Toyota Discrimination Policy

[WarpSpeed]

Do you have PR or Thai Citezenship.....if not and you are just on a visa/extension then of course you are a higher risk......Remember Thais that buy on credit are residents and cant run away from commitments as easily as foreigners.....think you may find that in the western world, unless you were working/resident etc, you wouldnt stand a chance of getting a car on credit, so Thailand is pretty much friendly.....

<deleted>! It was the girlfriend in whose name the car would be. It was she that was entering or proposing to enter into a finance agreement, and it was a Thai that was going to provide the required guarantee.

Doesn't anyone read threads before jumping on the bandwagon?

The OP -A Farang -was just a by-stander in effect.. If he had not been there the sale would probably have gone through with a 20% down-payment or even less!

So what is this if not DISCRIMINATION AGAINST A THAI!

Of course they could have gone back to another Toyota garage where the OP was warmly welcomed before, but the damage had been done by then.

And it was still very much an open choice between the Ford and Toyota.

<deleted>, dosnt anyone read a thread carefully....The OP decided not to go ahead as they wanted a 30%deposit, he is paying for the car and the salesperson obviously knew that, hence the higher risk and larger deposit required

It's none of the SALES persons business where the money comes from, only WHO is repaying....

[katabeachbum]

Do you have PR or Thai Citezenship.....if not and you are just on a visa/extension then of course you are a higher risk......Remember Thais that buy on credit are residents and cant run away from commitments as easily as foreigners.....think you may find that in the western world, unless you were working/resident etc, you wouldnt stand a chance of getting a car on credit, so Thailand is pretty much friendly.....

<deleted>! It was the girlfriend in whose name the car would be. It was she that was entering or proposing to enter into a finance agreement, and it was a Thai that was going to provide the required guarantee.

Doesn't anyone read threads before jumping on the bandwagon?

The OP -A Farang -was just a by-stander in effect.. If he had not been there the sale would probably have gone through with a 20% down-payment or even less!

So what is this if not DISCRIMINATION AGAINST A THAI!

Of course they could have gone back to another Toyota garage where the OP was warmly welcomed before, but the damage had been done by then.

And it was still very much an open choice between the Ford and Toyota.

<deleted>, dosnt anyone read a thread carefully....The OP decided not to go ahead as they wanted a 30%deposit, he is paying for the car and the salesperson obviously knew that, hence the higher risk and larger deposit required

It's none of the SALES persons business where the money comes from, only WHO is repaying....

of course the sales person gathers info on where the money is coming from, especially when credit rating is low and monthly displayed income is insufficient as it seems in this case. Then present this info to finance company to consider

have done this on 8 cars in LOS so far

[cardholder]

of course the sales person gathers info on where the money is coming from, especially when credit rating is low and monthly displayed income is insufficient as it seems in this case. Then present this info to finance company to consider

have done this on 8 cars in LOS so far

You really are quite dim. The income was quite sufficient to satisfy the requirements - as evidenced by the agreement with the Ford purchase. This is, of course, applying the same logic that a government employee earning 9k p.m. is deemed to be a suitable guarantor.

[WarpSpeed]

<deleted>, dosnt anyone read a thread carefully....The OP decided not to go ahead as they wanted a 30%deposit, he is paying for the car and the salesperson obviously knew that, hence the higher risk and larger deposit required

It's none of the SALES persons business where the money comes from, only WHO is repaying....

of course the sales person gathers info on where the money is coming from, especially when credit rating is low and monthly displayed income is insufficient as it seems in this case. Then present this info to finance company to consider

have done this on 8 cars in LOS so far

Right! PRESENTING info to the professionals I.E. the finance company which the OP has stated numerous times never got to that point due to the SALES girls personal assessment of his G/F's personal relationship with him.. Gathering info and making the actual policy are 2 entirely different things, the former being the SALES persons job and not the latter..

[cardholder]

Right! PRESENTING info to the professionals I.E. the finance company which the OP has stated numerous times never got to that point due to the SALES girls personal assessment of his G/F's personal relationship with him.. Gathering info and making the actual policy are 2 entirely different things, the former being the SALES persons job and not the latter..

