Pheu Thai Welcomes Red-Shirt Leaders As Candidates

[timekeeper]

Stepenwolf --- your number count is wrong as is your assumption that Abhisit is "directly responsible", but hey, since "the majority" of Thai men have multiple wives in your observation (counting out the fact that women don't outnumber men by that margin) .. should suggest that perhaps your ideas and maths don't tend to match very often

Anything you say, sport, anything...

Ok, put it this way: my assumption is guessing and it's wrong. Ok, so now is clear he didn't order to the Army to open fire to protesters. Then i have to ask you what do you think-who did it if he didn't? Tell me what do you know or think, WHO said to open fire to the people? Make it simple as possible, please.

simple, the red were responsible

they should not have been there

no reds, no deaths, no problem.........

if the reds where firing all these grenades and M16 how many soldiers died. Dont include the soldiers in April thats open to debate, something we wont get with this regime

like i said already, if the reds were not there illegally then there would not have been any grenades or any deaths on either side

all fruit of the same tree........

[hyperdimension]

Can anyone imagine Thailand being officially run by a terrorist party?

How could anyone (other than those whose businesses stand to profit) still support and vote for Pheu Thai, especially after this decision to invite terrorists into their party?

What do the other red shirt factions think about this? Do they realize that protesting together with the main pro-Thaksin faction is helping to bring about a worse situation in the country?

Edited February 28, 2011 by hyperdimension

[Buchholz]

Natthawut said former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra phoned the seven leaders from abroad

The continually reinforced...

Thaksin = PTP = Red Shirts

[hammered]

It is a shame that the red movement can never break away from being linked to an old style political party and one at that which is packed full of the local elites that oppress the rural masses in their own areas. With the arab world showing how you can have demos without an organized poltical manipulator telling you what to do, now would have seemed an ideal time to make the change. While things remain the same there is little hope for any real change to benefit the poor in Thailand.

[jdinasia]

The violence started in April when the army (army used loosely) tried to corner the reds and assinate a few leaders. As they were incapable one regiment fired a grenade into anothere regiment and all hell lets loose. It worries me that you cannot see the otherside of any argument. Is every thing said in defence of the reds a lie and evrything that the government media broadcast irrefutable proof. <snip>

AGAIN a lie ----

The reds started using petrol bombs on April 9th. Prior to anything that happened on April 10th. They didn't just use them in one location either. The fact that Arisaman called for their use 2.5 months in advance --- places ALL the blame on the reds and their leadership.

[Ijustwannateach]

I suggest that trolling is neither welcome nor permitted on Thaivisa, but it's hard to distinguish the badly behaved when the trolls are fed.

I suggest that the anti-trolls challenge the troll to put up or shut up, and then when he/she/it behaves badly or doesn't reply, continue business as usual. Otherwise the only eventual alternative is to close the thread.

[Siam Simon]

So, at the end of this session, to tell you once again that PM's responsibility is anything that the Army is doing.He is Supreme Commander so even if he didn't make direct order for to open fire to protesters, he is responsible for casualties on both sides and it is by chain command. Period. Whether you like it or not, this is the fact and in case that whole situation would be one day qualified like a crime against civilians, he will be called to the court.

Hague Tribunal used exactly chain command as modus to charge for crime against humanity all political leaders in war in Yugoslavia. You should know that.

And if there it was the most important argument for Tribunal judges and way to arrest and charge political leaders, why do you think here any one would be exempt?

Only one thing is missing. To prove that was a crime against humanity. All the rest is just and only technical and procedural matter.

What you are saying is that you don't even know who is the 'supreme commander' of the armed forces, alrighty...here is a hint: It is not the PM.

And here's a hint for you: The Army response to last year's protests was managed by the CRES. The Commander of the CRES is the Prime Minister. The CRES day-to-day management during the troubles last year was first led by Suthep, who was then replaced by Gen Anupong on 16 April.

[Siam Simon]

I dislike amateur trolls because it's such a pain to weed them out from the professional trolls.

Whilst we're on the subject of trolling, last December you challenged Nick Nostitz's eyewitness account of an incident during last year's troubles, stating that you had your own eyewitness accounts that contradicted his. He asked you to provide the details, but, after initially ignoring his request and being prompted by myself, you said you had a busy New Year work schedule, so it would have to wait. It's March tomorrow.....

[Ricardo]

It's March tomorrow.....

In point of fact, it was March today too, when you posted this ! :jap: I know, I really must get out more ...

[whybother]

It's March tomorrow.....

In point of fact, it was March today too, when you posted this ! :jap: I know, I really must get out more ...

Where ever he was when he posted it, it was still Feb. That puts him in the UK or the US, but definitely not in Thailand.

[hanuman1]

It's March tomorrow.....

