based on income you need to show proof of that income. Income from within Thailand is shown with tax documents, income from abroad must be confirmed by letter from your embassy. Your embassy decides what they accept as proof.

Showing a bank statement with very month 40,000 baht deposited in it is not accepted by immigration. Only when you apply based on 400,000 in the bank is your (updated) bank book together with a letter from your bank confirming your balance required.

Right, I caught on to her intentions in asking me if I was finished studying. My answer was that I was there to ask a question because I planned to finish studying and do a marriage visa.

And I get those other rules, I have had them printed on my desk for weeks, and have researched EVERYTHING. I happen to have worked in the US Immigration sector previously, so I can count on the laws and facts pretty well.

What I can't count on is the interpretation of them by vested officers, nor can I count on that officer's politics.

A Certifying Officer has a degree of power within the law.

In Phuket, they agree with written law about extending ED Visas for a year at a time, elsewhere in Thailand they do not agree with the law and will curtail you to much shorter times.

In marriage, it's far more complicated here and in the U.S. Thaivisa has hundreds of threads covering where one office doesn't mess with your bank statements if you have an Income Affidavit from the US Embassy. Still others show that no matter what, the officers are going to check your paperwork thoroughly, and insist on 400K baht in the bank, and not even consider allowing you the alternate option of 40K a month from outside the country into a Thai bank.

But aside from that, I repeat, she was a simply rude. We had our information long before going in and asking with regard to the above details.

Edited February 21, 2011 by saanya

[Maestro]

...

[/i]I felt that because the word "or" exists between the 40,000 and 400K items noted, that it would be wise to inquire if the immigration officer interprets this "or" as "or" or if she interprets it her own way.

What is the law with regard to this sentence? In plain English it means we have two options, and can select the one that suits us. If we have a big grip of cash in the bank, choose the latter. If we get money every month over 40K, choose the former.

1. It is not in the law, ie the Immigration Act, but in the Thai Royal Police Order No. 777/2551, paragraph 2.18:
   Original Thai text: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_th.pdf
   English translation: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.immigration.go.th%2Fnov2004%2Fdoc%2Ftemporarystay%2Fpolicy777-2551_en.pdf
   Immigration officers definitely have no power to change the "or" to "and"
   
2. For the one-year extension of stay, getting 40K Baht paid into your Thai bank account does not satisfy the requirement of income. For this requirement, if it is foreign income you need the letter from your embassy.
   

[Maestro]

Saanya, it is possible that you confused the immigration officer when you asked about the acceptability of 40k being paid monthly into your account. You see, even with these monthly deposits you must have at least 400k in your account for at least two months prior to your application to satisfy the requirement based on money in the bank. For this requirement, it is actually not necessary to be able to show monthly deposits; only the 400k for at least two months matter. In this sense, the officer gave you correct information.

Deposits are not proof of income. They could also be simply a transfer of savings from your foreign account to your Thai account. This is why you need the embassy letter if you go the income route. What the embassy accepts as income varies from one country's embassy to another. If you indicate your nationality some members may post about the requirements of your embassy based on their experiences.

[Mario2008]

You have the option of asking for a written decision on your application. For that you have to come back after 1 week. You won't make friends with such request, but I doubt they will make a decision that is not according to the police order.

An other option is to cal the immigration hot line (1178) and ask for clarification. If need be they will contact an immigration officer and direct him what to do.

[spieke]

I beg to differ.

Six extensions @ Nong Khai Immigration never caused any hard feelings.

Right paperwork an right attitude did the job.

:jap:

6 (year-long? 3 month long?) extensions on what kind of visa? Marriage, Retirement, Tourist?

...

6 one year extensions Marriage (1) and Retirement (5) :jap:

[FarangBuddha]

Only when you apply based on 400,000 in the bank is your (updated) bank book together with a letter from your bank confirming your balance required.

As a point of curiosity, why does immigration require a letter from one's bank "confirming" the account balance when said amount on deposit is clearly stated in the account's bank book? I have always wondered about this...it's required for retirement "extensions" as well.

[Mario2008]

Might be because all you need to "update" your bank book is a matrix printer.

[Colabamumbai]

if you feel you are ill treated there is a possibility to complain.

straight at the top.

POL.COL.PICHIT ITTHIPATACHAI SUPER INTENDENT.

E-MAIL, [email protected]

7 years of extensions in NongKhai.

Up till today NEVER EVER had a problem.

I realy dont know YOUR situation but in general.

"those who forget to prepair themself.....prepair themself to be forgotten"

hgma

Should say "Poeple don't plan to fail, they fail to plan".

[hgma]

1. retirement

2. no offence at all in correcting my spelling

I might be 57 but still happy to learn to write the correct way.

