Notarized Letter From Us Embassy Stating Income

[Jingthing]

We agree the evidence is insufficient to proclaim an actual enforcement policy change on this issue is actually in force even at one office. But the evidence that it isn't is not overwhelming either. That's why I say -- keep reporting, keep watching it, and in the meantime, sorry to be crass, don't you dare make up a fictional number for your embassy letter and if you are the cautious type especially for Americans in Bangkok, you might as well gather some supporting evidence to bring just in case. Give it time to make a conclusion. Especially in these enforcement policy variations from office to office, it's tricky to figure out what's going on. Of course, sometimes there is just one officer with interesting creative ideas.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Jingthing

[Mrjlh]

They wan to see that you actually have money in the bank.

Someone said this within the last 3 years? Or do you remember it from long ago? I have not been asked for any such account information since change to retirement about seven years ago and also use Bangkok and from reports here it does not seem most people are.

This seems to be asked in Jomtien; but has not been asked in Bangkok.

Because I like moving around I've used Phuket, Hua Hin, and Korat. This was the first time I had to go to Bangkok. At Bangkok (Chaengwattana). I was also told by the Officer that this was needed only two months ago when I got my Non-O. Why do I know? Cause I wrote it down!

In Phuket, I was directly told this requirement by an Immigration Officer when I asked him of the importance of the Bank Letter in '07. They wanted to see that you have money in the bank. It's more "official" with a bank letter. It use to be and maybe still is in some places, copies of the bank book was required. I wasn't asked for it but I had it. I remember even reporting this on one of my extension visits reports a couple of years ago. It makes all the sense in the world. Think about it. In fact, the bank letter actually saves them time. No more shuffling thru ten pages of copies when they only need one. All they need is the last page anyway but they like seeing your deposits.

When I was in Hua Hin, you wouldn't believe the hoops the one agent had people going thru. I know because I remember all the posts about it and my own bad experience with him. Every time you would go in there he changed what info he wanted. Hopefully he's gone. I had to go back to my bank and get a letter showing the current balance when I already had the information he needed from my bank book. And that was a real pain because the Office was out in the boonies where you needed a 4 wheel drive if it was raining!

Korat was very easy and probably the quickest. Don't recall any issues there.

No offense but as far as yourself not being ask for this information, other than your expertise, I don't know enough about your own situation to comment. It doesn't mean others haven't been. I have two friends in Phuket that make 4-5 times what I could possibly make each month. They do the monthly because it's stupid putting money in a place that doesn't work for you. They tell me they've never been questioned on each yearly visit. They've been here several years and own houses. They only showed the retirement statement the first time they went. That's what I was told by them. And besides, I share the same opinion as theirs, it's nobody's business what they make.

I don't think you will get any definitive answer on what the rules are. There are just too many variables in just the different experience levels of the staff in each office. It's just the way it is. Good luck.

[Mrjlh]

Just for clarification:

When I got my non-o two months ago, I wrote down everything I was to supply immigration when I came back to apply for my extension.

Passport

TM-7 with photo attached

Letter from Embassy affirming monthly salary

Bank letter showing current funds

Copies of Passport of all pages including attachments (stapled and every page signed or Initialed)

Make no mistake about it, I supplied what I was told to supply, contrary to what some have implied I did not need. Any thing extra was included because it is implied to provide any additional documentation when asked by Immigration. If people don't understand this then it's their issue not mine.

[lopburi3]

Only the data page and visa onward should be required as well as the departure card. In your case only your non immigrant visa and stay stamps from that should have been required as you were making a new extension of stay.

[Tod Daniels]

We agree the evidence is insufficient to proclaim an actual enforcement policy change on this issue is actually in force even at one office. But the evidence that it isn't is not overwhelming either. That's why I say -- keep reporting, keep watching it, <>SNIPPPED>

We are in 100%! agreement!!

