Why Don'T Thais Have Forward Thinking?

[Heng]

I love how these threads often end up as 'the sum total of western civilization vs. the Thais.'

You can almost sense that it's an extension of the feeling of helplessness of 'all of my Thai inlaws vs. me all by my lonesome 10,000 miles from home.'

[IanForbes]

I love how these threads often end up as 'the sum total of western civilization vs. the Thais.'

You can almost sense that it's an extension of the feeling of helplessness of 'all of my Thai inlaws vs. me all by my lonesome 10,000 miles from home.'

I think what happens is some western people have made mistakes in understanding the culture and the Thai people, and they try to warn others not to repeat the mistakes that westerners make. Then, everyone gets defensive justifying their position. For example, I might warn someone that driving or riding a motorcycle in Thailand is not like driving in North America, and to be extremely careful at the oddities that happen on a regular basis. Westerners will say it's wrong even though it seems to work in Thailand. Then, someone will accuse me of being negative towards Thais in general... and it will all go downhill after that..

[fletchsmile]

Everyone is a genius at something. The problems start when people want to measure the ability of fish to climb trees. Thais + forward thinking = Fish + tree climbing. Same same but different

Edited May 4, 2011 by fletchsmile

[nocturn]

With the respect to the original question, it's an old observation in sociology that how much a person expects to be able to control the future reflects how much money and power he has. Here in the US wealthy families hire tax planners to set up generation-skipping trusts to optimize estate-planning for the next few generations. Middle-class Americans don't do that, but most of them plan for retirement by selecting jobs with pensions, funding 401k plans, etc. By contrast poor people may have future plans limited to paying the rent for the next few months.

My expectation is that the degree to which Thai people plan for the future would fall out along the same lines: poor people very little, while rich people much more.

No need to appeal to racial theories or simplistic notions of the ease of agriculture in a tropical country.

remarkably well said. thank you.

it is difficult to plan for your future when you may be going hungry today.

[prk888]

one of many interesting threads currently running with lots of feisty, healthy 'interaction' but why, when i refer to our champion omniscient poster as a pompous ass (twice) for continuing, pompous pontification on all and every topics my posts are removed from view? Why?

[cardholder]

one of many interesting threads currently running with lots of feisty, healthy 'interaction' but why, when i refer to our champion omniscient poster as a pompous ass (twice) for continuing, pompous pontification on all and every topics my posts are removed from view? Why?

Which one are you referring to ?

[SantiSuk]

Maybe I just know the wrong Thais

Maybe. Maybe you should stop stereotyping about 65 million people based on your limited experiences. Sounds like the people you live with just aren't that bright.

Absolutely. We hang around with the thick end of society here in Thailand (myself included, though my undereducated wife is very smart in many ways that constantly surprise and endear me) and then expect them to be like us international travellers. When I was working for an international firm in Bangkok the young Thais we had working for us were every bit as capable as Europeans in the mental capacity department.

[zzaa09]

one of many interesting threads currently running with lots of feisty, healthy 'interaction' but why, when i refer to our champion omniscient poster as a pompous ass (twice) for continuing, pompous pontification on all and every topics my posts are removed from view? Why?

Might this be a rhetorical query?

[zzaa09]

Absolutely. We hang around with the thick end of society here in Thailand (myself included, though my undereducated wife is very smart in many ways that constantly surprise and endear me) and then expect them to be like us international travellers. When I was working for an international firm in Bangkok the young Thais we had working for us were every bit as capable as Europeans in the mental capacity department.

Must be in the rain water that they take from daily.....

[Willeyeam]

You could ask the same sort of question like "Why do snails not read books?"

Edited May 5, 2011 by Willeyeam

[Willeyeam]

With the respect to the original question, it's an old observation in sociology that how much a person expects to be able to control the future reflects how much money and power he has. Here in the US wealthy families hire tax planners to set up generation-skipping trusts to optimize estate-planning for the next few generations. Middle-class Americans don't do that, but most of them plan for retirement by selecting jobs with pensions, funding 401k plans, etc. By contrast poor people may have future plans limited to paying the rent for the next few months.

My expectation is that the degree to which Thai people plan for the future would fall out along the same lines: poor people very little, while rich people much more.

No need to appeal to racial theories or simplistic notions of the ease of agriculture in a tropical country.

remarkably well said. thank you.

it is difficult to plan for your future when you may be going hungry today.

