How Old Is Too Old To Become A Dad?

[nocturn]

You are all youngsters. I had my first child (she's now 16 months old) at 58 years old (wife was then 35). Always wanted one but my first wife (married for over 30 years and together for 20 of those) did not for medical reasons.

My daughter is wonderful, my wife is a great mother and it's fantastic to have the time, money and energy to see her grow up in a secure and comfortable environment.

I have no problems if you think that is too old or disgusting or whatever. Thankfully there is no law against it and I plan on sticking around for a lot longer than the average western male (let alone Thai male) does in a relationship.

I do not think it is disgusting, it is entirely up to you. however my line of reasoning goes like this: when your daughter is 20, you will be a doddering geriatric if not dead. I personally wouldn't want that for my child.

I was 38 when my child was born and I saw her as my last chance, but I guess the numbers were more significant to me when I did the math.

She is 4 now. She is in my custody though her mother is very much in the picture. We were always greater friends than lovers and thankfully that continues.

I suppose it all comes down to what kind of parent you want to be -- I decided to be one without a zimmer frame, and I still think i am pushing that envelope.

I had older parents and while they were loving, supportive and more wonderful than i could have ever wished for, my father especially struggled to keep up emotionally, mentally and physically as i moved into my late teens. The gap was vast, and i was the eldest.

One blessing in disguise is that my parents both perished within 6 months of each other in my early 30's. Both were still vital and self-sufficient at the time of their respective deaths and I never had to make any nasty decisions regarding managed care, nor did i ever feel conflicted about the decisions i made in life. For that i am eternally grateful, because I would like to believe i would have been there had they needed it and not abandoned them in their old age. I am glad I never had to test that theory.

i thought i gave an honest, considered, reply to the topic, but am surprised that the entire post has been ignored.

[473geo]

I do not think it is disgusting, it is entirely up to you. however my line of reasoning goes like this: when your daughter is 20, you will be a doddering geriatric if not dead. I personally wouldn't want that for my child.

I was 38 when my child was born and I saw her as my last chance, but I guess the numbers were more significant to me when I did the math.

She is 4 now. She is in my custody though her mother is very much in the picture. We were always greater friends than lovers and thankfully that continues.

I suppose it all comes down to what kind of parent you want to be -- I decided to be one without a zimmer frame, and I still think i am pushing that envelope.

I had older parents and while they were loving, supportive and more wonderful than i could have ever wished for, my father especially struggled to keep up emotionally, mentally and physically as i moved into my late teens. The gap was vast, and i was the eldest.

One blessing in disguise is that my parents both perished within 6 months of each other in my early 30's. Both were still vital and self-sufficient at the time of their respective deaths and I never had to make any nasty decisions regarding managed care, nor did i ever feel conflicted about the decisions i made in life. For that i am eternally grateful, because I would like to believe i would have been there had they needed it and not abandoned them in their old age. I am glad I never had to test that theory.

i thought i gave an honest, considered, reply to the topic, but am surprised that the entire post has been ignored.

Yes you give a thoughtful response I have a couple of questions if I may......................................

Your expectations of your father?......from my teens onward I was a pretty good strong athlete, I would never have expected my father to even attempt to match me physically. Yet you appear to criticise your father because for this?

By my teens I felt my parents had passed on the base knowledge I needed for life.........I expected them not to understand my decisions, I didn't think they could, after all they were another generation......but they understood only too well, I guess like all parents they had been there before in their youth. When I insisted on making my own way, and mistakes, they stood by..... there to support if I failed.......but of course I did not know that at the time. So how did you become aware the age of your parents created a problem for you and how exactly did this manifest itself?

Emotionally? don't understand what you are getting at here could you explain?

I consider myself fortunate that at the time of illness and eventually death of my parents I had the opportunity to repay some of the kindness they had bestowed on me throughout my life.......my parents were not perfect in every way......I guess at times I was a real handful too......but now years later I understand the effort they poured into the upbringing of me and my siblings....they were truly two remarkable people

And if they had been 10 or 15 years older?........I doubt that would have been a concern..........parents supply the unconditional love that is not readily available elsewhere, no matter if they are 20 or 60.

[phuketrichard]

I fathered children at ages 30, 33, 42, 44 and 55

I'm on a roll and see no reason to stop now.

I didn't hang around to bring up any of the earlier 4, maybe 5th time lucky.

I have no problem fathering children and allowing other men to bring them up, it happens all over the world.

