Pheu Thai Takes Shots At Army's Airship

[webfact]

CENSURE DEBATE

Pheu Thai takes shots at Army's airship

By Kornchanok Raksaseri

The Nation

The opposition yesterday ridiculed the Army's "spy blimp" assigned to cover the restive South, saying it cost the country a bundle but could not even fly at first, takes fuzzy pictures and now is a sitting duck for snipers.

The military allocated Bt340 million to buy the aircraft for manned aerial missions to survey and take images of the southern border provinces.

The airship has had a lot of problems and was unable to operate in such a sensitive area in the deep South where violence has claimed more than 4,400 lives since 2004, the opposition said.

The procurement of the airship was also riddled with irregularities, Pheu Thai MP Somchai Petprasert said during the censure debate.

The military sent only three technicians and nine observers to inspect the airship for a short period before making the decision to pay as much as 70 per cent of its price to the manufacturer, he said.

The airship could not even fly when it was handed over to the military, as it leaked, he said. It was sent back to the United States for repairs but now it can fly only at 3,000 feet, rather than 10,000ft as the military had wanted.

"The 3,000ft ceiling might be high enough to survive a small arm attack but have you ever thought about a sniper rifle which could hit the target from far away?" Somchai said.

Suthep Thaugsuban, the deputy prime minister overseeing security affairs, said the airship was acquired according to proper procedures. Nothing was wrong.

"Of course, it couldn't fly at the beginning but it could fly after repairs and 3,000ft is high enough for operations," he said.

Somchai said the camera installed on the airship was almost worthless as it could not take high-resolution pictures at its cruising altitude.

"From the height of 3000ft, it can't see any car's licence plate clearly. May I ask how can the military's operations rely on this quality?" he said.

Suthep argued that no matter what the resolution was, high or low, the camera worked.

Somchai also criticised the procurement of 1,474 military trucks, saying that their quality was not better than ordinary trucks on the road.

By requirement, the military wanted imported military trucks for military purposes but the government imported only the chassis and bodies to assemble them in Thailand. The price tag of Bt3.3 million was not supposed to be for imported military vehicles, he said.

Somchai also showed pictures of the truck during the debate to prove that the trucks were too vulnerable to be a military vehicle.

Suthep said the decision for the truck project was made by the previous government and the trucks unfortunately were delivered to the military during his government.

Basically the trucks are acceptable since they would be used only in normal conditions, not for combat in the deep jungle, he said.

The opposition also accused Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva of leaving security matters in the deep South only to the military. The prime minister should look into the details of equipment procurements to see they fit operational requirements, they said.

Abhisit said he has never ignored the procurement of military equipment. If the government found any of them could not work properly or was procured irregularly, it would be scrapped, he said.

The government rejected the GT200 bomb detectors shortly after they were scientifically proven to be unworkable, he said.

The Abhisit government ordered scientific testing of the bomb detectors last year after foreign media reported that the GT200 does not work any better than a dowsing rod.

-- The Nation 2011-03-18

[tomyummer]

Someone should come up with a Beetle Bailey type comic strip for this Thai government bantering. Fricken' funny.

[asiawatcher]

"...Somchai also showed pictures of the truck during the debate to prove that the trucks were too vulnerable to be a military vehicle..."

"...The price tag of Bt3.3 million was not supposed to be for imported military vehicles, he said..."

"... Suthep said the decision for the truck project was made by the previous government and the trucks unfortunately were delivered to the military during his government..."

If anyone cares to check the cost of these rucks there is at least 300,000+ Baht per truck 'loading'. And they were ordered by the Thaksin's Govt - surprise, surprise... PTP keep opening their mouths to change feet!

What else is new? - the opposition parties are just grasping at straws for any damage they think they can do to the present Government - none of the opposition have any track record other than theft and corruption (sure there is also corruption in the present Govt) and now the elections are due they are just mud slinging mobs with no policies or idea of corporate governance, just looking to get in to power to steal more money from the over taxed Thai's. Wake up Thailand!

[bangon04]

"Somchai said the camera installed on the airship was almost worthless as it could not take high-resolution pictures at its cruising altitude.

"From the height of 3000ft, it can't see any car's licence plate clearly. May I ask how can the military's operations rely on this quality?" he said.

