Thai Teaching English On Tv

[brahmburgers]

Last night I couldn't get regular satellite TV so I perused some Thai educational channels. There was a Thai woman teaching English. The course was designed around some old Peanuts comic strips - with bad graphic clarity (smudges, broken lines, etc). She mispronounced and mis-read words often. As bad as that, she rambled on and on in Thai, only occasionally mentioning any English words. If students are going to learn English, they have to hear English and begin to think in English.

If I were to grade her performance as a teacher, I would give her a D. The study questions were convoluted and confusing. There was a silly never-used slang used in the comic strip ('rewind' in reference to wanting to re-phrase or start a sentence over). Trying to decipher such drivel reminded me of an 'English to Thai' book I saw once in a Thai university library. A large portion contained ridiculously archaic words which must have been lifted from olde English dictionaries dating back over 250 years. Is that what Thai students should be studying - such students who have trouble constructing the simplest three or four word sentences using the most basic English words?

Does the TV station have any hiring criteria, or do they just take whomever walks in the door and declares, "Yes, me can teach Engrish, no ploblem."

[Fookhaht]

She mispronounced and mis-read words often. As bad as that, she rambled on and on in Thai, only occasionally mentioning any English words. If students are going to learn English, they have to hear English and begin to think in English.

You are also describing the normal, average English lesson taught in thousands of Thai classrooms, by Thai teachers, from primary schools up through university level.

The qualifications for a Thai teaching English publicly (such as Thai TV) will never change as long as the educational system accepts sub-standard language education. All the laws and policies are in place (regarding English-language education in Thai schools). But like many other things in Thailand's government-run systems, the enforcement is not there.

[AyG]

I believe that the DLTV lessons all come from a school in Hua Hin. The teacher wasn't specially selected for her brilliance at teaching English; she's on your screen because she teaches at that school.

(If you think the English lessons are bad, have a look at the French ones. Unbelievably bad.)

[mkawish]

I believe that the DLTV lessons all come from a school in Hua Hin. The teacher wasn't specially selected for her brilliance at teaching English; she's on your screen because she teaches at that school.

(If you think the English lessons are bad, have a look at the French ones. Unbelievably bad.)

Isn't it just bad enough already to bad mouthing English Language taught by superb THAI nationals....

So what if they mispronounce several words in your opinion.... but if the Thai students understood them.... isn't that what count....?

Now you are going to include French Language also....?

Nay, Nay, Nay.... LOL

But then I have to agree with most of you.... it is pretty bad overall....

Until the Edu Dept will hire an educated and properly credentialized farang to lead.... nothing would change much, imho.....

[mkawish]

I believe that the DLTV lessons all come from a school in Hua Hin. The teacher wasn't specially selected for her brilliance at teaching English; she's on your screen because she teaches at that school.

(If you think the English lessons are bad, have a look at the French ones. Unbelievably bad.)

Which school exactly in HuaHin pls?

Was there last month, no one wants to admit anything....?

Know some names pls.... thx :jap:

[brahmburgers]

I speak a bit of Thai. If I went back to California and got a teaching job - teaching Thai to students, I think any Thai person who witnessed my classes would be aghast - at the mispronunciations and mistakes.

That's how English speakers often feel when they hear English being taught by Thais.

The difference is; if I taught Thai, I would try my best to speak Thai in the classroom. I wouldn't ramble on for minutes in English, and then insert a Thai word every once in awhile. Language students need to hear and eventually think - in that introduced language. Indeed, that's probably the main reason why Thai students of English can't converse in English, if they've been taught by a Thai national.

If Thailand wants to catch up with the rest of the world, (or just catch up with other SE Asian countries) in English proficiency, it should make it easy for native English speakers to come here and teach. A degree means little. A person can be a good teacher whether they have a degree or not. A degree is mostly a means for Universities to make money and for the privileged to gain advantage over the not-so-privileged. Many of the greatest teachers in history never had a degree. Did Aristotle have a degree? Neither Bill Gates and Steve Jobs ever got a college degree - yet Thai schools would be compelled by law, to disallow either from teaching here in Thailand.

I have some Hill Tribe friends and some acquaintances in Burma (sidewalk hawkers) - who can converse in English. Those folks have never been to any schools nor ventured outside their townships, yet they can converse in English as well or better than any of the two dozen Thai English teachers I've met.

