Four Romanians Arrested In Phuket In Bt100m ATM Scam

[Barin]

Sorry to disappoint all you Thai bashers:

"The complaints from London and the bank reported that ATMs in the UK were fitted with devices to record account information to a USB drive.

The USB drive was then brought to Thailand, where the account information was transferred onto blank ATM cards, after which money was withdrawn from the accounts using local ATMs, Maj Gen Panya explained."

Should read before commenting ...

Why Thailand dude? I am curious to know from these guys. Why not Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, China, the Philippines or where else? Is it Because the legal system is to weak? Or Thailand is a heaven for these crooks.

This kind of ATM card fraud has been around for a decade or so. Mostly practised by Malaysians and Indonesians. Many Malaysians come to Thailand to commit this kind of ATM card fraud because they feel it is more safe to do it in places like Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket, etc.

Russia has introduced smart card based ATM cards in 2006, already 5 years ago. This kind of ATM fraud is impossible with such debit or credit cards...

Why other countries are so sluggish to introduce ATM cards based on smart card technology?

[111tingtong]

[nikotin888]

Good one!555

Edited March 15, 2011 by nikotin888

[KKK]

Me thinks I'll be doing me withdrawls by standing in line and dealing with a real teller. Not gonna use ATMs until security is beefed up.

[metisdead]

Posts and replies that were of a derogatory nature have been removed.

[bitterbatter]

I personally found a skimmer and camera hidden in a flyer box to the left of the ATM at a Krungsri ATM close to Tukom shopping mal (outside the actual bank) in Pattaya. I always give the card inserter thingy a good push/pull before putting my card in, check for hidden cameras in flyer boxes and cover the keypad when entering my pin, however I never knew they had key pad loggers like above, need to start being aggressive with the keypad also. These skimmers come free relatively easy with a good pull. Should have seen the staff in the bank when I walked in with it.

The only reason I do this is because I watched a documentary years ago on how Eastern European scammers come over to the UK specifically for this. Also be careful when handing over your credit card in restaurants and the like, even in small shops, it only takes a matter of seconds to skim your card under the counter. Trust no-one and never let your card get out of sight.

Ive had one of my VISA cards skimmed from somewhere in Thailand (not an ATM), I only found out when I noticed on a statement approx. $1500 was spent on some telephone service in Sweden!! Just for those who don't know, if you use a credit card, ie VISA/MasterCard etc you are automatically covered with your issuer against fraud, but double check just incase. Debit cards as far as im aware are not covered (i think you have to pay extra for this and set it up in advance), so your account is at risk and you wont get a sausage back from your bank.

Bottom line use your credit card as much as possible as WHEN you get scammed you will get your money back, eventually. Apologies if I have some of the information wrong, but this has been my personal experiences over the years.

I know the initial OP was folk being scammed in Europe and their details used over here, but believe me it happens here also.

Hope this helps raise awareness to this annoying problem

Great advice. I didn't realize I was that vunerable. It is too easy for a scammer to set this up. Asking or expecting the owners of the ATM's to take responsibility or liability is too much. We must take these matters into our own hands.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[exbelg]

only take money from aTM of your bank branche would be a good idea???

that material looks very professional

they withdrew 100.000.000 baht overhere ? and how can they send all that money abroad? I am sure you cannot send money abroad trough an atm machine, can you ? I mean to another person international bank account ?

[tragickingdom]

ATM skimming is a typical Eastern European Art. Just as blowing up ATM's are given the fact that there are numerous old style ATM's in Thailand one would expect that to happen next. The bottomline is however that banks in Thailand, the USA and a couple of other countries are plain lazy and are refusing to give up the 1970's magnetic strip. Remove it, use a chip and there is no such robbery possible anymore,

[anterian]

I solved this problem years ago, I have two accounts but only one card. I keep the bulk of my money in the account which has no card, when I want cash etc I simply transfer the amount I need from the account without a card to the account with a card. Thus my card is never worth more than 10,000 Baht and that at random intervals, normally it sits at about 1000 Baht. As I check my balance every other day I would soon notice a withdrawal.

My British cards stay indoors and are only used for things like Ebay, Paypal or Moneybookers, all of which garantee me against fraud,

[mkawish]

Sorry to disappoint all you Thai bashers:

"The complaints from London and the bank reported that ATMs in the UK were fitted with devices to record account information to a USB drive.

The USB drive was then brought to Thailand, where the account information was transferred onto blank ATM cards, after which money was withdrawn from the accounts using local ATMs, Maj Gen Panya explained."

Should read before commenting ...

Why Thailand dude? I am curious to know from these guys. Why not Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, China, the Philippines or where else? Is it Because the legal system is to weak? Or Thailand is a heaven for these crooks.