I'm also currently looking after another mans child, I don't see that as a problem either.

I also see no reason why women who have worked in the sex industry should not have children, just another business opportunity for the ladies.

What a terribale person u are>>>>> reagardless of the age u father a child you should be responsable for the child.

to father a child and leave is in my eyes criminal.

[mikecwm]

Had my first - and only one, when I was 47. His mother was 41 (not Thai - not that that should be relevant to this conversation). My thinking was that when he was 16 or so, I would be 63 and hopefully still active enough to do things with him. That was my main concern, and why I didn't want to leave it any later. Things turned out pretty good. He's amazed that he has an old dad, but one who still takes him rockclimbing and teaches him mountaineering and sailing. I think one of the important things is to accept being much older than most dads of teens, but still have a good sense of humour, still able to accept his friends and not complain about their taste in music / earings / tattoos (not yet - but he's talking about it). Just don't wait so long that you won't be there for when they're growing up. That's when they really need you.

Edited April 24, 2011 by mikecwm

[ozsamurai]

Anybodies capacity to raise a child is not entirely dependent on age, I have met some very immature 50 and 60 yrs olds in my time, still carrying on like twits in the bars. A child is not a selfish thing to "have", they are not like cars or a new pair of jeans to show off to the neighbours. If you are emotionally prepared, financially secure and have the time to devote to raising/guiding (not dragging up) an individual, then you can call yourself a Dad. The qualities aforementioned do not unfortunately appear magically in any age demographic, so what for some may take 30yrs may for others take 50. I grew up in a 'senior parent' family, 5 others before me born to my Mum in the A typical 20-30's, myself much later, I believe I have a much better grip on things over them and than most because of this. Admittedly Dad wasn't around throwing the football or such with me having been through a few heart attacks, but we share the intellectual bond, we built cars together, studied computers together. The world needs geeks just as much as it needs jocks....lol Are you ever too old? No. Young Dad's die all the time too you know.....just read TV. Rest in peace all those just last year who were taken from their families in their 30's.

Oz

[Nip]

You are all youngsters. I had my first child (she's now 16 months old) at 58 years old (wife was then 35). Always wanted one but my first wife (married for over 30 years and together for 20 of those) did not for medical reasons.

My daughter is wonderful, my wife is a great mother and it's fantastic to have the time, money and energy to see her grow up in a secure and comfortable environment.

I have no problems if you think that is too old or disgusting or whatever. Thankfully there is no law against it and I plan on sticking around for a lot longer than the average western male (let alone Thai male) does in a relationship.

I second that emotion!

[anterian]

Apart from the medical risks of aging and damaged sperm, there is the impact of a young child/baby on your habituated life style. Smell, noise, nightime disruptions, loss of sleep.

If you are contemplating this I would suggest a simple test, borrow a very young baby for a week, not just daytimes only. If you survive and have not changed youre mind, then you are ready to go

[RedQualia]

Lots of arm waiving in this thread trying to suggest that sperm in older males has chromosomal damage. The reports I've been able to find indicate this is not the case.

About 3 years ago...I underwent an operation at Bumrangrad Hospital in BKK, to get sperm from my tubes, rather than testicles.

IVF was in the wind..and a vasectomy a LONG time ago...was not likely to be reversible.

Cost?

60,000 baht.

result?

There are/were,to the best of my knowledge... 3 of my sperm in the fridge at the hospital.

(Or in somebody's coffee???)

The evidence is available to anyone who cares to Google "chromasome abnormalities in elderly men's sperm.'

OK, so I did just that: googled "chromosome abnormalities in elderly men's sperm.' Top search results suggest that you're incorrect. Here are two reports of NO increase in chromosomal damage:

http://humrep.oxford...7/1826.full.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1578542/

The second report states at the end that "These data would suggest that if a patient is making sperm, regardless of his age, there does not seem to be any increase in chromosomal abnormalities. However, in those patients who have arrested spermatogenesis, again regardless of age, there seems to be an increased incidence of chromosomal abnormalities." Note the comment stating that arrested spermatogenesis results in increased chromosomal abnormalities states that this is the case regardless of age. What is arrested spermatogenesis? "A rare genetic disorder resulting in infertility." (http://www.wrongdiag...rrest/intro.htm). For a more specific definition, see http://en.wikipedia....genesis_arrest.