In point of fact, it was March today too, when you posted this ! :jap: I know, I really must get out more ...

Where ever he was when he posted it, it was still Feb. That puts him in the UK or the US, but definitely not in Thailand.

Thanks for that almost interesting piece of geographical information. Perhaps Simon can use your input to check whether he still has a valid visa for the country he is currently in.

[hanuman1]

Can anyone imagine Thailand being officially run by a terrorist party?

How could anyone (other than those whose businesses stand to profit) still support and vote for Pheu Thai, especially after this decision to invite terrorists into their party?

What do the other red shirt factions think about this? Do they realize that protesting together with the main pro-Thaksin faction is helping to bring about a worse situation in the country?

How could anyone (other than those whose businesses stand to profit) still support and vote for Pheu Thai, especially after this decision to invite terrorists into their party?

What an excellent question!

Something tells me, however, that you will make no effort whatsoever to find a truthful answer to it. Asking it in this forum is a case in point.

[whybother]

Thanks for that almost interesting piece of geographical information. Perhaps Simon can use your input to check whether he still has a valid visa for the country he is currently in.

Does he need a visa for the UK/US? I assumed he was from where ever he's posting from and wouldn't need a visa.

If he is in Thailand, he probably should check his clocks and calendars. Maybe he just had a big night Saturday night and slept right through Sunday without realising it.

[Siripon]

Regarding running for election, Nattawut previously failed in his constituency in the south and I'm sure he would again. Kwanchai is actually from Suphanburi not Udon, and I can't see which Udon Thani MP would be willing to step aside for him.

Korkaeow maybe the only one to run in his constituency.

[Siam Simon]

It's March tomorrow.....

In point of fact, it was March today too, when you posted this ! :jap: I know, I really must get out more ...

Where ever he was when he posted it, it was still Feb. That puts him in the UK or the US, but definitely not in Thailand.

I have never tried to disguise where and why i distribute my time. A quick look at my posting history will find you an explanation by myself .

[whybother]

I have never tried to disguise where and why i distribute my time. A quick look at my posting history will find you an explanation by myself .

Yes ... mostly in politics threads ... funny about that.

[Siam Simon]

I have never tried to disguise where and why i distribute my time. A quick look at my posting history will find you an explanation by myself .

Yes ... mostly in politics threads ... funny about that.

You speculated about where I'm currently posting from, I gave you a pointer, you twisted the discussion. What a surprise!

[Buchholz]

If we've finished now establishing that Siam Simon isn't in Siam, the other paper is reporting that, in addition the 7 Red Shirt Leaders running for office under the Pheu Thai Party banner, a relative of suspected terrorist fugitive and Red Shirt Leader Suporn Atthawong (also known as Issan Rambo and shown on the left above alongside fellow Red Shirt Leaders Jatuporn and Nutthawut), Chanasak Atthawong, is also running with the Pheu Thai Party for an MP seat.

Additional Pheu Thai Party MP candidates include Kosol Pattama, the younger brother of Thaksin lawyer and spokesman Noppadope Pattama.

Also, hansum man actor turned politician Danuporn Punakan (shown on the right below on the magazine cover) is contesting with the Pheu Thai Party as his backer:

Further still, another candidate with the Pheu Thai Party is Thaksin author and confidant, sacked Army lieutenant Sunisa Lertpakawat (shown tearfully below with one of her two Thaksin books):

.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Buchholz

[whybother]

... in addition the 7 Red Shirt Leaders running for office under the Pheu Thai Party banner, a relative of suspected terrorist fugitive and Red Shirt Leader Suporn Atthawong (also known as Issan Rambo and shown on the left above alongside fellow Red Shirt Leaders Jatuporn and Nutthawut), Chanasak Atthawong, is also running with the Pheu Thai Party for an MP seat.

Additional Pheu Thai Party MP candidates include Kosol Pattama, the younger brother of Thaksin lawyer and spokesman Noppadope Pattama.

And it continues ...

Red Shirts = PTP = Thaksin.

[jayboy]

Thanks for that almost interesting piece of geographical information. Perhaps Simon can use your input to check whether he still has a valid visa for the country he is currently in.

Does he need a visa for the UK/US? I assumed he was from where ever he's posting from and wouldn't need a visa.

If he is in Thailand, he probably should check his clocks and calendars. Maybe he just had a big night Saturday night and slept right through Sunday without realising it.

What on earth does it matter where he is? He asked a reasonable question and hasn't yet received an answer.

[rubl]

Top red shirts to run for pheu thai in poll

By The Nation

The opposition Pheu Thai Party yesterday agreed to have the seven recently bailed-out red-shirt leaders as election candidates.

"The party resolved to welcome the red-shirt leaders and we don't think that fielding them as candidates will affect our political base in Bangkok," party executive Anudit Nakhonthap said.