Try Singapore.... ever remember the youngster named Michael Fayes (?)....

he was canned some fierce 18 (?) strokes resulting in dripping blood....

for something much less severe.... such as spraying auto in the parking lot.... if my recall is any good....

For ATM stuff.... ha.... heavens only know.... what the consequences would be for that....

[111tingtong]

I solved this problem years ago, I have two accounts but only one card. I keep the bulk of my money in the account which has no card, when I want cash etc I simply transfer the amount I need from the account without a card to the account with a card. Thus my card is never worth more than 10,000 Baht and that at random intervals, normally it sits at about 1000 Baht. As I check my balance every other day I would soon notice a withdrawal.

My British cards stay indoors and are only used for things like Ebay, Paypal or Moneybookers, all of which garantee me against fraud,

Sound advise +1 to that why not go one further and open a Foreign Currency Deposit Account, then you can save on the exchange rate at the same time (depending when you drop it into your Thai Currency Deposit/Savings Account off-course), instead of transferring it all initially at the same exchange rate.

[anterian]

I solved this problem years ago, I have two accounts but only one card. I keep the bulk of my money in the account which has no card, when I want cash etc I simply transfer the amount I need from the account without a card to the account with a card. Thus my card is never worth more than 10,000 Baht and that at random intervals, normally it sits at about 1000 Baht. As I check my balance every other day I would soon notice a withdrawal.

My British cards stay indoors and are only used for things like Ebay, Paypal or Moneybookers, all of which garantee me against fraud,

Sound advise +1 to that why not go one further and open a Foreign Currency Deposit Account, then you can save on the exchange rate at the same time (depending when you drop it into your Thai Currency Deposit/Savings Account off-course), instead of transferring it all initially at the same exchange rate.

Because the last time I looked the annual fee was 200 pounds for such an account. I use Moneybookers to transfer between the UK and Thailand, I sit at my computer, it takes no effort, is very safe and costs me about 3 pounds per transaction of 500 pounds.

[sirchai]

The alleged criminals look very relaxed. May this was just a 'misunderstanding'?

I guess they won't stay long at the police station. Thai cops are learning fast...............:jap:

[hoaker]

It's good to see some coordination between the international enforcement agencies, banks and the Thai cops. 100 mil baht is not chump change. For some bloke in London who discovers his account is low by hundreds or thousands of quid because of withdrawals made in Phuket when he never left the UK, I'm sure this some welcome relief.

I hope UK banks don't settle this fraudulent amount with the Thai Banks and let them take the hit for not thinking investment in security is good for business on the long term....

[SICHONSTEVE]

looks like thai atm are outdated and have serious security loopholes, if information from the skimmed uk cards is send to thailand.

all this scams from the international gangs are on the top of the local gangs, trying to call bank users and steal sensitive info from them. Every few weeks somebody from my family is called from the "bank" and asked to go to some particular cash mashine and enter pin, to re-activate their card.

It wasn't information that was sent to Thailand but the USB drive itself (scammimg device) which was found in the hotel room, as I understand things. What I don't get is how they obtain the pin-numbers for each respective card for withdrawing the cash as this should stored separately from the info on the USB drive and be known only to the owner of the skimmed card and the respective bank to access the money.

[111tingtong]

looks like thai atm are outdated and have serious security loopholes, if information from the skimmed uk cards is send to thailand.

all this scams from the international gangs are on the top of the local gangs, trying to call bank users and steal sensitive info from them. Every few weeks somebody from my family is called from the "bank" and asked to go to some particular cash mashine and enter pin, to re-activate their card.

It wasn't information that was sent to Thailand but the USB drive itself (scammimg device) which was found in the hotel room, as I understand things. What I don't get is how they obtain the pin-numbers for each respective card for withdrawing the cash as this should stored separately from the info on the USB drive and be known only to the owner of the skimmed card and the respective bank to access the money.

Cameras and keypad loggers

[sirchai]

I solved this problem years ago, I have two accounts but only one card. I keep the bulk of my money in the account which has no card, when I want cash etc I simply transfer the amount I need from the account without a card to the account with a card. Thus my card is never worth more than 10,000 Baht and that at random intervals, normally it sits at about 1000 Baht. As I check my balance every other day I would soon notice a withdrawal.

My British cards stay indoors and are only used for things like Ebay, Paypal or Moneybookers, all of which garantee me against fraud,

Sound advise +1 to that why not go one further and open a Foreign Currency Deposit Account, then you can save on the exchange rate at the same time (depending when you drop it into your Thai Currency Deposit/Savings Account off-course), instead of transferring it all initially at the same exchange rate.

