What Would You Do?

[boris]

Good to see we are all United on one matter then.

No Surrender to Terroism!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you define terrorism? Would it include the abduction and murder of activist lawyers or the heartless treatment of prisoners(mostly innocent one presumes) resulting in hundreds of deaths?I have no doubt there are highly undesirable outsiders seeking to stir up trouble in the South, but the severity of the current problems can be largely be credited to decades of neglect, arrogance and incompetence on the part of a succession of Bangkok based administrations.

[AlexLah]

Hi all,

I am not really sure but is the whole fighting about having an independed state,country whatever.

If I remember well the part of Thailand what they are fighting about was not originally part of Thailand. So why not create that country/state again?

Why is that part of Thailand so important?

Just give it back and hopefully the killings will stop and people will live in harmony.

Why are there seperate country's, I mean when I look at the earth from an airplane I see no borders. So much money is wasted on protecting ones borders.

Life can be easy but we make it so difficult for ourselves.

KR,

Alex

[craigt3365]

Tizme: you are spot on!

Alexlah: you are forgetting about all the non-muslims that live there. What do you do about them? Same thing as was done by the British in India/Pakistan? Look how great that turned out. You can't just draw a line in the sand. Anyway, you think Toxin would allow that? Now way...too much for his ego.

I have thought about this for years. I live in the worst area anywhere for terrorism. New York City. I was on the subway headed to the towers where I worked when the blast occurred. Luckily, I started work early at home and decided to come into work late. NYC was a messed up place for a long time...and I still have bad memories of some of the friends I lost. So, I quit my job and headed to Thailand!

I was in Thailand planning a trip to Bali when the blast happened. So, went to the Philippines instead and got caught up in that blast on Mindinao. Headed back to Thailand ASAP and then north to Laos and China...got caught up in SARS (what a mess that was)....so headed to South America. Got caught up in all kinds of crazy stuff there (Ecuador, Peru and Bolivia are really messed up. Was in a town where a guy was shot in a protest only 100 yards from my hotel...no fun).

I can't imagine what would happen if a bomb went off on KSR. I am not sure what I would do...other than avoid McDonalds, farang hot spots, etc. and get on with my life. But it sure does make you think...the worst would be for the poor Thai's that would lose their jobs....just like in the tsunami. That sucks.

[Gazza]

Odds are much higher that you and/or your family will be killed in a senseless traffic accident than killed by any terrorist threat.

So are you going to run away to somewhere where they drive more sensibly? Of course not, so why run away because of a very small threat from terrorists?

Who said anything about running away?

Until it's known what and where the targets would be, the frequency and severity of the attacks, methods etc., then I can't say what I'd do or even say how it would affect my children.

Saying 'I would do this' or 'I would do that' is one thing, but, until something actually happens...I can not honestly say what I would do.

[Belfastboy]

well i think i probably know more than anyone about living with terrorism being brought up in Northern Ireland and still living here...

the biggest piece of advice i would give would be NEVER let the bastards win, just get on with your life as you would normally do. Terrorists are out to create mayhem and anarchy in order to cause the governments to give concessions to them...i suppose the IRA and the islamic militants had the same goal...that they are fighting over land..in the end the people of Northern Ireland never let the terrorists win, after murdering over 3000 people, including people i know friends parents etc...they gave up realising they couldnt defeat the people...and even this week they have given over their weapons...so thats the good news...

the only thing i would fear is that the islamic terrorists use suicide bombers, which u can never plan for....at least in a sick way the IRA gave warnings the odd time..

but the thai people are very much similar to the northern irish in their attitiudes and laid back style....they are strong and i would advise them NEVER to give in to these cowardly bastards....NEVER..!

just get on with your life as normal...

[Nam Kao]

When the real Jihadists come into Thailand they will have no fear of bombing

Bangkok etc. The amatures are the ones at work now in the southern provinces.

The Pro's want maximum effect and will slip away from retaliation.

I think the biggest blow to tourism and the economy will come when they start

their usual modis operendi of kidnapping foreigners and the subsequent videos.