[AyG]

Which school exactly in HuaHin pls?

Wang Klaikangwan School, which is in the grounds of one of the royal palaces.

[naiharn]

I speak a bit of Thai. If I went back to California and got a teaching job - teaching Thai to students, I think any Thai person who witnessed my classes would be aghast - at the mispronunciations and mistakes.

That's how English speakers often feel when they hear English being taught by Thais.

The difference is; if I taught Thai, I would try my best to speak Thai in the classroom. I wouldn't ramble on for minutes in English, and then insert a Thai word every once in awhile. Language students need to hear and eventually think - in that introduced language. Indeed, that's probably the main reason why Thai students of English can't converse in English, if they've been taught by a Thai national.

If Thailand wants to catch up with the rest of the world, (or just catch up with other SE Asian countries) in English proficiency, it should make it easy for native English speakers to come here and teach. A degree means little. A person can be a good teacher whether they have a degree or not. A degree is mostly a means for Universities to make money and for the privileged to gain advantage over the not-so-privileged. Many of the greatest teachers in history never had a degree. Did Aristotle have a degree? Neither Bill Gates and Steve Jobs ever got a college degree - yet Thai schools would be compelled by law, to disallow either from teaching here in Thailand.

I have some Hill Tribe friends and some acquaintances in Burma (sidewalk hawkers) - who can converse in English. Those folks have never been to any schools nor ventured outside their townships, yet they can converse in English as well or better than any of the two dozen Thai English teachers I've met.

Very good post. You have encapsulated many problems with Thai education.

I would add:

1. Thailand doesn't take English lessons seriously, especially in Thai public

schools because it doesn't take public education seriously. The upper class

people who run Thailand send their children to English speaking countries

abroad where they rapidly pick up excellent natural English, and return home

fluent English speakers after a few years. Why would they

care about what opportunities for the plebs? In fact it is advantageous

to the upper class for this unfair disparity to exist. If all Thais

had a real chance to learn good English, it would mean there would be

less advantage for the hi-so kids.

2. Thailand is hooked on degrees for a number of reasons. None of those

reasons is that a degree represents the completion of a rigorous program of

learning resulting in acquisition of advanced skills and knowledge. That is

meaningless to most Thais. A degree

is just a level of status, like the medals and stripes on a general's coat

(a general who has never fired a shot in anger of course),

another way of discriminating between privileged

people and ordinary people. The requirement for a degree is thrown around

whenever the elite of Thailand want to restrict some service or position and

keep the rif-raff out. (My own country has a reciprocal 'work holiday' treaty

with Thailand - young people from either country can go to the other country

and work for up to years. Except it isn't very reciprocal. The ones who go to

Thailand must have a degree to qualify!)

The other thing about a degree is it just represents STATUS, and there must

hardly be a society on earth more hung up on status than Thailand.

3. Your post and many others in this forum points to what Thailand should do

if it REALLY wanted to help the mass of its population learn English well: it would

free up restrictions on foreign teachers, and make positive encouragements for

really skilful, well-qualified English teachers to come here to work. But that

won't happen because Thailand does not really want ordinary citizens to learn

anything (not just English). The elite who run Thailand would actually prefer

that such people remain in their historically subservient position, looking up to

and serving their betters.

You mentioned Burmese hawkers who spoke good English. I remember once crossing the border

into Cambodia and being surrounded by Cambodian touts with excellent, clear English.

Perhaps they should stop their touting and set up English schools for Thais. They

would teach better English than most Thai English teachers I've run into.

[naiharn]

I believe that the DLTV lessons all come from a school in Hua Hin. The teacher wasn't specially selected for her brilliance at teaching English; she's on your screen because she teaches at that school.

(If you think the English lessons are bad, have a look at the French ones. Unbelievably bad.)

Isn't it just bad enough already to bad mouthing English Language taught by superb THAI nationals....

So what if they mispronounce several words in your opinion.... but if the Thai students understood them.... isn't that what count....?

You just have to be a Thai to write something like this!