Because the last time I looked the annual fee was 200 pounds for such an account. I use Moneybookers to transfer between the UK and Thailand, I sit at my computer, it takes no effort, is very safe and costs me about 3 pounds per transaction of 500 pounds.

Could you please write more details about your account, plus full name, city..a.s.o.?

[alexth]

Darn gypsies...giving all Romanians a bad name

[bkk_mike]

Why Thailand dude? I am curious to know from these guys. Why not Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, China, the Philippines or where else? Is it Because the legal system is to weak? Or Thailand is a heaven for these crooks.

At least partly because Thai ATMs are still using magnetic strips only.

This kind of ATM card fraud has been around for a decade or so. Mostly practised by Malaysians and Indonesians. Many Malaysians come to Thailand to commit this kind of ATM card fraud because they feel it is more safe to do it in places like Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket, etc.

Russia has introduced smart card based ATM cards in 2006, already 5 years ago. This kind of ATM fraud is impossible with such debit or credit cards...

Why other countries are so sluggish to introduce ATM cards based on smart card technology?

smart card ATM machines would prevent this happening in Russia. However it wouldn't prevent it happening to Russians as the cards usually still have a magnetic stripe so that they can be used in backward countries that haven't completely switched to smart cards (like the US, Thailand).

After all, all credit/debit cards issued in the UK have had smart cards for years now. But they still have the magnetic stripe for use abroad, so people can still skim. If anything, it's better for the cardholder as the foreign transaction (using the skimmed magnetic stripe on a blank card) are easier to prove they're bogus.

The downside of chip and pin is the increased opportunity for people to spy out your pin number as it's used a lot more.

[dunkin2012]

Why Thailand dude? I am curious to know from these guys. Why not Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, China, the Philippines or where else? Is it Because the legal system is to weak? Or Thailand is a heaven for these crooks.

At least partly because Thai ATMs are still using magnetic strips only.

This kind of ATM card fraud has been around for a decade or so. Mostly practised by Malaysians and Indonesians. Many Malaysians come to Thailand to commit this kind of ATM card fraud because they feel it is more safe to do it in places like Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket, etc.

Russia has introduced smart card based ATM cards in 2006, already 5 years ago. This kind of ATM fraud is impossible with such debit or credit cards...

Why other countries are so sluggish to introduce ATM cards based on smart card technology?

smart card ATM machines would prevent this happening in Russia. However it wouldn't prevent it happening to Russians as the cards usually still have a magnetic stripe so that they can be used in backward countries that haven't completely switched to smart cards (like the US, Thailand).

After all, all credit/debit cards issued in the UK have had smart cards for years now. But they still have the magnetic stripe for use abroad, so people can still skim. If anything, it's better for the cardholder as the foreign transaction (using the skimmed magnetic stripe on a blank card) are easier to prove they're bogus.

The downside of chip and pin is the increased opportunity for people to spy out your pin number as it's used a lot more.

Thank you BKK_mike;

From your thread, I become to understandin' very much of how the system works in many other countries including Thailand. I really appreciate it. Are you one of the electronic Engineers? Haha.... Good job. I hope Thaivisa fellows would read yours so they can understand thoroughly in order to prevent this from happenin' with 'em. How good would it be? if there are many people like you with the in depth knowledge here.. dude

Edited March 15, 2011 by dunkin2012

[asiawatcher]

Keep your cash in a hole in the ground. Banks suck. If you are travelling stick with travellers cheques, they are replaceable, cash at ATM's is not and having travellers cheques does not allow access to your pool of funds!

[newsite12]

What is all this crud about Thai ATMs being less secure than the rest of the world.....lol

ATMs are ATMs, they are mostly made by the same manufacturers that supply most of the ATMs worldwide.

UK ATMs and USA ATMsare no more secure than ones in Ghana..

Obviously the skimming is done in countries where people are seen to have a lot more money in the bank than someone in a developing country, so they get a bigger gain. the reason the perpetrators use Thailand to withdraw the funds, is the same reason card fraud has always been conducted mostly in a different country... the fraudsters feel safer being many miles away from the crime origin, also it is more complex to invstigate international crimes, as multple authorities need to get togerther and communicate buying extra time.

Then there is the ultimate bonus of the 'possibility' of being able to 'buy' your way to freedom if and when you do get nabbed... Which i have a feeling may well be the outcome here if the bulk of the money is sat hidden somewhere

Edited March 15, 2011 by newsite12

[harleyclarkey]

There must be an ATM scam college in Romania somewhere... as it is nearly always a Romanian who is caught stealing and scamming. They are caught regularly all over Europe.

If the scam netted them 100 MILLION baht in Thailand alone, can we guess or imagine their world wide take? It must be horrendous.

ps...thanks for the pics of the devices....it will pay just to give a quick check to the slot in future.

