My I-Phone Is Watching Me...

[LadyHeather]

Researchers Pete Warden and Alasdair Allan have discovered that iPhones and 3G iPads regularly record your position into a hidden file called consolidated.db. Ever since you upgraded to iOS 4, your device has been storing a long list of latitude-longitude coordinates and timestamps. The coordinates aren't always exact, but there are typically tens of thousands of data points. The location is likely being determined by cell-tower triangulation, either triggered by traveling between cells or activity on the device itself. Furthermore, all this data is being stored across backups, and even device migrations, according to O'Reilly.The presence of this data on your iPhone, your iPad, and your backups has serious privacy implications. To make matters worse, the file with said data is unencrypted and unprotected, and it's on any machine you've synced with your iOS device. If your device is stolen, the perpetrator can jailbreak it and easily access the file in question, and will be able to see where you've been over the last year, since iOS 4 was released.

http://www.techspot.com/news/43408-apple-tracks-your-location-in-ios-4-without-your-permission.html

[GM1955]

I watch you all the time with a pair of high powered binoculars.

[Tywais]

Your iPhone, iPad recording your every move? So

Summary:

At the Where 2.0 conference the discovery of the day is that your iPhone and iPad is tracking your every move. You willingly allow your movement to be tracked every day anyway.

Ever since iOS 4 arrived, your device has been storing a long list of locations and time stamps. We’re not sure why Apple is gathering this data, but it’s clearly intentional, as the database is being restored across backups, and even device migrations.

There are obviously security issues here—especially since the data is unencrypted and unprotected. This video outlines the find: See at source ZDnet.com

[nullx8]

what a bullshit ... turn off Location services and you are good to go.

of course without this the phone will be unable to geotagg images and do lots of other location based features.

the database is described in developer sheets well, and as described it is a part of personal data, which will be backed up as well .. same as contacts, calendar entries, sms and call history.

so you basically can write exact the same horror storry about your call history and sms conversations is being blah blah ..

[kwestroc]

Guys, there is a free package in Cydia that continuously cleans this file. It's called untrackerd if you are interested.

[sambosoul]

come on guys, if I ever lose my iPhone I've got other things to worry about, but not my location history. Who is really interested in some random data from a random person? If it would be a CEO or a superstar, ok. But there's nothing a normal person has to be afraid of (in my opinion)

[lomatopo]

From iTunes Terms and Conditions, which presumably most iPhone users have agreed to:

We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behavior and improve our products, services, and advertising.

--and--

To provide location-based services on Apple products, Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your Apple computer or device. This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. For example, we may share geographic location with application providers when you opt in to their location services.

What amazes me is that this information gets transmitted to AAPL every 12 hours so I assume users have to pay, as part of a data plan, to transmit this data.

[Crushdepth]

Telling an app where you are is one thing, but silently recording where you've been is creepy. I know Steve Jobs needs to Tend His Flock but sending this kind of data back to Apple is pretty poor IMHO, TOS or not.

[rogerdee123]

Telling an app where you are is one thing, but silently recording where you've been is creepy. I know Steve Jobs needs to Tend His Flock but sending this kind of data back to Apple is pretty poor IMHO, TOS or not.

Google/Android does the same thing. :jap:

[Crushdepth]

Google/Android does the same thing.

If you *choose* to enable the Latitude service. It doesn't sneaky do it behind your back. And you actually get to use the data yourself and can *choose* to share it with selected people if you want.

No comparison!

[rogerdee123]

Google/Android does the same thing.

If you *choose* to enable the Latitude service. It doesn't sneaky do it behind your back. And you actually get to use the data yourself and can *choose* to share it with selected people if you want.

No comparison!

Apple and Google are using smartphones running their software to build gigantic databases for location-based services, according to new research following the Guardian's revelations that iPhones and devices running Android collect location data about owners' movements.

Read all about it .... link below

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/22/iphone-android-location-based-services

[lomatopo]

what a bullshit ... turn off Location services and you are good to go.

It sounds as though you are mis-informed?

IPhone Stored Location in Test Even if Disabled

By JENNIFER VALENTINO-DEVRIES

Apple Inc.'s iPhone is collecting and storing location information even when location services are turned off, according to a test conducted by The Wall Street Journal.

The location data appear to be collected using cellphone towers and Wi-Fi access points near a user's phone and don't appear to be transmitted back to Apple. Apple didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

Still, the fact that the iPhone is collecting and storing location data—even when location services are turned off—is likely to renew questions about how well users are informed about the data being gathered by their cellphones. The fact that the iPhone stores months' worth of location data was disclosed by two researchers last week.

