Keep Ya Mouth Shut

[Wavefloater]

I guess Thai bar girls continue to work during THAT period of their monthly cycle. (It's a joke, but knowing Thaivisa, I still expect to get slammed from some of the more politically correct types of members.)

But seriously, her reaction is obviously unreasonable and other factors must be assumed -- cheated recently by a foreign customer (who looked similar to the OP), bad fight with the boyfriend, not enough money for her favourite stimulant....who knows?

To the OP: You have to let us know how this plays out in the end, but I, like others, feel it's likely you won't see the inside of a court room. If there's any sort of preliminary screening by the prosecutor's office, this one will most likely be chucked out. However, I'm foolishly applying western logic to a Thai situation, so gawd knows what will actually transpire.

BTW, we must remember that the true definition of a bitch is really nothing more than "a female dog". Perhaps the OP should use that in his defense. "Gee, your Honour, I could have sworn that I saw a furry tail coming out from under her dress."

Edited March 2, 2011 by Wavefloater

[Foxman888]

What is a Kwaii ?

A Buffalo

[random]

The reason it will never see the inside of a court for trial is this, under the Thai system both parties will be urged to negotiate, eventually if no negotiation is reached the two parties will negotiate in front of a judge, if this then fails only then will it go forward. the first stage you are looking at taking one year, if no deal is reached expect another one or two years before any trial situation.

At negotiation I would imagine a Judge to send her away with a flea in her ear and 20 Baht for the glass, but at this stage you say this is not enough as you have now incurred legal costs because of her frivolous charges against you, so in negotiation you demand that she pays your legal costs. She will also need to employ a lawyer to see her through the proceedings.

her hope is that you panic and pay her what she wants, under no circumstances should you do this, let this pan out and I have a feeling it will all just go away when she sees she is going to get nothing with her attempted extortion, I say extortion because that is what it is.

[supaprik]

wish the Op could post the bar name so i could go and meet this whore/bitch

[chuang]

It seems that most of you support the OP....i wonder how many of you do not mind having your female family members being called a.." F Bitch "...come on give us a vote....

[ballpoint]

It seems that most of you support the OP....i wonder how many of you do not mind having your female family members being called a.." F Bitch "...come on give us a vote....

I wouldn't. But then again, I was raised by wolves.

[doggie888888]

I knew someone who openly told an Isaan lass that she was good for nothing except pole dancing. Isaan lass said she could get the foreigner deported for insulting a Thai. 3 years later, the foreigner is still here, still abusing locals and I have disassociated myself from this particularly loathsome foreigner. But I always wondered if there was such a thing as being deported for insulting a Thai?

[robblok]

It seems that most of you support the OP....i wonder how many of you do not mind having your female family members being called a.." F Bitch "...come on give us a vote....

IF she behaves like a bitch like the girl in the story did then by all means call her a bitch.

[Wavefloater]

It seems that most of you support the OP....i wonder how many of you do not mind having your female family members being called a.." F Bitch "...come on give us a vote....

I don't think people are supporting the OP's actions of calling this bar girl a f---- bitch but rather opposing her ridiculous demand for 5000 baht replacement value for a 20-baht glass. That absurd amount of money was enough to spur the OP on to lose his temper and blurt out what would be a fairly mild expletive in most of our cultures, so the defense that her actions warranted his use of a term like that seems somewhat justified.

So, I vote that the.........aw, never mind. It's a no-win situation.

[welsh1]

Firstly, there is no way the police would file criminal charges against anyone for calling someone a name, especially if not in the public domain.

Second, if I had been the OP, I would have offered to pay 50 baht for the broken glass and denied calling the Bargirl a bitch or any other names.

As one poster has already suggested, there probably more to this than the OP is letting on.

They are only 90 baht for a box of 12 .. that works out at 7.5 baht

[Moonrakers]

It seems that most of you support the OP....i wonder how many of you do not mind having your female family members being called a.." F Bitch "...come on give us a vote....