Well, if it is only about money.....how about WHY DON'T THEY LOOK LEFT OR RIGHT WHEN PULLING OUT OF A JUNCTION ON A HONDA 125 WITH NO HELMET AND FOUR KIDS ON THE BIKE, WHEN A 30 TON TRUCK IS BEARING DOWN ON THEM!

That has nothing to do with 401K and wealth - it is down to lack of education, being stupid or somewhere in between!

[Semper]

one of many interesting threads currently running with lots of feisty, healthy 'interaction' but why, when i refer to our champion omniscient poster as a pompous ass (twice) for continuing, pompous pontification on all and every topics my posts are removed from view? Why?

Ask The xxxxxxxxx. It's an trial and error thing. In the end you will lose.

[happydaze]

Thank you for that story.

I thought it was just me getting upset of small details with my thai wife.

The smallest job can turn into an all day project..

you made me laugh.. thanks

[Heng]

With the respect to the original question, it's an old observation in sociology that how much a person expects to be able to control the future reflects how much money and power he has. Here in the US wealthy families hire tax planners to set up generation-skipping trusts to optimize estate-planning for the next few generations. Middle-class Americans don't do that, but most of them plan for retirement by selecting jobs with pensions, funding 401k plans, etc. By contrast poor people may have future plans limited to paying the rent for the next few months.

My expectation is that the degree to which Thai people plan for the future would fall out along the same lines: poor people very little, while rich people much more.

No need to appeal to racial theories or simplistic notions of the ease of agriculture in a tropical country.

remarkably well said. thank you.

it is difficult to plan for your future when you may be going hungry today.

Well, if it is only about money.....how about WHY DON'T THEY LOOK LEFT OR RIGHT WHEN PULLING OUT OF A JUNCTION ON A HONDA 125 WITH NO HELMET AND FOUR KIDS ON THE BIKE, WHEN A 30 TON TRUCK IS BEARING DOWN ON THEM!

That has nothing to do with 401K and wealth - it is down to lack of education, being stupid or somewhere in between!

Actually it does... the mindset of the 'lowers' is a limited in terms of time/event horizon (or however one wants to refer to it). And of course it's all relative. Some folks might be thinking about whether to build phase 3 of the condo complex they have been building or to start a brand new development in a new locations... others are worrying about paying their rent on their condo, others are thinking about how many more buckets of concrete they'll need to pour before they can have lunch,....

The 'moron' bus drivers, song taew drivers, motorcycle taxis, etc. are all thinking about their next meal, drink, etc. or something related to their lack of wealth (which typically comes from their lack of ability to plan, in an endless downward spiral) such as.... is their car, truck, or bike about to fall apart because of lack of maintenance (that they can't afford)? are they almost out of gas (because wow, it burns so fast and is so pang!)? wow, I haven't had anything to eat all day besides this bottle of M-150..., etc.

[phanu]

There is no Thai word for planning ......... that says it all!

i dont belive that

Just a few examples......

การคุมกำเนิด

gaan kum gam-nèrtfamily planningการวางแผนครอบครัว

gaan waang-păen krôp krua<LI>city planningการวางผังเมือง

gaan waang păng meuang<LI>strategic planningการวางแผนกลยุทธ์

gaan-waang-pà-nàek-lá-yút<LI>tax planningการวางแผนภาษี

gaan waang păen paa-sĕe<LI>family-planning serviceบริการวางแผนครอบครัว

bor-rí-gaan waang-păen krôp krua<LI>strategic planningการวางแผนเชิงกลยุทธ์

gaan waang păen cherng gon-lá-yút<LI>site planningการวางผังบริเวณ

gaan waang păng bor-rí-wayn<LI>environmental planningการวางแผนสิ่งแวดล้อม

gaan waang păen sìng wâet lóm<LI>family planning programmeแผนงานวางแผนครอบครัว

păen ngaan waang-păen krôp krua<LI>family planning statusสถานภาพการวางแผนครอบครัว

sà-tăan pâap gaan waang-păen krôp-krua<LI>family-planning educationการศึกษาการวางแผนครอบครัว

gaan sèuk-săa gaan waang-păen krôp-krua<LI>Environmental planningการวางแผนระบบสิ่งแวดล้อม

gaan waang păen rá-bòp sìng wâet lóm<LI>retirement planningการวางแผนการเกษียณ

gaan waang-păen gaan gà-sĭan<LI>human resource planningการวางแผนทรัพยากรมนุษย์

Yes, that's thai words...