Suthep argued that no matter what the resolution was, high or low, the camera worked."

but at its original specified operating height of 10000 feet, what exactly was it supposed to be taking photos of ????

[Oberkommando]

Suthep argued that no matter what the resolution was, high or low, the camera worked."

Let's be honest, the military have wasted billions since the coup.

But if you back the right horse you are entitled to collect your winnings.

[zzaa09]

Suthep argued that no matter what the resolution was, high or low, the camera worked."

Let's be honest, the military have wasted billions since the coup.

But if you back the right horse you are entitled to collect your winnings.

Yet, jockeys are most important in a decent thoroughbred, are they not?

[MaiChai]

Tbis airship was planned/purchased before the Abhisit government came into power? Certainly it has benn talked about for a long time now.

Pua Thai are pulling up the governmnt on really small minor things. To be considered a serious contendor in the elections they need to have some real policies to attract the electorate. Just bitching about the current government does not convince me or voters who can think for themselves that they are a better alternative.

[TAWP]

US will use blimps.

http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.html?d=194252

http://gizmodo.com/#!5366082/250+foot-long-hybrid-airship-will-spy-over-afghanistan-battlefields-in-2011

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Rise-of-the-Blimps-The-US-Armys-LEMV-06438/

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3Af2996a4f-f738-4cb2-8157-afba2eb5ca28

[jayboy]

US will use blimps.

http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.html?d=194252

http://gizmodo.com/#!5366082/250+foot-long-hybrid-airship-will-spy-over-afghanistan-battlefields-in-2011

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Rise-of-the-Blimps-The-US-Armys-LEMV-06438/

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3Af2996a4f-f738-4cb2-8157-afba2eb5ca28

What's your point with these irrelevant links?

We are talking about the Thai army with its known corruption in procurement.

Equally to the point the purchase of this airship was an example of extreme stupidity.It cannot do its job in the South.

Of course the army will never apologise = remember the GT 200,

[Oberkommando]

Of course the army will never apologise = remember the GT 200,

More importantly they will never be held accountable and thus the spiral of corruption and interference in politics to feather their own nests will continue.

The tail wags the dog.

[TAWP]

US will use blimps.

http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.html?d=194252

http://gizmodo.com/#!5366082/250+foot-long-hybrid-airship-will-spy-over-afghanistan-battlefields-in-2011

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Rise-of-the-Blimps-The-US-Armys-LEMV-06438/

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3A27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3Af2996a4f-f738-4cb2-8157-afba2eb5ca28

What's your point with these irrelevant links?

We are talking about the Thai army with its known corruption in procurement.

Equally to the point the purchase of this airship was an example of extreme stupidity.It cannot do its job in the South.

Of course the army will never apologise = remember the GT 200,

The point, that you so often fail to understand, is that a blimp *does* have operational usage and isn't a silly idea just based on the idea of it being a blimp. Nor is it an airship that is 'easily shoot down by any AK wielding person' that some would like to assert.

What determines the success of the blimp in the south will be how it is used, not the fact that it is a blimp.

And no, the thread isn't about the military's 'known corruption' per se, the OP clearly mentions several paragraphs of criticism as to 'why' the airship would be a bad choice. As if the opposition knew this for a fact. Which I doubt they do.

[jayboy]

The point, that you so often fail to understand, is that a blimp *does* have operational usage and isn't a silly idea just based on the idea of it being a blimp. Nor is it an airship that is 'easily shoot down by any AK wielding person' that some would like to assert.

What determines the success of the blimp in the south will be how it is used, not the fact that it is a blimp.

And no, the thread isn't about the military's 'known corruption' per se, the OP clearly mentions several paragraphs of criticism as to 'why' the airship would be a bad choice. As if the opposition knew this for a fact. Which I doubt they do.

I don't think I have ever commented before on the Thai army blimp so difficult to see how I have so often failed to understand.

The problem is not the usefulness of blimps, nor has anyone to my knowledge said the idea of the blimp is silly in itself.

In a competent and non-corrupt army with honest procurement procedures it could well make sense.

The Thai army purchased the blimp for use in the South, and its failure there is well documented.

