Thai Air Force Pilots Itching To Fly Latest Gripens, Seen As A New Force In The Region

[webfact]

Pilots itching to fly latest Gripens, seen as a new force in the region

By The Nation

After a long wait for the much-heralded Swedish-made Gripen jet fighters to be commissioned, Royal Thai Air Force pilots are now itching to fly the new aircraft that will replace vintage F-5 fighters.

The Gripen, with the designated code of JAS-39 C/D, has technological advantages 30 years ahead of even the US-made F-16 fighters, the newest aircraft in the RTAF, according to Wing Cmdr Natthawut Duangsoongnern.

One of six pilots who underwent the basic flight course on the Gripen, Natthawut said: "The RTAF's addition of Gripen is a significant addition to air power in the region."

With full use of its support systems, including weaponry and air defence, Gripen is regarded as a fighter of the future, said Natthawut, who with five other pilots was selected from more than 20 with F-5 and F-16 flying experience.

Wing Cmdr Jakkrit Thammawichai is commander of Wing 701 in Surat Thani where the first six Gripen will be stationed. He said another six Gripen jets and their support systems would be handed to Thailand later.

Four of the fighters are two-seaters for training, while the other eight, the C model, are one-seaters.The RTAF purchase of Gripens provides not only the fighter jets, but also an entire support system that includes technology transfer and scholarship and supplementary training in advanced technology.

With real-time data links through encryption among all jets, the Gripen is superior to other fighters that have equivalent technology, meaning that the Gripen can fight or defeat enemy fighters at a ratio of one to four, or even one to eight.

"This well explains why we don't need to employ them in large numbers," he said.

Unlike deployment of mainly US-made fighters, in which technology regarding electronics warfare has been classified, Gripen offers open training including electronic countermeasures.

"This means we can stand on our own in terms of mastering difficult and advanced technologies. This is a great leap forward for the RTAF," he said.

The six pilots will train another four after they fully complete entire courses.

-- The Nation 2011-02-23

[Buchholz]

Gripen JAS-39 C/D...

[elshaheen]

Itching, what kind of itch. This toy is way to big for these fly boys to be playing with.

[jayboy]

Gripen JAS-39 C/D...

A fine aircraft.Good to know that it can shoot down enemy fighters on a one to eight basis.

There are however a few problems with the Thai purchase - price (including the notorious "extras" and "accessories"), relevance to purpose, spending prioritisation, civilian overview of military procurement, corruption track record of both Gripen and the Thai military etc etc

What you can be sure however is that uncritical admirers of the Thai military will never have a rational discussion of any of these subjects.

[ginjag]

Gripen JAS-39 C/D...

A fine aircraft.Good to know that it can shoot down enemy fighters on a one to eight basis.

There are however a few problems with the Thai purchase - price (including the notorious "extras" and "accessories"), relevance to purpose, spending prioritisation, civilian overview of military procurement, corruption track record of both Gripen and the Thai military etc etc

What you can be sure however is that uncritical admirers of the Thai military will never have a rational discussion of any of these subjects.

Agree totally,dont criticise Thailand for spending a vast amount of monies, to defend themselvs from laos/cam/viet/mal. against laos they would only need 1 gripen fighter, it would take care of all 8 from laos. any corruption in the deal--oops dam_n.. now I will be told to go home if I dont like it here. I,m fairly familier with military aircraft, as its been my hobby all my life (aircraft) if the claim is correct and can take down 8-1. then why hasn.t usa /europe/ bought them ??? don't fly anywhere near Chiaphum guys !!!!!!!!!!

[RedNIvar]

Itching, what kind of itch. This toy is way to big for these fly boys to be playing with.

I guess they are itching to test the ejection seat.

[TAWP]

A fine aircraft.Good to know that it can shoot down enemy fighters on a one to eight basis.

There are however a few problems with the Thai purchase - price (including the notorious "extras" and "accessories"), relevance to purpose, spending prioritisation, civilian overview of military procurement, corruption track record of both Gripen and the Thai military etc etc

What you can be sure however is that uncritical admirers of the Thai military will never have a rational discussion of any of these subjects.