Deputy party spokesman Jirayu Huangsup said the executive board discussed the red-shirt leaders' stated desire to contest the next election under the Pheu Thai banner and decided to accept them.

The seven leaders, who were bailed last week after nine months in detention, are seeking to prevent themselves being jailed again by becoming members of parliament.

Jirayu said the party has yet to consider the home provinces of the red-shirt leaders to determine whether they should be fielded in a constituency or placed on the party list.

The party may wait to announce the candidacies of the red-shirt leaders during the last period or after the House is dissolved, he said.

The executive board meeting, which included party chairman Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, party MPs' chairman Chalerm Yoobamrung and party leader Yongyuth Wichaidit, also resolved to introduce the direct-election candidates tomorrow.

Red-shirt leaders, including the seven recently bailed, gathered at Pathum Wanaram Temple at 10am yesterday to make merit for those killed during the May 19 crackdown on red-shirt protesters.

They included Natthawut Saikua, Kwanchai Praipana and Weng Tojirakarn as well as Thida Thawornset, acting chairwoman of the red-shirt movement.

Natthawut said former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra phoned the seven leaders from abroad to congratulate them on their release.

Natthawut called on Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to promise that his Democrat Party would accept the results of the next election, even if the Democrats were beaten by Pheu Thai.

-- The Nation 2011-02-28

Some questions about this newsflash:

'The executive board decided'. Is this a normal practice in a political party which presumably operates in a democratic manner? Wouldn't it be necessary to ask members, or member committees for their advise?

Similar question on constituency versus party list. Can someone be put on a constituency list without the approval of the members in that constituency?

Who decides the placing in the party list, assuming the order is important?

Why I ask? Well, in my country we have a 'Party-list proportional representation system' using the 'open list system'. Works differently, you get to vote directly. See the wikipedia page for details

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party-list_proportional_representation ).

Edited March 3, 2011 by rubl

[jayjay0]

Thanks for that almost interesting piece of geographical information. Perhaps Simon can use your input to check whether he still has a valid visa for the country he is currently in.

Does he need a visa for the UK/US? I assumed he was from where ever he's posting from and wouldn't need a visa.

If he is in Thailand, he probably should check his clocks and calendars. Maybe he just had a big night Saturday night and slept right through Sunday without realising it.

What on earth does it matter where he is? He asked a reasonable question and hasn't yet received an answer.

Why don't you answer him?

Sorry I don't know what the question was. I just jumped in on the last page to see what was happening on this no brain topic.

[Siam Simon]

Thanks for that almost interesting piece of geographical information. Perhaps Simon can use your input to check whether he still has a valid visa for the country he is currently in.

Does he need a visa for the UK/US? I assumed he was from where ever he's posting from and wouldn't need a visa.

If he is in Thailand, he probably should check his clocks and calendars. Maybe he just had a big night Saturday night and slept right through Sunday without realising it.

What on earth does it matter where he is? He asked a reasonable question and hasn't yet received an answer.

The only poster who can answer won't answer. IMO he trolled Nick Nostitz, and when Nick called him to account on it he realised he couldn't blag his way through his trolling, given Nick's self-confessed anal attention-to-detail and fact. So he remains resolutely silent. Which is actually quite bizarre for such a verbose poster.

[Emptyset]

... in addition the 7 Red Shirt Leaders running for office under the Pheu Thai Party banner, a relative of suspected terrorist fugitive and Red Shirt Leader Suporn Atthawong (also known as Issan Rambo and shown on the left above alongside fellow Red Shirt Leaders Jatuporn and Nutthawut), Chanasak Atthawong, is also running with the Pheu Thai Party for an MP seat.

Additional Pheu Thai Party MP candidates include Kosol Pattama, the younger brother of Thaksin lawyer and spokesman Noppadope Pattama.

And it continues ...

Red Shirts = PTP = Thaksin.

If you want to keep repeating this, why not change it to UDD = PTP = Thaksin? Whilst still an oversimplication, it's more accurate than your current formulation. But even so, see the article "Puea Thai certain to restrict role of red shirts" in the BP, it's more complicated than you make out. Whilst some PTP MPs are strong red shirt supporters, with others it's an uneasy relationship and vice versa. Whilst the UDD and PT aren't the same organisation, Thaksin still unites them both, but a larger segment of the wider red shirt movement seem to becoming increasingly discontented with PT and the UDD leadership and many of this group were already critical of Thaksin, if not outright against. So I think the situation is dynamic. It's like when people kept saying the Dems are yellow shirts (that perception grew stronger when Kasit was appointed, of course), that got old fast...

[Buchholz]

a larger segment of the wider red shirt movement seem to becoming increasingly discontented with PT and the UDD leadership and many of this group were already critical of Thaksin, if not outright against.