[TAWP]

The point, that you so often fail to understand, is that a blimp *does* have operational usage and isn't a silly idea just based on the idea of it being a blimp. Nor is it an airship that is 'easily shoot down by any AK wielding person' that some would like to assert.

What determines the success of the blimp in the south will be how it is used, not the fact that it is a blimp.

And no, the thread isn't about the military's 'known corruption' per se, the OP clearly mentions several paragraphs of criticism as to 'why' the airship would be a bad choice. As if the opposition knew this for a fact. Which I doubt they do.

I don't think I have ever commented before on the Thai army blimp so difficult to see how I have so often failed to understand.

You failed to understand that my post was in reply to the OP and the criticism during the censure debate.

The problem is not the usefulness of blimps, nor has anyone to my knowledge said the idea of the blimp is silly in itself.

Read past threads or the OP.

In a competent and non-corrupt army with honest procurement procedures it could well make sense.

The Thai army purchased the blimp for use in the South, and its failure there is well documented.

No, it isn't well [publicly] documented. (Which one could argue us part of the problem.)

[animatic]

Interesting to think some here actually make it seem like

corruption in army procurement would

go down if PTP came to power...HA!

It only means different politicians will try to take a cut, if they can.

If not the generals will go on as before.

No matter what party or clique is in power keeping the army calm is part of their brief and game plan.

It's not like there is a choice in the matter.

Edited March 19, 2011 by animatic

[jayboy]

Interesting to think some here actually make it seem like

corruption in army procurement would

go down if PTP came to power...HA!

It only means different politicians will try to take a cut, if they can.

If not the generals will go on as before.

No matter what party or clique is in power keeping the army calm is part of their brief and game plan.

It's not like there is a choice in the matter.

You're dreaming on this one.Nobody has suggested that army corruption would end whichever parties held power.

The army needs to be cut down to size - no more corruption, no more media or other external business interests, no more refuge in lies and fantasy about its main mission (point being to fob off any criticism of its widespread abuses), no more absurdly high number of generals, more accountability, no more cover up of its criminality, no more delays and stalling on investigations into its involvement in civilian deaths.Most importantly civilian oversight by the government of the day (okay I had to swallow hard at that last one but that's the long term aim, involving cleaning up politics as well I agree).

Where I agree with you is that none of this is going to happen any time soon.Can be done though - look at Indonesia.

There's a fatuous idea prevailing among some that the army in Thailand is somehow in less need of radical reform than the police.That's not the case.

[Bagwan]

Everybody that follows golf in the US has seen the Met Life blimps which hover over golf tournaments and they seems to work perfectly well. 340 million baht comes out at about 11 million US. Add in the running costs, multiply by 2 (there are two blimps I think) and that is what it costs Met Life? That is a hefty chunk out of an advertising budget. I wonder how accurate the Army's costing was.

[bangon04]

The point, that you so often fail to understand, is that a blimp *does* have operational usage and isn't a silly idea just based on the idea of it being a blimp. Nor is it an airship that is 'easily shoot down by any AK wielding person' that some would like to assert.

What determines the success of the blimp in the south will be how it is used, not the fact that it is a blimp.

And no, the thread isn't about the military's 'known corruption' per se, the OP clearly mentions several paragraphs of criticism as to 'why' the airship would be a bad choice. As if the opposition knew this for a fact. Which I doubt they do.

How will it be used? Surely a blimp without a working camera is just a silly idea, same as an aircraft carrier without aircraft is a silly idea. If the procurement of the blimp specified an operating ceiling of 10000 feet, then the camera would have to be specified to take usable intelligence photos from 10000 feet. Or are they expecting to use binoculars?. And the reported fact that the camera doesn't even work properly at 3000 feet, which is well within range of some of the weapons which the Royal Thai Army could be persuaded to "lose" for the right money, makes it useless and dangerous in the south.

[animatic]

Interesting to think some here actually make it seem like

corruption in army procurement would

go down if PTP came to power...HA!

It only means different politicians will try to take a cut, if they can.

If not the generals will go on as before.

No matter what party or clique is in power keeping the army calm is part of their brief and game plan.

It's not like there is a choice in the matter.

You're dreaming on this one.Nobody has suggested that army corruption would end whichever parties held power.