<SNIP> Especially in these enforcement policy variations from office to office, it's tricky to figure out what's going on. Of course, sometimes there is just one officer with interesting creative ideas. <SNIP>

On this we must agree to agree also!!

I HATE the disparity in requirements by the Thai Immigrations offices scattered around the country.

This problem was only made worse by Immigrations implementing their "Zone Policy" telling people where they hafta go based on where they live.

Some of the newer Immigrations Offices staff take entirely too much creative license in their interpretation of the rules and the documentation they require.

I guess, I should be thankful (for now at least) that I deal only with Changwattana. ..

[BuckarooBanzai]

If I put everything in my Thai account my wife would spend it all. Thais have no sense of budget and god help those that send everything to an account the wife can access.

Just an observation!

Edited April 8, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[vont]

If I put everything in my Thai account my wife would spend it all. Thais have no sense of budget and god help those that send everything to an account the wife can access.

I am just wondering out loud how many of us try to work something out with our partners in terms of:

how much to spend for food each week,

when to pay our rent,

when to pay utilities,

how much we set aside for her incidental expense weekly,

And much is the king of the house setup for himself....

I did all the above from the very first week,

and fortunately for me, she has never once gone over the budget.

However, on several occasions, because of illness, additional cash

was transferred from savings which I am sure we all do that every now and then.

Yes, I counted myself lucky to have cooperative family members. :jap:

Edited April 8, 2011 by vont

[Mrjlh]

Only the data page and visa onward should be required as well as the departure card. In your case only your non immigrant visa and stay stamps from that should have been required as you were making a new extension of stay.

You would think that would be the case. But that thinking is TOO far advanced for certain members of the human race. I just followed the instructions given. But maybe in my case that was a plus becuase it showed a continuous track record of approvals. Now I don't care. I'm good for another year when guess what ..this entire subject will come up again. I can bet on it!

[JimGant]

Mrjih, your description of events says you converted a visa exempt entry, or a tourist visa, to a Non Imm visa. If correct, a couple of questions:

Since you need to have met the retirement extension requirements to do the conversion, was showing just the 65k income letter sufficient -- or did they want a bank letter too, as they did for the subsequent extension 2 months later?

Was the income letter from the Embassy the same one you subsequently used 2 months later? (I ask, because I remember a report, or reports, of Immigration taking the income letter when the conversion took place, and requiring a new one 2 months later for the extension.)

Thanks.

[lopburi3]

If I put everything in my Thai account my wife would spend it all.

Only if you allow as the account should be in your name only.

[Tod Daniels]

Mrjih, your description of events says you converted a visa exempt entry, or a tourist visa, to a Non Imm visa. If correct, a couple of questions:

Since you need to have met the retirement extension requirements to do the conversion, was showing just the 65k income letter sufficient -- or did they want a bank letter too, as they did for the subsequent extension 2 months later?

Was the income letter from the Embassy the same one you subsequently used 2 months later? (I ask, because I remember a report, or reports, of Immigration taking the income letter when the conversion took place, and requiring a new one 2 months later for the extension.)

Thanks.

I've had instances where acquaintances have entered on a 30 day "visa exempt stamp", we went to Immigrations AND did the "two step process". First Immigrations issued them a single entry 90 day Non-Immigrant Type-O visa, then they processed the yearly extension of stay based on retirement.

Sometimes Immigrations did this on the same visit as in both 'steps' at once. Sometimes they made the person come back after the 90 day non-o was down to about a month left. I tried but couldn't figure out any rhyme or reason on how they made the choice to either do them both at once or make someone come back. I've seen it go both ways.

In those instances; the people were using the US Embassy letter as sole proof of funds. If I remember correctly, I think one guy was using the US Embassy letter and the Bank Letter (money in a Thai bank) meaning he used the "combination method" to hit the 800K baht. However, both those methods require no 'seasoning of funds'.