"If <she> mispronounces words but the Thai students understood them" then everything is OK? No everything is NOT OK! Because when those poor misled students try to converse with a speaker of real English (not Tinglish) they

a ) won't understand the English speaker, and

b ) the English speaker won't understand them

[pjclark1]

If Thailand wants to catch up with the rest of the world, (or just catch up with other SE Asian countries) in English proficiency, it should make it easy for native English speakers to come here and teach. A degree means little. A person can be a good teacher whether they have a degree or not. A degree is mostly a means for Universities to make money and for the privileged to gain advantage over the not-so-privileged. Many of the greatest teachers in history never had a degree. Did Aristotle have a degree? Neither Bill Gates and Steve Jobs ever got a college degree - yet Thai schools would be compelled by law, to disallow either from teaching here in Thailand.

What they need is English speaking teachers with proper educational qualifications.

Not some numpty with a TEFL.

It takes years to train as a teacher, not six weeks.

Aristotle would have had a degree if they were handed out then.

Bill and Steve weren't teachers, they were just good at making money, an entirely different animal to teaching anything.

[mkawish]

I believe that the DLTV lessons all come from a school in Hua Hin. The teacher wasn't specially selected for her brilliance at teaching English; she's on your screen because she teaches at that school.

(If you think the English lessons are bad, have a look at the French ones. Unbelievably bad.)

Isn't it just bad enough already to bad mouthing English Language taught by superb THAI nationals....

So what if they mispronounce several words in your opinion.... but if the Thai students understood them.... isn't that what count....?

You just have to be a Thai to write something like this!

"If <she> mispronounces words but the Thai students understood them" then everything is OK? No everything is NOT OK! Because when those poor misled students try to converse with a speaker of real English (not Tinglish) they

a ) won't understand the English speaker, and

b ) the English speaker won't understand them

I am really on your side, you know.

imho, 99% of Thai teachers attempting to teach English....

should really at least be able to deliver a 15 minutes English speech....

to impress the English native speakers....

to qualify to teach English, particularly in the beginning grades in school, where basic essential emulation, formulation, adaptation and assimilation mostly takes place....

[SlyAnimal]

There are definitely a lot of gaps in the English of many of the English teachers in Thailand.

But the teachers/schools are doing the best with what they have available, and slowly improving.

The amount of English teachers required, is simply too high to require them to speak English well. They have to use the best they have available.

Since most of the teachers were taught English by people who had even less English than what the teachers of today have. But they're slowly getting better.

It's all an upward spiral, it just takes time.

More farang would of course definitely speed up the process. That's upto the government to remedy, but the schools/teachers are doing the best they can, using the skills/resources they have available.

imo schools should invest in further English training / tutoring for their teachers though, particularly for the ones who teach the intergrated English classes. Sending them to a class / tutoring with some of their farang teachers would be hugely advantageous I think. Although of course just by having even a single farang teacher at their school, the teachers will informally learn more English (assuming that they socialise / converse a bit), since without farang / fillipino to "look after", most Thai English teachers would never actually speak English outside their classroom.

Edited March 15, 2011 by SlyAnimal

[elliss]

The amount of English teachers required, is simply too high to require them to speak English well.

basic english , can be taught be a person who can speak basic english

be that teacher thai or farang .

advanced english , should be taught by a native english speaker .

oxford english , should be taught by a person of oxford UNI origin.

thats made you lot of know alls, unsuitable . :jap:

[Fookhaht]

So what if they mispronounce several words in your opinion.... but if the Thai students understood them.... isn't that what count....?

This comment reminds me of the time i was asked to read questions in English to Thai students who were competing (at the college level) in an English language competition. The questions were composed by Thai teachers.

Just before reading one question, I objected to the Thai teacher next to me that the question was grammatically (insanely) incorrect. Something like: "Tell us about funny hobby of yours to have." The Thai teacher patted me reassuringly on the arm, "Go ahead and read it just like it's written, Ajarn; that's the way we Thai speak English."

[vont]

So what if they mispronounce several words in your opinion.... but if the Thai students understood them.... isn't that what count....?

This comment reminds me of the time i was asked to read questions in English to Thai students who were competing (at the college level) in an English language competition. The questions were composed by Thai teachers.

Just before reading one question, I objected to the Thai teacher next to me that the question was grammatically (insanely) incorrect. Something like: "Tell us about funny hobby of yours to have." The Thai teacher patted me reassuringly on the arm, "Go ahead and read it just like it's written, Ajarn; that's the way we Thai speak English."

ha

ha

ha

However, if you were in charge, you could have just presented it the way it would be grammatically and culturally correct....

