Tourist Deaths In Chiang Mai Just A ‘Coincidence’

[Suradit]

The sad thing is, I have become numb to this sort of news.

If you mean scandal mongering by the infamous Andrew Drummond, "numb" only begins to describe it.

Once you get back to UK be sure to renew your subscription to News of the World. That should rev up your compassion meter.

And, as far as the sterling work of UK coroners is concerned, as I posted once before, they don't seem all that much to write home about. A portion of a report on UK post mortems:

A quarter of post-mortem examinations performed on the request of a coroner are poor or unacceptable, according to a report out today.

The National Confidential Enquiry into Patient Outcome and Death (NCEPOD), which carried out the study, found that 26% were unacceptable, 52% were satisfactory and just 23% were good or excellent.

It also found that the cause of death registered by pathologists was "questionable" in about a fifth of all cases.

The NCEPOD operates under the umbrella of the National Patient Safety Agency (NPSA), but is a confidential, independent enquiry.

In one third of mortuaries, the pathologist did not always inspect the exterior of the body before it was opened up and the organs removed, the report said.

It also found evidence that elderly patients were not examined as closely as younger patients and that some autopsies were speeded up.

And where was all the righteous indignation about multiple deaths when this was posted on ThaiVisa?

SHEPSHED, ENGLAND (BNO NEWS) -- A woman and two children were found dead at a house in central England on late Wednesday evening, police said on Thursday.

Police were called to a house in the village of Shepshed in Leicestershire, central England, at around 10 p.m. local time on Wednesday evening. They were alerted after concerns were raised by relatives.

"Officers attended the address and found the bodies of a woman and two children. All were confirmed deceased," a spokesperson for Leicestershire Constabulary said. "The post mortem examinations are expected to take place this afternoon."

The identities and ages of the victims were not immediately released.

Earlier this month, four family members were found dead in a suspected murder-suicide in Leicester of Leicestershire. Among the fatalities were a three-year-old boy and a two-year-old girl.

http://www.thaivisa...._1#entry4241269

Edited March 9, 2011 by Suradit

[bangkokcitylimits]

Tourist deaths in Chiang Mai just a ‘coincidence’

Statistically this it's more or less impossible that this was a coincidence, 1: a couple died together in the same room, that was a coincidence itself ? but 2: more people died is the same hotel. 3: They all died is a short period of time. So this would be actually THREE coincidences, conclusion: IT WAS NOT A COINCIDENCE.

Is it also a coincidence that different guest reviews from people of different countries talk about a VERY BAD SMELL in the room ?

Sorry but I believe simple calculation rather then the statement of the (non-independent) Thai government !

[SVP11]

On January 11th, 2011 Soraya Pandola Vorster, an adventure travel guide with 10 years of leading experience, died of food poisoning in Chiang Mai, Thailand. It was a shocking tragedy that sent waves of pain and disbelief throughout her friends, coworkers and family. She had worked and visited Chiang Mai many times and was a conscious traveler. She was 33 years old, beautiful and extremely healthy with no prior history of health issues. She and her fellow trip leader ate at the same restaurant. Later both got food poisoning and went to the hospital but Soraya was the only one who passed away. That day. To think that 4 more people died in the next month is tragic.

It is criminally negligent that the Chiang Mai and Thai police are hurridly and without thought to the friends and family who are suffering their loved ones deaths, are covering up what is obviously NOT A COINCIDENT. It should be embarrasing to the American, British and New Zealand consulates that they are allowing the Thai authorities to minimize the deaths of their citizens. It is insulting.

Something should be done. Action should be taken to find out what really happened and the consulates involved should not enable the Chiang Mai police's negligence.

Bate Palmas, pra ela.

[KeyserSoze01]

These deaths are very likely caused by cyanide.

Or perhaps the cleaning staff mixed a little ammonia and chlorine together as a cleaning solution... Nothing like a little chlorine gas to put out your lights, permanently...

[hardy1943]

At the press conference at Chiang Mai police headquarters today Chiang Mai Governor Pannada Disakul tried to allay fears of tourists caused by the four deaths in one hotel last month by saying: "We have to admit that these deaths coming one after another, are nothing more than coincidence. We have done and will continue to do our utmost to make tourists confident in our city."

I was hoping that they would say that they would do their utmost to find out what the tourists died of...

You're kidding right? Do you think the Chiang Mai police honestly care? Heck we still can't even get the facts on David Carradine dying in Bangkok. Farangs don't matter here. Never did, never will.

