What Do American Doctors Make In Thailand?

[kevinellerton]

Hey guys,

Does anyone actually REALLY KNOW how much American-trained doctors make in Thailand? It seems like everyone has a different answer.

I'm back in the US right now and considering going to med school... but it depends on what my income will be back in the Land of Smiles.

My Thai GF told me that American doctors in Thailand make around 5 million baht per year. I'm pretty sure this is just a random estimate as she has no relatives or friends who are doctors.

On this forum, I've heard everything from 50k / month - 1.5m / month. This is a very big difference. If I can really make a million a month as a surgeon in Thailand, it might be worth the 10-12 years I'll have to spend in America.

As an aside... does anyone know how much I could expect to earn (as an American) if I decided to go to medical school in Thailand?!? Obviously it would be less than if I were to get trained in America but hey, I'm sure there are many international hospitals that would be happy to hire a native english-speaking surgeon.

If anyone has any real-life experience (even he-said she-said), please please please let me know.

Thanks!

[TravelerEastWest]

Try going backwards:

Look at what a specialist trained overseas charges for office visits in a large Bangkok private hospital.

Perhaps 800 baht for a 15 minute consultation so a max of around 25000 for a day but what percent does the doctor get?

Lets say 15, 000 x 25 days a month is 375,000 very roughly. Plus extra for actual surgery. So a top surgeon with lots of experience could make 1 milion per month.

[Soutpeel]

If you have not passed the Thai medical board exams (which are writtten in Thai) you cant practice as a doctor in Thailand.

Also your are wondering what you will be making in Thailand at least 7-10 years hence, I would be more worried about what you are going to do this year or next year..

As to medical school in Thailand can you speak/read Thai fluently ?

As a doctor I would suggest that most get into it as a vocation (at least initally) and not selecting the profession on how much they think they can earn, if you only goal is how much you can earn, my I humbly suggest you look at another profession.

[kevinellerton]

Thanks for your input so far, I truly appreciate the speedy replies.

Soutpeel,

1. I can speak fluently, and am starting to learn to read. My Thai isn't good enough for med school in Thailand but I pick things up quickly and if I take a language course I'll be able to do it.

2. I appreciate your point about not going into medicine for the money. My mission in life is to maximize my potential by saving as many other humans' lives as possible, and that's why I have been considering going into medicine. However, I believe that the best contribution that I personally could make would involve leveraging capital to build "clean" energy capacity (windmills, etc), fund hospitals, etc in places that really need them. If I am living paycheck-to-paycheck as a doctor in Thailand, I won't be able to do any of that. If I am making a million baht a month, I can save up pretty quickly and start building wind farms within a few years of graduating med school, while all the while saving lives in the operating room.

TravelerEastWest, I've done those calculations too, but I feel I can't rely on something which involves so much guesswork.

If anyone on this board has actual real-life experience working in a Thai hospital (or know someone who does), please let me know.

Thanks guys!

[BigJohnnyBKK]

If you're really serious about this, I would suggest coming to Bangkok, hanging around the upper-end hospitals (Bumrungrad and BNH) and getting to know some doctors.

I would strongly advise against getting trained here, people would really look at you like you're from another planet - there's a reason why all the good jobs (outside of status-management-social-connection-political ones) go to foreign-trained medicos.

I do know that most doctors working in hospitals make most of their money in their own side-job clinic work outside the hospital.

And (warning what follows is just my 2 cents and none of my business) If your real inspiration is in this windfarm thing, go for that - don't put off what really inspires you for something else that you think will be the means to an unrelated end. Medical school is such a long hard slog, so many years down the line you're very likely going to be as or more inspired by other things many times over, your path will continue to change.

In fact IMO even chasing money as the means to another end usually doesn't work either - start now with where your passion is now, let the money come as a side-benefit to doing work you truly love - which it usually will. Or alternatively, just go for the money as a goal in itself, let yourself be 'corrupted' by the system, and once you're secure then (maybe) you'll be able to find your way back to some ideals - but unlikely.