Again, AAPL clearly discloses their intention to track precise geographic location and share that information, albeit without your personal details (hopefully), in their terms and conditions, so I fail see what the uproar is here? Also, service providers (AT&T, Verizon and WiFi SPs) are complicit in this arrangement as they provide the location information to the iPhone, which is evidently stored in this unencrypted file and then the user has to pay data charges to transmit it to AAPL. This has the potential to be incredibly valuable information so hopefully AAPL are making some revenue on this.

[lomatopo]

Telling an app where you are is one thing, but silently recording where you've been is creepy. I know Steve Jobs needs to Tend His Flock but sending this kind of data back to Apple is pretty poor IMHO, TOS or not.

Google/Android does the same thing. :jap:

I think you can opt in or out?

[nikster]

There's quite a bit of confusion here. There are two completely different things: Location Services, and the database of nearby towers that's on the phone. The Guardian article linked above describes this pretty accurately.

Location services: if you enable location based services, then location data about the nearby cell towers is sent to Apple / Google, but it's anonymized, e.g. they don't know you, or your device ID. There is a way to opt out on both devices, and it's part of the user agreement. So far so good.

I think it's fair - they get to use that data, but in return we get live traffic updates and better maps / location detection. This has been well known for a while and didn't cause the current "scandal".

Second, the database on the phone: It's apparently a mechanism to cache cell tower information that both Google and Apple use. The problem is, Apple's cache never gets cleared so in effect the phone collects info about which cell towers you were near constantly and continuously. It's not very accurate by the way - nobody can tell where exactly you were, but you can see the general vicinity. I did it on my phone and got a nice graph showing the USA and Thailand, pretty weird.

So this file is there, and it's creepy - but it never gets sent back to Apple. This one is just kept on the device, and I guess also copied to the computer with every backup. So if somebody breaks into your computer, or steals your phone, they can get that info.

Rumor has it that Apple's bug will be fixed in the near term, and that's what I'd expect, too. The location cache is probably important to save battery life so I have no issue with it -it just should clear out old entries....

Edit: I'd file the connection to location based advertising under "rumors" for now. Who knows. Maybe, maybe not, nearly any kind of information can be used in advertising in some fashion....the day that location based ads appear on my phone is the day I return it. I imagine there will be some opt in stuff for the groupon crowd...

[Crushdepth]

The Apple file (allegedly) records location for the last 12 months, not indefinitely but bad enough. The Android one is the last 50 cell towers/wifi points which would probably get overwritten several times a day if you move more than a few hundred metres, in Bangkok anyway.

At this point nobody has confirmed if the file goes back to Apple or not (there is an alleged response from Steve Jobs of dubious authenticity that "no it doesn't but the android one does". Several police forces are apparently aware of the file and using it. God knows what our sensitive new-age commie friends in China are doing with it.

As far as I am concerned, the whole location tracking thing is unacceptable. I guess the Android list is understandable, but I really wouldn't want much more than that recorded. You have to wonder how much info the phone companies keep.

And if anyone has any doubt, I can assure you that the Thai government can and does abuse the phones of people they are interested in. Don't imagine that you have any 'rights' to speak of, nobody gives a sh1t about that.

[kwestroc]

http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=14859

[manarak]

excellent, more dirty stuff uncovered.

seriously, how much in % of the governments' or big corporations' dirty stuff has been uncovered and how much is still hidden - what do you think?

The reason I don't buy tin foil hats is because they don't protect.

[nikster]

Word from Apple is in:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_qa.html

Steve Jobs and other executives in an interview:

http://mobilized.allthingsd.com/20110427/qa-jobs-and-apple-execs-on-tracking-down-the-facts-about-iphones-and-location/

Bottom line is: Apple is not tracking you- they are anonymizing the location data they're sending back to the servers, and the only reason they are sending the location data in the first place is to create a global cache of cell tower locations in order to speed up GPS location tracking.

The file kept on your phone is a subset of the global cache and as people have speculated before the fact that it gets that large is a programming error and will be fixed in the next iOS update.

From the interview it seems like Apple is looking forward to a probe by congress in part because they're convinced that they are doing *much* better than the competition, which may no anonymize data before sending it back....

[manarak]

Word from Apple is in:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_qa.html

Steve Jobs and other executives in an interview:

http://mobilized.allthingsd.com/20110427/qa-jobs-and-apple-execs-on-tracking-down-the-facts-about-iphones-and-location/

Bottom line is: Apple is not tracking you- they are anonymizing the location data they're sending back to the servers, and the only reason they are sending the location data in the first place is to create a global cache of cell tower locations in order to speed up GPS location tracking.