We are just like a bank card here. When it expires we are gone forever.

[swillowbee]

... the families of the deceased would do well to gather around the family of the New Zealander Sarah Carter, whose death is purported under forensic investigation ... if they are unable to secure samples for their own analysis, they would be well-served to hire an independent (and non-Thai) forensic team to follow every step, every procedure, every result of the Thai forensics investigation.

... the only evidence to the deaths could be quickly cremated, the case closed and the whole situation swept beneath the carpet ... the ROYAL Thai Police get paid-off by the commercial interests, they endure a little diplomatic squealing and then it all passes.

... bloody hell, Thailand is NOT the country in which I want to die.

[Amras]

For a third world country Thailand is pretty safe, but this is a third world country, where the police are a waste of space, so you have to watch out for yourself.

I would never book a cheap hotel before I had seen it, nor would I eat at a place that looked iffy, nor venture into an area that looked unsafe. If I did any of these things, realising my mistake, I would walk away very quickly and always find a better alternative.

I make the assuption that the police are there as a visual deterent to crime... and nothing more. In the same way that shop assistants are a visual deterent to shoplifting.... and nothing more.

The only thing that is of help is this sort of website, now I know not to stay in a Downtown Inn in Phuket.

Maybe we need a full blacklist directory to consult, "A tourist guide to avoiding death.."

Just to be accurate, Thailand isn't classed as a third world country. It is the inbetween called a developing nation. Much different to true third world countries like in Africa, the middle east etc. Vast differences between the two. Not many third world countries I know of have huge shopping malls, high speed internet etc.

The issue of the police is a completely different one and obviously one day hopefully get's fixed. But the casualness of the police is what many enjoy about thailand, with respect to some rules. Not saying I agree, or disagree, simply pointing out the reality.

[Bakseedaa]

At the press conference at Chiang Mai police headquarters today Chiang Mai Governor Pannada Disakul tried to allay fears of tourists caused by the four deaths in one hotel last month by saying: "We have to admit that these deaths coming one after another, are nothing more than coincidence. We have done and will continue to do our utmost to make tourists confident in our city."

I was hoping that they would say that they would do their utmost to find out what the tourists died of...

You're kidding right? Do you think the Chiang Mai police honestly care? Heck we still can't even get the facts on David Carradine dying in Bangkok. Farangs don't matter here. Never did, never will.

We know all about David Carradines death, have you not seen the Movie..??

[bangkokcitylimits]

Just to be accurate, Thailand isn't classed as a third world country. It is the inbetween called a developing nation. etc. etc.

10 examples of recent upward developments in Thailand ?

Please ?

[DoctorG]

Just saw this mentioned on Australian TV news. Maybe a few potential tourists will change their travel plans.

I hope to survive my next 6 months in Thailand before giving up on it as a retirement haven. The negatives are starting to outweigh the positives. A shame really.

[dunkin2012]

At the press conference at Chiang Mai police headquarters today Chiang Mai Governor Pannada Disakul tried to allay fears of tourists caused by the four deaths in one hotel last month by saying: "We have to admit that these deaths coming one after another, are nothing more than coincidence. We have done and will continue to do our utmost to make tourists confident in our city."

I was hoping that they would say that they would do their utmost to find out what the tourists died of...

You're kidding right? Do you think the Chiang Mai police honestly care? Heck we still can't even get the facts on David Carradine dying in Bangkok. Farangs don't matter here. Never did, never will.

We are just like a bank card here. When it expires we are gone forever.

Nope................. Mostly, Farangs are viewed by Thai people as being high profiles. Even though, they are very low, taxi drives, cleaner, shifted factory work when they are in their countries. They gain much more respect than what they have in their own countries. That is why they like to be here. If they are in Thailand, whoever they are and have a look of western they will get point of view. Some Thai from the rural areas like to marry Farangs as source of income especially in N.E. and nothing more than that. But Farangs ain't Gosh. For the deaths, I am not sure if there is an error they can bribe the authorities to wash away the cases in Thai legal system. The police is notorious but not always. ... Please accept my condolence though.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Not to mock, but a genuine question, when it comes to locals, is it the same kind of detective work or different?

All depends on the status of the victim. If it's someone important to the Powers that Be, you can be sure no expense is spared.

