How Well Off Is The Average Ex-Pat In Los?

[Beechboy]

I realise taht this post might well generate some controversy, but in my head it is long overdue.

I spend 6-8 months of the year in Thailand, mostly Bkk where I permanently rent a cheapish apartment.

My main aim is to escape the cold in England, althogh there are, of course other attractions.

My own country is beautiful in the months I spend there as I find the climate agreeable and tend to bicycle a lot knowing that I dissapate once back in LOS.

I am neither well off nor impoverished, but of course am less than delighted about current exchange rates. So watch it a bit as I never did before.

Now to my point. It seems to me that far too many of the contributions to this Board are by "baht pinchers:"

"This has gone up 3 baht, they charge 20 baht for the toilet, where can I buy the cheapest oil? How much for a haircut? They tried to rip me off 25 baht," etc. etc. it is almost a daily thing.

In some ways, I envy you ex-pats but surely fully committing oneself to the Country must be a bit miserable if you are always having to count the bahts to the smallest detail.

Us more casuals tend to disregard coins for a start, don't know the price of a can of Heinekken in 7-11, never use public transport and tip taxis according to service.

My intention is not to boast in any way but I would have thought that a pre-requisite to "emigrating" to Thailand was to be well off. It is not a place that is much fun on the cheap.

Now please attack me for my arrogance. Please put me right.

P.S. I am not one who fancies the village life plodding around in shorts and sandals.

[Jingthing]

To each his own. Who are you to judge?

[Beechboy]

To each his own. Who are you to judge?

Judge? I was enquiring actually and not intentionally critical for sure.. Why be so defensive?

Edited March 13, 2011 by Beechboy

[p_brownstone]

To each his own. Who are you to judge?

Judge? I was enquiring actually and not intentionally critical for sure.. Why be so defensive?

Whenever I read Posts like this (and there are SO many on this and other Forums), from people who claim to be so financially comfortable, I am forcibly reminded of what Gertrude said to her son in Hamlet:

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Patrick

[Zodiac]

Good post OP and I agree with the statement you make:

that Thailand is " is not a place that is much fun on the cheap."

Unfortunately this country attracts a mass of cheap charlies who have barely got enough money to live here month to month but are tolerated and allowed to stay . I mean people who have no money or have too much time on their hands end up boring the pants off people with both their miserly penny pinching or in one particular case writing 23,000+ posts on forums like this one.

[Jingthing]

To each his own. Who are you to judge?

Judge? I was enquiring actually and not intentionally critical for sure.. Why be so defensive?

As you said,

It is not a place that is much fun on the cheap.

That's your opinion. You suggest it applies to everyone but you aren't everyone. Also, yes, of course, the outlook does indeed tend to look different if you are living in a place full time. You might be surprised what percentage of Pattaya expats for example haven't been inside a go go bar in years, and don't feel deprived.

If you don't want to move here full time unless you feel wealthy enough, which is something you define for yourself, you are most welcome to not move here.

As expats, yes we generally have the choice to leave if we want. Don't confuse whining about price increases as being miserable. People living anywhere complain about price increases. It's part of life everywhere.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Jingthing

[Old Croc]

The guy made a reasonable comment and enquiry. He never mentioned Pattaya, just asked why so many are put out by small price rises or the minor costs of basic things.

He expresed an opinion that to migrate here should require a minimum amount of funds, Again, quite reasonable questions. And he was not judging. He was right about the defensive posts.

While I wouldn't stir up the sensitive by asking about how they live here on minimal funds, it's a fair question.

For the record I finally moved to Thailand last year with a pension and investment income that afford me a comfortable lifestyle here. I wouldn't want to do it on the cheap. I don't deal with coins either, can't be bothered.

[jdinasia]

The guy made a reasonable comment and enquiry. He never mentioned Pattaya, just asked why so many are put out by small price rises or the minor costs of basic things.

He expresed an opinion that to migrate here should require a minimum amount of funds, Again, quite reasonable questions. And he was not judging. He was right about the defensive posts.

While I wouldn't stir up the sensitive by asking about how they live here on minimal funds, it's a fair question.

For the record I finally moved to Thailand last year with a pension and investment income that afford me a comfortable lifestyle here. I wouldn't want to do it on the cheap. I don't deal with coins either, can't be bothered.