The file kept on your phone is a subset of the global cache and as people have speculated before the fact that it gets that large is a programming error and will be fixed in the next iOS update.

From the interview it seems like Apple is looking forward to a probe by congress in part because they're convinced that they are doing *much* better than the competition, which may no anonymize data before sending it back....

a programming error... sure!

and the data sent to the servers also doesn't contain any "anonymous" serial number or device identifyer or whatever.

do they then have a way to prevent redundant data?

I don't believe a word...

[lomatopo]

There's quite a bit of confusion here. There are two completely different things: Location Services, and the database of nearby towers that's on the phone. The Guardian article linked above describes this pretty accurately.

Location services: if you enable location based services, then location data about the nearby cell towers is sent to Apple / Google, but it's anonymized, e.g. they don't know you, or your device ID. There is a way to opt out on both devices, and it's part of the user agreement. So far so good.

I think it's fair - they get to use that data, but in return we get live traffic updates and better maps / location detection. This has been well known for a while and didn't cause the current "scandal".

Second, the database on the phone: It's apparently a mechanism to cache cell tower information that both Google and Apple use. The problem is, Apple's cache never gets cleared so in effect the phone collects info about which cell towers you were near constantly and continuously. It's not very accurate by the way - nobody can tell where exactly you were, but you can see the general vicinity. I did it on my phone and got a nice graph showing the USA and Thailand, pretty weird.

So this file is there, and it's creepy - but it never gets sent back to Apple. This one is just kept on the device, and I guess also copied to the computer with every backup. So if somebody breaks into your computer, or steals your phone, they can get that info.

Rumor has it that Apple's bug will be fixed in the near term, and that's what I'd expect, too. The location cache is probably important to save battery life so I have no issue with it -it just should clear out old entries....

Edit: I'd file the connection to location based advertising under "rumors" for now. Who knows. Maybe, maybe not, nearly any kind of information can be used in advertising in some fashion....the day that location based ads appear on my phone is the day I return it. I imagine there will be some opt in stuff for the groupon crowd...

I love positive sentiment like this from customer/advocates. This is why I continue to hold AAPL. $400 here we come, and hoping for continued health for Mr. Jobs. (Some recent/current inside selling is a little disconcerting; I hope they are being forthright with the health situation.)

And now we have a white iPhone, and even some more iPad2's, so all is good. Keep buying iStuff, please.

We've come so far from Ridley Scott's 1984 Superbowl commercial where AAPL was the underdog fighting against "Big Brother".

[rogerdee123]

Well we all know that Google tracks all your searches (Google search) ... and we also know that if you have GMail and forget to sign out, google tracks your website history (maybe this is possible anyway even if you sign out and didn't delete your cookies).... and it would make sense for them to store all this data under your IP address (or perhaps your machine ID). Now if your phone is also sending your locations to google (and you also connect your phone to your computer, tying together yout IP address and possibly your phone ID and your PC machine ID) ..... it's probably not a big stretch for them to connect all those dots. And probably not very difficult, indeed dam_n easy, for them to identify you also (if they wanted to).

So I think this is what Jobs was alluding to in his first reaction to the accusation that Apple was tracking people ... he said "No we're not" ... .... but he also said "yes they are" when the journalist implied google wasn't tracking their OS (phone) users.

I don't have evidence or insider knowledge about either Google or Apple. This is just what I think. It seems logical to me. And it's probably goes a lot deeper into your day-to-day activities than I've imagined or assumed.

In any case, it's good this is coming to light and out in the open and perhaps maybe in the coming weeks and months we will know the extent of who is doing what to what extent to whom ... so the average guy and gal on the street will be a little less naieve about their "privacy" on the web and in the airways with their sophisticated mobile phones. Frankly almost everything is being broadcast out in the open.

But also .... phone companies (like AIS, DTAC, etc) have had for years the capacity to track any kind of phone that uses their cell phone towers. And our own foreign phone carrier (Thailand, US, Europe etc) can also tract you here in Thailand via the cell phone towers you use.. Are they doing it? Who knows? I've always assumed they are collecting that data and storing it somewhere. Whether anyone is using it and for what purpose is another question.

I don't know why everyone is so surprised that mobile phones have the capability to track you ... especially if you have GPS capacity and have it turned on, in which case they can triangulate and pinpoint you a lot more accurately than to the nearest cell phone tower..