WS - I think, in fairness to the girl, she may have garnered the financial info at the end. She was not given the opportunity once she advised the unacceptable delivery timescale.

[samran]

of course the sales person gathers info on where the money is coming from, especially when credit rating is low and monthly displayed income is insufficient as it seems in this case. Then present this info to finance company to consider

have done this on 8 cars in LOS so far

You really are quite dim. The income was quite sufficient to satisfy the requirements - as evidenced by the agreement with the Ford purchase. This is, of course, applying the same logic that a government employee earning 9k p.m. is deemed to be a suitable guarantor.

Were you or weren't you the ultimate payer? Not what was 'on paper'.

If you were, then you are a flight risk. Your '25 years' in the industry should tell you that non-residents are a higher flight risk - and justify more collateral. Just ask the finance companies who are dealing with the cars parked at Dubai airport when the GFC hit and they all nicked of home.

As for having a good credit rating, well whopsee do. Applicants with with high 'thin file' FICO scores enabled banks to rate mortgage backed credit default swaps as AAA, despite really being lower than poo in reality in terms of credit worthiness.

[cardholder]

Were you or weren't you the ultimate payer? Not what was 'on paper'.

If you were, then you are a flight risk. Your '25 years' in the industry should tell you that non-residents are a higher flight risk - and justify more collateral. Just ask the finance companies who are dealing with the cars parked at Dubai airport when the GFC hit and they all nicked of home.

As for having a good credit rating, well whopsee do. Applicants with with high 'thin file' FICO scores enabled banks to rate mortgage backed credit default swaps as AAA, despite really being lower than poo in reality in terms of credit worthiness.

I am not sure that bringing in the GFC adds value to this debate.

I agree than any move metal (or any other commodity) by having a loose credit policy will only come back and bite your arse.

I also think that a 25% deposit will protect all lenders in the Thai car market.

Flight risk ? Interesting that e.g. a Thai lady from an Isaan village who may not have had 2 ha'pennies to rub together before settling down with a Falang could walk into a car showroom, on her own, put 25% down and finance the remainder. Visibly add a Farang to that equation and the risk becomes higher ?? Please.........................................

[WarpSpeed]

Right! PRESENTING info to the professionals I.E. the finance company which the OP has stated numerous times never got to that point due to the SALES girls personal assessment of his G/F's personal relationship with him.. Gathering info and making the actual policy are 2 entirely different things, the former being the SALES persons job and not the latter..

WS - I think, in fairness to the girl, she may have garnered the financial info at the end. She was not given the opportunity once she advised the unacceptable delivery timescale.

You're moving the goal posts on me CH.. I'm only basing my impressions on what you posted...My post still stands according to that, she made an initial assessment and presented you with it and it was, by your impression discriminatory and as it turns out now, incorrect.

She should have sought out the proper info before she presented her proposal to you instead of ad libbing (or been properly trained) then the time table for deliver came into play once you were already aggravated further scuttling the deal after the fact in spite of a correction being made on the deposit amount yes? That's what I posted in response to..

Edited March 18, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[GarryP]

This is entertaining.

Please confirm whether my understanding is correct.

1.(Theory) If your girlfriend had gone alone and showed all her documents, such as bank deposits, salary/income, etc. she would have qualified to buy the vehicle with 25% deposit.

2.(Practice) Your girlfriend/wife went to the showroom and showed all her documents, such as bank deposits, salary/income, etc., which qualify her buy the car (See 1. above), but you were in tow, the deposit increases to 30 %.

3. The only difference between 1. and 2. is you. She has the same documents, income, etc. You increase the credit risk. That has no logic to it. You have suddenly become a liability.

I agree with you. What happened stinks of discrimination. The only thing I can think of is that your gf/wife is being labelled as something not very nice because you are a farang and being a you-know-what makes her a credit risk. Without you, she could be a hi-so but with you she is an oh-so-lo-so. You are bringing your gf/wife down.