I drop my coins in the staff "treat kitty" along with some foldable money too ... the rest of the coins go to temples when we are touring around.

The topic is fair and the original post was fine ... some people are sensitive.

[robblok]

Im not rich but i hate being ripped off even if it is a minor amount. For me its not the amount of money that counts but the feeling. If i can get the same quality but cheaper somewhere ill go there (unless its out of the way) Why pay more for the same thing.

On the other hand i don't mind paying extra for better quality in fact i gladly pay more for good quality items.

For me its normal to look at prices only fools don't care about those.

[Jingthing]

In point of fact, there is NO requirement to be wealthy to "migrate" to Thailand. Check the visa requirements, especially the ED visa. Thailand is still a lower cost country (if you are willing able to live more local, many people like to live more local especially in the food department) both in costs and in visa requirements. The OP's rant lite would have made more sense about perhaps retirees moving to Australia, where you actually DO need to be wealthy.

Sensitive, I don't think so, but I did find the OP rather snotty.

To wit --

Us more casuals tend to disregard coins for a start,

People telling me how many posts I have, you must be the type who tell fat people they're fat. They already know, and in many cases, they really don't care.

If you are offering to pay me 100 baht per post though, then I might be interested ...

Edited March 13, 2011 by Jingthing

[Beechboy]

To each his own. Who are you to judge?

Judge? I was enquiring actually and not intentionally critical for sure.. Why be so defensive?

As you said,

It is not a place that is much fun on the cheap.

That's your opinion. You suggest it applies to everyone but you aren't everyone. Also, yes, of course, the outlook does indeed tend to look different if you are living in a place full time. You might be surprised what percentage of Pattaya expats for example haven't been inside a go go bar in years, and don't feel deprived.

If you don't want to move here full time unless you feel wealthy enough, which is something you define for yourself, you are most welcome to not move here.

As expats, yes we generally have the choice to leave if we want. Don't confuse whining about price increases as being miserable. People living anywhere complain about price increases. It's part of life everywhere.

I dont want to move to Thaialand full-time because I enjoy my English summers.

Never been to Pattaya and have only visited a go-go bar once.

I expected some critics but you seem intent upon missing my point.

[Tracer Round]

Almost all of the people I know in Samui, who stay here or spend more than six months a year here, live very close to the hand-to-mouth level. There are some exceptions. People pinch pennies because they need to.

[paulbrun]

The OP's question is a good one. It caught my eye immediately. There are so many people in differing circumstances though, that it ispossible to answer for all. I know many retirees that are finding it increasingly difficult to survive on just their pension. Some still have income from a property back home, and they tend to be better off, and also still have the option to return home. Then there are those trying to survive on a low income from teaching, for example, who cannot afford the same lifestyle they might have had a few years ago. And then there are those that have relatively high incomes, who can still enjoy a very good lifestyle, compared with what they could expect back in Europe. I have always been of the opinion that one should be careful with ones money, and save for a 'rainy day', so I put all my coins in a bottle, and live a fairly modest lifestyle..! One thing is for sure, the cost of living has gone up considerably since I moved here 20 years ago, and if you don't have some source of income, you will not live very well for long. For those people that 'sold up' everything, and moved to Thailand permanently, they will find it difficult to return to their home country, I would imagine..? One thing is for sure, nobody knows what lies ahead, so the best thing is to plan ahead, and live a modest and sensible life while you can. :jap:

[Jingthing]

If you really want to know how "well off" the average expat here is, may I introduce you to the POLL function of this very board? Without a scientific report, it is obvious there is great diversity of wealth with the westerners here. Of course the super poor are going to hit a wall because there is no safety net here for them, and the super rich tend to go somewhere else that isn't so third world-ish.

Sorry, I didn't really take the OP to be sincere but rather some kind of typical wind up about Cheap Charlies. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

If I am really off base here, so sorry, maybe I can meet you and I can buy you a Chang at the local 7-11, but I must admit I can read numbers, and will be conscious of the price in baht.

