Steely Dan Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 The last paragragh is the key. Stop stealing Arab land. Withdraw to the pre 1967 war borders and then we can see from there. If Hamas then continues hostilities then I and I am sure many more will start to agree with Israeli policy. And before you say it. We will never know if we never do just that. There has to be give and take on both sides. The thing is that Israel is the one that stands to have to give/lose the most by this so they want nothing to do with it. And nobody can deny it because they have been the ones gaining the most since the beginning of those hostilities in 1967. But Israel retreated from Lebannon and were repaid with thousands of rockets, they retreated from Gaza unilaterally which met with the same reaction. The pre 67 borders are just a negotiating point in a gradualist stance to eliminate Israel completely, read it in the charter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 The last paragragh is the key. Stop stealing Arab land. Withdraw to the pre 1967 war borders and then we can see from there. If Hamas then continues hostilities then I and I am sure many more will start to agree with Israeli policy. And before you say it. We will never know if we never do just that. There has to be give and take on both sides. The thing is that Israel is the one that stands to have to give/lose the most by this so they want nothing to do with it. And nobody can deny it because they have been the ones gaining the most since the beginning of those hostilities in 1967. But Israel retreated from Lebannon and were repaid with thousands of rockets, they retreated from Gaza unilaterally which met with the same reaction. The pre 67 borders are just a negotiating point in a gradualist stance to eliminate Israel completely, read it in the charter. Like I said. We will never ,never know if we don't try. Then if it does continue on this path the Israelis will have a legitimate mandate to suppress thier hostile actions. And I for one will stand up for that mandate and openly support Israel. And I am sure a mojority of Palestinian supporters will do likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) Like I said. We will never ,never know if we don't try. Then if it does continue on this path the Israelis will have a legitimate mandate to suppress thier hostile actions. And I for one will stand up for that mandate and openly support Israel. And I am sure a mojority of Palestinian supporters will do likewise. It needs two to tango. Recognition of Israel's right to exist is a pre-requisite to any negotiations with a body including Hamas. Edited March 19, 2011 by Steely Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Like I said. We will never ,never know if we don't try. Then if it does continue on this path the Israelis will have a legitimate mandate to suppress thier hostile actions. And I for one will stand up for that mandate and openly support Israel. And I am sure a mojority of Palestinian supporters will do likewise. It needs two to tango. Recognition of Israel's right to exist is a pre-requisite to any negotiations with a body including Hamas. Just like it is a pre-requisite for the Palestinians that the Israelis stop encrouching and building new settlements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Like I said. We will never ,never know if we don't try. Then if it does continue on this path the Israelis will have a legitimate mandate to suppress thier hostile actions. And I for one will stand up for that mandate and openly support Israel. And I am sure a mojority of Palestinian supporters will do likewise. It needs two to tango. Recognition of Israel's right to exist is a pre-requisite to any negotiations with a body including Hamas. Israel has also something to recognize. I agree with your favorite sound bites provider here. Christopher Hitchens on Israel and Zionism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQxhyy9Wpb4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Some twisted posts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Some twisted posts here. A proven racist. Comic in US 'hate speech' row Condell branded racist A British stand-up has been accused of spreading ‘racist hate speech’ in California. Pat Condell has faced a barrage of criticism after links to his anti-Muslim monologue on YouTube were circulated to commissioners in the city of Berkeley. In the five-minute video, Condell condemns Islam as a religion of war and its prophet Mohammad as ‘some rambling ancient desert nomad with a psychological disorder’. He attacks fundamentalist men as ‘primitive pigs whose only achievement in life is to be born with a penis is one hand and a Koran in the second’ and accuses women who wear veils of their own will of being ‘mentally ill’. ‘If God had intended for you to cover your face then in His wisdom He would have provided you with a flap of skin for the purpose,’ he said. Jonathan Wornick, who is on the ‘peace and justice commission’ adivisng Berkeley city council emailed his colleagues with the link, saying it was ‘an honest attempt to bring dialogue’. But his actions have caused a political storm. Commissioner Michael Sherman said Condell’s views were ‘stunning’ because of his ‘stereotyping and bigotry of the tone and the language’. And commissioner Elliot Cohen called the tape ‘insulting, degenerating and racist’. ‘People should not be allowed to spew racist propaganda without others being able to respond,’ Cohen said. ‘It’s not about free speech - it’s hate speech.’ ... http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2007/05/17/5335/comic_in_us_hate_speech_row Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) The place with more deluded left-wing wackos than San Francisco is Bizerkely. They probably think Obama is a "racist".Just watch the video to see why these hypocrites are making up lies about him. <BR> Edited March 19, 2011 by Ulysses G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I always assumed most of our liberal friends were from Berkley. They would fit right in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 ^^ hate speech Islamophobia is the fear and/or hatred of Islam, Muslims or Islamic culture. aka 'anti-Islamic racism' - it combines the elements of dislike of a religion and active discrimination against the people belonging to that religion." The discrimination is racist because it is based on the belief that no matter what such a person does s/he will never be an acceptable to or in the West. The Runnymede Trust has identified eight components that they say define Islamophobia. This definition, from the 1997 document 'Islamophobia: A Challenge For Us All' is widely accepted, including by the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia. The eight components are: 1) Islam is seen as a monolithic bloc, static and unresponsive to change. 2) Islam is seen as separate and 'other'. It does not have values in common with other cultures, is not affected by them and does not influence them. 3) Islam is seen as inferior to the West. It is seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive and sexist. 4) Islam is seen as violent, aggressive, threatening, supportive of terrorism and engaged in a 'clash of civilisations'. 5) Islam is seen as a political ideology and is used for political or military advantage. 6) Criticisms made of the West by Islam are rejected out of hand. 7) Hostility towards Islam is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society. 8) Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural or normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) This Jewish American writer has a point. Neither side really can be relied on to create a plan that will really bring peace to the region. I think his idea of Obama pushing it aggressively has a better chance than the games going on now in the UN. http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/03/21/110321taco_talk_remnick The importance of an Obama plan is not that Netanyahu accept it right away; the Palestinian leadership, which is weak and suffers from its own issues of legitimacy, might not embrace it immediately, either, particularly the limits on refugees. Rather, it is important as a way for the United States to assert that it stands not with the supporters of Greater Israel but with what the writer Bernard Avishai calls “Global Israel,” the constituencies that accept the moral necessity of a Palestinian state and understand the dire cost of Israeli isolation. Even as Obama continues to stress his commitment to Israeli security, he has to emphasize the truth that, without serious progress toward an agreement, matters will likely deteriorate, perhaps to the point, yet again, of violence. Edited March 19, 2011 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 The place with more deluded left-wing wackos than San Francisco is Bizerkely. They probably think Obama is a "racist".Just watch the video to see why these hypocrites are making up lies about him. <BR> A little left wing for my tastes. If Islam is singled out here then I would venture a similar speech could have been made about Christianity at the time of the crusades or Spanish inquisition. Islam is in my oppinion going through it's own dark ages and as with the crusades this manifests itself first in a contempt for and a refusal to coexist with any other faith, it recognises no Country with Islam being the only recognised group, which explains the demands to introduce Sharia law wherever Muslims set foot. This does not mean such fundamentalists represent the majority of Muslims, indeed in the west there is a silent majority co-existing peacefully, the trouble is they are cowed and intimidated by the fanatics. It was not always so, indeed Judaism and Islam coexisted for the most part peacefully for centuries, but it would be folly to deny that Islam does have a fundamental problem at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 The last paragragh is the key. Stop stealing Arab land. Withdraw to the pre 1967 war borders and then we can see from there. If Hamas then continues hostilities then I and I am sure many more will start to agree with Israeli policy. And before you say it. We will never know if we never do just that. There has to be give and take on both sides. The thing is that Israel is the one that stands to have to give/lose the most by this so they want nothing to do with it. And nobody can deny it because they have been the ones gaining the most since the beginning of those hostilities in 1967. But Israel retreated from Lebannon and were repaid with thousands of rockets, they retreated from Gaza unilaterally which met with the same reaction. The pre 67 borders are just a negotiating point in a gradualist stance to eliminate Israel completely, read it in the charter. Like I said. We will never ,never know if we don't try. Then if it does continue on this path the Israelis will have a legitimate mandate to suppress thier hostile actions. And I for one will stand up for that mandate and openly support Israel. And I am sure a mojority of Palestinian supporters will do likewise. Facts of history when the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon they got Hizbullah and 40,000 rockets and when they pulled out of Gaza they got Hamas and 20,000 rockets. Are you trying to say third time lucky? Hostile actions??? from which side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Neither side trusts each other and both sides have perfectly good reasons not to trust each other. So now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 ‘If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel’ – Benjamin Netanyahu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 The last paragragh is the key. Stop stealing Arab land. Withdraw to the pre 1967 war borders and then we can see from there. If Hamas then continues hostilities then I and I am sure many more will start to agree with Israeli policy. And before you say it. We will never know if we never do just that. There has to be give and take on both sides. The thing is that Israel is the one that stands to have to give/lose the most by this so they want nothing to do with it. And nobody can deny it because they have been the ones gaining the most since the beginning of those hostilities in 1967. But Israel retreated from Lebannon and were repaid with thousands of rockets, they retreated from Gaza unilaterally which met with the same reaction. The pre 67 borders are just a negotiating point in a gradualist stance to eliminate Israel completely, read it in the charter. Like I said. We will never ,never know if we don't try. Then if it does continue on this path the Israelis will have a legitimate mandate to suppress thier hostile actions. And I for one will stand up for that mandate and openly support Israel. And I am sure a mojority of Palestinian supporters will do likewise. Facts of history when the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon they got Hizbullah and 40,000 rockets and when they pulled out of Gaza they got Hamas and 20,000 rockets. Are you trying to say third time lucky? Hostile actions??? from which side? Obsessive compulsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 This Jewish American writer has a point. Neither side really can be relied on to create a plan that will really bring peace to the region. I think his idea of Obama pushing it aggressively has a better chance than the games going on now in the UN. http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/03/21/110321taco_talk_remnick If the claim by Ulysses G. is valid Russia has no room to talk about other countries. because of "Chechnya" then Obama or the USA has no room to talk about other countries. The topic isn't about Islam religion or Jewish left wing intellectuals from Brzinskely nor a podium for hate speech. Its about Israel, Abbas and his talks with the Hamas and that he and Netanyahu flying to Moscow, that is in Russia, for some talks. So please don't try to drag all the time the USA or Obama to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) I don't agree with you, because I don't think anyone here seriously believes that talks between Netanyahu and whatever Palestinian coalition they might but probably won't cobble together, will ever come to anything. Also, pressure from Russia means very little to Israel. Pressure from the USA means very much. Edited March 19, 2011 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I don't agree with you, because I don't think anyone here seriously believes that talks between Netanyahu and whatever Palestinian coalition they might but probably won't cobble together, will ever come to anything. Also, pressure from Russia means very little to Israel. Pressure from the USA means very much. It is this exact attitude that is one of the root causes of this epic drama. "If you don't want to be part of the solution then stop being part of the problem" Bruce Willis. Die Hard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Also, pressure from Russia means very little to Israel. Pressure from the USA means very much. Pressure from the US in regards to the 51st State = lip service from yet another puppet bought & paid for by lobbyist from said 51st State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Facts of history when the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon they got Hizbullah and 40,000 rockets and when they pulled out of Gaza they got Hamas and 20,000 rockets. Are you trying to say third time lucky? Hostile actions??? from which side? 40,000 and 20,000? Not 40,002 and 19,998 maybe be or 39,971 and 20,004? What did they to the locals that they send them so many rockets? Where they came from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuffki Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Facts of history when the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon they got Hizbullah and 40,000 rockets and when they pulled out of Gaza they got Hamas and 20,000 rockets. Are you trying to say third time lucky? Hostile actions??? from which side? 40,000 and 20,000? Not 40,002 and 19,998 maybe be or 39,971 and 20,004? What did they to the locals that they send them so many rockets? Where they came from? sorry?who is they? the locals or the rockets? Please translate this sentence "What did they to the locals that they send them so many rockets" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Facts of history when the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon they got Hizbullah and 40,000 rockets and when they pulled out of Gaza they got Hamas and 20,000 rockets. Are you trying to say third time lucky? Hostile actions??? from which side? 40,000 and 20,000? Not 40,002 and 19,998 maybe be or 39,971 and 20,004? What did they to the locals