That said, here's another report: http://www.sciencedi...archtype=a#toc5

Among other things, this reports states "Although numerical chromosomal abnormalities of spermatozoa are not higher in aging males, an increase in structural aberrations can be observed. Consequently, children of elderly fathers show a 20% higher risk for autosomal dominant diseases, presumably due to increasing numbers of germ cell meioses and mitoses."

Now, reading stats can be tricky sometimes. Note that the quote says "20% higher risk." It does not say "20% of the children of elderly fathers are defective." I'm having some trouble determining what the "default rate" for autosomal dominant diseases might be in the general population of children. So for the sake of argument here, let's assume the rate to be maybe 0.2 percent, across all children..What does a "20% higher risk" mean, in this hypothetical? That the rate for children of elderly fathers goes from 0.2% to 0.24%. That is, in this hypothetical, it increases by four hundredths of one percent.

All in all, seems like pretty good odds. Might it be possible that the alcohol and drugs ingested by some fathers as they spend the night with various bar girls could pose a greater risk for a defective child that would the father's age?

Given your situationn, perhaps what you meant to say is that there is a high rate of chromosomal damage in the sperm of men who have had vasectomies, and that one should google for "chromosomal damage vasectomy." And indeed, the results for this search contain a great many affirmations of that. Here's one: http://www.rxpgnews....4515_4515.shtml

But so very many of these sorts of stories seem poorly written. This one, for example, says ""The rate of abnormality was about 10 times higher than the aneuploidy and diploidy rate in normal fertile men." OK, so what is the rate in "normal fertile men?" That is, "10 times higher" than what? The article doesn't say. Nor does this particular variation of the article say that the the quality of sperm improves over time after a vasectomy reversal (other reports do indicate such).

In sum, there are many, many reasons NOT to father a child at all, these days. The quality of sperm in older fathers does not appear to be among those reasons, however.

Edited April 24, 2011 by RedQualia

[Tanaka]

You are all youngsters. I had my first child (she's now 16 months old) at 58 years old (wife was then 35). Always wanted one but my first wife (married for over 30 years and together for 20 of those) did not for medical reasons.

My daughter is wonderful, my wife is a great mother and it's fantastic to have the time, money and energy to see her grow up in a secure and comfortable environment.

I have no problems if you think that is too old or disgusting or whatever. Thankfully there is no law against it and I plan on sticking around for a lot longer than the average western male (let alone Thai male) does in a relationship.

I am sure you don't have any problems with having a child at your age. And I am also sure that your young daughter gives your male ego a boost. But have you even for a minute thought about how she will feel when she grows up? And when she is in her teens and talking with her friends and they ask about her dad and she says he is over 70. What do you think the reaction will be? And how will you feel when you realize that she does not want you to come with her to the market, shoppingmall or whereever? It is nice that you plan to stick around with your family, most western men do. But it is not up to just you, is it? I hope for your daughters's sake that she will have a good life.

[MTS1978]

Its really a case-by-case type thing really, and there are two scenarios:

1. Planned.

2. Unplanned.

If we are talking about an older bloke, in a long term relationship (be it with a Thai or farang lady), then I think about 50 is the upper limit that one should "plan" to have a child - but ideally, 40 or less. My reasoning for this is as follows: my "life plan" is to be finished "fathering" children by the age of 35. I figure this on the basis that when they are say 15, I will be 50 and still youthful enough to enjoy "activities"...... by the time they are 25 I will be 60..... by 35 I will be 70...... and God willing at those respective ages, I wll still be youthful enough to enjoy any grandchildren that might come on the scene. Moreover, as I muture - retire in my professional life I will be well positioned to financially support them through their education and young adulthood. I am in my early 30's, while my father is in his mid 60's - to be honest, he is past is sell by date and would not be capable on magaing a 15yr old child, much less supporting them financially...... that being said, I know some 65 year guys that would be well capable of it...... hence why I say "case by case".

Conversely, if we are talking about some old geezer who is knocking around Pattaya or similar and suddenly decides it would be a good idea to get his 20 something Mrs. knocked up...... well that's just stupid and irresponsible.

Unplanned - well it is just that, and all a bloke can do is his best to atone for his "mistake" - whether he's 25 or 65....... the older the bloke, the less excusable, because he should bloody well know better.......