Look no father than what happened in Indonesia, 400,000 Buddhist/Christians

(Infidels) murdered.

Edited October 1, 2005 by Nam Kao

[Heng]

Unless the bad guys are climbing over the walls, and my 10-11 year old nephews and nieces are having to pick them off with .22s with scopes, I think staying put in Bangkok would be the way to go. If things really became untenable, it'd simply be move to a spot not as "hot" such as Chiang Rai or Nong Kai.... Galasin and Suphan would be options as well. Some family in HK, some in Singapore, wouldn't be hard to get set up in either place. And there's always home on the other side of the planet, Texas.

[Slim Chance]

I would invade a non-threatening country with plenty of oil, bomb the population to smithereens and start a major civil/holy war of epic porportions.

Then I would chase a poor brazilian immigrant on his way to work, down into the subway and blow his head off.

These are the ways enlightened societies deal with terrorists.

And, oh yeah, I would spout a lot of mindless rhetorical B.S. about never giving in to terrorism and pound my chest a lot. That would do a lot of good. Right.

[Heng]

[opothai]

I would invade a non-threatening country with plenty of oil, bomb the population to smithereens and start a major civil/holy war of epic porportions.

Then I would chase a poor brazilian immigrant on his way to work, down into the subway and blow his head off.

These are the ways enlightened societies deal with terrorists.

And, oh yeah, I would spout a lot of mindless rhetorical B.S. about never giving in to terrorism and pound my chest a lot. That would do a lot of good. Right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wow great post

that adds a lot to this thread well done

[lovejoy]

growing up in northern ireland was very strange

from i was old enough to watch tv, every single day there was a bomb a shooting a beating someone getting burned out of there house or being told they have 24 hours to leave the country,so this didnt seem out of the ordinary for me or people my age .waking up in the morning and opening the curtins and someone with a gun standing looking in was not even wierd for me. it didnt stop me from doing anything or going anywhere,not because of a no surrender attitude, that was life.as a result of this i grew up with really no value for a human life because it was taken so often and all around me(7 of my friends before i was 16)it wasnt untill i visited different countrys that i saw that the way we lived wasnt normal

i am very proud to be irish as most irish people are but i am in no hurry to return there to live. i will always be irish and it is always home but the memories of growing up and what has happened stop me from going there.its ok saying life will carry on as normal but does it really?

there are 3.5 million people in ireland and 17.5 million irish people around the world!

i dont think moving away was surrendering but a better quality of life!. i think thats why when you meet irish people around the world in general they are happy and up for a laugh.they have escaped to a better life and enjoy it every day

september 11th here in new york opened the worlds eyes to terrorism and to some extent gave a terrorist more power as the whole world is now looking over there shoulder

but i believe that if you spend your life afriad of dieing living is no fun

IMHO dont comit yourself to carrying on or not surrendering but to having the best life you possibly can where ever that may be.

[Narachon]

Same as we do in London - and did when it was the IRA. Get on with my life.

Same here

Same here too...

[Pie Boy]

I would invade a non-threatening country with plenty of oil, bomb the population to smithereens and start a major civil/holy war of epic porportions.

Then I would chase a poor brazilian immigrant on his way to work, down into the subway and blow his head off.

These are the ways enlightened societies deal with terrorists.

And, oh yeah, I would spout a lot of mindless rhetorical B.S. about never giving in to terrorism and pound my chest a lot. That would do a lot of good. Right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Plot lost slimchance I think and a very poor referance to events that led to the unfortunate death of Jean Menezez.

[kayo]

I would invade a non-threatening country with plenty of oil, bomb the population to smithereens and start a major civil/holy war of epic porportions.

......And, oh yeah, I would spout a lot of mindless rhetorical B.S. about never giving in to terrorism and pound my chest a lot. That would do a lot of good. Right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wow great post

that adds a lot to this thread well done

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I thought it added a very pleasant bit of remarkably ON TOPIC humour to an otherwise serious thread.