that they send them so many rockets? Where they came from? Actually they came from Iran and Syria possibly having been manufactured in Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Facts of history when the Israelis pulled out of Lebanon they got Hizbullah and 40,000 rockets and when they pulled out of Gaza they got Hamas and 20,000 rockets. Are you trying to say third time lucky? Hostile actions??? from which side? 40,000 and 20,000? Not 40,002 and 19,998 maybe be or 39,971 and 20,004? What did they to the locals that they send them so many rockets? Where they came from? Actually they came from Iran and Syria possibly having been manufactured in Russia. Two more countries that hold Israel in high regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renbe Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I don't agree with you, because I don't think anyone here seriously believes that talks between Netanyahu and whatever Palestinian coalition they might but probably won't cobble together, will ever come to anything. Also, pressure from Russia means very little to Israel. Pressure from the USA means very much. Weapon deliveries from Russia to Syria, Iran and Lebanon seem to matter very much though. Every time Russia makes a sale, Israel is up in arms.... so I guess there is some leverage here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokeddy Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I don't agree with you, because I don't think anyone here seriously believes that talks between Netanyahu and whatever Palestinian coalition they might but probably won't cobble together, will ever come to anything. Also, pressure from Russia means very little to Israel. Pressure from the USA means very much. You are probably right, talks that involve Netanyahu will come to nothing. Former Dutch PM tells Haaretz: European leaders can't trust Netanyahu ... http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/former-dutch-pm-tells-haaretz-european-leaders-can-t-trust-netanyahu-1.347806 Merkel chides Netanyahu for failing to make 'a single step to advance peace' In a tense telephone call, PM tells German chancellor that he was disappointed by Germany's vote at UN, but assures her he intends to launch new peace plan soon; Merkel reportedly did not believe Netanyahu, saying he disappointed her. http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/merkel-chides-netanyahu-for-failing-to-make-a-single-step-to-advance-peace-1.345539 Israel wary as Britain boosts Palestinian diplomatic status Prior to British-Palestinian National Authority (PNA) talks set for Tuesday, British Foreign Secretary William Hague announced on Monday that his country was upgrading the diplomatic status of PNA representatives. http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90854/7313022.html Europe’s stand on Middle East peace Benjamin Netanyahu’s government gives every impression of believing this is as it should be. Only the other day it announced more illegal settlement-building in the West Bank. Mr Netanyahu has never shown serious intent about a peace accord; now he says that the upheavals in the region give further cause to hold back. The advance of democracy, the argument runs, has robbed Israel of “reliable” partners in the Arab world. Israel’s friends are taking a different view. Last month, Britain, France and Germany broke with Washington by backing a Security Council resolution condemning settlements in Jerusalem and the West Bank. The resolution drew the support of 14 of the 15 members – and a veto from a justly embarrassed Mr Obama. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d33f2918-50c9-11e0-9227-00144feab49a.html#axzz1H21IUmdu Why does pressure from Russia means very little? Why does pressure from the USA means so much? Because the ignorant Netanyahu is already isolated and Obama is the only friend he have left. So it goes if you think the opinion of other states just means very little to you or doesn't matter. You are at the mercy of a litte veto, but Obama cannot shrug the others so easily off like you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) How much foreign/military aid does Russia give Israel? Israel is focused on their own survival and they do indeed face real serious threats; they understandably have trouble seeing the bigger global picture. It's funny, I am representing a very left wing but still pro existence of Jewish Israel point of view, but somehow that isn't anti-Israel enough for some. That says a lot, that indeed many of the critics of Israel don't want Israel to exist as a Jewish state in ANY form. Edited March 19, 2011 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Israel doesn't want peace. They are perfectly happy with the way things are. They have far too much to lose by making peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Israel doesn't want peace. They are perfectly happy with the way things are. They have far too much to lose by making peace. If by Israel you mean the current Israeli government, that is correct. However that doesn't mean all Israelis feel that way or that most global Jews feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Israel doesn't want peace. They are perfectly happy with the way things are. They have far too much to lose by making peace. If by Israel you mean the current Israeli government, that is correct. However that doesn't mean all Israelis feel that way or that most global Jews feel that way. It's the people that vote the government in.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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