[samran]

Right! PRESENTING info to the professionals I.E. the finance company which the OP has stated numerous times never got to that point due to the SALES girls personal assessment of his G/F's personal relationship with him.. Gathering info and making the actual policy are 2 entirely different things, the former being the SALES persons job and not the latter..

WS - I think, in fairness to the girl, she may have garnered the financial info at the end. She was not given the opportunity once she advised the unacceptable delivery timescale.

You're moving the goal posts on me CH.. I'm only basing my impressions on what you posted...My post still stands according to that, she made an initial assessment and presented you with it and it was, by your impression discriminatory and as it turns out now, incorrect.

She should have sought out the proper info before she presented her proposal to you instead of ad libbing (or been properly trained) then the time table for deliver came into play once you were already aggravated further scuttling the deal after the fact in spite of a correction being made on the deposit amount yes? That's what I posted in response to..

Geez, you mean you didn't pick this as a Thai-bash thread? You know 'poor bugger me, them's Thai's have it in for us poor farangs - look, this time, they don't even WANT your business".

Usually followed by cries of xenophobia.

[WarpSpeed]

Right! PRESENTING info to the professionals I.E. the finance company which the OP has stated numerous times never got to that point due to the SALES girls personal assessment of his G/F's personal relationship with him.. Gathering info and making the actual policy are 2 entirely different things, the former being the SALES persons job and not the latter..

WS - I think, in fairness to the girl, she may have garnered the financial info at the end. She was not given the opportunity once she advised the unacceptable delivery timescale.

You're moving the goal posts on me CH.. I'm only basing my impressions on what you posted...My post still stands according to that, she made an initial assessment and presented you with it and it was, by your impression discriminatory and as it turns out now, incorrect.

She should have sought out the proper info before she presented her proposal to you instead of ad libbing (or been properly trained) then the time table for deliver came into play once you were already aggravated further scuttling the deal after the fact in spite of a correction being made on the deposit amount yes? That's what I posted in response to..

Geez, you mean you didn't pick this as a Thai-bash thread? You know 'poor bugger me, them's Thai's have it in for us poor farangs - look, this time, they don't even WANT your business".

Usually followed by cries of xenophobia.

I've no idea what you've read into my posts but no I'm not Thai bashing, nor do I see anyone else doing so, but I do see a case of discrimination or at minimum poorly informed employees making assessments and decisions that go beyond their purview.

[saraburioz]

Why on earth buy a pick-up?

Is your girlfriend a farmer?

get her a proper car unless it's the usual scam- buy her the car and she dumps you and gives the pick-up to her rice-farming husband in Sakhon Nakhon.

[katabeachbum]

Were you or weren't you the ultimate payer? Not what was 'on paper'.

If you were, then you are a flight risk. Your '25 years' in the industry should tell you that non-residents are a higher flight risk - and justify more collateral. Just ask the finance companies who are dealing with the cars parked at Dubai airport when the GFC hit and they all nicked of home.

As for having a good credit rating, well whopsee do. Applicants with with high 'thin file' FICO scores enabled banks to rate mortgage backed credit default swaps as AAA, despite really being lower than poo in reality in terms of credit worthiness.

I am not sure that bringing in the GFC adds value to this debate.

I agree than any move metal (or any other commodity) by having a loose credit policy will only come back and bite your arse.

I also think that a 25% deposit will protect all lenders in the Thai car market.

Flight risk ? Interesting that e.g. a Thai lady from an Isaan village who may not have had 2 ha'pennies to rub together before settling down with a Falang could walk into a car showroom, on her own, put 25% down and finance the remainder. Visibly add a Farang to that equation and the risk becomes higher ?? Please.........................................

she can, but not a Toyota Vigo

good cash flow could work with a guearantor, or good credit rating, IOW previous financing and scheduled payments

to presently sell Ford Ranger, they accept any applicant with downpayment and guarantor. Go to any repos action and look at what is for sale. Lowering finance requirements come at a price

[katabeachbum]

This is entertaining.