I do not think a minute.... that those teachers around you.... would have noticed the difference or that they.... uh.... uh.... discern.... the difference....

Even if some of them did pay attention and noticed the difference.... and perhaps reported you to the Superintendent of the District....

You are still in the right....

But now you are just like one of them.... LOL

Did you succumb....? Just curious.

[Fookhaht]

However, if you were in charge...

I was not in charge, and in the ensuing 2 seconds before presentation, didn't have time to figure out the correct question. Sorry to be such a fallen hero.

[krading]

On my first trip to Thailand a 'temporary TGF' introduced me to a friend of hers who spoke excellent American English.

After chatting for a while I asked how long he had lived in America.

Turns out he was a morman convert who had never been out of Thailand.

But Fookhaht is spot on with his comments.

I watched a lot of DLTV trying to improve my Thai and I was horrified at some of the crap the teachers would come out with.

I would get the same response from my missus, "Mai pen rai darling, that's the way we say it here."

Doesn't matter that they are passing on bad speaking habits, that's the way they were taught and that's the way they will teach others. End of story.

[vont]

However, if you were in charge...

I was not in charge, and in the ensuing 2 seconds before presentation, didn't have time to figure out the correct question. Sorry to be such a fallen hero.

Failure....? Fallen hero....???

Not at all.

Anyone coming to Thailand to impart what they know and give part of their lives for the betterment of Thailand more likely deserve a big applaud and a huge Thank You, instead.

You and many others are the real heroes and heroines making numerous personal and other sacrifices, I salute you all from the bottom of my heart....

[SlyAnimal]

lol if you'd spoken the phrase normally, they probably wouldn't have actually understood it, since they were probably taught by the Thai teachers to say it the other way (and the way it was ordered, was probably the same sentence structure that they use in Thai)

[brahmburgers]

If Thailand wants to catch up with the rest of the world, (or just catch up with other SE Asian countries) in English proficiency, it should make it easy for native English speakers to come here and teach. A degree means little. A person can be a good teacher whether they have a degree or not. A degree is mostly a means for Universities to make money and for the privileged to gain advantage over the not-so-privileged. Many of the greatest teachers in history never had a degree. Did Aristotle have a degree? Neither Bill Gates and Steve Jobs ever got a college degree - yet Thai schools would be compelled by law, to disallow either from teaching here in Thailand.

What they need is English speaking teachers with proper educational qualifications. Not some numpty with a TEFL. It takes years to train as a teacher, not six weeks. Aristotle would have had a degree if they were handed out then.

Bill and Steve weren't teachers, they were just good at making money, an entirely different animal to teaching anything.

We may not agree about what constitutes a good teacher. You appear to believe that credentials make the teacher. I lean to the premise that teaching is an innate skill, somewhat like being proficient at playing music.

A few side notes: I have a Thai friend (parents are Burmese Karen) who speaks English rather well. I had to grin when, years later, I met his teacher, who was also Thai and who made the same mistakes in English grammar and pronunciation that his student had embraced.

From listening to Thais speaking English for a quarter century, I have concluded that there are grammatical and pronunciation mistakes which come down the tubes from the highest levels of the English teaching establishment. It may be partly faulty textbooks (I've seen bunches of mistakes in textbooks) and it may be partly from the upper echelon Thais who teach budding English teachers. The mistakes formulated on high, trickle down to the students.

Incidentally, one of the most fluent Thai English speakers I've had the pleasure to meet, was a young man who, at the time, had never left his Thai town. I asked him how he became so fluent in English. He told me it was from diligently listening to BBC's radio program. I believe that 'learn English' BBC program was canceled a few years ago - if so, that's a shame.

[Ijustwannateach]

Remember that it's likely that anyone with 'face time' on Thai television is most likely extremely well-connected, which is more important than competence. So I doubt the teacher cited is an example of Thailand's best- though many of the points above are generally true, unfortunately.

[Fookhaht]

lol if you'd spoken the phrase normally, they probably wouldn't have actually understood it, since they were probably taught by the Thai teachers to say it the other way (and the way it was ordered, was probably the same sentence structure that they use in Thai)

Exactly!

[Rhys]

Interesting threat.. usual debate NEST vs NNEST... Focus.. should be on the T.... TIT