Notwithstanding the above - if someone is "planning" to have a child later in life, then really there are many factors to consider. I mean be realistic about it..... and the man-woman relationship is important to consider. In my view, if you are in (say) your 50-60's and you've picked up a girl in a bar in her 20's and suddenly your in love married and planning babies, then really you have to ask yourself will your lady-love be hanging around in 10 years when your in your 60-70's and shes in her "prime"...... however the same 50-60's bloke (assuming good health and a young outlook on life) with an early-to-mid 30's wife, in a long term relationship, and is in a good financial position..... then it is a bit selfish for the guy to deny the lady her chance to be a mother.

Just my thoughts......

Edited April 24, 2011 by MTS1978

[woodyleonhard]

...there emerged new research which shows--not suggests--that old guy's sperm is VERY likely to produce kids with chromosome damage.

According to available research...a significant number of those same kids will develop schizophrenia and other disesas...long after Paw has croaked. In their late teens. And maybe only the wife is available to handle the dreadful results.

The evidence is available to anyone who cares to Google "chromasome abnormalities in elderly men's sperm.'

I had my first child at age 37, second at age 58, and am considering having a third child at age 60. I'm well aware of the dangers of IVF when implanting more than one embryo (e.g., http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/health/11fertility.html), and an as-yet-unproven tiny, tiny increased chance of birth defects with IVF (e.g., http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/17/health/17ivf.html), but hadn't heard anything about long-term problems with visibly healthy sperm from older men.

Like RedQualia, I Googled "chromosome abnormalities in elderly men's sperm" and here's what I found...

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/7/1826.full: "The results suggest that men of advanced age (over age 60) still wanting to become fathers do not have a significantly higher risk of procreating offspring with chromosomal abnormalities compared with younger men."

http://jmg.bmj.com/content/39/10/e63.extract: "The paternal contribution to aneuploidy is low and the possible relationship between paternal age (under age 71) and trisomy has been the subject of controversy... cases with proven paternal origin have been rarely reported."

And so on...

Sakaew, do you have ANY evidence to support your claim?

Certainly, having a child at age 60 is different from having a child at age 38, or at age 21. But I see no physiological reason why someone who's willing and capable to be a good parent should pass up the chance.

P.S. My (Thai) wife and I celebrate our tenth anniversary this weekend. :jap:

Edited April 24, 2011 by woodyleonhard

[woodyleonhard]

I am sure you don't have any problems with having a child at your age. And I am also sure that your young daughter gives your male ego a boost. But have you even for a minute thought about how she will feel when she grows up? And when she is in her teens and talking with her friends and they ask about her dad and she says he is over 70. What do you think the reaction will be? And how will you feel when you realize that she does not want you to come with her to the market, shoppingmall or whereever? It is nice that you plan to stick around with your family, most western men do. But it is not up to just you, is it? I hope for your daughters's sake that she will have a good life.

Wow. I hear the same arguments against having mixed-race children in the US. "And when she is in her teens and talking with her friends and they ask about her dad and she says he's Black (or Asian or Hispanic or French or Inuit or Vegan or Jewish or...), what do you think the reaction will be?"

Pure prejudiced garbage. If her friends can't accept a teen's father who's different - younger, older, different race, different sex, disabled, a genius, a pauper, a celebrity, a politician - then to h*ll with the so-called friends. She's better off without them.

Edited April 24, 2011 by woodyleonhard

[DP25]

And how will you feel when you realize that she does not want you to come with her to the market, shoppingmall or whereever?

I imagine he'll feel exactly like every other parent of a teenager

Edited April 24, 2011 by DP25

[Seewolf]

You are all youngsters. I had my first child (she's now 16 months old) at 58 years old (wife was then 35). Always wanted one but my first wife (married for over 30 years and together for 20 of those) did not for medical reasons.

My daughter is wonderful, my wife is a great mother and it's fantastic to have the time, money and energy to see her grow up in a secure and comfortable environment.

I have no problems if you think that is too old or disgusting or whatever. Thankfully there is no law against it and I plan on sticking around for a lot longer than the average western male (let alone Thai male) does in a relationship.

I fully agree with you , my first daugther (with my Thaiwife) is 17months old and the last Babygirl 2 weeks old now and my age is 57 . I feel very confortable to have more time and money now and in a couple of years while retired to spend this time with the 2 Girls which will be fantastic.

[woodyleonhard]

I imagine he'll feel exactly like every other parent of a teenager

Rod Stewart just had his eighth child. He's 66 years old. His seventh child was born two years ago.