Please confirm whether my understanding is correct.

1.(Theory) If your girlfriend had gone alone and showed all her documents, such as bank deposits, salary/income, etc. she would have qualified to buy the vehicle with 25% deposit.

2.(Practice) Your girlfriend/wife went to the showroom and showed all her documents, such as bank deposits, salary/income, etc., which qualify her buy the car (See 1. above), but you were in tow, the deposit increases to 30 %.

3. The only difference between 1. and 2. is you. She has the same documents, income, etc. You increase the credit risk. That has no logic to it. You have suddenly become a liability.

I agree with you. What happened stinks of discrimination. The only thing I can think of is that your gf/wife is being labelled as something not very nice because you are a farang and being a you-know-what makes her a credit risk. Without you, she could be a hi-so but with you she is an oh-so-lo-so. You are bringing your gf/wife down.

so when did #1 happen here

[GarryP]

^ I get you. As 1. never really happened, we cannot claim that it would have been the case.

Its Friday, I'm tired and going home.

[cardholder]

This is entertaining.

Please confirm whether my understanding is correct.

1.(Theory) If your girlfriend had gone alone and showed all her documents, such as bank deposits, salary/income, etc. she would have qualified to buy the vehicle with 25% deposit.

2.(Practice) Your girlfriend/wife went to the showroom and showed all her documents, such as bank deposits, salary/income, etc., which qualify her buy the car (See 1. above), but you were in tow, the deposit increases to 30 %.

3. The only difference between 1. and 2. is you. She has the same documents, income, etc. You increase the credit risk. That has no logic to it. You have suddenly become a liability.

I agree with you. What happened stinks of discrimination. The only thing I can think of is that your gf/wife is being labelled as something not very nice because you are a farang and being a you-know-what makes her a credit risk. Without you, she could be a hi-so but with you she is an oh-so-lo-so. You are bringing your gf/wife down.

so when did #1 happen here

#1 happens frequently !

Usually when the Falang boyfriend has banked the deposit in the G/F's account and gone back to his own country

[cardholder]

Why on earth buy a pick-up?

Is your girlfriend a farmer?

get her a proper car unless it's the usual scam- buy her the car and she dumps you and gives the pick-up to her rice-farming husband in Sakhon Nakhon.

We are buying a pick up because we need a pick up. DOH !!

We need it for business - otherwise I would have gone for a Fordtuner !

[cardholder]

This is entertaining.

Please confirm whether my understanding is correct.

1.(Theory) If your girlfriend had gone alone and showed all her documents, such as bank deposits, salary/income, etc. she would have qualified to buy the vehicle with 25% deposit.

2.(Practice) Your girlfriend/wife went to the showroom and showed all her documents, such as bank deposits, salary/income, etc., which qualify her buy the car (See 1. above), but you were in tow, the deposit increases to 30 %.

3. The only difference between 1. and 2. is you. She has the same documents, income, etc. You increase the credit risk. That has no logic to it. You have suddenly become a liability.

I agree with you. What happened stinks of discrimination. The only thing I can think of is that your gf/wife is being labelled as something not very nice because you are a farang and being a you-know-what makes her a credit risk. Without you, she could be a hi-so but with you she is an oh-so-lo-so. You are bringing your gf/wife down.

Garry P - you were right to go home - you are a cut above the rest of us on this thread

I have now realised that the last 55 years building a sound credit rating have been in vain - I am now in the position where I, yes I, can bring DOWN the credit rating of a daughter of Isaan !!

[WarpSpeed]

This is entertaining.

Please confirm whether my understanding is correct.

1.(Theory) If your girlfriend had gone alone and showed all her documents, such as bank deposits, salary/income, etc. she would have qualified to buy the vehicle with 25% deposit.

2.(Practice) Your girlfriend/wife went to the showroom and showed all her documents, such as bank deposits, salary/income, etc., which qualify her buy the car (See 1. above), but you were in tow, the deposit increases to 30 %.