BTW: Immigrations was gracious enough when making the person return in 60+ days for their yearly extension to let them keep the original US Embassy letter. They took a color copy for the Non-O 90 day visa. They coulda just as easily said, go get a new one, but they didn't. Thank the Goddess for small favors..

Edited April 9, 2011 by tod-daniels

[Mrjlh]

Mrjih, your description of events says you converted a visa exempt entry, or a tourist visa, to a Non Imm visa. If correct, a couple of questions:

Since you need to have met the retirement extension requirements to do the conversion, was showing just the 65k income letter sufficient -- or did they want a bank letter too, as they did for the subsequent extension 2 months later?

Was the income letter from the Embassy the same one you subsequently used 2 months later? (I ask, because I remember a report, or reports, of Immigration taking the income letter when the conversion took place, and requiring a new one 2 months later for the extension.)

Thanks.

Converting my Tourist to a 90 day Non-O two months ago, I was told I only needed an "Embassy income letter" (that was sufficient) and only 3 pages out of my passport which oddly enough the people doing copying downstairs knew exactly what was needed. (Just what Lop said.) Not needing the bank letter also makes some sense because at some banks you can not get an account with a Tourist stamp. It's usually after you get the Non-O you can get a bank account. And since you still have not gotten the Non-O, how can you supply a bank letter? Make sense?

Then after receiving my 90 Day Non-O, I specifically asked what do I need the next time. I wrote it all down as I was told. I told her I did not want to make any errors or mistakes or need to go off and get more information later. Do it right the first time. So what I previously posted is what I was told as being "required". I did exactly what I was told and guess what? I had no questions. It went rather easily.

We spend too much time second guessing what we "should or should not" have to please every Immigration Officer. Instead we should be gathering the information of "what works", even if we think its too much information and over kill. Each one of us has our own unique set of circumstances. But if we can find the common set to things to always have it makes it easier for all. The more organized and the more prepared you are, the less chance of you having any problems occuring.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Mrjlh

[JimGant]

So, you were able to use the same Embassy income statement for both visits to Immigration...?

[tropo]

Mrjih, your description of events says you converted a visa exempt entry, or a tourist visa, to a Non Imm visa. If correct, a couple of questions:

Since you need to have met the retirement extension requirements to do the conversion, was showing just the 65k income letter sufficient -- or did they want a bank letter too, as they did for the subsequent extension 2 months later?

Was the income letter from the Embassy the same one you subsequently used 2 months later? (I ask, because I remember a report, or reports, of Immigration taking the income letter when the conversion took place, and requiring a new one 2 months later for the extension.)

Thanks.

Converting my Tourist to a 90 day Non-O two months ago, I was told I only needed an "Embassy income letter" (that was sufficient) and only 3 pages out of my passport which oddly enough the people doing copying downstairs knew exactly what was needed. (Just what Lop said.) Not needing the bank letter also makes some sense because at some banks you can not get an account with a Tourist stamp. It's usually after you get the Non-O you can get a bank account. And since you still have not gotten the Non-O, how can you supply a bank letter? Make sense?

Then after receiving my 90 Day Non-O, I specifically asked what do I need the next time. I wrote it all down as I was told. I told her I did not want to make any errors or mistakes or need to go off and get more information later. Do it right the first time. So what I previously posted is what I was told as being "required". I did exactly what I was told and guess what? I had no questions. It went rather easily.

We spend too much time second guessing what we "should or should not" have to please every Immigration Officer. Instead we should be gathering the information of "what works", even if we think its too much information and over kill. Each one of us has our own unique set of circumstances. But if we can find the common set to things to always have it makes it easier for all. The more organized and the more prepared you are, the less chance of you having any problems occuring.

The reason why we have this forum is to learn from others exactly what is required. I can't see the point of bringing more than is needed. Most of use who have retired in Thailand are trying to get away from excess paper work.

[lopburi3]

It may make sense to know what has been required of others and have the paperwork on hand but we should not offer more than normal until/unless asked. Even when told items are required, if beforehand, it may not be conclusive as often officer will just quote non specific all inclusive list, as is done on visa paperwork, rather than the actual papers needed for the specific application.