Your post, on the other hand, well... Let´s make a list:

1. Was criticising in a non constructive manner.

2. Was not even posted with the slightest suggestion of humour (to at least "lighten up" the criticism.

3. Tells us you are insecure.

4. Tells us you like to dig your own grave and look silly.

5. Really quite makes you look like a &lt;deleted&gt;.

Yours Truly,

Klazy Kayo the Krown.

PS: For the benefit of Opothai, and the mod for this thread, please note that the above finger pointer has not made one post regarding the OP, and had he/she done so, I owuld not have typed a word. As the above is his/her ONLY post on this thread, i feel it is not innapropriate..

PPS: In a revision of my earlier post... WHat would I do.... Have a drink.

[ThaiPauly]

Good to see we are all United on one matter then.

No Surrender to Terroism!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you define terrorism? Would it include the abduction and murder of activist lawyers or the heartless treatment of prisoners(mostly innocent one presumes) resulting in hundreds of deaths?I have no doubt there are highly undesirable outsiders seeking to stir up trouble in the South, but the severity of the current problems can be largely be credited to decades of neglect, arrogance and incompetence on the part of a succession of Bangkok based administrations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boris old chap, I really think you are missing the point of my post. There is not much I can personally do about kidnappings, individual politically motivated murders etc, The point is what would us Farangs do if our life/families felt threatened?

A great proportion of TV Members live here, its where we call HOME now, have families that we care about. Would you put your Children in harms way if yu had a choice?

On the post about the Bali Bombings yesterday a few have already said that they were planning a trip there but won't be going now because of the fear of terroists.

Nothing wrong with that IMHO, that is excersing caution

[robitusson]

The traffic is far more dangerous than any terrorist attack. I'm not being glib either. It'd be much more likely to get knocked down by some SUV driver chatting on her mobile while watching the tv on the dashboard. We've all seen that I'm sure.

[ilyushin]

Good to see we are all United on one matter then.

No Surrender to Terroism!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you define terrorism? Would it include the abduction and murder of activist lawyers or the heartless treatment of prisoners(mostly innocent one presumes) resulting in hundreds of deaths?I have no doubt there are highly undesirable outsiders seeking to stir up trouble in the South, but the severity of the current problems can be largely be credited to decades of neglect, arrogance and incompetence on the part of a succession of Bangkok based administrations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't agree more.

[deus ex machina]

Reviewing the history of terrorism one cannot easily escape the conclusion that, like temptation, one endures less suffering if one simply yields to it at the first available opportunity.By adopting this philosophy, my own progress in Bangkok has been less painful but I am not sure its application would meet with any acceptance by the tub thumpers in this forum who are content to churn out the same old cliches.Terrorism inevitably brings its own reward not least because its use publicises an oft ignored injustice.

No surrender indeed! One wonders what planet some posters are living on.

[The_Moog]

If I was caught up in a terrorist incident in Bangkok, severed limbs and decapitated heads flying around me, the first thing I would do is sit down, preferably on a spot not aflame, and think.....

"What is terrorism? How should I define it?"

[Old Croc]

If I was caught up in a terrorist incident in Bangkok, severed limbs and decapitated heads flying around me, the first thing I would do is sit down, preferably on a spot not aflame, and think.....

"What is terrorism? How should I define it?"

Do you grow some good herbs in that garden full of butterflies Little Bear?

[mpdkorat]

I would invade a non-threatening country with plenty of oil, bomb the population to smithereens and start a major civil/holy war of epic porportions.

Then I would chase a poor brazilian immigrant on his way to work, down into the subway and blow his head off.

These are the ways enlightened societies deal with terrorists.

And, oh yeah, I would spout a lot of mindless rhetorical B.S. about never giving in to terrorism and pound my chest a lot. That would do a lot of good. Right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Terrorism is very difficult to deal with, finding the right balance is just about impossible. I'm not really sure why the troubles in Ireland are coming to an end. Is it just that they have had enough of blowing each other up?