Edited March 13, 2011 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

I am still adding to my retirement back "home", and paying back into my retirement accounts what I spent in my first few years living in Thailand. My income from working here more than covers my expenses here. Rental properties back in the US do the rest. Who knows I may retire again when I hit 50, but by then I should have the sustainable income here in Thailand to far more than qualify for retirement

I know people that burnt their bridges when they left "home" and they are suffering. Invested too much in Thailand, aren't getting as many Baht:Dollar (euro/pound whatever) ... I have a friend that moved from a 4 BR house with a pool on the edge of BKK into a 2 BR old condo and is now looking for work in his 60's, and he has no exit plan at all.

His life went from FUN to SAD in a heartbeat.

2 rules --- 1) ALWAYS have an exit plan and 2) Never dip into the exit plan $$

[thrilled]

I read where ya can get by on A million baht A year in Bangkok.I know in Issan ya can live comfortable on less than half of that.

The majority of thai's believe the average farang is rich.If I was your average thai maybe making 12000 baht A month or so,I would probably try and get over on the rich farang also.

So most of the time when I know i've been short changed,I just laugh it off.The thai probably doesn't think that I know that he got over on me.

I also give to local charities in thailand.I love the country.

[DP25]

Us more casuals tend to disregard coins for a start, don't know the price of a can of Heinekken in 7-11, never use public transport and tip taxis according to service.

Livin large brah

[needforspeed]

I walking to Tesco to buy mik as it is 1.75 B cheaper thenTops.

Buy beer at a whole seller safes me 6 B a bottle.

Isn't the money its jus a hobby and i like my hobby.

Don't practice my hobby when going out for a beer as i like to drink Hoegaarden.

But have some experience with people here as:

*Sitting in a bar and after Happy hour they ask you to lent 1000 B as there ATM card doesn't work.

*Buying 4 pint of lager just before happy hour finish.

*Calling that they have no money to by milk and napkins for the baby and still drinking 20 cans of Leo beer a day.

*Telling you that they going to be kicked out of the condo so they need few thousand, same evening you see them in a go go bar buying lady drinks.

Other then that i don't care we all have a differend livestyle, sometime i am happy to safe a few B here and 1 hour later i buying a expensive good sigar.

NFS

[Naam]

It seems to me that far too many of the contributions to this Board are by "baht pinchers:"

"This has gone up 3 baht, they charge 20 baht for the toilet, where can I buy the cheapest oil? How much for a haircut? They tried to rip me off 25 baht," etc. etc. it is almost a daily thing.

that answers your question "how well off is the average expat in LOS?"

[ukrules]

What is it with swimming pools ? I've lived in places with pools over the last few years and I can say that I've never been in the one in my current apartment after being here for about a year and the previous place I was staying at had one too, I was there for about two and a half years, I never went near it.

Very much a Vanity item I suspect. Visitors on holiday from back in 'the west' always use the pools.

[ignis]

I am one who fancies the village life plodding around in shorts and sandals, I would never have moved here if I could not live out in the sticks, have a garden all round the house, have my dogs and fish ponds.

Of course it is a lot cheaper living out in the stick and mostly shopping at the local markets, I don't drink and have never been to a bar of any sort, or bought beer..

On the other hand you must think of when I came and now.... the Exchange rate when I came was 74 baht for 1 GBP now according to the top of this page is 48 baht.... Interest in a Thai Bank was 2.76%, now is something like .50%

There cannot be that many people that do not check prices + buy extra when on offer.. Just simple things like Eggs for the past year the largest size have been 29 baht for 10, 2 weeks ago cheapest was 33 baht, yesterday 2 different Sunday Markets cheapest 42 baht, the other Market was 45 baht.

[Lost in LOS]

In point of fact, there is NO requirement to be wealthy to "migrate" to Thailand. Check the visa requirements, especially the ED visa. Thailand is still a lower cost country (if you are willing able to live more local, many people like to live more local especially in the food department) both in costs and in visa requirements. The OP's rant lite would have made more sense about perhaps retirees moving to Australia, where you actually DO need to be wealthy.

Sensitive, I don't think so, but I did find the OP rather snotty.

To wit --

Us more casuals tend to disregard coins for a start,

People telling me how many posts I have, you must be the type who tell fat people they're fat. They already know, and in many cases, they really don't care.