However unlike some posters here, I don't think this is a Govt conspiracy. This is profit driven. But this doesn't make it any less obtrusive or threatening.

Now in regard to the more repressive Govts interested in identifying their citizen-enemies, yes indeed all this data would in quite handy for them. Would these big profiteers like Microsoft, Google, or Apple appease a repressive Govt like China's if there were a big profit potential? hmmmm ... what do you think?

[nikster]

No, Apple or Google wouldn't hand over data to China. They haven't in the past, why should they now. Google got locked out of China even, and is losing a lot of money on that.

I am way more concerned about the US government in that respect, as any US corporation will bend over, and often without court order, when the government comes calling - the NSA asks, and it receives. Or a Senator calls Amazon.com and takes down Wikileaks. That's how weak Democracy is these days.

BTW if you don't want Apple to anonymously track your location, turn off location services. I don't think it gets any clearer than this. Android might have a similar setting, I am not sure.

Google is tracking everyone and everything with cookies, I don't think they use the IP address. I mean - I sure hope not! Search data is sensitive! Nevertheless I recall there was an article recently that showed that anyone can be identified with a pretty good accuracy just from their cookies. Everything you do on the internet leaves a trail. Companies who own a large part of that trail - e.g., Google - know the most about you. But there are anonymizing browsers - both Safari and Chrome have a private browsing option. So all is not lost...

[nikster]

New info: ONE magazine from germany has decided to research this location database themselves rather than simply copying and repeating what the guardian reporters thought they'd found out.

The results leave me flabbergasted. It looks like once again this whole "scandal" is nothing but media trolling. Article in German here: http://www.heise.de/mobil/meldung/iPhone-Positionsdaten-enthalten-kein-vollstaendiges-Bewegungsprofil-1233127.html

The conclusion is that the database of WLAN hotspots and mobile towers does in fact not track your movement because:

- towers and hotspots that you never came close to are in the database

- time stamps are set on the last update from the sever side which means that 100s of entries have the same time stamp. It's not the time you were there, its the time the info was refreshed from the server

The result is that your phone was in many places "at the same time" and some of those places are one you've never actually been to.

It's certainly a far cry from tracking.

[lomatopo]

New info: ONE magazine from germany has decided to research this location database themselves rather than simply copying and repeating what the guardian reporters thought they'd found out.

The results leave me flabbergasted. It looks like once again this whole "scandal" is nothing but media trolling. Article in German here: http://www.heise.de/mobil/meldung/iPhone-Positionsdaten-enthalten-kein-vollstaendiges-Bewegungsprofil-1233127.html

The conclusion is that the database of WLAN hotspots and mobile towers does in fact not track your movement because:

- towers and hotspots that you never came close to are in the database

- time stamps are set on the last update from the sever side which means that 100s of entries have the same time stamp. It's not the time you were there, its the time the info was refreshed from the server

The result is that your phone was in many places "at the same time" and some of those places are one you've never actually been to.

It's certainly a far cry from tracking.

Wow, this is bad news for iAds. If they can't precisely and accurately locate the iPhone/iPad then they are misleading potential advertisers. (I think we all know that they can and do, but perhaps they are not storing this on the phone or in iTunes?) But as in past controversies maybe AAPL are not being as forthright as they could be? They never seem to handle PR problems very well, and never seem prepared to handle them. With a long history of obfuscation, and even paranoia, I think they need to come completely clean on all the details of the data they obtain, keep, store, sell, share, transmit regarding customers' iProducts.

[nullx8]

iAds working because of this just fine.

anyway ... the data collected is extremly inacurate. it simple helps the phone to get a fix in covered areas or even without any gps recieption.

i just open my database on the phone and found 57890 WiFi Locations (most of them i have never been (located in the US))

61203 Cell Tower Locations (about 80% of them i have not been ever)

160696 Positions

the REAL Tracking Data is stored in boundary informations related to the cell the phone may in.

by this way the phone "find" its own location extremely quickly by simply check for the Cell id in the database and get the boudaries.

they are not even related to real cell bounds ... apple just use a Grid to organize this data better.

here is a screenshoot of Bangkok ... (my home is on it ... but the position is not acurate at all ... and ia have been long enough there to get a acuarte fix)

the other image shows a greater view .. there are locations i have been .. and also alot of location which where simply "calculated" based on geroreference data and cell tower informations.

long story short sense ....

this feature helps the phone to be extremly fast and acurate in location based features.

its a tool .. and iam happy it have it .. (this tool is a reason why i have this device)

besides .. even without my iPhone .. everyone can see where i am .. haha

[nikster]

New info: ONE magazine from germany has decided to research this location database themselves rather than simply copying and repeating what the guardian reporters thought they'd found out.