Actually, there is no known problems, but there is unproven accusations by the likes of you.

But if you have any evidence, and by that I mean evidence, then by all means present them.

Edited February 23, 2011 by TAWP

[TAWP]

if the claim is correct and can take down 8-1. then why hasn.t usa /europe/ bought them ??? don't fly anywhere near Chiaphum guys !!!!!!!!!!

They are talking about against aircraft's of the region by neighboring countries, not against other Gen 3.5/4 aircraft's.

[jayboy]

A fine aircraft.Good to know that it can shoot down enemy fighters on a one to eight basis.

There are however a few problems with the Thai purchase - price (including the notorious "extras" and "accessories"), relevance to purpose, spending prioritisation, civilian overview of military procurement, corruption track record of both Gripen and the Thai military etc etc

What you can be sure however is that uncritical admirers of the Thai military will never have a rational discussion of any of these subjects.

Actually, there is no known problems, but there is unproven accusations by the likes of you.

But if you have any evidence, and by that I mean evidence, then by all means present them.

What you can be sure however is that uncritical admirers of the Thai military will never have a rational discussion of any of these subjects.

[Payboy]

if the claim is correct and can take down 8-1. then why hasn.t usa /europe/ bought them ??? don't fly anywhere near Chiaphum guys !!!!!!!!!!

They are talking about against aircraft's of the region by neighboring countries, not against other Gen 3.5/4 aircraft's.

Royal Malaysian Airforce:

Sukhoi Su-30 x 18

F/A-18 Hornets x 8

Mikoyan MiG-29 x 14

Just to name a few.

[jayboy]

if the claim is correct and can take down 8-1. then why hasn.t usa /europe/ bought them ??? don't fly anywhere near Chiaphum guys !!!!!!!!!!

They are talking about against aircraft's of the region by neighboring countries, not against other Gen 3.5/4 aircraft's.

Fatuous response.The question is not the capability of neigbouring countries, but the capability those countries providing Thailand with a strategic threat (Reasonable subject for discussion - which countries might these be?)

To deal with any problems with Cambodia,Laos or Burma there is no need to have aircraft of the Gripen specification.Thailand will never take on China and in some senses is already a vassal state.Malaysia is not a threat, nor Singapore.The latter would incidentally whup Thailand's ass if push came to shove - but only a theoretical concern.Longer term I can see that an Islamicised Indonesia - the sleeping giant - might be an issue echoing Sukarno's regional expansionism but this is no more than a very long term threat.

However much apologists like TAWP might bleat that all is correct,no serious observer believes this ridiculous purchase is driven other than by armed forces immunity from budgetary restraint (the armed forces budget has exploded upwards since the criminal military coup) and of course corruption.

[ginjag]

if the claim is correct and can take down 8-1. then why hasn.t usa /europe/ bought them ??? don't fly anywhere near Chiaphum guys !!!!!!!!!!

They are talking about against aircraft's of the region by neighboring countries, not against other Gen 3.5/4 aircraft's.

Tawp, I did read in the report-The gripen is 30 years ahead of even the f16. granted this usa plane is not the latest, -but it is a good plane--but I question the 30yearsin advance, and also I question your knowledge of fighter aircraft that are in service in neighbouring countries......has malasia myanmar vietnam got tiger moths, this maybe a stupid remark-but do you get my point. could we get the info on some of the neighbouring countries LATEST purchaces. then we can speak about it properly

[asiawatcher]

Toys for the boys but air supremacy is a known factor in defense and essential. No complaints from my side. Go for it.

[Buchholz]

this ridiculous purchase is driven other than by armed forces immunity from budgetary restraint (the armed forces budget has exploded upwards since the criminal military coup)

Do you have some insider information that differs from:

This year's budget was identified as 1.6 yesterday

which is still below the average for ASEAN

previously it was 1.5

ASEAN countries military expenditure as a percent of GDP

?.? (unreported) Myanmar

4.1 Singapore

3.9 Brunei

2.4 Vietnam

2.0 Malaysia

1.5 Thailand

1.1 Cambodia

1.0 Indonesia

0.8 Philippines

0.4 Laos

ASEAN average (not counting unreported Myanmar) = 1.9

On a world scale of military expenditure as a percent of GDP, Thailand ranks # 89.