[Tonto21]

Lots of <deleted> spoken here. You could be twenty, father a kid and get run over by a bus , kid still has to get through life and it WILL. Talk about molly coddle. A century ago in the UK it was shit, didn't stop a kid being born, in fact my mum had car tyre tread nailed on her shoes again and again, shot up by the gerry's and STILL had 3 kids and eventually had a good job in UK government. Sheeeesh. LIFE GOES ON who ever mum and dad is, and how ever old they are.

You have to be so careful with tire treads, I know a guy, who knew this bloke who did the shoe and tire thing, got it all wrong, he had a cross-ply on the left and a radial on the right, tragic really he lost control running for a bus in the wet, he was in hospital for a bit. You mum was lucky!

[IanForbes]

Are we talking about Thailand here or middle income North America? I see a LOT of Thai grand mothers looking after Thai children while the mother is off somewhere earning a living for the whole family. As much as I feel that childern need the influence of a good man, I'd hazard a guess that many children in Thailand grow up without a father's influence. They seem to survive okay. A hundred years ago in the UK the wealthy families sent their children off to boarding school and when they were home for the holidays a nanny looked after them. There are some similarities with the wealthy today.

[Alex8]

Lots of <deleted> spoken here. You could be twenty, father a kid and get run over by a bus , kid still has to get through life and it WILL. Talk about molly coddle. A century ago in the UK it was shit, didn't stop a kid being born, in fact my mum had car tyre tread nailed on her shoes again and again, shot up by the gerry's and STILL had 3 kids and eventually had a good job in UK government. Sheeeesh. LIFE GOES ON who ever mum and dad is, and how ever old they are.

you forgot to mention your 12 mile walk to school in the snow, but perhaps that is another blessing in disguise.

You may jest but yes, we did. Life went on. In the first world war young male lives were wiped out BUT life went on, nature has it's way.

If man was supposed to stop recreating when young then nature WOULD have it's say, but it doesn't, if you can recreate what ever your years then do it.

Recreate. Naturally. Repopulate the world so they may relive and regenerate more wars for their future off-spring.

I feel I must interject here even though I haven't yet finished reading all pages. Nobody thus far has mentioned the medically recorded fact that with increasing parental age the possibility of Downe's syndrome increases. Downe's kids are wonderful and just as loving as others but they usually meet an early death.

Male fertility is decreasing across the globe (environmental contamination) giving rise to damaged chromasomes amongst the aged.

I am 77 years old with a much younger wife. She occasionally expresses the wish to have another child. I have to very gentley explain to her that it's not a good idea for the two reasons I have mentioned above and those that other contributors have posted ahead of me.

[mstribling]

Keep knocking them out until your in the grave

[sirineou]

To become a Father all you require is viable sperm, so I guess any age.

But to become a Dad among other things, you require energy ,and time.

so I would say Old enough to have the energy, and remaining years in your life to see your children in to adulthood.

[tangcoral]

More importantly, I wonder what the percentage of 50+ yrs planned to have a baby.

Having a 50+ yrs old dad would suck.

Average life expectany speaking, it would be unfair for the kid to have a dad pass away before he graduates high school.

I'm enjoying the time of my life watching my kids play with their grandma and grandpa and I would be able to do the same once my kid has kids..

[slapout]

Prior to the pill, snipping the tubes, vasectomies and whatever it was not uncommon for the sap to rise in the springtime and a couple would have a miracle late in life. Went to school with a few of kids whose fathers were late 70's when we were 16 of so. If the parents feel its time for another child and they can enjoy creating life , power to them.

One of the near 80 year old fathers, told a inquisitive/snoopy town gossip one time, when asked if he was finished producing children? (he had 15 kids) He said "maybe, but only if some jealous man gets me first"

[tangcoral]

I am sure you don't have any problems with having a child at your age. And I am also sure that your young daughter gives your male ego a boost. But have you even for a minute thought about how she will feel when she grows up? And when she is in her teens and talking with her friends and they ask about her dad and she says he is over 70. What do you think the reaction will be? And how will you feel when you realize that she does not want you to come with her to the market, shoppingmall or whereever? It is nice that you plan to stick around with your family, most western men do. But it is not up to just you, is it? I hope for your daughters's sake that she will have a good life.

Wow. I hear the same arguments against having mixed-race children in the US. "And when she is in her teens and talking with her friends and they ask about her dad and she says he's Black (or Asian or Hispanic or French or Inuit or Vegan or Jewish or...), what do you think the reaction will be?"