And I mean really important - family and friends. A foreigner, no matter how much status would only inspire go through the motions lip service - if it were say an ambassador then of course his/her country would be expected to contribute all significant resources, best that could be hoped for would be cooperation.

And of course if the perpetrators were People of Influence then that wouldn't happen either.

Competence of course is another question, and will vary depending on the location and people involved, I suspect 99% of the resources are in Bangkok and/or national level.

There's no point in us (outsiders) getting het up about all this, it's just the way it is - accept it or not, stay or leave - up to you!

[chuang]

Co-incidence.....Amazing Thailand..

[dunkin2012]

Just to be accurate, Thailand isn't classed as a third world country. It is the inbetween called a developing nation. etc. etc.

10 examples of recent upward developments in Thailand ?

Please ?

you can live in Cambodia only 6-7 hours by car. There is a heaven for Farangs but most of the things sold in Cambodia are imported from Thailand dude..

[Payboy]

Coincidence

Case closed?

[kuffki]

Just to be accurate, Thailand isn't classed as a third world country. It is the inbetween called a developing nation. etc. etc.

10 examples of recent upward developments in Thailand ?

Please ?

you can live in Cambodia only 6-7 hours by car. There is a heaven for Farangs but most of the things sold in Cambodia are imported from Thailand dude..

Actually most thing in Cambodia are imported from Vietnam and China certainly NOT Thailand

[dunkin2012]

At the press conference at Chiang Mai police headquarters today Chiang Mai Governor Pannada Disakul tried to allay fears of tourists caused by the four deaths in one hotel last month by saying: "We have to admit that these deaths coming one after another, are nothing more than coincidence. We have done and will continue to do our utmost to make tourists confident in our city."

I was hoping that they would say that they would do their utmost to find out what the tourists died of...

You're kidding right? Do you think the Chiang Mai police honestly care? Heck we still can't even get the facts on David Carradine dying in Bangkok. Farangs don't matter here. Never did, never will.

We know all about David Carradines death, have you not seen the Movie..??

Carradines's case was written off as Suicide. But the cause of death became widely accepted as "accidental asphyxiation" .... still mysterious

[BarnicaleBob]

On January 10th 2011, a very close friend of mine Soraya Vorster also passed away in Chiang Mai under very similar circumstances. I feel it is important to include her as well so get a more complete understanding of what is happening.

Thank you,

Can you PM me with more details about Soraya Vorster's death? I would like information such as where Soraya was living or staying at the time of contracting the illness, what hospital was involved, symptoms, time line of illness to death, age and general heath prior to illness and any findings by officials as to cause of death.

[softgeorge]

Just saw this mentioned on Australian TV news. Maybe a few potential tourists will change their travel plans.

I hope to survive my next 6 months in Thailand before giving up on it as a retirement haven. The negatives are starting to outweigh the positives. A shame really.

Saw the same show on the ABC myself today. I liked what former State Coroner for Victoria said. "IF A POLICE OFFICER PRESENTED AN INQUEST BRIEF TO HIM WITH THE OFFICERS OPINION ON THE DEATH AS COINCIDENCE THEN THAT OFFICER WOULD BE ON THE UNEMPLOYED LINE AT THE END OF THE DAY" Maybe he is just a former Coroner from Melbourne but he say's coincidence is not a cause of death.

[Pib]

Thailand - Hub of Coincidence. Please come visit us again soon...really, all the strange stuff that happens here is just coincidence.

[bangkokcitylimits]

Coincidence

Case closed?

[No1]

On January 10th 2011, a very close friend of mine Soraya Vorster also passed away in Chiang Mai under very similar circumstances. I feel it is important to include her as well so get a more complete understanding of what is happening.

Thank you,

My sympathies and regrets to your loss and wishes that also this case may eventually be solved.

Unfortunately, neither police nor many posters in this forum have taken note of Soraya's similar fate. Given the fact that in this forum you will find all kinds of different interests you might want to open a separate site to collect information on the cases and to co-ordinate efforts of relatives, friends and governmental organizations to solve them.

[OZinBKK]

My Thai gf says that on the Thai news they are reporting that it was ghosts.

Lordy lordy!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Just to be accurate, Thailand isn't classed as a third world country. It is the in-between called a developing nation. Much different to true third world countries like in Africa, the middle east etc. Vast differences between the two.

Look at some of the countries above Thailand here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

and here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita

Of course it's more politically correct to use "developing", and it's true that "Third World" hardly means anything objective these days (if it ever did).