[jayboy]

this ridiculous purchase is driven other than by armed forces immunity from budgetary restraint (the armed forces budget has exploded upwards since the criminal military coup)

Do you have some insider information that differs from:

This year's budget was identified as 1.6 yesterday

which is still below the average for ASEAN

previously it was 1.5

ASEAN countries military expenditure as a percent of GDP

?.? (unreported) Myanmar

4.1 Singapore

3.9 Brunei

2.4 Vietnam

2.0 Malaysia

1.5 Thailand

1.1 Cambodia

1.0 Indonesia

0.8 Philippines

0.4 Laos

ASEAN average (not counting unreported Myanmar) = 1.9

On a world scale of military expenditure as a percent of GDP, Thailand ranks # 89.

With respect you seem to be quoting yourself.

No "insider" information is needed.Nobody seriously disputes that armed forces expenditure accelerated after the coup.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LB26Ae01.html

Edited February 23, 2011 by jayboy

[DP25]

if the claim is correct and can take down 8-1. then why hasn.t usa /europe/ bought them ???

Because the big European countries and the US develop their own fighters that they attempt to sell to other countries. The Grippen is a competitor not an option.

[DP25]

has malasia myanmar vietnam got tiger moths, this maybe a stupid remark-but do you get my point. could we get the info on some of the neighbouring countries LATEST purchaces. then we can speak about it properly

You can look at the inventory for each air force on wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_Air_Force

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_People's_Air_Force

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Royal_Malaysian_Air_Force

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Singapore_Air_Force

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Air_Force

[Buchholz]

Do you have some insider information that differs from:

This year's budget was identified as 1.6 yesterday

which is still below the average for ASEAN

previously it was 1.5

ASEAN countries military expenditure as a percent of GDP

?.? (unreported) Myanmar

4.1 Singapore

3.9 Brunei

2.4 Vietnam

2.0 Malaysia

1.5 Thailand

1.1 Cambodia

1.0 Indonesia

0.8 Philippines

0.4 Laos

ASEAN average (not counting unreported Myanmar) = 1.9

On a world scale of military expenditure as a percent of GDP, Thailand ranks # 89.

With respect you seem to be quoting yourself.

No "insider" information is needed.Nobody seriously disputes that armed forces expenditure accelerated after the coup.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LB26Ae01.html

The quotes are of previous news.

As for your link:

defense spending quadrupled in the months immediately following the September 2006 coup

so after quadrupling, they still are below the average of their ASEAN neighbors seems to reflect just how abysmal their funding must have been with the previous administration.

[phiphidon]

I particularly liked the comment by ACM Itthaporn Subhawong saying that the new planes were like a new type of computer with all the modern stuff! He then went onto reassure the Thai public that the Royal Thai Air Force weren't getting any commission for buying the planes..............

[DP25]

There are however a few problems with the Thai purchase - price (including the notorious "extras" and "accessories")

The notorious "extras" and "accessories" as you call them include these

[TAWP]

if the claim is correct and can take down 8-1. then why hasn.t usa /europe/ bought them ??? don't fly anywhere near Chiaphum guys !!!!!!!!!!

They are talking about against aircraft's of the region by neighboring countries, not against other Gen 3.5/4 aircraft's.

Fatuous response.The question is not the capability of neigbouring countries, but the capability those countries providing Thailand with a strategic threat (Reasonable subject for discussion - which countries might these be?)

To deal with any problems with Cambodia,Laos or Burma there is no need to have aircraft of the Gripen specification.Thailand will never take on China and in some senses is already a vassal state.Malaysia is not a threat, nor Singapore.The latter would incidentally whup Thailand's ass if push came to shove - but only a theoretical concern.Longer term I can see that an Islamicised Indonesia - the sleeping giant - might be an issue echoing Sukarno's regional expansionism but this is no more than a very long term threat.