But then, none of my female would be acting like a bitch in the first place. If they were, then I would be the one calling them said word.

[Ijustwannateach]

It seems to me that the normal rules for avoiding social confrontation in language with strangers are even more important here. It's not only the literal meaning of the word, but the emotional negativity associated with it for Thais, that foreigners don't understand. I've never personally felt, for example, that being called by my father's name is a particularly insulting behaviour towards me, but I know it is considered a humiliating and insulting experience for Thai males.

So the few English insult words that are known quite well in Thaiglish might have quite different feelings and connotations attached to them- though I somehow feel that most English speaking women would have some pretty hard feelings towards strangers referring to them as 'bitches'- although the English speaking women would most likely not consider the insulting party worth any kind of trouble.

In any case, it seems quite clear that negative words are almost always fighting words here unless you're clearly too powerful or high to touch, or unless you're actually friendly with the people and just talking BS like friends do in any language. I think when it doubt it's better to err on the polite side... maybe OP would agree with me at this point...

[Max2010]

I think there is a LOT more to this than the OP has mentioned.

But, I do agree, there ARE times to keep your mouth shut. Unfortunately, booze has a tendency to loosen the vocal cords. I've been going to Thai bars for 15 years and have YET to have a problem. But, then I don't disrespect other people either.

Good point Mr. Forbes. Fully agree.

Max2010

[Beetlejuice]

Could this turn into another, Kristallnacht, night of the broken glass?

[timekeeper]

I suggest you engage brain before attitude next time. You are lucky that you did not utter that kind of language to more intolerant locals with a shorter fuse. Calling someone a bitch is not going to win you any friends in Thailand even if it's acceptable at home. They already put up with a lot of rude and disrespectful farangs; don't add yourself to the blacklist. Just because you spend money in Thailand does not mean you are entitled to behave like a jerk. When in dispute with the locals, try to be diplomatic. Being aggressive is not going to help your situation. On the contrary, it might lead to more serious consequences. It never ceases to amaze me how some people simply don't know how to behave in a foreign country.

Well, for your information they do behave that way. Here is some advice for you, if you don't like it you are free to leave

i have never heard that before on this forum

how original..........

[timekeeper]

Calling a Bargirl (whore) a bitch,what's wrong whith that.

if the cap fits...........

[Beechboy]

Could this turn into another, Kristallnacht, night of the broken glass?

No there were people who lost their lives that night.

Which brings us neatly back to the point ie. far worse happenings have taken [place in Bkk since this trivial incident, including a possibly fatal accident near where I stay.

My advice to the O/P: Stick it out, treat it as an experience not to be missed. She cannot possibly win and really deserves a good lesson in common sense.

As much as some aspects of Thai society look down upon the drunken farang stereotype, far more aspects of Thai society look further down upon bar girls like her.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Beechboy

[Moonrakers]

I suggest you engage brain before attitude next time. You are lucky that you did not utter that kind of language to more intolerant locals with a shorter fuse. Calling someone a bitch is not going to win you any friends in Thailand even if it's acceptable at home. They already put up with a lot of rude and disrespectful farangs; don't add yourself to the blacklist. Just because you spend money in Thailand does not mean you are entitled to behave like a jerk. When in dispute with the locals, try to be diplomatic. Being aggressive is not going to help your situation. On the contrary, it might lead to more serious consequences. It never ceases to amaze me how some people simply don't know how to behave in a foreign country.

Well, for your information they do behave that way. Here is some advice for you, if you don't like it you are free to leave

i have never heard that before on this forum

how original..........

Ain't it.

To me it translates to: "I don't have anything constructive or intelligent to add, but I'm going to try and be a smart ass anyway"

[F1fanatic]

Some people just don't seem to understand.

You will never get anywhere in Thailand using Western type aggression.

A couple of weeks ago the girlfriend and I decided to buy a cheap aluminium kitchen sink. One of those single unit jobs with a plastic waste pipe.

I already had a good idea of the prices having experience by living in Thailand for so long.