3. The only difference between 1. and 2. is you. She has the same documents, income, etc. You increase the credit risk. That has no logic to it. You have suddenly become a liability.

I agree with you. What happened stinks of discrimination. The only thing I can think of is that your gf/wife is being labelled as something not very nice because you are a farang and being a you-know-what makes her a credit risk. Without you, she could be a hi-so but with you she is an oh-so-lo-so. You are bringing your gf/wife down.

Garry P - you were right to go home - you are a cut above the rest of us on this thread

I have now realised that the last 55 years building a sound credit rating have been in vain - I am now in the position where I, yes I, can bring DOWN the credit rating of a daughter of Isaan !!

Well done! We all have to have goals in our lifetime ...

[ESB7]

Why on earth buy a pick-up?

Is your girlfriend a farmer?

get her a proper car unless it's the usual scam- buy her the car and she dumps you and gives the pick-up to her rice-farming husband in Sakhon Nakhon.

We are buying a pick up because we need a pick up. DOH !!

We need it for business - otherwise I would have gone for a Fordtuner !

Really, so why buy one of the cheapest pick ups at 650,000 and not a decent one at 870,000

[ESB7]

For every one foreigner living here with a decent source of income, there is 1000 that are skint, and the Thais know that.....Buying a 'car is doing business and there are appropriate ways....I sat at the Isuzi showroom for over 4 hours negotiating a deal....part exchange/leather etc....at no point did I say 'stick it up your arse' because they said no first time...you sit and talk.......your loss as you didnt get the car you wanted and theToyota dealership will not miss the small amount they make as tomorrow they will probably sell 5 or 6, and to people that have the cash and dont need to go begging for a few hundred grand on tick.

[cardholder]

I got th

For every one foreigner living here with a decent source of income, there is 1000 that are skint, and the Thais know that.....Buying a 'car is doing business and there are appropriate ways....I sat at the Isuzi showroom for over 4 hours negotiating a deal....part exchange/leather etc....at no point did I say 'stick it up your arse' because they said no first time...you sit and talk.......your loss as you didnt get the car you wanted and theToyota dealership will not miss the small amount they make as tomorrow they will probably sell 5 or 6, and to people that have the cash and dont need to go begging for a few hundred grand on tick.

I got the car I wanted - now <deleted> off !

I have no loss, I made the choice of what to buy.. Toyota lost and they will realise that .

Why buy for 850,000 - this is not a bigger dick competition it is about buying what you need.

I could have bought for cash a Toyota 4 door top of the range. I didn't need that so I bought what what was considered to be fit for the purpose.

[janverbeem]

For every one foreigner living here with a decent source of income, there is 1000 that are skint, and the Thais know that.....Buying a 'car is doing business and there are appropriate ways....I sat at the Isuzi showroom for over 4 hours negotiating a deal....part exchange/leather etc....at no point did I say 'stick it up your arse' because they said no first time...you sit and talk.......your loss as you didnt get the car you wanted and theToyota dealership will not miss the small amount they make as tomorrow they will probably sell 5 or 6, and to people that have the cash and dont need to go begging for a few hundred grand on tick.

I'm not so sure about the correctness of your words about how less the toyota dealer cares.If the dealer reacts like this every time a buyer enters his showroom then he will not sell any cars.

Secondly,they love if the buyer gets the car financed because that is the way they make their money as the dealer receives a one time commission on every car he finances and it's much more than the actual profit on the sale.

[saraburioz]

Was the show room in Pattaya?

Don't take offense but what would you think of a woman from Buriram in Pattaya with a farang i.e what type of employment is she likely to have.

Maybe the toyota dealer can see something you can't does she have a tattoo?

Edited March 18, 2011 by saraburioz

[LeCharivari]

......... At the end of the day it was a major loss for Toyota, an win for Ford and an even bigger win for cardholder with a 10% deposit and interest free finance.