[ExpatJ]

As i understand it- there is no shortage of thai doctors so the chances of a foreigner getting a job are minimal to none. The only doctors from the West i have seen here are volunteers.

[SteeleJoe]

I seriously doubt that an American doctor can just show up and get a job making big money here. (For one thing, I think we'd see lot of them here if that were the case -- even allowing for the fact that could make really big money in the states).

No offense Kevin, I applaud your optimism and can do attitude but it seems like you are looking at the whole thing a bit too simplistically and blase...

Going through medical school is no simple thing to start with (expense wise and academically) and then just popping over here and earning loads of money?

Personally, I don't think that's a lifeplan I'd count on.

Edited April 12, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[jcon]

I would start with your MCAT scores and your reasons for becoming a physician. We can have this discussion again after you've taken your Step1 and Step2. There is much to consider before getting onto the building-of-windfarms-as-a-side-job-from-a-surgery practice.

That list is quite long. I don't think it's necessary to even go there right now - if you don't believe me, see the reaction of your interviewer to your windfarm-proposal during a med-school interview.

Money for windfarms (or money, in general) is not a good reason to get into medicine, period full stop. Again, if you don't believe me, ask any physician you see. Better yet, ask a medical resident. Better even, ask an intern on night-float.

[SteeleJoe]

My Thai GF told me that American doctors in Thailand make around 5 million baht per year. I'm pretty sure this is just a random estimate as she has no relatives or friends who are doctors.

I'm pretty sure too.

[chiang mai]

A Thai cardiologist at a large private hospital charges Baht 20,000 (surgeons fee only) for angioplasty and he performs three a week, every week - a twenty minute consultation with the same will see him earn a fee of Baht 1,500 and he probably sees fifteen to twenty patients per day, go calculate.

[InterestedObserver]

My Thai GF told me that American doctors in Thailand make around 5 million baht per year. I'm pretty sure this is just a random estimate as she has no relatives or friends who are doctors.

I'm pretty sure too.

And of course the American doctor has a Thai medical license and was granted a work permit.

[aussiebebe]

Sorry if this is unhelpful but my only real-life experience of the Thai medical world is that foreigners flock here because everything is dam_n cheaper than the West. I take this to mean that an American doctor would maximise their earning potential by working in the US, not Thailand. Various friends or just people I've met and know have, over the years, often saved so much by having their surgery in Thailand (eye/knee/back/hip surgery especially) that they've managed to have a free holiday and still save money.

[Ayutthaya69]

and you have to speak fluide Thai writing Thai read Thai good luck

[cloudhopper]

My mission in life is to maximize my potential by saving as many other humans' lives as possible, and that's why I have been considering going into medicine. However, I believe that the best contribution that I personally could make would involve leveraging capital to build "clean" energy capacity (windmills, etc), fund hospitals, etc in places that really need them.

Kevin,

If you have any significant debt at the end of your residency you will have no chance to "leverage" anything. Don't go into medicine for the money, because there isn't likely to be that much out there for future health care workers IMO. And even less for you here in Thailand.

[lannarebirth]

A Thai cardiologist at a large private hospital charges Baht 20,000 (surgeons fee only) for angioplasty and he performs three a week, every week - a twenty minute consultation with the same will see him earn a fee of Baht 1,500 and he probably sees fifteen to twenty patients per day, go calculate.

My best friend in America was an endrocrinologist. He was married to a cardiologist. he was doing the corporate med model and making about 200k ($USD) per year. His Iranian born wife was pulling in 500k + per year . That was all 10 years ago. He eventually couldn't stand working for the corporate med provider and quit to become a babysitter for the children.

My best friend here in Thailand is a physician as well. GP, Chula Grad, Lt Col. flight surgeon as well. When I met him initially he was working about 20 hrs per day in order to pulldown 200k per year at one of Bangkok's private hoispitals. He was on a mission as the fees for his two boys international schools were consuming roughly half the family budget. Oh, he ran a clinic under his house at the same time.