The officers who shot the innocent Brazilian believed they were dealing with a suicide bomber, believing this they continued to chase him onto the platform jumped on him then shot him several times in the head, which is the way they were trained to do. In my humble opinion I think these guys were hero's. They will have to live with the fact more than anyone that a mistake was made.

[Indo-Siam]

Good to see we are all United on one matter then.

No Surrender to Terroism!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you define terrorism? Would it include the abduction and murder of activist lawyers or the heartless treatment of prisoners(mostly innocent one presumes) resulting in hundreds of deaths?I have no doubt there are highly undesirable outsiders seeking to stir up trouble in the South, but the severity of the current problems can be largely be credited to decades of neglect, arrogance and incompetence on the part of a succession of Bangkok based administrations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The above is an incorrect analogy. In order to be an equivalent act of terrorism, the correct corresponding scenarios would NOT be abducting and murdering an activist lawyer - it would be if the Thai government went out and abducted and murdered dozens of randomly selected Thai Muslim lawyers - and also Muslim doctors and Muslim police officers - who had nothing to do with the Government's legal differences. It would not be mistreating lawbreakers who had gathered to try to intimidate police into freeing murder suspects - it would be go around to Muslim shops and businesses to randomly beat to death Muslim citizens going about their daily lives in a lawful manner.

The Islamic terrorists don't attack those who have treated them badly - they attack tecahers, and rubber workers, and shopkeepers, and foreign tourists.

The Muslim terrorist apologists always bring up incorrect historical analogies, trying to make the pointless slaughter of innocent people justified. "A thousand years ago, someone in your ancestry did something bad to my ancestors - and we today are bound by our mindless devotion to some ancient flawed text document to seek endless revenge." How do you "reason" with that?

If terrorists attack in Bangkok, I would do whatever the Thai government asked the people to do, to assist them in preventing further attacks. If this meant personal inconvenience, then I would endure the inconvenience. If it meant suspension of some civil liberties, then I would live with it. If it meant looking the other way while the government brutally extracted information from terrorist suspects, to hunt down their associates - well, I wouldn't particularly like that, but I'd learn to live with it. In about a nanosecond.

Another thing that no one seems to ever bring up: There are great examples - respected by the entire world - of great protest leaders who led movements that changed some of the world's largest societies - without butchering innocents. People like Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Lec Walensa, and whoever the guy with the shopping bags was who stared down the tank at Tienanmin Square. It is total &lt;deleted&gt; to say that violence is the only way to bring about change.

I ask this of the Muslim apologists: Please outline for me the name and situation of one single Muslim leader during the past 100 years who lead a peaceful movement to better the conditions of his followers - and simply stuck to the peaceful path - the persistent path that took the people I mentioned a lifetime of effort. I already know about all the explododopes who try to change things in one second, after losing patience with the pace of change between their first and second times shaving their chin stubble. I assume that there must have been at least a couple of world-class Muslim leaders of long-term, peaceful movements to bring about better conditions. Now is your chance to educate me - and the other readers of this thread.

Indo-Siam

[craigt3365]

I ask this of the Muslim apologists: Please outline for me the name and situation of one single Muslim leader during the past 100 years who lead a peaceful movement to better the conditions of his followers - and simply stuck to the peaceful path - the persistent path that took the people I mentioned a lifetime of effort. I already know about all the explododopes who try to change things in one second, after losing patience with the pace of change between their first and second times shaving their chin stubble. I assume that there must have been at least a couple of world-class Muslim leaders of long-term, peaceful movements to bring about better conditions. Now is your chance to educate me - and the other readers of this thread.

===========================

I would love to be educated on this also...good post...

[zaz]

I ask this of the Muslim apologists:  Please outline for me the name and situation of one single Muslim leader during the past 100 years who lead a peaceful movement to better the conditions of his followers - and simply stuck to the peaceful path - the persistent path that took the people I mentioned a lifetime of effort.  I already know about all the explododopes who try to change things in one second, after losing patience with the pace of change between their first and second times shaving their chin stubble.  I assume that there must have been at least a couple of world-class Muslim leaders of long-term, peaceful movements to bring about better conditions.  Now is your chance to educate me - and the other readers of this thread. 