[Jingthing]

It may make sense to know what has been required of others and have the paperwork on hand but we should not offer more than normal until/unless asked. Even when told items are required, if beforehand, it may not be conclusive as often officer will just quote non specific list all inclusive list, as is done on visa paperwork, rather than the actual papers needed for the specific application.

Agreed 100 percent. While I think the reports of what some posters are being told are real (regarding the income letter issue for Americans) that doesn't mean I would suggest offering any supporting evidence for the income letter (if using an income letter) unless explicitly requested/required. Definitely don't offer it!

Edited April 10, 2011 by Jingthing

[tropo]

It may make sense to know what has been required of others and have the paperwork on hand but we should not offer more than normal until/unless asked. Even when told items are required, if beforehand, it may not be conclusive as often officer will just quote non specific list all inclusive list, as is done on visa paperwork, rather than the actual papers needed for the specific application.

Agreed 100 percent. While I think the reports of what some posters are being told are real (regarding the income letter issue for Americans) that doesn't mean I would suggest offering anything more than the income letter (if using an income letter) unless explicitly requested/required.

When I went for my first retirement extension last year I went into the Jomtien Immigration office to ask what is required. They gave me an A3 leaflet with all the requirement listed. There was no mention of any documents to support the income letter from Embassy. I went back 2 weeks ago and asked the same question. They gave me exactly the same leaflet as last year. I must assume there have been no changes at the Jomtien office since last year.

[Jingthing]

Yes, I don't think there have been any reports out of Jomtien similar to the Bangkok ones. Nothing new here that different offices or officers sometimes do things differently. Obviously if an enforcement policy was presented in a written list from immigration, then you would be wise to offer everything on that list that is applicable to your application.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Jingthing

[tropo]

Yes, I don't think there have been any reports out of Jomtien similar to the Bangkok ones. Nothing new here that different offices or officers sometimes do things differently. Obviously if an enforcement policy was presented in a written list from immigration, then you would be wise to offer everything on that list that is applicable to your application.

They have a very heavy work volume at Jomtien. I'm sure they prefer to keep things simple.

[Jingthing]

They have a very heavy work volume at Jomtien. I'm sure they prefer to keep things simple.

I wouldn't generalize about that. Over time, Jomtien has enforced some quirky rules as well.

[tropo]

They have a very heavy work volume at Jomtien. I'm sure they prefer to keep things simple.

I wouldn't generalize about that. Over time, Jomtien has enforced some quirky rules as well.

Overall I it's been a very easy office to deal with.I think it has become more organised over the years.

Edited April 10, 2011 by tropo

[Mrjlh]

So, you were able to use the same Embassy income statement for both visits to Immigration...?

If I didn't already answer this.. No.... I needed a new one. Nothing changed on it. I think this was stupid because they are supposed to be good for 90 days. And I went back before that. So as not to upset them I got a new one.

[lopburi3]

They did not keep the original? I have always provided as it changes a bit (well it used to until inflation stopped) each year so always got new and provided original. Know upcountry some offices allowed same for years but have also seen reports new one needed for both change of visa status (as here) and extension if not done same day.

[Mrjlh]

They did not keep the original? I have always provided as it changes a bit (well it used to until inflation stopped) each year so always got new and provided original. Know upcountry some offices allowed same for years but have also seen reports new one needed for both change of visa status (as here) and extension if not done same day.

Brain dead today. ..Only focused on answering comment. I remember asking if I could just give them a copy of what I just gave them the first time. Nope, needed a new original. Makes sense doesn't it?

As usual you are correct.

[theoldgit]

Has anyone ever had their income documents authenticated by their embassy, rather than just reviewed? And for those that do review your papertrail, just exactly what is the wording on the document your embassy signs-off on? Theoldgit, what does your UK document say? (I bet it says nothing about the validity of the papers reviewed.)