I WAS at that meeting with foreigners.....no mentioning of farangs being a problem.

The only problem i can see now about the meeting is ythat it was only once.

With the superintendent?

i needed him on the phone for explaining the bankstatement issue.....perfect.

hgma

if you feel you are ill treated there is a possibility to complain.

straight at the top.

POL.COL.PICHIT ITTHIPATACHAI SUPER INTENDENT.

E-MAIL, [email protected]

7 years of extensions in NongKhai.

Up till today NEVER EVER had a problem.

I realy dont know YOUR situation but in general.

"those who forget to prepair themself.....prepair themself to be forgotten"

hgma

Thanks HGMA, by the way, not being rude here, but for future reference, the word prepare is spelled p-r-e-p-a-r-e. :jap:

Lucky for me, I went there specifically with 2 questions, in the very name of preparedness. It was smart to do so, smart to ask a question about my existing visa which I plan to change, and smart to ask about that immigration officer's interpretation of the law with regard to bank account balances.

Are you on a retirement visa with 800K in the bank? Or are you on a Marriage Visa with 400K in the bank?

As far as complaining to the boss, we thought about it, but I have read some recent forum threads that quote him as stating that "foreigners are a problem" during a public meeting between Nong Khai Immigration and the public.

Without knowing if this was true or not, my wife and I decided against complaining. Our opinion is that this office has staff that are rude, and why engage them in a sensitive matter such as an extension based on marriage when there's an indication that other offices treat immigrants a bit more rationally.

Again I ask, -what happens to be your visa type? My guess is that it's a retirement visa. Those are fairly easy-going when you have the 800K baht cash in the bank.

[hgma]

i am almot sure you are english.

but just as a "joke" its people not poeple.

In my language poeple has a "shitty" meaning.

by the way I am Dutch so my English aint Much but i keep on trying to improve thanks to our respected community.

hgma

if you feel you are ill treated there is a possibility to complain.

straight at the top.

POL.COL.PICHIT ITTHIPATACHAI SUPER INTENDENT.

E-MAIL, [email protected]

7 years of extensions in NongKhai.

Up till today NEVER EVER had a problem.

I realy dont know YOUR situation but in general.

"those who forget to prepair themself.....prepair themself to be forgotten"

hgma

Should say "Poeple don't plan to fail, they fail to plan".

[saanya]

haha, sounds good. I was wondering about that post on the other forum, It sounded a bit scary and glad to hear it's not true.

as for the extensions, it sounds much easier to just have the $ and do the retirement.

as for marriage visa, it seems like a lot of hassles.

-it might be useful to check into "O" visas, I know a few visa expediters stateside who took care of my previous thai visas, I did almost all of it by FedEX.

i am almot sure you are english.

but just as a "joke" its people not poeple.

In my language poeple has a "shitty" meaning.

by the way I am Dutch so my English aint Much but i keep on trying to improve thanks to our respected community.

hgma

if you feel you are ill treated there is a possibility to complain.

straight at the top.

POL.COL.PICHIT ITTHIPATACHAI SUPER INTENDENT.

E-MAIL, [email protected]

7 years of extensions in NongKhai.

Up till today NEVER EVER had a problem.

I realy dont know YOUR situation but in general.

"those who forget to prepair themself.....prepair themself to be forgotten"

hgma

Should say "Poeple don't plan to fail, they fail to plan".

[FarangBuddha]

Might be because all you need to "update" your bank book is a matrix printer.

Understood...another instance of the grifters and scammers making things more difficult than necessary for those of us who follow the rules

[Colabamumbai]

if you feel you are ill treated there is a possibility to complain.

straight at the top.

POL.COL.PICHIT ITTHIPATACHAI SUPER INTENDENT.

E-MAIL, [email protected]

7 years of extensions in NongKhai.

Up till today NEVER EVER had a problem.

I realy dont know YOUR situation but in general.

"those who forget to prepair themself.....prepair themself to be forgotten"

hgma

Should say "Poeple don't plan to fail, they fail to plan".

I must have had a beer when I made the post. I was always one of the last down at the spelling bees. I will check my spelling more closely in the future. And there is some American English that is spelled differently in other parts...neighbor neighbour etc. In Canada we are taught to use the BOUR as oppose to the BOR, the same with many words, maybe due to the single French province Quebec...Not sure where it really comes from, Settlers to Canada ?

[Jingthing]

forget about your ed visa, you do not need it, and it is a touchy subject with some ultra nationalist immigration officers.

Why is that?

[Tod Daniels]

To the O/P; yours is certainly NOT an isolated instance and "Ms Personality" is all too well known up there for being holier than thou with her condescending attitude towards foreigners asking routine questions. I hope you get it sorted out. It's even more pathetic that you went in ONLY seeking information, not tryin' to apply, and were treated this way. Sad really. ..