We found a shop and saw what we wanted. The lady quoted me 850 baht. I said fine; I'll take it. Then another women appeared on the scene that I guessed was the shop owner. She interrupted the sales assistant, looked me in the eye and said, sorry, this sink is 1850 baht.

On that note I just turned my back on the women and without further ado or utterance of another word I grabbed my girlfriend and off we went. The women stared at me gob smacked and I thought, great, my actions really hit home plus she lost a sale. I found another shop only 10 metres down the road and bought the same type sink for only 750 baht.

Western type responses do not work here, by all means stand your ground but don't lose your rag. Some of these bargirls can be vicious, the OP is lucky he didn't get a glass smashed in his face or stabbed.

Getting around these problems in Thailand requires a subtle technique, which should be mastered by all farangs if they wish to remain safe and enjoy their lifestyle in Thailand.

Agree. When I'm quoted an outrageous price, I walk out and ignore the shop owner running after me saying "what you pay?".

I don't mind a shop keeper giving me an OTT price that can be negotiated down, but draw the line at someone taking the p.ss. How stupid was the shop owner (in your case) to think you hadn't registered the price quoted by the sales girl?? Then again, how stupid does she think WE are, and why does she have this belief?

[timekeeper]

I suggest you engage brain before attitude next time. You are lucky that you did not utter that kind of language to more intolerant locals with a shorter fuse. Calling someone a bitch is not going to win you any friends in Thailand even if it's acceptable at home. They already put up with a lot of rude and disrespectful farangs; don't add yourself to the blacklist. Just because you spend money in Thailand does not mean you are entitled to behave like a jerk. When in dispute with the locals, try to be diplomatic. Being aggressive is not going to help your situation. On the contrary, it might lead to more serious consequences. It never ceases to amaze me how some people simply don't know how to behave in a foreign country.

Well, for your information they do behave that way. Here is some advice for you, if you don't like it you are free to leave

i have never heard that before on this forum

how original..........

Ain't it.

To me it translates to: "I don't have anything constructive or intelligent to add, but I'm going to try and be a smart ass anyway"

good call

[DiamondKing]

I can’t name the Bar as that really might then become defamation LOL but I will update this thread as and when anything happens hopefully it will fade away but this girl looked pretty determined and was really adamant that she was not accepting apologies.

I found 2 cases similar and one was the Burrowes case which he was fined 500 baht for saying the exact same thing except his was a bit worse based on the statements of his comment to a female immigration officer, the other was an old thread where a guy pleaded guilty again and paid a 1000 baht fine, apparently he worked in Thailand had a thai wife 2 small children and on his next trip out of the country he was told he could never return to Thailand because of the criminal prosecution, that a tough pill to swallow.

Let’s see how this plays out hopefully it will blow over but she was demanding a copy of my passport in the police station which she was told she had no right to (she said for her lawyer)she did not like that either and eventually stormed out.

Lets See

[DP25]

Now ask yourself, what would a Thai man have done in this situation? He would have beat her until she begged for mercy, that's what.

Yeah, Thai men are able to beat up female bar staff with impunity, nothing ever happens like the rest of the staff kicking their head in.

[Beechboy]

Asa matter of interest my friend, is she an attractive lady? I ask this because it appears that she has a massive cip on her shoulder, not just regards you but the World. If she is a bit of a loser, it might explain her bizarre behaviour.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Beechboy

[NALAK]

since bitch is not Thai word cannot see how that would stand up in Thai court, see a lawyer i doubt she has the cash for a long drawn out civil case. see a lawyer. maybe get a mate to bar fine a girl from there thats means she is running a brother illegal, all sorts of ways to play her game, but a long legal battle will scare her off. to much money.

[Semper]

Calling a Bargirl (whore) a bitch,what's wrong whith that.

If you don't know then you are obviously in the wrong country... or should I say... world.

Ok. I don't know. So please explain to me.

[Semper]

Now ask yourself, what would a Thai man have done in this situation? He would have beat her until she begged for mercy, that's what.