If you are offering to pay me 100 baht per post though, then I might be interested ...

He may pay you 100 baht not to post

[ESB7]

Live or exist................many exist in a small room and eat noodles 3 times a day......but you do have many that have nice houses, cars and eat/drink out a lot as they have a good pension or investments elsewhere........probably 50/50..........you seem to have the right idea, spend summer in the UK with long evenings and then the colder months here.....

[Bobr]

Yes, there are people here who are living from day to day, but for most expats, I don't think it's a matter of living on the cheap, not having sufficient income or being a cheap Charlie. When you live here (or anywhere else) you spend money differently than you do when you are only there on vacation. Also, being annoyed by being cheated does not mean someone is cheap or short of money. When I vacationed here, I was amazed I could ride a taxi from Bangkok to Pattaya for 2000 baht ($60 usd), now I would not even think of doing that since I know the bus/minivan schedules and have my own car and motorcycle. I could still afford it but the same fare I once thought was a bargain would now seem wasteful.

Others deeply resent the two tiered pricing, or having to pay for things that are free at home. You mention 20 baht for the bathroom; pay toilets are illegal in my home, and to eliminate the obvious problem that would cause, certain businesses are required to provide restrooms for their customers as a requirement for their business licenses. Extorting money out of someone who needs to use a restroom is an evil practice for any business.

Most people I know who have money and assets, and live well in retirement do so because they had a habit of spending wisely and carefully throughout their working lives, that's not being cheap, it's being smart.

[ableguy]

What is it with swimming pools ? I've lived in places with pools over the last few years and I can say that I've never been in the one in my current apartment after being here for about a year and the previous place I was staying at had one too, I was there for about two and a half years, I never went near it.

Very much a Vanity item I suspect. Visitors on holiday from back in 'the west' always use the pools.

maybe you cannot swim

[Spaniel]

Yes, there are people here who are living from day to day, but for most expats, I don't think it's a matter of living on the cheap, not having sufficient income or being a cheap Charlie. When you live here (or anywhere else) you spend money differently than you do when you are only there on vacation. Also, being annoyed by being cheated does not mean someone is cheap or short of money. When I vacationed here, I was amazed I could ride a taxi from Bangkok to Pattaya for 2000 baht ($60 usd), now I would not even think of doing that since I know the bus/minivan schedules and have my own car and motorcycle. I could still afford it but the same fare I once thought was a bargain would now seem wasteful.

Others deeply resent the two tiered pricing, or having to pay for things that are free at home. You mention 20 baht for the bathroom; pay toilets are illegal in my home, and to eliminate the obvious problem that would cause, certain businesses are required to provide restrooms for their customers as a requirement for their business licenses. Extorting money out of someone who needs to use a restroom is an evil practice for any business.

Most people I know who have money and assets, and live well in retirement do so because they had a habit of spending wisely and carefully throughout their working lives, that's not being cheap, it's being smart.

Good reply.

[tonititan]

How well off is the average expat? The problem is that there isn't really an "average" expat. Do you mean average expat TEFL teacher? Average expat international school teacher? Average self-employed expat? Average expat working in Thailand for a western or international company? Average expat on a pension? The "average" lifestyle of each of these groups is probably quite different.

[TPI]

Living in the "North" is an exercise in balance, while the living costs are low travel is comparatively expensive. TESL teachers are pretty thin on the ground and their income is never more than 40K a month....they all seem to have a pretty good lifestyle, while the ex-pats on 30K and less have to live a little less flash, they still have a lifestyle that is the envy of their friends in their home countries!

Ex military bods have the best lifestyle of all, they all seem to do a few hours a month teaching to keep up interest and to help pay for the beer!

In my opinion, from my experience, every expat I've met has molded his lifestyle to suit his income, by doing this they are generally in a very positive mental state having much more control of their lives than would be possible in their home countries.