Anyway, he's in f'ing clover now. First kid accepted to Thammasat Med School, second kid accepted at Chula's architecture school. In the meantime he found himself a 400k ish job being regional director for an international healthcare provider.

What was the question again? Oh yeah, should you go to med school in the US and then come to work here, From what I know I wouldn't recommend it, but you may wish to PM Thaivis boardmembers "Idrankwhat", and I'm not sure if I've got this one right "BKKMD", or something like that. Anyhow, good luck.

Edited April 12, 2011 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

and you have to speak fluide Thai writing Thai read Thai good luck

This is an extremely important point. My buddy's son ( and I alluded to in another post) is 100% Thai and speaks fluent Thai at the same level as all other natives. BECAUSE his father sent hin to Intl; School it was felt by them that he should take intensive Thai language courses (this for a kid that speaks Thai in the 99th percentile already). So they did and now he's a Thammasat and he's gonna be a dictor in 5-6 years and his future security is assured, which is all any parent wants for their children.

[lannarebirth]

My mission in life is to maximize my potential by saving as many other humans' lives as possible, and that's why I have been considering going into medicine. However, I believe that the best contribution that I personally could make would involve leveraging capital to build "clean" energy capacity (windmills, etc), fund hospitals, etc in places that really need them.

Kevin,

If you have any significant debt at the end of your residency you will have no chance to "leverage" anything. Don't go into medicine for the money, because there isn't likely to be that much out there for future health care workers IMO. And even less for you here in Thailand.

Indeed , it is far more likely some financial institution is leveraging off his student loans already.

[parallaxtech]

And of course the American doctor has a Thai medical license and was granted a work permit.

I am an American doctor living in Koh Samui and saved enough money to live on for the rest of my life, but intended to work part-time or as a volunteer. However, the roadblocks put before me were impossible to overcome:

You must read/write/speak fluent Thai -- that includes all anatomy, medical terms, pharmacology, etc. I was told that after you fail the test, which is assured, a bribe of $50,000 will secure the license (hearsay). Since I was interested in working for a low fee or for free this was not a viable option. Even if by some miracle, you passed the test, you would be about as welcome as a ladyboy at the Miss Universe contest.

Most foreign doctors are trying to work in the US, where they must pass the USMLE, which is very difficult for a non-English speaker, so they usually work as nurses until or if they ever pass it.

My advice to you would be to pursue engineering and still fulfill the pre-med requirements as electives. By the time your undergraduate degree is obtained you will know better whether you wish to continue to med school or chase windmills.

[Sheryl]

It is extremely difficult for a non-Thai to get licensed to practice medicine in Thailand. Not more than a handful of farang docs have ever managed it. I doubt your gf knows them or even anyone who knows them, so most likely what she is referring to is American-trained Thai doc, of which there are many.

The level of written Thai one would need to pass a medical exam far exceeds what can be picked up in a few years no matter how brilliant you may be at languages.

Same applies to getting a medical education here, although from time to time I hear rumors of future plans to have an English language medical program at MUIC.

[chainarong]

Think very carefully on this my friend ,you are now entering a mine field of bureaucratic mumbo jumbo, that even the best would despair at, your windpower generator project would be more beneficial ,as it can be manufactured / marketed from Thailand, there you are the direction has already been made for you.

[CaptHaddock]

As a doctor I would suggest that most get into it as a vocation (at least initally) and not selecting the profession on how much they think they can earn, if you only goal is how much you can earn, my I humbly suggest you look at another profession.

To the OP, although you will get a lot of the pious don't-go-into-medicine-for-the-money advice here, in fact, probably most doctors do, at least here in the US. Doctors are every bit as money-motivated as anyone else in my experience. They are the only service providers we deal with who routinely commit insurance fraud (making a bogus diagnosis on a routine checkup so that insurance covers the visit, making the patient come back for a second visit when the sample could have been collected in the original visit so that doc gets paid twice, etc.). We know that a great deal of healthcare overuse originates with the doctors who practice defensive medicine by overtesting and overprescribing, especially if they have interests in companies providing diagnostic services like CAT or MRI. In a fee-for-services system like the American one, providers respond to incentives by generating more services, as can be expected.