Got my letter back from the British Embassy today, the relevant paragraph is:

"theoldgit has provided evidence that he receives an annual pension of GBP XX,XXX.XX or GBP X,XXX per month"

I had to show them the original pension statement, in my case it was a Civil Service Pension, there is a phone number on the statement which they could have used to authenticate the document, though I suspect they didn't

[boshidoson]

Just returned from Chaing Wattanna for 1 year extension of retirement visa. Submitted income affidavit from US embassy. A quick glance and officer said I needed a letter to verify income. I had read this thread so I had my bank book with me. I had over 800,000 THB in account so after checking the age of the money she made copies and excepted it. She still converted the dollars to baht stated on affidavit. I went early for extension as I am going to US in a few weeks and will not return before visa expires. I have to return 2 days before departure to get passport stamped and re-entry permit

[InterestedObserver]

Just returned from Chaing Wattanna for 1 year extension of retirement visa. Submitted income affidavit from US embassy. A quick glance and officer said I needed a letter to verify income. I had read this thread so I had my bank book with me. I had over 800,000 THB in account so after checking the age of the money she made copies and excepted it. She still converted the dollars to baht stated on affidavit. I went early for extension as I am going to US in a few weeks and will not return before visa expires. I have to return 2 days before departure to get passport stamped and re-entry permit

A quick question. If you had the 800,000 THB in a Thai bank account for the required length of time, then why bother with the embassy affidavit?

[boshidoson]

Just returned from Chaing Wattanna for 1 year extension of retirement visa. Submitted income affidavit from US embassy. A quick glance and officer said I needed a letter to verify income. I had read this thread so I had my bank book with me. I had over 800,000 THB in account so after checking the age of the money she made copies and excepted it. She still converted the dollars to baht stated on affidavit. I went early for extension as I am going to US in a few weeks and will not return before visa expires. I have to return 2 days before departure to get passport stamped and re-entry permit

A quick question. If you had the 800,000 THB in a Thai bank account for the required length of time, then why bother with the embassy affidavit?

The affidavit worked last time. I did not want to give them the bank book unless I had too. Bad precedent for next time I think. Keeping that much money here is not very smart as you are very limited what you can do with it, ie. investments even earning a pittence of interest. I try to take everything that they they could possibly ask for. I have never had a time when they asked for something that I did not have to ultimately provide it. It saves me trips out there. As it turns out I have to go back anyway.

[InterestedObserver]

Just returned from Chaing Wattanna for 1 year extension of retirement visa. Submitted income affidavit from US embassy. A quick glance and officer said I needed a letter to verify income. I had read this thread so I had my bank book with me. I had over 800,000 THB in account so after checking the age of the money she made copies and excepted it. She still converted the dollars to baht stated on affidavit. I went early for extension as I am going to US in a few weeks and will not return before visa expires. I have to return 2 days before departure to get passport stamped and re-entry permit

A quick question. If you had the 800,000 THB in a Thai bank account for the required length of time, then why bother with the embassy affidavit?

The affidavit worked last time. I did not want to give them the bank book unless I had too. Bad precedent for next time I think. Keeping that much money here is not very smart as you are very limited what you can do with it, ie. investments even earning a pittence of interest. I try to take everything that they they could possibly ask for. I have never had a time when they asked for something that I did not have to ultimately provide it. It saves me trips out there. As it turns out I have to go back anyway.

The logic escapes me! You need to make an unnecessary trip to the US Embassy and pay 50 USD for your income affidavit plus you need living expenses in Thailand anyway, or are you one of those fellows that live off the ATM and claim zero cost for using the machine.

[chuckd]

I renewed my extension based on retirement yesterday in Udon Thani.

They accepted the US Embassy letter without question as it was within their six month validity window. They never asked for a bank letter or bank book.

In and out in less than half an hour, along with a residence certification letter for driver's license application.

Very helpful and attentive in the office.