Personally I'd would just use the term "pathetic" or "pitiful" depending on the context. (joking but just barely)

Not many third world countries I know of have huge shopping malls, high speed internet etc.

Even the poorest countries, including Thailand's beloved neighbors Cambodia and Burma have these things, but they're only for the oppressors running the show, and maybe some privileged foreigners. Even sticking to pure economics rather than politics, the question is: what percentage of the population can actually afford to be consumers of these?

True, Thailand is getting up to maybe 20%, higher than many. More telling to me is the fact that a rural poor person feels like they're trespassing even setting foot inside a place like Siam Paragon.

The issue of the police is a completely different one and obviously one day hopefully get's fixed. But the casualness of the police is what many enjoy about thailand, with respect to some rules. Not saying I agree, or disagree, simply pointing out the reality.

If all of Thailand's laws were strictly enforced then 95% or more of the population would be criminals. Which of course is what allows the brown-shirt mafia to arbitrarily demand payments whenever the opportunity presents.

[bangkokcitylimits]

On January 10th 2011, a very close friend of mine Soraya Vorster also passed away in Chiang Mai under very similar circumstances. I feel it is important to include her as well so get a more complete understanding of what is happening.

Thank you,

My sympathies and regrets to your loss and wishes that also this case may eventually be solved.

Unfortunately, neither police nor many posters in this forum have taken note of Soraya's similar fate. Given the fact that in this forum you will find all kinds of different interests you might want to open a separate site to collect information on the cases and to co-ordinate efforts of relatives, friends and governmental organizations to solve them.

Very good idea ! Not understand why such TV forum isn't there yet ?

[coma]

I am utterly disgusted by the Thai authorities on this one. They are indeed a joke.

[sirchai]

I was a cop, a detective at that, and I've met a fair share of Thai "detectives" in the last few years.Spent hours talking with them.

Simply put, they generally possess a total lack of even rudimentary training and couldn't detect an elephant in a life raft.

So, in many cases, it's not that they are "covering something up," it's that they lack the skills, techniques, experience and facilities to uncover anything. Therefore it is easier to claim it a coincidence than to admit they are stymied, and are clueless as to what to do next.

It's more the old "saving face" thing than mai pen rai.

Without even speaking to any so called detective, i have to agree with you.

I do not think there even is a police academy or detective school, i do not think they have forensic labs, if they do, i doubt its well equipped or even equipped at all(just look at police stations and police vehicles, including bikes)

Autopsy cost money(which again they do not have or do not want to spend) and again may not have properly trained staff, just look at public hospitals, some docs can not even diagnose appendix.

So its no alternative but to declare every death as suicide or accident, unless its so clear, that they simply can not make such a statement, but then the killers are hardly every found,unless police is tipped off

TAT--this is only another 4 that won't be coming back through Swampy. But with 40 million +--who cares.

An elderly British couple who died together in Room 423 of the Downtown Inn in Chiang Mai, died within minutes of each of heart attacks, and the case has been closed.

Died within minutes is to believed true. But not the reason why is such a joke. Shame on those liars.

[marc11864]

Sounds to me then that it is time to advertise this on every possible travel review site out there.

[androssi]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/4748903/McCully-demands-answers-over-Carter-death

Foreign Minister Murray McCully is demanding answers over the death of Kiwi Sarah Carter in Thailand.

Chiang Mai authorities yesterday said the cause of death for three tourists, including Carter, 23, remains mystery. It was thought she died of food poisoning.

McCully said the reponse from officials was ''less than fully convincing so we are going to ask the appropriate further questions.'' He now wants ''further scrutiny.''

Some further forensic work is still to be done on samples, he said. ''We are looking forward to seeing that too.''

Asked if New Zealand should conduct its own investigation, he said ''lets not get ahead of ourselves.''

'''Let's just ask the questions methodically . It's a very sad case obviously...the obvious questions need to be asked and answered fully.''

Thai officials yesterday said they couldn't confirm food poisoning killed Carter. More blood tests are required from two friends who were travelling with her.

The Wellington woman was one of four guests at a city hotel over a three week period last month.

[ding]

I hope happyrobert is right. I also hope this is Thai-English and not a Freudian slip;

We have done and will continue to do our utmost to make tourists confident in our city."

Seems odd that a governor is interested in making people THINK Chiang Mai is safe, rather than figuring this all out and actually MAKE Chiang Mai safe.

Edited March 9, 2011 by ding