IMHO :jap: :jap:

[ericthai]

The OP's question is a good one. It caught my eye immediately. There are so many people in differing circumstances though, that it ispossible to answer for all. I know many retirees that are finding it increasingly difficult to survive on just their pension. Some still have income from a property back home, and they tend to be better off, and also still have the option to return home. Then there are those trying to survive on a low income from teaching, for example, who cannot afford the same lifestyle they might have had a few years ago. And then there are those that have relatively high incomes, who can still enjoy a very good lifestyle, compared with what they could expect back in Europe. I have always been of the opinion that one should be careful with ones money, and save for a 'rainy day', so I put all my coins in a bottle, and live a fairly modest lifestyle..! One thing is for sure, the cost of living has gone up considerably since I moved here 20 years ago, and if you don't have some source of income, you will not live very well for long. For those people that 'sold up' everything, and moved to Thailand permanently, they will find it difficult to return to their home country, I would imagine..? One thing is for sure, nobody knows what lies ahead, so the best thing is to plan ahead, and live a modest and sensible life while you can. :jap:

I dont see how you can say the cost of living has gone up considerably over the past 20 years. I dont see it. Yes, the past 1-2 years there has been some big increases but I contribute this to the cost of fuel increase. 20 years ago i think the cost of living was the same if not more expensive, the exchange rate was down around 25B to the USD cost of khow pad was about 15-20B per plate, so yes the cost has gone up to 30B but with inflation and exchange rate i think we are about the same if not lower. it appears you are working as a teacher, Im sure you are getting paid more now than 20 years ago. I have seen the prices of several things come down, i would think this has to due with cheap imports from China and the expansion of industry in Thailand, with Thailand producing more and more goods here for both domestic and exports. Can you give me some examples of things that are considerably increased in the past 20 years but keeping in mind the exchange rate differences. (I agree that things are more expensive now due to exchange rate changes than what they were 10 years ago, when exchange rates were 40-45-50 to the USD) but comparing to 20 years dont agree.

[billd766]

To each his own. Who are you to judge?

Judge? I was inquiring actually and not intentionally critical for sure.. Why be so defensive?

Beechboy I don't think you were judging either.

I am a bit like Ignis

Posted Today, 08:27

I am one who fancies the village life plodding around in shorts and sandals, I would never have moved here if I could not live out in the sticks, have a garden all round the house, have my dogs and fish ponds.

Of course it is a lot cheaper living out in the stick and mostly shopping at the local markets, I don't drink and have never been to a bar of any sort, or bought beer..

On the other hand you must think of when I came and now.... the Exchange rate when I came was 74 baht for 1 GBP now according to the top of this page is 48 baht.... Interest in a Thai Bank was 2.76%, now is something like .50%

There cannot be that many people that do not check prices + buy extra when on offer.. Just simple things like Eggs for the past year the largest size have been 29 baht for 10, 2 weeks ago cheapest was 33 baht, yesterday 2 different Sunday Markets cheapest 42 baht, the other Market was 45 baht.

I am totally in agreement with him.

When I did my financial planning for retirement quite a few years ago the exchange rate was about 76 per GBP and in that scenario I had plans to take my wife and son back to the UK for a (last) visit to show my son where my part of the family was from.

Perhaps also replace the pickup truck etc but with the ER having gone down things like that are a lot further away now.

I am not as well off as I had hoped to be but I am also not as poor as a church mouse.

I think the best term for me is comfortable, with the odd sticky patch now and again.

I usually wear shorts and sandals as I too live in the country on 10 rai of sloping land with granite not too far down. We have a fish pond that overflows in the rainy season and has been dry as a bone since last month

Ignis was talking about the price of eggs but if you lump into that the price of cooking oil up from 47 to 79 baht, 95 gasolene up to 39 baht and 91 to over 45 in places then you tend to look at the odd baht or 2.

When we bought the truck in December 2001 Ford filled the tank (70 litres)and got change from 700 baht as it was 9 something baht a litre and now it is subsidised at 30 baht.

I usually pay about 50 baht for a haircut and the time before last a different barber charged me 100 in the village. I just smiled and walked away and now I go elsewhere and get charged 50 baht.

Most of the markets I buy stuff I pay the same rate as the locals and in one place where I buy fruit the lady always gives me an apple, oranges etc free. I went this morning looking for some decent bananas and she gave me a small hand and a yellow mango for free.

As you said in your original post you are mostly a part timer in Thailand and have different spending patterns to expats who live here full time and I suspect that if you do move here full time you will spend less and count the coins more.

Good luck and thanks for an interesting post.