The health care industry in the US did not succeed in expropriating 16% of GDP by imitating Dr. Schweitzer.

[jdinasia]

It is extremely difficult for a non-Thai to get licensed to practice medicine in Thailand. Not more than a handful of farang docs have ever managed it. I doubt your gf knows them or even anyone who knows them, so most likely what she is referring to is American-trained Thai doc, of which there are many.

The level of written Thai one would need to pass a medical exam far exceeds what can be picked up in a few years no matter how brilliant you may be at languages.

Same applies to getting a medical education here, although from time to time I hear rumors of future plans to have an English language medical program at MUIC.

More to the issue at hand is ... what will the rules be in 10-12 years? In 2015 the ASEAN agreements on cross-border work will come into place and who knows how much change that will bring?

[FritsSikkink]

Thanks for your input so far, I truly appreciate the speedy replies.

2. I appreciate your point about not going into medicine for the money. My mission in life is to maximize my potential by saving as many other humans' lives as possible, and that's why I have been considering going into medicine. If anyone on this board has actual real-life experience working in a Thai hospital (or know someone who does), please let me know.

If I can really make a million a month as a surgeon in Thailand, it might be worth the 10-12 years I'll have to spend in America

Me thinks you contradict yourself a bit.

[kevinellerton]

Hey guys...

So, since the last time I posted here, I've completed 90% of my pre-med requirements in the USA, and I'm almost ready to go to medical school.

I have to choose between MD and DO programs. I can get into a good school either way, but I really like the DO philosophy (more hands-on). Does anybody know if DO's are accepted in Thailand the way MD's are?

Please let me know.

Thanks!

[ExpatJ]

I don't think American or other foreigners can work as a doctor here. The only exception would be a foreign specialist with 15-20 yrs experience in a specific area who could come and do short term consulting work.

[Asiantravel]

When I attended a routine medical exam at BNH Hospital in convent Road Bangkok

a few years ago I saw a Caucasian doctor. He was an older guy in his 70s! And I think he was English.

Just looking at their webpage now his photo isn't there any more but there is still this guy

who you may want to have a chat with

http://www.bnhhospital.com/en/find_doctor/detail/156

[lopburi3]

Doctors can work here if they pass the normal medical exams in Thai and find a job. For most the language requirement makes it very difficult. Not sure what the new one Asian policy will do to that requirement.

[Morakot]

Doctors can work here if they pass the normal medical exams in Thai and find a job. For most the language requirement makes it very difficult. Not sure what the new one Asian policy will do to that requirement.

That's already in place for practising medicine within ASEAN countries, before the AEC takes place. So if you are for example a fully qualified Malaysian doctor, you should in theory be able to work here. I strongly suspect that you need to be able to converse in Thai and probably be able to read and write too.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Morakot

[yoshiwara]

Thanks for your input so far, I truly appreciate the speedy replies.

2. I appreciate your point about not going into medicine for the money. My mission in life is to maximize my potential by saving as many other humans' lives as possible, and that's why I have been considering going into medicine. If anyone on this board has actual real-life experience working in a Thai hospital (or know someone who does), please let me know.

If I can really make a million a month as a surgeon in Thailand, it might be worth the 10-12 years I'll have to spend in America

Me thinks you contradict yourself a bit.

and Walter Mitty alarm bells ringing.

[cloudhopper]

I have to choose between MD and DO programs. I can get into a good school either way, but I really like the DO philosophy (more hands-on). Does anybody know if DO's are accepted in Thailand the way MD's are?

That's quite an enviable position to be in Kevin you must have aced the MCAT. If in the event you really do make that choice then being comfortable with one's own professional philosophy surely trumps its acceptance by others.