===========================

I would love to be educated on this also...good post...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes a very good point indeed. However, for the handful of peaceful non-Muslim activists you mentioned (and I'm sure there are more) there have been far more numerous barbaric sadists that have been prevalent in Western society over the years (and currently in existence) which would out-number many times over the Muslim equivalents and who have carried out acts which are at least just as dispicable and barbaric if not more.

Still I'm in no way defending the violent and I get the point you are making. Heck, I myself would like to know about any peaceful Muslim activists too, there's got have been some in the past!

Nevertheless, whether you believe it or not Islam has always taught peaceful methods so what does that tell us about those people who resort to non-peaceful ways? Should we blame the person or Islam?

Another point is, in religious history God has also always disgraced those people who lost their ways and in some ways I believe that Muslims are being disgraced today because we have severely diverted from the correct ways of Islam.

[AlexLah]

Hi Indo-Siam and other readers,

I think your post contains a few good remarks/questions, however please do not forget that Islam is a peacefull religion in origin.

'Umar who marched on foot at the end of the Muslim army into Jerusalem even ordered the protection of Christian sites.

My question would be: when or where it started to go wrong?

I have some ideas but would like to hear yours.

KR,

Alexlah

[craigt3365]

zaz: I agree with you! There are crazies everywhere. In every religion. I am personally not associated with any religion, but believe in treating people fairly and equally. I don't care about a persons race, color or religion...there is no excuse for harming innocent people. Heck, I am even against the death penalty! If somebody does something that deserves the death penalty, they have a sickness in their mind that needs to be treated...not put to death. Though the latter would probably be the best in some cases!

[cobra]

We'll clear the debris, mourn the fallen, and carry on with business,

And yes, well hunt the bastards down with a passion, and keep an even more weary eye on the suspicious, even if their innocent, This is the world we now live in.

But I'll continue to frequent my familiar and comfortable establishments as usual,

[deus ex machina]

I ask this of the Muslim apologists:  Please outline for me the name and situation of one single Muslim leader during the past 100 years who lead a peaceful movement to better the conditions of his followers - and simply stuck to the peaceful path - the persistent path that took the people I mentioned a lifetime of effort.  I already know about all the explododopes who try to change things in one second, after losing patience with the pace of change between their first and second times shaving their chin stubble.  I assume that there must have been at least a couple of world-class Muslim leaders of long-term, peaceful movements to bring about better conditions.  Now is your chance to educate me - and the other readers of this thread. 

===========================

I would love to be educated on this also...good post...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since it seems important to you to have some sort of marker to which you may wish to cleave in order to anchor your premise, perhaps it may be more illuminating if one was to turn the question around, just a tad.In the 20th century how many holocausts were caused by non muslims and perhaps we could have your estimate of the eventual casuality list?By your own admission, you are deficient on the education front but even the most obtuse among the forum followers might be able to assist in your calculations.Somehow, I fear that the answer might be limited to the number of fingers available.Ho Hum.

[meemiathai]

The traffic is far more dangerous than any terrorist attack. I'm not being glib either. It'd be much more likely to get knocked down by some SUV driver chatting on her mobile while watching the tv on the dashboard. We've all seen that I'm sure.

Although I can understand people thinking the traffic in Bangkok is dangerous, I have personally always felt safe. I watch every step I take. I always look for possible danger around me when I am walking in the streets. I usually use taxis to travel around. If I am in a taxi where the driver is driving dangerously, I ask him to slow down. If he continues, I pay him some extra baht. But if those God's children are trying to hunt my head or to use bombs to blow me apart, I will feel very unsafe and nervous cause ###### knows where they are coming from!

So I guess if those terroists indeed do strike Bangkok, I would just have to pack my things and go back to Iraq.

Edited October 2, 2005 by meemiathai

[Neeranam]

I leave in a flash if they started bombing Khon Kaen. If they start bombing Bangkok, I really don't understand why all you guys would stay, all this "never let the terrorists win" crap. It's not even your country.