Pure prejudiced garbage. If her friends can't accept a teen's father who's different - younger, older, different race, different sex, disabled, a genius, a pauper, a celebrity, a politician - then to h*ll with the so-called friends. She's better off without them.

True but how many "teens" will you find that will accept all of the above without conditions? No way an avg. teen be able to accept all of the above so easily or comprehend the differences to themselves.

[BangrakBob]

Lots of <deleted> spoken here. You could be twenty, father a kid and get run over by a bus , kid still has to get through life and it WILL. Talk about molly coddle. A century ago in the UK it was shit, didn't stop a kid being born, in fact my mum had car tyre tread nailed on her shoes again and again, shot up by the gerry's and STILL had 3 kids and eventually had a good job in UK government. Sheeeesh. LIFE GOES ON who ever mum and dad is, and how ever old they are.

You have to be so careful with tire treads, I know a guy, who knew this bloke who did the shoe and tire thing, got it all wrong, he had a cross-ply on the left and a radial on the right, tragic really he lost control running for a bus in the wet, he was in hospital for a bit. You mum was lucky!

Its like mixing sweets with savouries....you just don't do it

[astral]

Agreed absolute maximum of 50

Agreed.

Grandchildren are fine, as they can be handed back to the parents when you are tired out.

[mstribling]

I think 70 is about right.

[IanForbes]

Logistically, I would agree that 50 years old is around the maximum for a man planning on having a child, but there are many conflicting circumstances. Nobody knows when they are going to pass on. Some guy at 50 might have only another year or two to live before he dies of a heart attack. Another man of 70 might live to be over 90. Which one is older when it comes to raising a family? Most of us hope to make it into our eighties before we pass on. Anything beyond 80 is a bonus. I'm 71 and know I don't have that many years left. My parents both lived to their mid 80s, but I have an uncle who died in his 60s. I've burried far too many of my friends who were younger men than me.

I think we all hope to be around to see our children grow up, but nothing is written in stone. As much as I like children I sure wouldn't want to start raising them again on a permanent basis. However, numerous studies have shown that 75% of the important things a child learns happens in the first 6 years. After that it is just a case of moulding them in the right direction. Love, discipline and consistency are the 3 ingredients to start a child on the right path. Give a child a sense of self importance and independence, along with empathy for others, and you are well underway in helping a child's future. Maybe the "old man" doesn't live to see his child grow up, but he might have laid the ground rules for the child becoming a responsible adult.

[RedQualia]

I think 70 is about right.

After several (?) heart attacks, Larry King (news show kinda guy back in the states) married some young babe as wife number 7 three days before undergoing heart surgery, and had two kids with her when he was like 143 years old (actually born in 1933). First kid was born in 1999, second in 2000. I saw the other day that he's saying he's ready to retire now. For what that's worth.

Oh, and a follow up comment concerning whether gals found in Pattaya would be good wives/mothers. I don't know, of course! But I do have a friend back in the states who married a 500 Baht per kinda gal found on the beach in Pattaya and they were doing just fine in the USA, last time I saw them. And another friend (Brit) married a gal who is an ex-prostitute (brothel type) and they have a kid now. She actually seems like quite the upstanding woman at this point. So it would certainly =appear= possible to find a gal (possibly several) in "that line of work" who would be good wives. Again, for what that's worth.

And a last FWIW -- I'm 58 years old, and wife is 43. Sometimes, making another kid feels like the right thing to do. Emphasis on "feels." With just a bit of actual, real thinking, it just doesn't seem like the right thing to do. Last I checked, there were so many people in the world that there just wasn't enough to feed them all anymore, or at least, that the cost of food was rising rapidly and excessively, in part as a result of the damned fictional global warming crap. And world population will double again when, exactly? Not at all clear that the world's going to remain sabai sabai over the next 50 years or so. No... Just doesn't seem like more children are required.

Too, I had a vasectomy 30 years ago after fathering three. I figured that was enough back then. Quality of sperm might improve 3-5 years after a vas reversal, but not at all sure it would go back to 100%. Best not to be spreading iffy sperm around the provinces, me thinks. No more kids for me.

[coolhandjoe]

My comment's might not sit well with many members, however free speech and all that...

To have a child over the age of 40 is irresponsible and selfish, no matter how healthy or wealthy you are.

Children need both parents with energy and intelligence and a love.

As for Pattaya, enough said.

:jap:

[cdnvic]

Comments on moderation and replies quoting it removed.