Yes, my reply was in regards to nations that could or is a perceived threat. I don't count Malaysia or China to this group.

But you are very much wrong if you think that the aircraft then for some reason isn't needed. First of all, AA-systems are cheaper to purchase and harder to locate and neutralize than other airplanes -- hence the need for a capable airplane. Otherwise one would lose any ability to establish air superiority.

Secondly, The F-5s and the F-16s is outdated and an upgrade is desperately needed. And Gripen's price is below half than the equivalent from the US. So they will get an agile fighter at a good price.

Even Thaksin seemed to think so...

[Thai at Heart]

There are however a few problems with the Thai purchase - price (including the notorious "extras" and "accessories")

The notorious "extras" and "accessories" as you call them include these

I presume that is some kind of advanced warning/detection aircraft.

I wonder what will become of the blimps??????

[phiphidon]

There are however a few problems with the Thai purchase - price (including the notorious "extras" and "accessories")

The notorious "extras" and "accessories" as you call them include these

I presume that is some kind of advanced warning/detection aircraft.

I wonder what will become of the blimps??????

OK, I'm interested in the rectangular lump on the top - presumably this is not like the ones that most airforces use for early warning etc as they have rotating radar on top of the fuselage (I presume) for 360 degree coverage. How do these ones work - anybody have an idea?

Edit google is my friend

The blurb says that the Erieye (great name by the way, if you go by the pronunciation Eerie Eye) can scan large airspace volumes, i.e presumably straight ahead at whatever angle the the transmit receive modules work at, but not 360 degrees. Please correct me if this is not correct.

Edit again - just noticed 2 radar apertures, 1 facing forward, 1 back, presumably with a blind spot either side.

Edited February 23, 2011 by phiphidon

[Thai at Heart]

OK, I'm interested in the rectangular lump on the top - presumably this is not like the ones that most airforces use for early warning etc as they have rotating radar on top of the fuselage (I presume) for 360 degree coverage. How do these ones work - anybody have an idea?

Erieye System

The Erieye radar system, is an Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&C) developed by Saab Microwave Systems (formerly Ericsson Microwave Systems) of Sweden. It is based on the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA). The Erieye is used on a variety of aircraft platforms, such as the Brazilian Embraer E-99 or EMB-145. It has recently been implemented on the Saab 2000 aircraft.

The Erieye Ground Interface Segment (EGIS; not to be confused with the Aegis combat system) is a major component of the software used by the Erieye system.

The radar provides 300 degree coverage and has an instrumental range of 450km and detection range of 350 km in a dense hostile electronic warfare environment—in heavy radar clutter and at low target altitudes. In addition to this, the radar is also capable of identifying friends or foes, and has a sea surveillance mode.

The Erieye system has full interoperability with NATO air defence command and control systems.

[phiphidon]

Erieye System

The Erieye radar system, is an Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&C) developed by Saab Microwave Systems (formerly Ericsson Microwave Systems) of Sweden. It is based on the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA). The Erieye is used on a variety of aircraft platforms, such as the Brazilian Embraer E-99 or EMB-145. It has recently been implemented on the Saab 2000 aircraft.

The Erieye Ground Interface Segment (EGIS; not to be confused with the Aegis combat system) is a major component of the software used by the Erieye system.

The radar provides 300 degree coverage and has an instrumental range of 450km and detection range of 350 km in a dense hostile electronic warfare environment—in heavy radar clutter and at low target altitudes. In addition to this, the radar is also capable of identifying friends or foes, and has a sea surveillance mode.

The Erieye system has full interoperability with NATO air defence command and control systems.

Aha, thanks for that, presumably they fly a lazy S to make up the extra 60 degrees of coverage?

[jayboy]

Secondly, The F-5s and the F-16s is outdated and an upgrade is desperately needed. And Gripen's price is below half than the equivalent from the US. So they will get an agile fighter at a good price.

Even Thaksin seemed to think so...

Doesn't there need to be some rational assessment of threat when purchasing big ticket defence items?.For example the NATO armies had to rethink heavy armour requirements after the collapse of the Soviet Union meant it impossible tanks would battle it out on the plains of Germany.What is the nature of the threat to Thailand?