The results leave me flabbergasted. It looks like once again this whole "scandal" is nothing but media trolling. Article in German here: http://www.heise.de/mobil/meldung/iPhone-Positionsdaten-enthalten-kein-vollstaendiges-Bewegungsprofil-1233127.html

The conclusion is that the database of WLAN hotspots and mobile towers does in fact not track your movement because:

- towers and hotspots that you never came close to are in the database

- time stamps are set on the last update from the sever side which means that 100s of entries have the same time stamp. It's not the time you were there, its the time the info was refreshed from the server

The result is that your phone was in many places "at the same time" and some of those places are one you've never actually been to.

It's certainly a far cry from tracking.

Wow, this is bad news for iAds. If they can't precisely and accurately locate the iPhone/iPad then they are misleading potential advertisers. (I think we all know that they can and do....

Huh??

I think you're confusing the database that caused this "outrage" with the location services which Apple is allowed to share, but which can be turned off any time, and which according to Apple they are not actually sharing. I mean, the phone only gets a location fix if you use the maps app anyway... I am not sure what iAds has to do with it? If they are location targeted ads, then the app which is showing these ads must get explicit permission from the user to use the location. There is no way around that, technically.

The database doesn't contain traceable info. It's not Apple who said this, but one of the best - or, rather, the only actually good - computer magazine I know. I've searched for something of similar quality in the USA but it just doesn't exist. Heise.de and the c't Magazine are actual techies who will do their own research on stuff. They're very old fashioned - they'll test things out in the lab, they'll devise their own benchmarks, and they won't trust anything the manufacturers say. A bit like Anandtech or tomshardware, only more thorough.

[lomatopo]

Thank you for your loyal brand support. We long time AAPL shareholders appreciate the blind faith, brand loyalty and service loyal advocates like you provide, gratis. Customers like you add ~ $20/share, IMO.

Now as to why AAPL depends on a German publication to provide their sole technical defense one can only guess? Presumably that's your idea of good PR?

My point about iAds is that AAPL claims they can precisely target customers for location-based ads and services. That means you can be located to 50 m ~ 150 m.

I think you are saying that AAPL is a beneficial, caring corporation which values its customers privacy and that they would never divulge any customer details unless the customer agreed to that arrangement. I am saying that by agreeing to the iTunes T's and C's you agreed to AAPL's terms which allow them to share your location details. This would include a precise location history of indeterminate length.

As a shareholder I support this activity as it will lead to increased revenue. The inherent quid pro quo is that customers will gain access to valuable information and service, albeit at a fee, while AAPL and their partners will generate incremental revenue. I believe most customers will sacrifice any perceived compromise in personal privacy for the value-added services, provided AAPL and VZ do not over-charge or under-deliver.

[nullx8]

My point about iAds is that AAPL claims they can precisely target customers for location-based ads and services. That means you can be located to 50 m ~ 150

that is correct, the topic is about the database helping the phone to get quicker a correct location.

So the iAd subsystems are in fact able to locate you.

As long the location service is active for the app displaying it, if not the grid-based location is used which is in the bounds of the prestored data OR the cell data (more wide)

Apps using location based informations will "enable" the locaton service on the phone to find its location

iAd will do the same and location relevant ads will be displayed.

[rogerdee123]

Yeah .... imagine ... as you were cruising up the street, you could tap "som tam kai yang" on your iPhone App and the phone would figure out where you are and up pops google maps in street map mode and pin-points the som tam stall and shows you the way there.

Apple sell's the user the phone and the App ... and the som tam sellor pays apple a monthly fee to keep it's location on the App's map. ... or it could be sidewalk shoe repair men, freelancer, or massage parlor or whatever ;^)

Great new business plan for Apple :jap:

[Crushdepth]

Yeah .... imagine ... as you were cruising up the street, you could tap "som tam kai yang" on your iPhone App and the phone would figure out where you are and up pops google maps in street map mode and pin-points the som tam stall and shows you the way there.

Google Maps already does exactly this, on Android anyway (I presume also for the iPhone). Check out the 'places' feature. Great for finding what restaurants are in the vicinity, wherever you are.

Re. Steve Jobs "explanation", I don't buy it. They aren't recording your location, just the location of everything around you that they use to estimate your location? Right.