[MAJIC]

I think some of you missed the part where the card numbers were stolen in the UK, not Thailand.

Makes one wonder why they had to come to Thailand to use the cards,and complete the Scam, though?

Anyone have the explaination?

Edited March 15, 2011 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

I think some of you missed the part where the card numbers were stolen in the UK, not Thailand.

And how would they know,that the cards numbers,are for use in Thailand.

Edited March 15, 2011 by MAJIC

[newsite12]

I think some of you missed the part where the card numbers were stolen in the UK, not Thailand.

Makes one wonder why they had to come to Thailand to use the cards,and complete the Scam, though?

Anyone have the explaination?

Like I explained earlier.

This sort of crime has been going on for years, a lot of the time stolen cards and details are moved abroad to put distance between the fraudster and the victim. The first alarm will sound in the UK or wherever and this buys a little extra time, although that time is coming down lower and lower as technology improves. But that little extra time while the authorities communicate with each other, can be the difference between getting caught and getting away.

Also, Thailand has an unusually high number of ATM machines.. they seem to be everywhere, and there are not a lot of queues waiting at them, i rarely have to wait behind someone, and dont recall many times where people are waiting for me. So it is a lot more private at an ATM than in the UK. Also less surveylance cameras around.. UK is saturated with them.

Then if they did eventually get caught, they know so long as they have 100 million baht sat safely somewhere, it is just a case of asking your lawyer to politely arrange 20 million of it to hit the correct pockets, and hey presto, you are free to go. That is something you won't be able to do in the UK. Yet it is common knowledge that money buys freedom in Thailand.

So all in all, i would think Thailand is the obviouse place to come and complete the heist.

[Nisa]

ATM skimming is a typical Eastern European Art. Just as blowing up ATM's are given the fact that there are numerous old style ATM's in Thailand one would expect that to happen next. The bottomline is however that banks in Thailand, the USA and a couple of other countries are plain lazy and are refusing to give up the 1970's magnetic strip. Remove it, use a chip and there is no such robbery possible anymore,

Actually outside the countries around the UK , I don't believe any other country has moved fully to eliminating magnetic strip ATM machines. In fact I am not even sure the UK has fully switched over.

Very off to think a developing nation should be at the same level as the UK who is clearly WAY ahead of other nations in terms of leading this race regarding more secure ATM cards/machines. Maybe it is because there is other cheaper technology around the corner? Maybe countries are lazy but the bottom line is I doubt US Credit Card companies are ignoring these issues considering they are the major card holders and taking the biggest losses. As for Thailand, they are moving to the smart cards but just like in the UK ... it takes time.

Again, great job by the Thai police catching these Farang criminals praying on other Farangs.

[Nisa]

It's good to see some coordination between the international enforcement agencies, banks and the Thai cops. 100 mil baht is not chump change. For some bloke in London who discovers his account is low by hundreds or thousands of quid because of withdrawals made in Phuket when he never left the UK, I'm sure this some welcome relief.

I hope UK banks don't settle this fraudulent amount with the Thai Banks and let them take the hit for not thinking investment in security is good for business on the long term....

LOL ... how ridiculous. They are UK Cards designed by the UK and designed to work on the ATM machines here and in all the rest of the world that hasn't moved to the UK standard. If the UK Banks choose to invest in developing nations & third world nation's banking technology then they can blame the host country for not using their technology. They can also ban the use of their cards in places like the US who have not rolled out smart chip technology solely at any public ATMs

They should also not hold a UK Auto insured responsible for an accident in the USA if they were driving on the left side of the road

Edited March 15, 2011 by Nisa

[sweden4ever]

Do you really think these guys choosed Thailand because they wanted a vacation???

It is not about Thailand bashing. It is about the thai bank system.

These guys know they never can use a forged ATM card in EU because the ATM mashines over there read the informations from the chips and not from megnetic stripes.

In thailand the ATM mashines read the information from the magnetic stripes.

Thats why these gangs come to thailand.

Sorry to disappoint all you Thai bashers:

"The complaints from London and the bank reported that ATMs in the UK were fitted with devices to record account information to a USB drive.

The USB drive was then brought to Thailand, where the account information was transferred onto blank ATM cards, after which money was withdrawn from the accounts using local ATMs, Maj Gen Panya explained."

Should read before commenting ...

Why Thailand dude? I am curious to know from these guys. Why not Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, China, the Philippines or where else? Is it Because the legal system is to weak? Or Thailand is a heaven for these crooks.

It is because they wanted to have a vacation here.

Sometimes your bashers are really pathetic.

Edited March 15, 2011 by sweden4ever

[bobbysan124]

It's a problem everywhere - sophisticated countries or not. One just needs to be as cautious as possible when using plastic for transactions of any sort.