I can entirely see that a modern airforce is necessary to deal with any future nonsense from Laos,Cambodia or Burma.Beyond that I can't really see the threat beyond the long range possibilities I mentioned earlier.

As to the Gripen are there any like for like comparisons between the price Thailand paid and the price the Swedish airforce paid? One has to exclude sales to South Africa, Czechoslovakia etc as the record of corruption on those transactions is well documented.

[h90]

A fine aircraft.Good to know that it can shoot down enemy fighters on a one to eight basis.

There are however a few problems with the Thai purchase - price (including the notorious "extras" and "accessories"), relevance to purpose, spending prioritisation, civilian overview of military procurement, corruption track record of both Gripen and the Thai military etc etc

What you can be sure however is that uncritical admirers of the Thai military will never have a rational discussion of any of these subjects.

Actually, there is no known problems, but there is unproven accusations by the likes of you.

But if you have any evidence, and by that I mean evidence, then by all means present them.

As it is no secret than in all weapon deals 10 % for the decision maker is common, it might be also happen in Thailand.

But of course Thailand is the one and only country without corruption on military purchases.

[webfact]

Royal Thai Air Force welcomes Gripen aircraft

SURAT THANI, Feb 23 -- The Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) officially held a ceremony Tuesday welcoming the arrival of six Gripen jet military aircraft fighters from Sweden to be stationed at the Wing 7 air force base in the southern province of Surat Thani.

The Swedish-made Gripen 39 C/D aircraft will replace the ageing F-5A/B jets. The F-5A/B aircraft will be completely decommissioned by the end of this year.

Four of the overall order of 12 fighters are two-seaters for training, while the other eight, the C model, are one-seaters meant for combat.

Royal Thai Air Force Commander ACM Itthaporn Subhawong flew a F-5 jet from the air force base in Ubon Ratchathani to preside over the welcoming ceremony in Surat Thani.

He told reporters that now the process has begun to examine the aircraft whether the delivery is in accordance with the contract which would take about two months before commissioning.

Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan will be invited to preside over the ceremony to commission the fighters, he said.

ACM Itthaporn said because of budget constraints, the RTAF could purchase only 12 Gripen fighter jets although Thailand’s current full capacity should be a complement of 16-18 fighters.

The second batch of six Gripen jet fighters is scheduled to arrive in 2013, he said.

The six new fighter jets will strengthen Thailand’s air defence capacity, support military operations of the army and navy as well as protect national maritime interests, said the RTAF chief.

There are now four pilots that have been trained the basic flight course in Sweden with two Swedish trainers stationing in Thailand. Another six pilots have been training in Sweden and are scheduled to complete the course and return to Thailand this June. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-02-23

[bonobo]

The comments on the Gripen as so superior are really quite ludicrous. The F-16, for example, is still a better all-around aircraft. Now the Gripen may be a better choice for Thailand, but that does not make it a better aircraft, much less 30 years ahead.

For Thailand, the significant drop in range for a Gripen when it is loaded up is probably not that big a deal. And it's comparable lack of weapons load is not that important if the plane is strictly for A2A home defense. The smaller engine likewise is not that important as the plane is not really a dogfighter, but rather a platform for its weapon load (although at lower speeds, the Gripen has done well, even against early generation F-16's).

At A2G, the Gripen probably is even more outclassed. And there are serious concerns as to wing life when loading it up with 2,000 pounders.

Its lower price and ease of maintenance make it a good choice for Thailand given that Thailand does not now need the better all-around capabilities, but to say that the Gripen is a better plane is pretty silly.

As far as potential enemies, those who discount Malaysia are being a little myopic, in my opinion. With the problems in the south of Thailand, it wouldn't be that hard to envision an escalation of tension there, and planes like this take time to get into the pipeline. Waiting for problems to arise before arming to meet a possible threat would not suffice.

[bkkjames]

The airforce looks more and more like TG everyday - a little bit of every aircraft ever built, we need to trade some chickens for a Eurofighter or three, shrimps to the USA for an demo F22 and we will be set.