Hardly a "major" loss! That's just about as far-fetched as the idea that CH got the car he wanted (he clearly didn't, otherwise he would have bought the Ford in the first place), and the idea that "a Thai lady from an Isaan village who may not have had 2 ha'pennies to rub together before settling down with a Falang could walk into a car showroom, on her own, put 25% down and finance the remainder" in a Toyota dealership - they can't, as Toyota aren't that desperate even though Ford apparently may be. She didn't meet Toyota's credit requirements because CH was paying for it, its as simple as that.

Its no more "racist" than it would be racist in any country when you compare the credit risk between residents and non-residents.

[prakhonchai nick]

I believe Cardholder set out on the day in question, not in Pattaya,(but a small Isaan town) with his lady, who does not sport a tattoo, with a view to ordering a pick-up

He had previously narrowed the choice down to either a Toyota or a Ford, and with the free finance and 10% down payment on offer from Ford, he was seriously considering the Ford, as it would show a substantial net saving, more than outweighing any benefits from buying a Toyota.

He therefore decided to visit the Toyota showroom first with his lady, to see whether they might be able to eke out any additional benefits, extras etc which would sway him towards a Toyota. As we all now know, instead of Toyota trying to woo the couple to buy a Toyota, they totally messed up, by not only requiring a larger down payment than had previously been indicated by a different Toyota showroom, but by advising the fact in a discriminatory way. (It's 30% down because you have a farang boyfriend!)

Having, in my mind, quite correctly told them what they could do with their vehicle, (I wonder how that would be said in Thai!), they went to the Ford showroom, where the previous offer of 10% down and 0% finance still stood. (And they were given a cup of coffee too!) It's often the little things that count!

So at the end of the day, Cardholder placed an order for the Ford, his initial first choice. He has what he wants, his lady is happy, Toyota, having been advised of their cock-up are not, and the Toyota sales lady may be looking for a new job next week.

QED

[ESB7]

I got th

For every one foreigner living here with a decent source of income, there is 1000 that are skint, and the Thais know that.....Buying a 'car is doing business and there are appropriate ways....I sat at the Isuzi showroom for over 4 hours negotiating a deal....part exchange/leather etc....at no point did I say 'stick it up your arse' because they said no first time...you sit and talk.......your loss as you didnt get the car you wanted and theToyota dealership will not miss the small amount they make as tomorrow they will probably sell 5 or 6, and to people that have the cash and dont need to go begging for a few hundred grand on tick.

I got the car I wanted - now <deleted> off !

I have no loss, I made the choice of what to buy.. Toyota lost and they will realise that .

Why buy for 850,000 - this is not a bigger dick competition it is about buying what you need.

I could have bought for cash a Toyota 4 door top of the range. I didn't need that so I bought what what was considered to be fit for the purpose.

Bigger dick contest and 'wanted a Fortuna' :lol: ......could buy for cash at 850,000???...........but still only wanted to pay 20% depost on a car at 650,000 and the rest on HP...dosnt really make sense...'loadsa money!!!'

[prakhonchai nick]

Some people have money because they take care of it. Why buy a bigger vehicle than you need? For show? That is the Thai way!

If the interest rate being paid on car finance is less than the interest you could receive from investing your money it makes sense to have as much finance as possible.'

If Ford are offering zero % finance with 10% down, the interest that you could receive from investing the balance of 90% (rather than paying cash), could significantly reduce the vehicle cost in the long run.

Make your money work for you. Worth thinking about!

[WarpSpeed]

Nick I think I recall you mentioning to CH a while back that he would never be able to get them to understand, so maybe some friendly advice here in your case as well.

Edited March 19, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[cardholder]

Nick I think I recall you mentioning to CH a while back that he would never be able to get them to understand, so maybe some friendly advice here in your case as well.

Sound advice WS .

I still think it worth the effort of banging your head against that brickwall - it may be the best/only way to encourage change for the better.

Anyway, I always wanted to start a thread that attracted 150 posts, so I will sign off with a quick apology for the misleading sub-heading of "against Farangs". This has been about discrimination against Thais.

Thank you for all the comments. I await delivery of the Ford next week with some excitement.