The army needs to be cut down to size - no more corruption, no more media or other external business interests, no more refuge in lies and fantasy about its main mission (point being to fob off any criticism of its widespread abuses), no more absurdly high number of generals, more accountability, no more cover up of its criminality, no more delays and stalling on investigations into its involvement in civilian deaths.Most importantly civilian oversight by the government of the day (okay I had to swallow hard at that last one but that's the long term aim, involving cleaning up politics as well I agree).

Where I agree with you is that none of this is going to happen any time soon.Can be done though - look at Indonesia.

There's a fatuous idea prevailing among some that the army in Thailand is somehow in less need of radical reform than the police.That's not the case.

What is in need of radicle reform is the civilian systems intended to control the army.

They flat out can't control themselves and there is no chance to assert control over the army, if the politicians are loose cannons of an even worse nature.

Each time there is a civillian cock-up someone decides a whole new constitution is needed, rather than amend the problems with the existing one, then in short order politicians, weasels and power brokers find the new loopholes and exploit them. Until this endless cycle of greed drivin, old school, kow tow style graft mongering in the political domain is brought under REAL control, there is no chance civilian control of the army and police can ever happen.

Which leaves us with the rare likes of Abhisit and Chuan or even Purachai, trying to reduce it raise standards and lower graft, while working within the system as it is, real politic, to gradually improve things. Rome wasn't built in a day, nor did it collapse in a day either. Entrenched habits of society and mindsets don't change quickly, but they do change over time in fits and starts. Those that attempt radicale changes quickly usually lose, and/ or cause many unforeseen cascading problems.

Back to the blimp.

By all reports I have read the blimp itself functions perfectly within design limits... WHEN IT IS PROPERLY LOADED.

There's the rub, assorted competing generalisimos, all asked for their own payloads and insisted, or were not told that all can't go up together. Or no one can agree on a payload rotation order, since no face can be lost, yada yada yada, so no one backs down and underlings can never tell the generals to back off.

Stalemate... the thing is just overloaded, nothing deeper than that.

It's pretty sad.

If a basic payload package were sent up every 3-4 days, and others rotated through, within design spec'd weight this white elephant would be doing it's mulitple jobs.

Edited March 19, 2011 by animatic

[TAWP]

How will it be used? Surely a blimp without a working camera is just a silly idea, same as an aircraft carrier without aircraft is a silly idea. If the procurement of the blimp specified an operating ceiling of 10000 feet, then the camera would have to be specified to take usable intelligence photos from 10000 feet. Or are they expecting to use binoculars?. And the reported fact that the camera doesn't even work properly at 3000 feet, which is well within range of some of the weapons which the Royal Thai Army could be persuaded to "lose" for the right money, makes it useless and dangerous in the south.

That the camera doesn't work is most likely hyperbole, as expected from a censure debate.

[Bagwan]

How will it be used? Surely a blimp without a working camera is just a silly idea, same as an aircraft carrier without aircraft is a silly idea.

Please remember where you are. This is Thailand. Of course they are good ideas - there are profits to be made.

[ratcatcher]

Suthep argued that no matter what the resolution was, high or low, the camera worked."

Let's be honest, the military have wasted billions since the coup.

But if you back the right horse you are entitled to collect your winnings.

Of course, they didn't waste billions BEFORE the coup did they?

Military expenditures usually involve vast amounts of wasted money regardless of the nation in question.

As an afterthought, if PTP shooting skills are anything like their censure debate skills, I doubt they could hit it from 10 meters away.

Edited March 20, 2011 by ratcatcher

[tig28]

Interesting to think some here actually make it seem like

corruption in army procurement would

go down if PTP came to power...HA!

It only means different politicians will try to take a cut, if they can.

If not the generals will go on as before.

No matter what party or clique is in power keeping the army calm is part of their brief and game plan.

It's not like there is a choice in the matter.

Hi animatic

Unfortunately the biggest winners from the political chaos of the last three years has been the Thai military.

The most telling evidence of the military's success is the national budget. Over post coup budgets defense spending has soared from Bt85 billion in 2006 to Bt167 billion in 2009. Internal security spending also increased from Bt77 billion to Bt114 billion over the same period. Nothing else in the budget has grown at anything like this rate.

Sadly you are right -- "It's not like there is a choice in the matter."