FWIW: I was on an extension of stay on an ED visa several years ago, and wanted to convert it to an extension of stay based on retirement. I was unable to do it inside the country at Suan Plu here in Bangkok. I ended up goin' to the Thai Embassy in Vientiane, getting a Single Entry 90 day Type-O visa based on retirement (with no documentation other than proof of my address here and that I would be 50 y/o before the 90 days expired).

Once I got back and there was about a month left on the 90 days, I went to Suan Plu (with the proper documentation) and applied for a yearly extension of stay based on retirement. Not a single hiccup, then or the last coupla times I've done it.

If you can't convert the ED extension of stay into one based on marriage; I'd imagine you could go to Vientiane and get a single entry 90 day Non-O visa based on being married to a Thai national and then apply for a yearly extension of stay, again based on marriage, in Nong Khai when that first 90 days winds down to about a month left.

To the posters who made comments concerning the veracity of ED visa; (which BTW, added little, if any real info to the topic of the thread );

I would hazard a guess, that if you totaled it up just by sheer numbers; FAR more foreigners are here on ED visas, than ALL the foreigners here on retirement and marriage visas combined. Do you have ANY idea how many international students from almost EVERY country in the world are here attending the various universities and private learning institutes in Thailand?

Also an ED type of visa isn't limited to just studying thai. You can study a wide variety of subjects in Thailand on it; religion, cooking, diving, muay-thai, almost ANY language which isn't your mother tongue, attending a real Thai university, etc.

People who live here on ED visas DO pay for their stay here; tuition, extensions of stay, re-entry permits when they travel, cost of attending school, textbooks, not to mention the time they put into their field of study too. They might possibly even learn to speak thai too (if that's what they're studyin'). How can that be a bad thing given at last count there's 63+ MILLION people here who're native thai speakers?

Do some people abuse the system? Possibly, but I believe that’s across the board in every category of visa offered. On only needs to look at the forums to see more than just a few foreigners are living here on ‘other types’ of visas.

As far as the comment about ED visas being a joke. I won't even dignify that post with a response. ..

To the O/P: Don’t give up because you ran into one “sour apple”. Hang in there, it's not nearly as hard as “Ms Personality” was making it out to be. Sincerely, good luck

[themuse1969]

Appreciate your knowledge in this slippery sloped arena, where factoids change daily, seemingly.

My tourist visa is now stamped "USED" having gotten my last stamp which expires 4/16. My fiance and I are intent on getting our marriage certificate and apply for marriage visa for me before that date. But, documents I needed from the US arrived slowly, and she just informed me that there are 4 holidays in April we don't have available to accomplish our goal. Is there a special extention that will buy me an additional 30 or 60 days to finish the process? I saw a reference to a TM.7 (something like that) extension yesterday but didn't research it. I guess I could return to Ventiane and get a new tourist visa? Trying to do what's possible and manage a budget in doing it all.

She is a government employee and our local Amphur office person told her she should go with me to Bangkok for all my affidavit/translation tasks, bring her papers with her, and we register our marriage there. Something about her case being more complex than for a NGO woman. Its all rather stressful to me. -Will

Saanya, it is possible that you confused the immigration officer when you asked about the acceptability of 40k being paid monthly into your account. You see, even with these monthly deposits you must have at least 400k in your account for at least two months prior to your application to satisfy the requirement based on money in the bank. For this requirement, it is actually not necessary to be able to show monthly deposits; only the 400k for at least two months matter. In this sense, the officer gave you correct information.

Deposits are not proof of income. They could also be simply a transfer of savings from your foreign account to your Thai account. This is why you need the embassy letter if you go the income route. What the embassy accepts as income varies from one country's embassy to another. If you indicate your nationality some members may post about the requirements of your embassy based on their experiences.

[lopburi3]

Any 60 day entry tourist visa can be extended 30 days by using TM.7/photo/1,900 baht a local immigration office. But only one time. I take it you must have required divorce paperwork from US as normally there is noting required outside of signing a paper at Embassy which only takes a few minutes.

There is no such thing as a marriage visa but you can obtain a non immigrant O visa and if finances qualify extend on a yearly basis. Also once married you can obtain 60 day extension of stay to visit spouse.

[bdenner]

Certainly are/were a pair ah! Miss Personality on the left and in the right corner we have Mr Happy. TTF I had to transfer my Immigration affairs to Udon Thani, what a breath of fresh air!

In days gone by the only way I could get any sort of civil response out of either of them was to have TW accompany me dressed in her Puyai Baan uniform. On one occasion when Mr happy refused to issue me with a residential address letter for my license I had to go upstairs to get intervention from the Superintendent, he ordered Mr Happy to give me the letter, the whole office was in deathly silence.