But I'm 200% sure that 99% of Thai don't understand the meaning !!!

Edited May 6, 2011 by phanu

[trogers]

There are numerous opportunities in shortcomings. That is why I can live and work in Thailand for over 20 years. So why the bickering?

[Heng]

I think part of it comes from the inability to excel despite the extraordinary number of local opportunities. Kinda of like living in the Wild West with 'better/modern day' intellect and ability but not being able to handle the dust. The end result is frustration.

[dumball]

'Heng' timestamp='1304678201' post='4405233']

I think part of it comes from the inability to excel despite the extraordinary number of local opportunities. Kinda of like living in the Wild West with 'better/modern day' intellect and ability but not being able to handle the dust. The end result is frustration.

i think this is the best analogy of the thread , simply put , simply understood .

Old adage " You cannot make a silk purse out of a pigs ear "

When opportunity knocks , open the door .

I watch so many times when their phone rings , they just stand there looking at it , ' Answer the bloody thing "

[inthepink]

it is because Thais never had to store food, supplies and wood for the winter, so planning is not part of their culture.

It's the same reason why a lot of Thais don't have a problem wasting food either. I've seen Thai families order a bunch of food and then over half of it winds up in the bin. It's not just Thais that do this but a lot of SE Asians in general have this sort of mentality. Scarcity and waste just have different meanings here.

Same, same but different. When I lived in an Issan village. I saw the same cooked food come out from under the insect cover day after day until it was eaten. Didn't make any difference if it was bought from outside, went in plastic and taken home.

jb1

What you're saying doesn't actually contradict my point. It's feast or famine a lot of times. Thais definitely have the propensity to spend themselves into insolvency when they have some extra cash on hand to the point where it's time to go on a diet of mama and coke for the next couple months. Even middle class Thais exhibit this sort of behavior. If you look on the road a lot of those cars are probably purchased on credit with steep interest rates involved.

I see this comment a lot on Internet forums and it doesn't make any sense to me. If you look at new cars on the road in the UK that are privately owned I'd be willing to bet that the majority of them were purchased on finance. Or are you suggesting that Thai people only do it at unattractive interest rates whereas Westerners always get a good deal?

I'd think that the proliferation of pay day loan sites with APRs in the thousands would suggest that there are plenty of stupid people in the UK who cannot plan.

[inthepink]

That word does not mean "to plan", but simply to implement something (whether a policy, plan, etc.).

The Thai expression "wang phaen" is the direct translation of "to plan" -- with "phaen" coming from the English "plan". It is not originally a Thai word.

Is that what you're going on about, the etymology of Thai words? Way to split hairs.

I guess the English don't have a word for "to plan" either as it is French in origin.

And FYI, only around 25% of modern English words are Germanic in origin, with only a fraction of those being English words. The rest are taken from other languages. So it's okay if the English do it but not Thais. Right.

It means, silly willy, that until recently there was no way to express "to plan" in the Thai language. They had to import an English word, which means it is a very recent addition. That's all.

Words borrowed into English are mostly hundreds of years old, from when the English lexicon was forming.

Can you refer us to a book or website that confirms your assertion? Thanks

[zzaa09]

I think part of it comes from the inability to excel despite the extraordinary number of local opportunities. Kinda of like living in the Wild West with 'better/modern day' intellect and ability but not being able to handle the dust. The end result is frustration.

Yes....dust. But then, if it's raining the dust becomes mud. Even more frustrating for the vast majority.

[zzaa09]

I see this comment a lot on Internet forums and it doesn't make any sense to me. If you look at new cars on the road in the UK that are privately owned I'd be willing to bet that the majority of them were purchased on finance. Or are you suggesting that Thai people only do it at unattractive interest rates whereas Westerners always get a good deal?

I'd think that the proliferation of pay day loan sites with APRs in the thousands would suggest that there are plenty of stupid people in the UK who cannot plan.