That would likely incur more believability in a thread that was NOT titled,

Pheu Thai Welcomes Red-Shirt Leaders As Candidates

So I think the situation is dynamic.

and hopefully, one day, it may all change, but when all the various pronouncements that are repeatedly being made and article after article reinforce the ever-solidifying trilogy, it just sounds like wishful thinking at this point that changing it will occur any time soon.

.

[hyperdimension]

a larger segment of the wider red shirt movement seem to becoming increasingly discontented with PT and the UDD leadership

Since it is now very obvious that all this "red shirt" mayhem has been about grabbing power for a tyrant and his cronies, those who are genuinely fighting for democracy and a better life for all Thai people should now take off their red shirts and openly and loudly protest against the UDD. The loss of lives and injuries were unnecessary, as they could have waited approximately a year for the government's term to expire to conduct their power grab.

[thaihome]

.. but a larger segment of the wider red shirt movement seem to becoming increasingly discontented with PT and the UDD leadership and many of this group were already critical of Thaksin, if not outright against.

Repeating that often does not make it anywhere near true. Amazingly enough, the line seems to be almost exclusively coming from the western liberal commenter’s such as Spooner and Taylor who are desperately trying to avoid have to admit they were completely wrong about the motivations and ultimate goals of the UDD. There are few Thais in this as well, but they are almost exclusively ex-CPT that have the same motives as the westerners in trying to cover up their ghastly mistake.

The actual real leadership of the UDD, recently let out on bail, are in fact doing the opposite of what Taylor and Spooner (and you) are trying to claim is happening.

TH

[Emptyset]

.. but a larger segment of the wider red shirt movement seem to becoming increasingly discontented with PT and the UDD leadership and many of this group were already critical of Thaksin, if not outright against.

Repeating that often does not make it anywhere near true. Amazingly enough, the line seems to be almost exclusively coming from the western liberal commenter's such as Spooner and Taylor who are desperately trying to avoid have to admit they were completely wrong about the motivations and ultimate goals of the UDD. There are few Thais in this as well, but they are almost exclusively ex-CPT that have the same motives as the westerners in trying to cover up their ghastly mistake.

The actual real leadership of the UDD, recently let out on bail, are in fact doing the opposite of what Taylor and Spooner (and you) are trying to claim is happening.

TH

I mean, I've learned this from speaking to actual red shirt Thais that I know, not westerners. It's true that the actors involved often see it completely differently to the way that farangs like me making assumptions see it. Anyway, when I say a 'larger segment', I certainly don't mean the majority, but I do think it's a bigger section than some people on here would have it. Which ex-CPT Thais are you talking about? Some ex-CPT Thais that have criticised the UDD? Well, the recently arrested Surachai for one, but he's been criticising them for a long time (remember they asked him to leave the protest early on in 2010), but Surachai is still fairly pro-Thaksin - or at least he thinks the movement needs Thaksin for now - and often incoherent, that's my problem with him.

So what does the 'actual real UDD leadership' have to do with what I'm trying to claim is happening? I said that a larger segment of red shirts is becoming discontented with the UDD leadership, I didn't make any claims about what the UDD leadership is doing, so how could they be doing the opposite of what I claimed? Well, I guess my post could be misinterpreted, to be clear, I meant that some red shirts are becoming discontented with both the PTP and the UDD, but if they turn against the UDD that still doesn't mean they're becoming necessarily anti-Thaksin, even though some already are.

[hammered]

Regarding running for election, Nattawut previously failed in his constituency in the south and I'm sure he would again. Kwanchai is actually from Suphanburi not Udon, and I can't see which Udon Thani MP would be willing to step aside for him.

Korkaeow maybe the only one to run in his constituency.

They are going onto the party list mostly. It is still a difficult balancing act for Thaksin as every red leader he adds means removing an ally powerful in some other way. However, he owes them for arranging the demos even if not as big as promised and going to jail for him so he has little choice. We may see more of the like of the recent Korat defection where whole group of extremely powerful PTP constituency controllers change side and if PTP wants to come forst in the vote let alone win an overall majority it needs to start roling these defections back. To date Korat, Buri Ram and Surin look a lot less PTP than at th last election and where are they going to pick up the seats to replace losses here?

[Buchholz]

Pheu Thai Party voters?

100 red shirts protest against DSI

Some 100 red-shirt protesters rallied at the Department of Special Investigation Friday morning and shouted in unison at the department.

The rally was led by Sombat Boonnagrm-anong, the editor of Laijut online magazine.

Sombat led the protesters to shout "civil servants must serve the people" repeatedly for over ten minutes.

The red-shirt movement accused the DSI of trying to white-wash the government over the fatal crackdowns on red-shirt people.

They dispersed after the shout.

-- The Nation 2011-03-04