She won't back down now as it would be a loss of face since she caused such a ruckus.

For the OP, next time you want to cuss a whore in a bar, use another language which she doesn't understand. You still get the satisfaction and it will just piss them off that much more.

[Semper]

It seems that most of you support the OP....i wonder how many of you do not mind having your female family members being called a.." F Bitch "...come on give us a vote....

If they work as a BG, I would not mind.

[Semper]

I can't name the Bar as that really might then become defamation LOL but I will update this thread as and when anything happens hopefully it will fade away but this girl looked pretty determined and was really adamant that she was not accepting apologies.

I found 2 cases similar and one was the Burrowes case which he was fined 500 baht for saying the exact same thing except his was a bit worse based on the statements of his comment to a female immigration officer, the other was an old thread where a guy pleaded guilty again and paid a 1000 baht fine, apparently he worked in Thailand had a thai wife 2 small children and on his next trip out of the country he was told he could never return to Thailand because of the criminal prosecution, that a tough pill to swallow.

Let's see how this plays out hopefully it will blow over but she was demanding a copy of my passport in the police station which she was told she had no right to (she said for her lawyer)she did not like that either and eventually stormed out.

Lets See

Sue her for being a prostitute.

[Semper]

Firstly, there is no way the police would file criminal charges against anyone for calling someone a name, especially if not in the public domain.

Second, if I had been the OP, I would have offered to pay 50 baht for the broken glass and denied calling the Bargirl a bitch or any other names.

As one poster has already suggested, there probably more to this than the OP is letting on.

Ok lets clear some things up

1.) I offered to pay for the broken glass but anything less than 5000 baht was not accpetable to her which is why the argument ensued and got to the point of me calling her a name.after she was demanding 5000 baht for a 20 baht glass even the Lawyer today told her that was not a reasonable request.

2.) I spent this afternoon in the Police station and the charges I am told are already filed by HER, (not the Police) I received a registered summons to the Police station and the meeting today was to try and clear it however my apologies were not accepted and she refused to withdraw the charge and it will now proceed to the next step whatever that is. I specifically asked what is it for and was told for calling her a F bitch and the lady lawyer that works at the Police station told me the charges are already laid and will now go forward to be processed since she did not accept my apolgies.

3.) there is more to the story but nothing juicy or anything that I did other than I break a glass and then after her calling me a Kwai and demanding 5000 baht that is when I called her a Bitch nothing else to it although I realize it sounds strange LOL the whole thing is strange to me lol

I also cant beleive that charges would be filed just for calling her a name but I was not imagining being in the Police station several time and being specifically told its for calling her a Bitch

Dk

shouldnt you give a cupple thousand to police to make it all go away? its not like you killed somebody

For a broken glass. Are you serious

[makkam]

It`s all a big bluff. They are playing on your fears.

The nice policeman is probably her pimp or a relative.

You actually put yourself on the hook by admitting that you swore at the bargirl. Your best defence is to not admit or say anything.

I would just offer to pay for the broken glass and if they are not content with that, tell them to do they`re worst. Believe me this will never go to court.

My first thought was the bar is owned or co owned by a BiB.

If they come up with '' witnesses '' that you were throwing chairs around then a problem.

Nope no chairs were thrown LOL and she bought the whole bargirls with her to the Police station must of been 10 of them there as her witnesses that I called her a name the glass really is not the problem she is more pissed that I called her a bitch

OH, faced with reality was a problem for her. English must have been good to understand the word, probably been called it a few times eh.

Interesting point!

As the Op is in a country where English is not the native language, it leaves the definition of the word bitch open to all types of conjecture.

The 'victim' may understand one connotation of the 'supposed' insult, but dictionaries can provide various other meanings to the term dependent upon situation, environment, tone of utterance, audience etc.

How would a native thai speaker conclusively prove that the word was uttered with malice aforethought?

At the end of the day it will probably be decided upon who has the best 'connections'.