These qualities can be witnessed the world over within those select growing consumer cultures with a high density motored vehicle rate. The ability, not to be able to pay cash straight up for your brand new motored vehicle would not be limited to Thailand or the UK.....99% of respected populations don't have the available money on hand to gathered those "needed" expenditures. View the car-ridden societies. What are the chances that an overwhelming percentage are purchasing the said vehicle on time? This is not a Thai disease....if fact, the delusional ideals of credit, loans, financing is an usurped and introduced one. Today's world population....? I can imagine that an unhealthy percentage of these catatonics live under the credit dome that they've been pressured to pursue. They mindset of living beyond ones means is cycled and perplexing. Yes, the all encompassing forward thinking {of fancy}.

Edited May 6, 2011 by zzaa09

[thaifkrlim]

I see this comment a lot on Internet forums and it doesn't make any sense to me. If you look at new cars on the road in the UK that are privately owned I'd be willing to bet that the majority of them were purchased on finance. Or are you suggesting that Thai people only do it at unattractive interest rates whereas Westerners always get a good deal?

I'd think that the proliferation of pay day loan sites with APRs in the thousands would suggest that there are plenty of stupid people in the UK who cannot plan.

Indeed

[KeyserSoze01]

When I was working for an international firm in Bangkok the young Thais we had working for us were every bit as capable as Europeans in the mental capacity department.

Really, I didn't realize that Europeans were that thick. :jap:

If you remove cultural & educational backgrounds of people around the world, you will find that there are smart & stupid people everywhere. Thailand has more than their share of ignorant people of any culture than I have found anywhere else in the developed world. Common sense will carry a person far in this world, but without a suitable education, intellect goes to waste.

When you ask a Thai a direct question and get the "deer in the headlight" non-response. You can almost see the smoke coming out of their ears while trying to formulate a response. Doesn't matter if it's a food stall vendor or the VP of Operations for a multi-national corp. I've gotten the same blank stare from all of them.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

I've gotten the same blank stare from all of them.

I have the worst blank stare ever. When my mind has gone blank, trying to cobble together the few Thai words I know, in order to say something that isn't gibberish.

I haven't seen that blank stare, in a fluent English-speaker. And I don't think I'll be doing it, in 30-40 years, when I am fluent in Thai.

Might just be a language thing, is what I think...of course, lying is no cakewalk against an alert customer in your own language. 60-70 years, before I'll be able to lie convincingly, in Thai.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

It means that wealth and development don't mean happiness.

And in the end, what is more importance than happiness?

Being able to ensure your offspring are protected from exploitation; educated in ways that facilitate critical thought rather than rote crash memorise and dump (dumping isn't always...ill-advised, of course), fed, housed, clothed, etc.

When I see happy people, who do not do these things, it does not inspire me with thoughts that are all that...happy. You can be a happy-go-lucky person, but if you have a 13 year old daughter working, you might deserve to be introduced to La Guillotine. If you have two who are working, you almost certainly have missed your appointment with her sweet blade.

The Philippines have one of the highest "happiness" ratings on the planet. But then, those indexes aren't accurate. 3 year olds in slums aren't polled effectively, etc.

Google "learned helplessness". It is totally applicable to the average Thai. (and to most Europeans, say, 400 years ago.)

I agree. Except I think you're ~400 years off, in your estimation. The entire world has fallen victim to learned helplessness. This is because they are good learners. With very, very good instructors.

[surayu]

it is because Thais never had to store food, supplies and wood for the winter, so planning is not part of their culture.

[samran]

Me thinks if the majority of the posters on this thread were around 170 years ago, they'd be making their living as racial theorists, finding reasons why slavery was right and why Carte Blanche extermination of the 'natives' was totally justified.

All backed up by nutbag theories of racial superiority.

Either that, or they'd be traveling salesman.

[zzaa09]

When you ask a Thai a direct question and get the "deer in the headlight" non-response. You can almost see the smoke coming out of their ears while trying to formulate a response. Doesn't matter if it's a food stall vendor or the VP of Operations for a multi-national corp. I've gotten the same blank stare from all of them.

What language are you using for your queries?

[zzaa09]

Me thinks if the majority of the posters on this thread were around 170 years ago, they'd be making their living as racial theorists, finding reasons why slavery was right and why Carte Blanche extermination of the 'natives' was totally justified.

All backed up by nutbag theories of racial superiority.

Either that, or they'd be traveling salesman.

Character models really haven't changed that much in 170 years, have they?